Anyone who has spent any length of time talking to me already knows this, but just so it's stated... I'm a video game geek. Not like some casual "yeah I play on occasion" or "I like X series but not much else," but a dyed in the wool, I-can-name-you-the-processor-chip-from-every-console-ever-made kind of obsessed gaming geek.
Okay, so my early '80's pre-crash console knowledge is a little sketchy at points; the point is made. I love Mario, and Sonic, and Gran Turismo and Final Fantasy and Baldur's Gate and DOOM and I've owned more games in my lifetime than a lot of people have had hot showers. Computer, console, it doesn't matter, any genre or control scheme or style, I've tried them all, and can see value in them all.
Almost.
All that said, there's one part of gaming fandom that I've tried, over and over, to get into, under the skin of, to UNDERSTAND, for years, and that's the seeming obsession/love almost everyone has for the Grand Theft Auto series.
I've played the Game Boy Color versions, the Game Boy Advance iterations, the PC and the PS2 and the Xbox 360 and now, because a friend gave it to me, the PS3. I've given every game since the very first one, including the PSP titles, at least a shot, because it has to be ME that's wrong, right? It has to be something I'm missing, something integral to the games that makes everyone love them so. Maybe if I try one more, spend another hour or at least another 15 minutes (the most time I can usually stand to give one at once,) I'll finally *get it.*
No more.
I just don't understand. The games don't control well. They're not masterworks of writing or tests of skill or anything I can fathom enjoying. They're nonstop cursing, racial and homophobic slurs, violence against innocents and crime. What... where... is the fun? Where is any sense of this being anything other than a mean-spirited murder and evil simulator? At least Saints Row has a sense of humor, and treats sexism as something to be played around with and undermined rather than embraced, and cursing as something used to poke fun at its own insipid dialogue rather than the be-all and end-all of narrative. GTA just has... GTA.
I'll probably spend another hour with GTA V. I owe my friend, who gave me the game in hopes I could share the enjoyment he has had with it, at least that much. But everything I've seen and heard has told me this is the same filth I saw in San Andreas, and in GTA III, and in Vice City and GTA IV and every other game in the series with nothing, NOTHING, to give it any kind of value with the possible exception of the technical prowess of the engine.
So, if you know, then please: tell me, what am I missing? Show me, what is it people love so much? Explain to me, why? And how? And just...
I'm gonna go lie down for a while and hope my disappointment in the human race subsides a bit.
Games like these... games like these are the reason gamers as a whole are seen as immature sociopaths, and why games as art is such a ridiculed concept. I know it has to be ME that's wrong here, ME that's missing something, ME that needs to grow up and expand my understanding... but I just don't see how.
Melanie E.
Comments
It isn't you ... it's the game
As a true game-geek you will wish to max the score. But to do well in a game, you must internalize the relationships and values of the game's objects. Games whose objects are inconsistent with your own should not be internalized lest the process change you in ways you would not want ... specifically to defile yourself.
To satisfy your "obligation" to your friend, play it to evaluate those objects, not to max any scores. Then toss it on the ash heap.
Sara
Between the wrinkles, the orthopedic shoes, and nine decades of gravity, it is really hard to be alluring. My icon, you ask? It is the last picture I allowed to escape the camera ... back before most BC authors were born.
I've never been one for score
Nor do I often bother to finish games: I enjoy experiencing what they offer, but I view games as something to enjoy, not something to conquer, so once I stop having fun with one -- whether that's fifteen minutes in or fifteen hours -- I'll simply stop playing it, completion or even seeing the ending be damned. I treat movies, music, even books the same way: if I can't enjoy the experience, then there has to be something else, something far more tangible than a 'thank you' screen, to drive me to finish it.
I calculated it once, and of the circa 3k games I've played in my life -- roughly -- I've beaten less than 300, and as far as 100% completing them I've only done maybe 4 or 5. Even some of my favorite games of all time I've only ever seen the ending of by watching friends play or watching playthroughs online, but despite all this I still consider myself a hardcore gamer at heart due to the sheer amount of time I dedicate to the hobby as a whole.
The GTA games are some of the only games I've ever devoted time to where the experience was so incredibly off-putting right off the bat I didn't really even want to start most of them. Even Postal doesn't bother me as bad, and that game's literally a murder simulator. Rock Star are many things, but I can't think of a single game they've worked on that I really enjoyed -- not even Red Dead Redemption, which in an unbiased world I'd have to admit is probably one of the greatest games ever developed from a narrative and design perspective. I respect their decision to take such an uncommon angle on game design and narrative... but I still feel that it's a direction that games could have afforded not to have taken, and yes I do feel like a hypocrite and a prude for saying that.
Melanie E.
There's nothing wrong with
There's nothing wrong with you if you dislike the GTA games. I personally love them, largely for the gameplay factor (I've always been a sucker for open world games) but I can see how the story can be off-putting. I actually couldn't finish GTA4, it was that- for want of a better word- boring, though I did finish GTA5 twice, mainly as it is much more off-beat than GTA4 (but still very 'adult'. Probably more so, in fact). I can easily see how it's not to everyone's tastes, though.
One thing I will say- though you've probably worked this out for yourself- do NOT play GTA Online unless you want to lose all faith in humanity.
Debs xxxx
I know I'm not the target demographic,
and that DOES potentially hurt my ability to enjoy the games too....
I grew up with the idea that, when I play a game, I should treat it as though the avatar I play is an extension of me. This always guides my choices when it comes to the way I'll play games: the characters I'll choose, the paths I'll take, and so on. I've never played an evil campaign in a game, or chosen to see what the dark side options really are, simply because I have this... block, against doing as a digital character something I wouldn't be willing to do if I were in the same situation.
There are games that do well in drawing you/me out of that type of mindset, but they tend to be few and far between. The Destroy All Humans games, by placing you in the role of an invading alien and, more importantly, building the world into such a parody of '50's paranoia, did this, as do simple arcade titles like Rampage, wherein the idea is that your character is decidedly inhuman. Heck, Saints Row exists in a world where murder makes for the most popular game show on air, people idolize gangbangers to the point of giving them their own breakfast cereals, and actors research film roles by literally joining in bank heists; it's ridiculousness personified. But, if a game is supposed to be even mildly realistic or based around the idea of people and how they treat each other, it all goes out the window. I can find a way to embrace a military role by empathizing with the ideals of the side I'm supposed to be fighting for, or an explorative role by imagining the thrill of discovery, but to put myself in the mind of an indiscriminate killer with no reason other than greed or malice? It's the same reason I love monster movies but can't stand psycho killer films: to embrace the idea of the inhuman is one thing, but to juxtaposition that mindset onto a normal person is loathsome to me.
I love open world games myself. I'll play massive amounts of Skyrim, Fallout, and procedurally generated games galore. But I can't ignore the characters I'm forced to play as for that exploration, and every time they open their mouth/s to spew something more vile and uncomfortable than the last line I'm forced to face those very portions of humanity I'd just as soon avoid.
Melanie E.
You should definitely check
You should definitely check out Undertale if you haven't already, its morality system sounds like the sort of thing that'd be right up your alley. :-)
I definitely get where you're coming from, though. Whilst I do find something cathartic about going on the occasional rampage in gaming, a lot of the time, if I'm forced to commit an atrocity that makes me feel decidedly uncomfortable, it colours my opinion of the entire game. I deliberately skipped 'that' mission in Modern Warfare 2 as a result (and haven't played a CoD game since), and I would definitely recommend you don't return to GTA5 as there's a mission about 10-12 hours in that really has no business belonging in any game, even one as violent as GTA.
Debs xxxx
I've looked into Undertale
and at the end of the day, while I like the concept, I've got a stack of JRPGs a mile long already in my backlog -- including some with TG themes, surprisingly enough -- and the fact that the evil and neutral campaigns even exist in the first place, while admirable, kind of puzzles me in the way they're implemented.
What can I say, I'm weird :P
Actually, when it comes to RPGs I've recently become a fan of the Falcom offerings -- the Ys series, Trails in the Sky, and so on. Well-designed, colorful games with interesting characters and usually with a gameplay twist that makes them unique compared to other games in the genre. Highly recommended.
Melanie E.
You're making an assumption
You're making an assumption (a wrong one) that because so many people like a particular game that if you don't something is wrong with you. The truth is that everyone is different and everyone has their own unique likes and dislikes. While there are many similarities between people we are all different in various ways.
I have been a video/arcade game addict for over 3 decades and played hundreds of different games. I have played GTA, but I don't like it. The game just doesn't suit me and some things about it (the racial and homophobic slurs for one) I find insulting. It sounds like you've already given the game a fair chance and now need to just make up your own mind about it. If you don't like it, so what, that doesn't hurt anyone. If your friend asks, just be honest with them, it's not a game you care for. If they are truly your friend, then they will continue to respect you and be glad for your honesty.
Have a great day.
Hugs,
Erin of Wis <3
My issue isn't so much that I don't like the games,
though it's true, I absolutely loathe everything about them. My issue is that, as someone who's usually empathetic and open-minded enough to be able to see what other people find attractive about something even if I don't care for it myself, I fail to see what, if any, attraction these games have.
The only thing that I can possibly imagine is that people just enjoy being evil bastards to one another without cause, and while that does fit with my general view of humanity, I know plenty of people I'd call good, decent sorts who throw that idea out the window. If you want exploration/open worlds there are plenty of games that offer that without relying on playing an outright murderer, or if you want to play through crimes even there are games that contextualize that so that you're more of an antihero, trying to make your character identifiable or likeable in some way. The GTA games, every one I've played, you're just a jerk who's out to screw others, and that's... sad.
Melanie E.
agreed
I like video games but I am terrible at them. I can agree with a lot of what you are saying as I feel the same way about Minecraft. I never understood the obsession with playing a game with no real point other than building things. At least with builder games like The Sims you have tasks to do but for Minecraft? Well the less I say the better.
Of course my views may be tainted by having to endure my niece and nephew argue for hours over building their designs then screaming at one another when one places a block where the other didn't want it...
I'm told STFU more times in a day than most people get told in a lifetime
As someone who grew up with Legos
I can sink hours upon hours into Minecraft, though I mostly play on a heavily modded server with my cousins: you just don't know what the game really IS until you've got ziplines, wingsuits, water wheels, and are having to figure out the engineering puzzles involved in fitting five different power systems and a computer network into a house designed to look like a mushroom with no visual networking.
I'm a slow player in most games. I meander, chew up the scenery, admire simple things and linger in the alcoves and corners while everyone else is dashing around madly just trying to reach the end. I'm the kind of gamer Minecraft was built for, though admittedly I'd rather play around with aesthetics in the game than really get into the super-hardcore engineering and power gen systems.
Melanie E.
Im with you on this
Been gaming since my mom bought us a Pong console...
Ever since i started playing Ultima Online back in the late 90's i've strayed away from consoles and have done almost purely PC gaming, and most of that is mmo's... because i love the big open worlds that are begging for exploring. Last 10 years or so though even mmo's have moved away from being open worlds, most now are theme parks, stand in line then ride the coster... get off and stand in line to ride the same ride again. (Im looking at you WoW and WoW clones :P ) I prefer games that dont really hold your hand, Like here's the world.. these are the rules the world functions under... go! play! have fun! Ultima Online, EvE, Star Wars Galaxies before SOE ruined it.
as for single player games, i've been a fan of the Elder Scrolls series since Daggerfall, my Steam is showing 900+ hours played on Skyrim and my number are starting to push up there in Fallout 4. So for an open world evnviroment like GTA, you'd think i'd be all over that..but then you'd be wrong. I despise that damn game and wish it would die already. It's perhaps the worst peice of filth in video gaming, i agree. But then i hate the whole "gangster" and "Rap" culture as well. Turn your damn hat around, pull up your damn pants and for the love of god if your going to shoot a gun hold it properly.... idiots.
I hate what rap's become,
though I do have a lot of respect for a lot of rappers from the eighties up into the mid-'90s, since not only did they have more respect for the music they sampled for beats and the like but they typically had some kind of message to their music, messages that have been misconstrued by later generations turning the expressions of pain and distaste for the lifestyle found in a lot of early "gangster" rap into a glorification of those same elements by modern "artists." Even with an appreciation for the music of that period, though, it's not a culture I've ever felt interested in diving into, and movies with similar themes to the GTA series I'll avoid like the plague, from Dead Presidents all the way to Don't Be a Menace.
I never got into MMOs, mostly due to growing up in a place where 28.8k was the fastest internet we could get until about '08, and by then the WOW school of MMOs was the norm. I also tend to be extremely weary of the false impression of freedom MMOs try and foster with their stat/level up systems, since I'm of the mind that, if you're only going to let 2 or 3 of potentially hundreds of combinations/values be viable, don't offer the hundreds of other values to begin with. Call it the DnD geek in me, but if I want to walk into battle with a warrior statted up to not wear armor and only use sticks, then gosh darn it there should be SOME way to make that work; don't let me put tons of points into Unarmored and Stick Bashin' only to tell me 120 hours into the game that my character is now worthless unless I give up all originality and make them a carbon copy of everyone else.
The Elder Scrolls games are wonderful, and I've got a good 100+ hours in every game since Morrowind. I didn't have a PC, at all, back when Daggerfall/Arena were relevant, but even they are neat, what I've played of them nowadays. Pity they couldn't bring that same breadth of character customization and open-ended exploration to the MMO.
Melanie E.
I'm a gamer
Or at least I used to be, too busy now for video games.
I also grew up in racing, drove dirt track for a time, then did some drag racing, (and may have participated in some illegal road racing) Now the funny part of this story is that I have never liked any video racing games, Love to drive and have driven the wheels of some cars but video driving is so unrealistic (even in simulators) that I have never been able to enjoy any of them.
We the willing, led by the unsure. Have been doing so much with so little for so long,
We are now qualified to do anything with nothing.
I'm the opposite
I quite enjoy racing games, especially the more sim-ish ones (Forza/Gran Turismo with all assists off, the new Dirt Rally,) but I hate driving in real life: it scares the bejeezus out of me, and strikes me as far too dangerous an activity to be so casually abused by the majority of people on the road.
Melanie E.
I grew up in a different world
Truly I did, a world where we were expected to hinder and harass those 'revenoorers' any time the chance became available. Getting a police car to chase you and then getting away brought on a hearty pat on the back and "Good job!" because if they were busy chasing you, they were not chasing the car hauling the moonshine.
Looking back to those days, was it dangerous and wrong? Definitely!
Was it fun and exciting to a teen boy? Oh hell yea!
We the willing, led by the unsure. Have been doing so much with so little for so long,
We are now qualified to do anything with nothing.
Same.
I don't and can't understand the love people have with the GTA games either. And I'm not quite as hardcore as you, but pretty hardcore. I must admit to being pretty much an RPG/Adventure only nut.
Abigail Drew.
Great genres to be a fan of.
Two of my favorites as well: Final Fantasy, Icewind Dale, Tomb Raider, Uncharted, even Pokemon :P
Melanie E.
not just you hun
maybe because of how i grew up, but a game based on a criminal activity, and not one like in a robin hood fashion, just doesnt appeal to me, i also tried a few iterations, but i usually preferred the more role playing games later on especially. i know lots of people love them, and thats fine, so long as it stays a game and nothing more but also with my experience with board gaming, i have had a few who COULDNT make that distinction after a while. one guy, only played with him once or twice at some public games, actually took a katana after someone, yelling they were a monster from the original version of AD&D's oriental adventures.
its like anything in life, all things in moderation, give and take in things to keep you even, etc.
Teresa L.
Games that abstract the concepts out
can be pretty fun, even when dealing with you playing a "bad" guy, but those games that succeed are the ones that don't make you FEEL like or THINK like you're the bad guy. A good example would be Morocco, a strategy game out right now that lets up to 4 players use different types of characters to try to do everything from escape prisons to pull off heists. The difference is, you can play roles that never involve hurting anyone, letting you treat the entire game as a stealth/strategy title, and because of the abstraction of the concept into this almost board-game aesthetic you have several extra layers between you and the concepts the gameplay is based on.
People who can't separate themselves from game characters scare me. My grasp on reality might be tenuous, but that's mostly because I find reality painful, not because my fantasies tend to bleed through into it in any meaningful way. That's actually a large reason I always play good characters in games: when the real world is already filled with enough evil and pain, why would I want to perpetuate that same kind of attitude in my escapist media?
Melanie E.
Blame Society
We have made so many things vanilla and politically correct, that something like this gives us the opportunity to be and do all of those things that we secretly feel without fear of censure.
In the 1970's we began to make social reforms that banned all expression that was outside the safe social and political guidelines that were being systematically altered on almost a daily basis.
We have created a universal Orwellian society that has tried to censor our innermost thoughts and feelings to manufacture a world that represses anything that fails to conform to current popular social values.
We have done it with words. We constantly change the meaning of words and whether a particular word or phrase is acceptable or not has to be judged based on who is speaking and who is being spoken to. It filters the word or phrase by each person's gender, race, orientation, religion, age, appearance, and a million other criteria.
Human beings are discriminatory. They require a "them" so they can have an "us". It is like the Dr. Seuss story, The Sneetches. Prejudice and discrimination are part of the genetic code for humankind. I am not Transgender, but I love this site. You say this is not a TG-related issue, but I beg to differ.
Fifty years ago it was commonly believed that sexual orientation, gender identity, artistic ability, athleticism, and hundreds of other personality traits were primarily "nurture over nature". If a woman identified as a male it was something that could be corrected or cured by a system of intense therapy and mental conditioning. Homosexuality was learned and had a root cause because nobody could be genetically predisposed to favor the same sex.
One of the many things we have learned by genetic and psychological research is that human beings are not vacuum tubes that we fill with information. Instead, we are born with a plethora of hard-wired skills, likes, dislikes, and emotional responses. We are then modified, and sometimes severely altered by the information that is poured into us.
In games like GTA, we have the opportunity to be as self-indulgent, bigoted, crude, heartless and evil as we want from behind a mask that promises us anonymity. We are told it is wrong to mindlessly hate others, but we see it all around us in society. We are told that we have the right to have anything we want, and have no obligation to sacrifice anything to gain it. We try to preach from the high ground of our situational ethics, as we indulge our deepest and darkest fantasies behind the mask of anonymity in chatrooms, video games, forums, blogs, and Twitter.
The one overriding principle that I see in these types of games, as well as in the 13-year-old students that I deal with on a daily basis, is a sense of entitlement.
"Whatever is not nailed down is mine. What I can pry loose is not nailed down."
That is becoming a standard philosophy for the young people that I deal with. Their parents almost universally support this idea in our parent conferences.
"We desperately need diversity in society."
We proclaim this philosophy again and again like a mantra.
Well, I hate to be the one to break it to the world, but being diverse and inclusive also means we need to welcome those who are not in lock-step with our society. That would include the raging homophobe, the religious zealot, the bigot, the racist, and the prejudiced. Banning their point of view from society will never remove it. You can never destroy an idea. You must persuade them to your own point of view by the power of own open and frank discussion points.
We live in a society in which we preach lofty values and goals while we consistently demonstrate our unwillingness to live up to those standards. Is it any wonder that young people, faced with this bizarre dichotomy, are willing to embrace violent philosophies that offer them paradise and/or immediate gratification?
waif
Be kind to those who are unkind, tolerant toward those who treat you with intolerance, loving to those who withhold their love, and always smile through the pains of life.
Eh, not so much
I disagree with your thesis. As someone who has to police the free expression that our society values in the interest of maintaining a civility in this space, I can tell you that there is NO lack of people who are willing to transgress norms.
There have always been societal forces working to keep people speaking and writing within bounds. It's the nature of social mechanics among humans to encourage a certain amount of conformity; also among apes, dogs, horses, lions, wolves, dolphins, elephants, cows, chickens, crows, parrots.... You get the idea.
Free speech and the free press and the protections that we give those concepts are unusual in history and in the world today. Go to Germany and write that a foreign head of state is a crook or that Hitler was misunderstood and Nazis were good fellows. Go to Canada and write a purely text story that includes vivid scenes of non-consensual sex with underage victims. Go to China and write or say any one of umpty-thumping-thousands of things that are forbidden or might be forbidden AFTER you say or publish them.
Complaining about a tendency toward increasing civility in public discourse gives me a pain in my delete finger. I have NOT seen a diminution of publicly expressed bigotry, racism or prejudice in my lifetime. Just the opposite. There's plenty of it right here and I remove it daily because this is a private place with a different sort of aim.
Almost anything in a story is okay here. In blogs or comments, eh, not so much. Because this place is about stories and I protect it for that reason.
As my friend Mark Evanier tweeted earlier today, "Opposing political correctness is getting to be too politically correct for me."
Hugs,
Erin
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
Can't agree more
There is never enough civility.
All what waif is talking about is due to imho the lack of abilities of most people to look beyond themselves when they run head long into the greater world with more people with ever more diverse point of views. That is the bane and the promise that is the internet. In those situations, ever more circumspection and soul searching should be the norm, not less.
A lot of people can't handle it and wind up in ghettos of only like minded people, never finding the time to understand other viewpoints. There is of course to limited time available in our lives to allow us that luxury of course and I will lay a lot of that problem down to a mixture of forces. I must venture to say that a major one is due to so many people working multiple jobs to get by and barely have time to sleep let alone have time to analyze other abstruse point of views as an example.
Trans folks of course already are feeling the brunt of ignorance in hate in the form of the bathroom debate.
Never understood the allure
of computer games, though I do admit to having the odd frustration with Spider solitaire.
Angharad