I've always said I don't like forced feminization stories, such as what a certain other story site is full of.
But I was rereading one of my favorite stories, Barbie Lee's "Almost a Girl", which is pretty clearly about forcing someone against their will to present and live as the opposite gender, and I asked myself why that didn't bother me. And I realized that what bothers me about the usual feminization stories is that they're about humiliating and abusing someone, or at least treating them as a thing to be used for the perpetrator's pleasure or benefit. But in this story, it's pretty obvious that Elliot and Judy are not humiliating Buddy; Elliot over and over shows himself to be Buddy's protector. They're simply making him do things he really, really doesn't want to do.
I have two children and was a child once, myself. Parenting frequently involves making your child do things they don't want to do. I hated getting immunizations or blood tests or anything that involved sticking something into me. I still do. And although my parents explained why I had to do it anyway, and I understood why, I still didn't want to. Now I'm a grown-up, and it's me that's making me, but I still hate it as much as Buddy hated having to dress up as a girl. It's a necessary part of parenting, and it's one of the harder parts, because you are overriding your child's judgement with your own, and if you're wrong and your child is harmed by it, you know that you have harmed your child. Sometimes the choices are easy, and sometimes they're hard. And sometimes you realize that you've blown it.
So I think that, for me, the difference is that what's in most of the forced feminization stories is domination and abuse, wherease what Elliot and Judy did (with, as it turns out, the agreement of Buddy's parents) was done out of love. Not the moon-June-ferris-wheels kind of love, but the kind of love that earnestly and maturely and disinterestedly seeks what's best for the one you love, even at a cost to yourself. I'm sure Elliot did not enjoy the anger and hurt that Buddy displayed towards him, but he thought the benefit to Buddy would make it worth it. In the story, of course, he was proven right -- because it was a story, and it's what so many of us wish had been done for (not to) us.
This reminds me of the issue of ConsentTM that I see discussed around the blogosphere. The whole "yes means yes" and "no means no" and "absence of 'yes' means no" business. It's all very well and good when both parties are on an equal footing and are in a position to judge their own needs and interests rationally. But when two people are emotionally entangled (as they should be in a close relationship), or one is under a lot of stress, you have to also consider what is best for the other person. Sometimes people say "yes" or "no" because they feel they have no choice. Atul Gowande in one of his essays tells of a patient who refused a life-saving treatment out of fear and stress of being sick to the point of dying. Sometimes you have to ignore what someone says and do what you know (or believe) is best for them. But you also have to realize how dangerous this can be, how easy it is to imagine that what you'd like to happen is also best for the other person, even when it isn't. As they say, "first of all, do no harm."
Comments
there is one situation where no response means yes
if someone is not responding and you suspect they need medical attention the lack of response is legal consent to give first aid.
I agree though, 'forced femme' is not something I like reading, for much the same reasons.
I have read some stories where the submissive male was forcibly feminized that I did enjoy. These stories shared one thing, he consented to the whole change before it even began.
Stupidity is a capital offense. A summary not indictable.
Dawnfyre... there would be one caveat to that....
If the patient was in a medical facility and had a signed DNR (do not resuscitate) order on file.
Although I suspect you're talking about something outside a controlled environment, some type of accident and you're the first person on scene. In that case you are absolutely correct.
Forced to be who you are not.
It is very common for human cultures to force those in that culture to be who the leaders want them to be. Most religious groups force their members to one extent to another, and that is where I am most familiar with it. In my own experience, Amish families force their children to certain things to one extent or another. In Evangelical groups it still happens but is more subtle. Muslim men and women are badgered into certain cultural "norms" and my own experience with that led to my first two stories.
Those whose gender drives do not fit into the Judeo Christian binary are either forced or rejected. And, finally in the Psych community, those who fall under their "gentle" ministrations are often later completely bewildered by the results of their council.
In the harsh light of consequences, it is now very clear to me that I needed a divorce and to leave my religious denominaton, not a gender change that was facilitated by abusive use of mind altering psychotropic prescription medications, and distorted council I was subjected to by staff who in retrospect were and are more troubled than I was. The disconcerting part of all this is that I was a very effeminate man who came across as a Tom Boy Female who some others often thought was simply gay.
It is why if asked, I never recommend that anyone embark upon the SRS journey because I now believe that if possible they are better off simply writing stories and having a rich fantasy life.
Interesting observation is...
In most of the major religion versions - (listed in alphabetical order) buddhism, christianism, Judaism, Hinduism, Muslim - transgenderism or crossdressing are mentioned in one way or another.
(Some flavors of Buddhism are most interesting as they prohibit monks or nuns from having sex not just with males or females, but also mention people of undefined or indescirnable gender. As well as separately mentioning prostitutes as ones who do not care about gender or sexuality of the customer...)
Which leads to my point - in some way crossdressing and transgenderism were always present in human population. So forcing a binary gender divide in any culture or religion by itself means that there always are people on whom genger divide have to be forced!
Consent
I've not read the story you mention, I suspect the tags put me off. I have to say, judging just by your comments, that I wouldn't care for it either. For me, the old "it's for your own good" line just doesn't cut it. Civilization has rules for existing, some of the rules I may not like and I break them. But that is the key here: I decide. Not family not work, not strangers, and most certainly not any form of religion.
The good intentions guiding the friends to help push a person out of their comfort zone, is not a reason and definitely not an excuse, to meddle in their lives. They say the road to hell is paved with good intentions, and I agree. Whatever else anyone may say, I am the master of my own personal ship and the direction it goes is solely my decision. If it is a bad decision and my friends tell me they think it is a mistake I'll listen to them. But in the end I make the choices.
So that is why I personally don't care for all the forced changes such stories tell. Even those changes are coming from people that love and care about that person are wrong for me. I know such stories are the bread and butter for many writers and readers, I just can't get past the forced part.
So anyway, that is how I feel. To each his or her own preferences, I'm not looking to change anybody's mind.
I went outside once. The graphics weren' that great.
Forced or coerced
So many of us grow up with prejudices about all kinds of things, superiority of one race over another, or one gender over another, or hetero sex rather than homosexual sex. As we get to adulthood, some make up their own minds about such things whilst others simply copy their parents indoctrination. But I believe one of the most deeply ingrained prejudices is over TG issues, about being indoctrinated that a person can only be the gender they were born with.
We don't know how many people are TG because so many deny they have such feelings. They have been told since an early age that such feelings are perversions so they are unable to follow their inner feelings.
Many of the stories I write are about people being coerced into crossing a barrier that one part of them wants to cross, whilst the other part believes it is very wrong. I suppose you could call it forced but I don't feel it is. My borderline is whether you use physical force or mental pressure. With the latter, they can always say No.
It is fiction, after all
I enjoy murder mysteries but it doesn't mean I partake in and enjoy murder. Forced Fem stories are published for your enjoyment so if you don't enjoy them then don't read them, and please don't attack them just because they are not to your taste.
What I think is much more disturbing are the number of stories on this site which contain bullying, not because I read them (which I don't) but for the affect it must have on the authors. Many of us were bullied at school - it was certainly hell at the time - but the majority of us have got over it and rarely, if ever, think about it nowadays.
Clearly, there are many people on this site who keep picking at the sore, keeping the horror alive by continually refreshing and reliving the experience. My advice, get over it. Give up writing (and reading) bullying stories. They are far more damaging to you than any Forced Fem story.
Spend your life having fun rather than reliving hell.
the way i see it is that i
the way i see it is that i can appreciate an author's talent but maybe not the subject matter. I can also enjoy some of their stories and not others. I'm sure i've written things that have revolted others, which is fair enough. We are all triggered by different things, and we all have different personalities. Having harsh criticism for a story doesn't necessarily mean that you have harsh criticism for the other in question. Many times i have told the author that i was turned off by their content but I could see they had absolutely exceptional skill in writing. I have watched some authors too for potential stories that I may like.
A Couple of Fuzzy (Furry?) Thoughts.
Well, as someone who has written a few stories that get plonked into the Forced Femme Category, I have some ideas on this subject.
Let me preface this by saying that my first experience writing was BDSM, mainly Female Dominant erotica. Mostly, I wrote romance stories that had heavy BD and D/s overtones. I started by 'finishing a book' (surprise) that was a romance, but the author would 'fade to black' at key points only to address the aftermaths of the scenes. I 'explored' the 'missing scenes' on my own and many of those vignettes became parts of my own later stories. However, as my writing evolved, I began thinking of it as (and it is referred to on my website) as Loving D/s, or Loving Dominance and Submission. In my world, that requires informed consent, or in other words, the maturity to make the commitment either as the top (in charge of the scene and the bottom's safety) or as the bottom (working with the Top and also taking responsibility to communicate with the top).
Okay, so on the issue of yes means yes, no means no, etc. In the world of BDSM play, one of the negotiations is for a stop word or phrase - something that means NO STOP, because in the course of play, sometimes the bottom wants to yell and scream and beg for mercy within the roles they are playing. In real scenes, you will often see the dominant lean over to look at the submissive and ask "do you remember your safe word?" Or "What color are you?" and the sub will answer green, yellow or red or some other code. If the dominant doesn't get the 'right' answer, the dominant will stop and figure out what is wrong. In the real world D/s community a person who ignores codes or safety precautions gets shunned and is ostracized from the group. But if you are reading 'good' D/s erotica, you might hear a lot of 'no's' and 'mercy, please' and earns the dominant's best maniacal laugh in answer.
"Forced" Femme is a common subgenre of BD or D/s storytelling. It is also common in the stuff that gets a lot of SIBC ratings over on FM because once the writer pounds out his/her transformation, there's no point and no story. It falls into the category of a fantasy that works in the dark alone, but the reality would be criminal.
That leaves Aunt Jane. Which is sorta the parent making the kid do what she/he doesn't want for their own good deal you mentioned above. I've had more than a few online disagreements on Jane's methods and her stories. Mostly, I see Jane as a drill instructor at a bootcamp. a Kid joins the Marine Corps and shows up for Basic. Someone starts yelling at him - do this, don't do that, stand here, etc. They take away their clothes and give them what they are allowed to wear. They mess up their hair (high and tight for the guys, well above the collar for gals), and they harshly critique how they wear their new finery. They even take away the recruit's identity. Until they graduate from boot camp, they refer to themselves in the third person, calling themselves "this recruit' when they have to speak or respond to one of their instructors. Why? Because the Marines believe that to become a Marine, you have to start from the most basic level and build the Marine brick by brick, lesson by lesson. The habits of civilian life will get the recruit and other Marines killed in combat, so the goal of the training experience is to strip that away and start anew. And there is consent, the form of the enlistment contract, for this training.
Jane does the same. Okay, the uniforms are different and the (heh) haircuts and the marching lessons are different - even the camouflage paint is different, but her goals are similar. The behaviors and habits a student have are leading to a bad end. She has consent, usually from parents or guardians, sometimes from a court official. The student is not informed, but as a minor, parental or official consent covers her. Unless she screws up.
Bottom line, take this story type for what it is worth and trust or don't trust the author you're reading. In my case, any story that doesn't have a HEA ending doesn't get off my hard drive. Lots of those lately, unfortunately, but even my published almost-hardcore BDSM erotica (ex Protecting the Mistress, Dom Games, Partnering), love, commitment HEA wins out in the end. It is just some folks think a well warmed hind-end means love. They do kinda look like a red valentine heart if you think about it.
warm furry hugs
Tiggs
There is a very big difference between Boot Camp and...
Forced Femme. The biggest difference I can see right off is the matter of CONSENT.
Yes, any boot camp, Army, Navy, Marine (not sure about the Air Force) will do a lot of things to break down the individuality of a person, make the person do a whole lot of things "they don't want to do", and remake them into the person and personality that is minimally acceptable to the Service. But each and every one of them gave CONSENT when they raised their right hand and were given the oath of enlistment.
In a forced fem story, that consent is not there. That's why it's called FORCED. Degradation/humiliation is a completely separate story element. Even in a D/s relationship CONSENT is there before anything starts.
If consent is not present, sex is not sex, its rape. If consent is not present, a riding crop or a paddle isn't a pleasure toy, it's an instrument of abuse and criminal assault. If consent is not present, then ropes and hard restraints are not scene tools, but false imprisonment and 20 years in a state prison.
In any sort of FORCED/Non-con scene, the actor is nothing but a thug, a bully, beating on a weaker victim. A criminal.
story types
"Forced" Femme is a common subgenre of BD or D/s storytelling. It is also common in the stuff that gets a lot of SIBC ratings over on FM because once the writer pounds out his/her transformation, there's no point and no story.
That is the crux of the matter for me. I see the change as almost secondary to the story. Some of the most popular stories are popular because they engage the reader. Cathy, Simon, Jem/Angel, Kim, Brooklyn, the other Erin, the list is fairly big but all these characters have one thing in common, they engage the reader on a personal level. I read about Angel and I want to say something to her. Something supportive, a bit of advice. In the same story I think, no I know Brooklyn and Kim are people I know and want to know better.
I only mention this story because I've been rereading it. There are other equally deserving stories on BC, more than I could count. The B/D/S/M stories have failed on that level. I just can't connect with the main character(s).
But anyway, those are my personal feelings on the subject. I'm not trying to change anyone to my beliefs, and I'm not saying the B/D/S/M don't deserve their place in the BC stories. Everybody has their beliefs on what constitutes a good story. With the BC and FM story-sites there is enough of any kind of story to keep a reader occupied for a long while. Diversity is good, and it's a plant we need to nurture. All my best to everyone.
“When a clown moves into a palace, he doesn’t become a king. The palace becomes a circus.” - Turkish Proverb
What everybody decided to not mention is...
How many of us at some stage had a hope that some evil person or shady government agency will come and make us be girls... And yes, this course of fantasy is often a sign of the lack of the determination to actually do something to actually appear as a girl in public or to actually change ones life (and, sometimes, body).
It is just one of the ways of dealing with the guilt. "It was not my idea. I was forced. (And no one have to know that I enjoyed every moment of it)" - is a basic design of about 80% of forced fem stories i've seen so far.
Another 20% are just plain kinky, sometimes perverted, porn. Those stories are not designed to pleasure your aesthetic feelings. Their main goal is to make you come as fast as possible by using as many "trigger" words per page as they can squeeze without making it look like FORTRAN code....
Those stories remind me of some strange "action" book I've encountered once which had at least one personalized murder per page with 5 to 1000 unnamed victims per page. On every page of 120 page paperback.
My personal high "Euww" factor stories are described by "diapers" tag... It is OK to read about "stinky" as a part of a story where protagonist is babysitting. But... I just have no idea what kind of childhood trauma can make a grown person to get aroused by crapping in their pants?...
And yes, I read fast. And usually I am able to read or at least look through most of the dayly postings here and on the site that should be not mentioned ;-)
(And still I have to reread Tucker, Being Christina Chase, Daily Dormouse, Reluctant series and some other stories to fill up the time...)