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..... by any other name would smell as sweet."
But would it? Did The Bard get it wrong? Or did Juliet rather, for it would be a cardinal sin to ascribe to a writer the sentiments uttered by a character.
Randalynn included in her typically generous comment on 'The Old Alhambra' the thought, "none of the characters have a name, just a role they play in the unfolding drama. The result is an element of distance that leaves all of us us both enmeshed in the tale and yet far enough away from the story to wonder what the mystery is, and where events will take us." Now it is true that the characters are not named and that such was deliberate, but I had not thought it through with as much insight as Randalynn.
But her comment got me thinking about the question of names and their importance, and how perhaps the answer to Juliet's rhetorical "What's in a name?" should perhaps be "A lot." (The more literary minded critics here will have perhaps by now discerned why Shakespeare is not really challenged by my deathless prose.)
I take great care in the selection of names. I try to fit them to characters or use them as indicators of character's social and/or educational standing.
I found de Messembry on a 13th century tombstone in a ruined Northumbrian abbey. Agonised at length before fitting Grace to it. And I always referred to her in full as Grace de Messembry. David, Anne, Emma were easy simple names. Those in authority at Helgarren were more unusual, distant.
My favourite name is in a short story, not yet posted. Joanna Pennydugs for an old, well established, witch who has but a couple of mentions. This was a reverse process in that the name came to me in the nearest I will ever get to a flash of inspiration and I have since spent some time in tryong to analyse why it works. I have finally worked out that it has the same resonance as Jemima Puddleduck whilst my character is about as distant as possible from that delightful soul.
It was in that same story that I also discovered, by pure chance, the advantages of not giving names to characters. At least not until it served the writer's purpose. There the plot demanded it but nevertheless I realised that it was information that could be given at the writer's choosing and for effect. That the timing of it's disclosure is a useful weapon. This is exploited in 'The Old Alhambra'
I just wondered what others think.
Have I just become obsessive and possibly mad, or are names with all their magnificent diversity and nuance a delight widely shared?
Hugs,
Fleurie
Comments
Character names
Fleurie,
I read with interest your blog and found it most heart warming. I read a number of stories on FM where the stories and characters all differed, but the names were always the same. Since they were not related - i.e., the stories did not, as far as I could gather, form any kind of a serial, the same names always popping up was to be honest, quite disconcerting.
Luke Skywalker from Star Wars was first named Starkiller. Thankfully George Lucas saw the error in judgement and Skywalker became the name we all know - at least I presume so.
It is the character with which we identify, not necessarily the name of said character. I think it depends upon the story itself.
I also wonder why characters in so many TG tales seem to have names that can readily be changed from the masculine to the feminine (since male to female seems to be the predominant change that appears in the stories written here and elsewhere) without much trouble, like Mike to Michelle or Brian to Brianna, Alexander to Alexandra and yet from what I have seen, most of the people who frequent this and other sites of its ilk, have names that do not reflect in any way, their birth names.
Why then is it so in their prose?
It's not that I want answers, but it further expands the principals of your blog I think.
Lady E
interesting
I had a name, with some meaning and thought...even a bit of history and family weight. Now I have another and the only similarity is an ethnic tie and the S of the family name. I won't bore you with how I came up with it.
I often have a story wander in and roll about, but the thing that makes it coalesce is giving the people a name. That name has to fit who they are and where they come from. I sat the other night to try and do one in response to a blog, a slice of life thing from some years back. But the names, initially I needed just two, but that took some thought and name site reffing and a general, yeah that feels ok. Simply I could not advance until I knew who they were. I could perhaps use the real ones, but that is possibly rude. So...
It is also true that not having a name provides a more basic drawing of the character, actions rather than person. Not sure I had really thought about this as such, but there ya go.
Kristina
Names are pretty important to me
I don't agonize over them, and I do sometimes choose badly, but I try.
And I'm not poetic like you, but I do want the name to *sound* well. I always try them out loud before giving them to a character.
I go for more common names usually. I consult lists of popular baby names for the year in which the character was born, and lists of common surnames.
And I steal names from historical characters (like Grace Gifford) and old books.
I remember both liking and hating the names in Pilgrim's Progress — names like Gobble Greedyguts and Worldly Wise — but I always liked Dicken's names for his characters. In spite of their commonness, they were unique, and sounded just like the character that held them.
And I spent a good bit of time choosing the name Kaleigh Way. It's as Irish as the name I was born with.
It isn't the Irish in me.
Oddly enough Kaleigh, the inspiration for Fleurie was Flurry, a character in 'Some experiences of an Irish RM' by Somerville and Ross. No reason beyond that I liked the sound of it and that it worked well when matched with a French spelling which changed its gender.
And it occurs to me that I could use it in its original form for other writing when this particular well runs dry.
And talking of running dry the only Irish in my blood comes from the Jameson, Bushmill and Paddy heritage. As far as I know anyway. Though I have kissed the Blarney stone but that was a long time ago and it gave me nothing but vertigo.
Hugs,
The Irish RM
That was a fun book, wasn't it? I remember a scene in which a man was sewn inside a mattress for some reason...
In my haphazard way
I primarily choose names for the way they sound, but try to keep them within the bounds of what you might call 'normal'. Sometimes I pick a name for an association with an historical or literary character, for example 'Verity' in 'Midnight Angels I chose because it sounded like 'Unity' for Unity Mitford because she had hobnobbed with the upper echelons of the Nazi party in the pre-war period. I wanted a 'typically English' sounding surname, but not common-or-garden. I turned to my record collection for inspiration, skipped over 'Barber' as too common, and 'Bax' for sounding foreign, before reaching an 'Arthur Bliss' CD. I have kicked myself on several occasions for using it as 'Verity Bliss' is such a good name, a central character's name not a supporting player.
Another source of surnames are street names. My bus passes 'Portacre Street' every evening and it's been incorporated into a story I'm working on, for an aritocratic (though possibly arriviste) family; it features a brother and sister, with forenames chosen to match the period's tastes, so 'Victor' and 'Ophelia' (who does not resemble the frail creature of Shakespeare's creation, or Milais's). The chief protagonist of the story is 'Nathan Sharp', which seemed to suit a prebyterian Scot of firm convictions, and is shortened to 'Natty Sharp' when he becomes a press photographer (Lord Northcliffe of the Daily Mail - who features in the stories - wasn't above giving his staff entirely new names for a snappy bylines). Nathan's feminine alter ego must then have a similar name, so 'Beatrix 'Trixie' Smart').
See also my blog entry on spending too much time planning stories :)
Naming Rights
As a lover of rules I try to follow a few when I use a name.
I try not to name more than one main character something that starts with the same letter as supposedly this confuses readers. Foe example, if one character is already named Jennifer I try to avoid a Julie or a Judy.
I use the following site to pick names.
http://www.ssa.gov/OACT/babynames/
If the character is about forty years old I will go to a list of the most popular names for 1968 and pick something from the first 25 or so. This will lend authenticity to the character in a subtle way.
Names can be overtly descriptive. Amelia and I used the name Rich for the spoiled, wealthy boy in "Peaches." We also had the girls consistently refer to him as Richie and the guys call him Rich. As our hero made her transition she switched from calling him Rich at the beginning to Richie further along in the story. The how-to books suggest that you shouldn't use different names for the same character as this also confuses the readers. A Jeopardy question yesterday reminded me of the many different names Dustin Hoffman had as Little Big Man (Jack Crabb, Soda Pop Kid, etc.). Rules are obviously made to be broken.
In one of my stories, "Real Life Test", I purposely did not name the main character -- to add to her character's overall feeling of despair and isolation.
Dickens is the master at picking names. If he were writing today he would be ripped by critics for being trite or cliche -- but it certainly worked.
I think the most important rules with names is to have fun. Think of how much fun the writers of The Simpson's have and go from there.
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
Names
I like to use this tool, which I think uses that same census data.
In general, I think I have more trouble with last names than first names. I accidentally gave two of my protagonists the same last name: Steven Brooks (from Stephanie's Deal) and Craig Brooks (from Ready? Okay!), possibly subconsciously using a variation on my own name. I've tried flipping through phone books to get names, but I end up just picking an initial and brainstorming. It seems like there should be something like a baby name guide only for surnames.
Speaking of names, when I wrote my twisted story Revenge is Snowy White, since I decided that "Sleeping Beauty" would call her enemy "Snow White," I named most of the characters after others from Disney cartoons. My favorite was turning the Little Mermaid into Ari Wassermann, the owner of Triton Watercraft.
Well... I'll put my consulting hat on...
I've done software development and business consulting for (well, let's not go into how many years... They've mounted faster than I'd like to think). There, choosing the RIGHT name for some concept is crucial to maximizing the use of that thing (be it a program, a variable or a concept.). Take the various spreadsheet programs. VisiCalc (the first) let you visually set up your equations on a grid that accountants would be comfortable with. Lotus 1-2-3 added more functionality, and was "easy as 1-2-3". Borland came out with Quatro Pro - the name including a reference to 1-2-3 in that Quatro = 4, and they wanted folks to see it as an improvement (it was). Microsoft had (has) the winner (big gorilla it is) of the Spreadsheet wars. You can Excel with Excel you know.
So, yes. A name is important. There are many times I've thought that giving children "use names" when infants and then a "real" name later once their personality develops made a lot of sense! A name CAN shape how a person acts to some extent. (Think back to the song by Johnny Cash - A Boy Named Sue...) We took into account whether our children's initials could be pronounced when comming up with names. We carefully didn't come up with a boy name where the initials spelled a girl's name... We knew kids (having been young once, even though our children have difficulty conceiving of this) would latch onto such things atd teas them mercelessly.
I think about names for characters. I try to avoid really unusual ones for most, and I like to have them flow together to some extent. Do I go to your extent. No, not for MOST characters and I don't think I'll start. I'll eliminate/change a name that doesn't work.
My 2 cents... And we all know how little that's worth these days.
Annette
Names
For example: in Dear Diary, Courtney's math teacher is June Stoneriver -- the instructor I had in high school upon which the character is based is Jane Claybrook.
Edeyn Hannah Blackeney
a little confusion sometimes helps
there was a lovely touch in this week's 'Doctor Who' where a character was introduced as 'Dave' and corrected the speaker with 'actually I'm 'other-Dave'... Dave the pilot was first' - added a little extra reality to the characters, and contributed to a poignant scene later on (hope that's not a spoiler for anyone who hasn't seen it yet).
a surfeit of Davids is always a problem in Wales, in my village there are several David Joneses who are thus known as David Jones, Dai Jones, Davey Jones, Dai Bach Jones (he's the short one) and Dai Bath Jones (he attended Bath University)... we also had David Davies, Dai Davies and Dai Twice. Alan the Fruit is so named for his grocers shop, and to avoid confusion with the other Alan Jones, not for any lifestyle choices he may have made.
Daves I Know
A skit from comedy troop that used to be quite popular in Canada delves into the issues of Daves.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8b-N28eG2go
Bucking the Trend
I do not place much significance on my character's names, when compared with others who have responded. At best I try to minimize the usage of starting letters, while trying to find a name that sounds right for the character's station. In fact it is not unusual for me to sound out syllables and concatenate the results. My thoughts on the matter is that most characters will have been named by some fictional parent, who likely would not pick a name that would match the person to which the name is attached.
However, for eke or nick names I am more likely just to go with blunt descriptive names.
Sound and sense
That's all there is to names. Does it sound right? Does any sense the name conveys aid or hinder the story? Neutral names are better in most cases but a name-sense that subtly aids the story is a plus. Bold names are usually for allegory and satire.
C.S. Lewis named the hero of his Silent Planet series Ransom, with forethought for the meaning. That's a bold use of a name for a Christ-figure.
In my own 30 Million Reasons, Keith's family nickname of Kit and its mutation to Kitten is more subtle but still fairly obvious. It was work to make such a name believable. The name works because of the genre I'm writing in. I spent about two hours picking Ed's name for that story, it had to have just the right flavor of strength and respect.
I just read a book by Lee Child, a suspense novel. He sometimes picks names based on other writers and their characters to suggest a flavor for his characters. He always changes the names a bit--like Andrea Norton for a medical scientist. (Mary Andre Norton wrote science fiction and nurse romance stories in the fifties.) Sometimes his choice of names amounts to clues or foreshadowings. While Andrea Norton looked like a suspect in the story, you couldn't quite believe it because of her name. This helped convey the character's doubts, too.
Picking names for characters is an art. Romance novelists get very arty with names, digging up unusual ones from old books or just making them up. Names for SF can be in the allegory and satire categories fairly frequently. "Roy Batty" for the crazy leader of the Replicants in Blade Runner. "Decker" for a violent man who takes big risks is more subtle.
Comic books are rife with appropriate names. "Tony Stark" for Iron Man. "Ben Grimm" for the Thing. "Clark Kent" is a gem of a name, so subtle you almost don't see the implications--of course, the name is now out of it's time frame. "Bruce Wayne" is another carefully crafted name, meant to suggest money, strength and borderline sanity. :)
Hugs,
Erin
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
Call me blonde
It never occurred to me to look for any significance in names like Clark Kent, etc. Most of the names used in my stores are either a tip of the hat to somebody, or something I picked 'cause I liked the sound. Never realized I was supposed to put so much into reading or writing a story. Not sure it's worth that kind of effort. I read something because I enjoy it.
Sheesh!
KJT
"Life is not measured by the breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.”
George Carlin
Naming
Names are important. I try to keep the character names distinct enough to make it easy on the reader, and also to create a set of interesting names that more or less fit the characters. Sometimes, I like to have fun with them: I made a couple of villains Jezzi Belladonna and Tyrone Malefic, and a doctor who performed surgery on my main character, Dr. Hackworth. It's not normally recommended outside of a deliberate comedy, but I couldn't resist. :)
Bottom line: like anything else, whatever interferes with the story is bad, whatever contributes to it is good.
Aardvark
"Quickly, bring me a beaker of wine, so that I may wet my mind and say something clever." ~Aristophanes
"Before I came here I was confused about this subject. Having listened to your lecture I am still confused, but on a higher level." - Enrico Fermi
"I just don't want to be hampered by my own limitations."
Barbra Streisand
"I have to march because my mother could not have an abortion!"
unknown
"Happiness is when what you think, what you say, and what you do are in harmony."
Mahatma Gandhi
"Happiness is when what you think, what you say, and what you do are in harmony."
Mahatma Gandhi
Comments on both parts
The characters in the two stories I've posted here, came from those of people I’ve met online, and were used with their permission.
In my still unpublished stories, some of the names have a significance to me, but would mean nothing to anyone else without explanation.
But, I have tried to keep the names of characters in my stories significantly different to avoid confusion for the readers.
As far as my own name:
Holly Logan = Holly Lightner Gibbons Logan. The second name is that of a Heroic Vietnam era corpsman I met by accid4ent, who was denied the Congressional Medal of Honor because certain members of Congress felt he was a coward - i.e. as Amish, be refused the draft as a conscientious objector, even though he then volunteered to enlist as a corpsman.
The third name is that of the grandmother of my closest friend from 6th grade to senior year, who was trying to help him after he was mistakenly ( in my opinion ), diagnosed as 'Queer" by the same pshrink who misdiagnosed me 2 years earlier. Mike suicided after his family outed him and threw him out.
The last name is that of my best friend in the Navy.
I also used it for the main character in a novel I have been working on for a long, long time, long before I knew anything but that I was not a guy, but not Gay.Holly H hart =
I decided to use Holly Happy Hart as my transition name, when Maggie the Kitten, who had been calling me Holly Happy Heart for a long time, spelled it that was in her TGIF, posted here.
Now, as to why I picked the common thread, 'Holly'? I have no idea. That was the name I used 57 years ago, when I told my parents I was a girl, named Holly. in 1951, that went over like the proverbial lead balloon.
I agree with the idea of trying to keep names dissimilar enough to avoid confusion, but don't go overboard. I have 3 pairs of 2nd cousins with identical names, because they were named after the same relatives. Even though my parents got my name all wrong, at least they were careful not to try and impress my elder relatives my naming them after them ( My mom knew what that was all about. She was named after both of her grandmothers, both named Mary. When she started school, she absolutely ignored anyone, at home or school who called her by anything but her middle name, and at age 21, changed it. So you never know. Maybe you will need to use similar names once in a while.
It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice.
Holly