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For anyone who's interested, I am having a great deal of trouble getting The Sight back on track.
The reason is, a couple of people decided to try ripping me a new one in the comments and it kind of took the wind out of my sails. Since then, I managed to produce one chapter, but it seems the muse was not amused and no matter how hard I try, I can't seem to get it together.
At first I knew where, when and how--all those things, but somehow the negativity of the comments struck me deeply and derailed the Sight train. I hope it's not a permanent thing and doesn't mean I won't get it together, but at the moment, it's not to be and I feel that trying to force it will not be good for the story.
I does however bring me to a very salient point.
Negative comments.
I have to admit, seeing the way The Sight took off, I became something of a comment junky. I loved the way people here got personally involved and voiced their comments. Indeed, seeing that the votes occasionally put me in the top three stories if not better on a particular day, was very good indeed, so why the people concerned found it necessary to say what they did and effectively (at least for the time being) stop the story in its tracks is beyond me.
Technical issues such as continuity faults or grammar are things that can be overlooked--even with a proof reader. This sort of comment would be welcomed by an author especially if the points are valid, but may be best to send privately.
Not all people will like a story, but most sensible people will stop reading if something is not to their particular taste--not continue on to the end and then click the "add comment" link to tell the author so--publicly. This kind of comment is not only unwelcome, but serves no purpose other than to upset the author and potentially start an argument, which results in the administrators getting involved, fur to start flying and ultimately, it's the author who comes off worse.
Admittedly, some readers are very particular with what kind of stories they read, the genre, the content etc and thus we have the headings.
This can pose a problem for the author, since sometimes the inclusion of these headings can spoil any surprises he or she may be trying to spring and therefore he or she may choose to leave that or those headings out.
I have noticed that some readers find that annoying and will voice that annoyance publicly. Similarly, some people add headings even though their stories won't actually contain the aforementioned subject matter, which can also annoy, but is it really worth the readers time to write such a comment or indeed the authors time to read it?
So yes, the author can often mislead, yes, the author is not always going to write stories that you the reader might like and yes, sometimes the author may leave out headings to subjects that you the reader might have preferred to have been forewarned about, but think before you add that comment, assassinate the author and potentially alienate yourself, when all you really needed to do was stop reading.
NB
Comments
Sight Unseen
Sorry to hear of that 'The Sight' is not progressing as hoped. I was enjoying it immensely. What you need is a holiday. Ever considered taking a few days off? Perhaps a short trip abroad, to France for example, might help?
Even sorrier that you have been put of by some adverse comments. From what you say these seem to have been of a trivial nature relating to imperfect proof reading or dissatisfaction with the descriptive headings. The typos and misplaced punctuation are ills that afflict us all. I swear they breed like malignant bacteria in initially spotless writing surfacing days, weeks, later. There is no known cure. Grammatical errors can best be dealt with by writing mainly conversational pieces when one can always claim that one is only imitating speech patterns. For severe cases it is best to use ill educated characters from the deprived classes.
Headings are more tricky. I too have difficulty with them. What to include, what to leave out. For all the reasons you mention. I am surprised that people actually pay much attention to them, let alone remember them later. I think however that you have to seek comfort in the fact that you have elicited a response whether it be adverse or not. You have involved someone enough, infuriated them enough if you like, for them to spend time in disagreeing with you. Even better if you have stirred them up sufficiently, really got under their skin, for them to be insulting. Quite a feat and far better than dumb indifference.
Best of all a writer need to work hard on developing a high degree of arrogance. You have to believe deep down that you know better than your readers as to what is good and what is dross. You need the supreme confidence that that comes from having a hearty contempt for the opinion of others. In this way you can dismiss any cavilling, carping criticism, not to mention downright rudeness, from the lofty position of knowing that such detractors only betray their own lack of judgement, sensitivity, understanding of human values, intellectual insight, good manners, etc., etc.
Admittedly this is not an easy path to tread. It is not a counsel for the faint hearted or those infirm of purpose for it requires both determination and dedication. But ultimately, if you have the stomach for it, the acquisition of a sense of ones own rightness is quite invaluable.
So take heart Nick. There is a way ahead that offers protection against the crude slings and arrows of those unfortunates less gifted.
And it works. Well, most of the time.
Hugs
Some examples would help Nick
I responded earlier to something you said in a comment that I found to be 100% incorrect. You took to task another commenter for expressing a valid opinion and additionally saying how it could have been made to work for them.
You changed around what was said into an attack on the author, and as telling the author how and what to write.
Comments ARE for negative and positive comments. Constructive criticism is the best as far as helping make an author better or maybe improve something in the future.
Comments are going to affect each author differently. The rules here are no PERSONAL attacks against each other and the authors. Leave a comment that says "IT SUCKS!" isn't a valid comment either.
The only "Thought Police" on here are Erin and Sephrena to the best of my knowledge.
If you are going to completely SAVAGE somebody's story then you SHOULD take it private. If there are things you don't like but it's not personal or it's a point of view to be kicked around, do it publicly.
The comment section is not just for endless fawning and praise...or to discuss what might happen...it's to help make the author's better too.
Huggles
Alexis
I HAVE TO COMMENT! Sorry, about shouting, giggle, giggle...
As being one of "THOSE" people I know what a real negative and harmful comment is. I have received my share and I also have left a few for others. I'm guilty of responding 'in kind' and that is why you will hardly ever see a public comment made by me here. I do PM authors with my comments both good and critical ones.
Alexis makes a very good point when she commented on the comment you found for 'another authors' story as an attack.
I couldn't interpret the comment as an attack either. It was critical, but in no way was it an attack. I know the difference Nick. Just read the comments for my story "The Screw Up" and you'll read several comments that are prime examples of attacks!
Anyway, most of us will agree with you that attacks and hurtful comments should be sent by PM, but in reality, those people sending those types of comments need and want the public to read what they are lamenting about. You'll find the moralists do this often enough.
Three types of complaints will always be made public because they "NEED" them to be public. That is the one posting them.
Moral issues is #1
#2 is the headings, categories, and key word complainers. (screw them, I'm not ruining my story by notifying everyone in advance every keyword and category in my story!)
#3 are the people who just can't help but try and make you write your story their way.
I didn't see the comment you commented on as an attack fitting any of these even though it could have fit in #3, but I didn't read it that way.
This is reality, we have to be ready for these types of comments Nick, I know you've been around here a while as I have. These comments are always going to be left for stories. Those posting them can't help themselves, they just have to do it. There is no answer for this reality other than to let Erin know about them and then they will be dealt with.
Sometimes reality sucks, but we live in it and that's the way it is Nick.
Huggles Nick
"Be Your-Self, So Easy to Say, So Hard to Live!"
You and Alexis . . .
. . . may well be right.
I was incensed at the comment he left my friend and saw the one to which you refer as out of order too.
This blog wasn't for me in actuality, it was for the others and was prefaced by my inability to move The Sight forward because of the negative comments I had received.
You're all right inasmuch as one needs to develop something of a thick skin, but every so often, poorly worded or downright bad comments do seem to start creeping in and this was more of a wake-up call to try and get those who were being perhaps a little thoughtless, to rein in and think first, but I do appreciate the messages.
Perhaps I can pull The Sight like a phoenix from the ashes . . .
Thanks to all of you for the encouragement.
I'm not bad. I'm just drawn that way.
Perspective
Nick, I think you're possibly misplacing (haven't lost yet!) your perspective on this. Look at the number of votes each chapter got! Look at the POSITIVE comments! Look at how every time someone said something remotely negative, another reader jumped all over them.
All my life, I've wanted nothing less than for everyone to love me, so I sympathize with your becoming disheartened when someone doesn't. At the same time, though, I've learned that it's important for me to stand with what I believe in, and to try to deny the "haters" the satisfaction of winning.
Many of us (I'd love to say "Most of us," but I don't know everyone here) recognized that you had ahold of something really special in "The Sight", and thought it was developing quite nicely. You teased us with mysteries. You tantalized us with special powers. You tormented us with cliffhangers. In short, we were eating out of your hand!
So, what's happened? I've reread the comments on the last 3 chapters, and I can only conclude that I must be as thick as a post. I don't see any sort of mass sentiment that's anything other than positive.
When you deal with the public, you'll always run into some idiot making some irrelevent ego-gratifying pet point. (I should know. At times I've been that idiot. Hey, we all have our moments.) But, you can't let that bug you. Not when you've created something as good as "The Sight."
Please? Pretty please?
Comments!
A paraphrase of something I wrote to a friend reciently...
As for comments. The quality of writing here is good. I've searched
for good sites on the net, because I'm a voracious reader (usually),
without enough money for lots to books. That which you find here is
second to none. I think this quality of writing that our community
demands from us also garners a quality of commenter that you don't find
common elsewhere. The interplay between the two is, I think, what
makes this site work so well.
Demanding a higher standard from readers follows just a few simple
rules. Fiction is fictional. The writers try things in stories that don’t
reflect their real lives or moral fiber. I always give them the benefit
of the doubt for that reason. If someone has let me down, and put
something in a story that makes my hair stand on end, I try to let them
know that they’ve disappointed me a little, but only in the most polite
and inpersonal terms - and then, only in private.
I think you’ll find a large number respond well to that. “I was reading
your story, and it was pretty good, right up till the point that you had
the stunt-baby come in and… I didn’t finish this story, but I can see that
you have one in you that I will greatly admire… â€
The writers here want you to read them, and want you to comment.
I myself am a complete comment-whore, even though most of my family
and friends would tell you that I’m the kind of person who dose not devote
much worry to what others like about me. As a writer, I can assure you,
the exact opposite is true.
A Comment, any comment, is already an extremely powerful medium. It
carries a lot of throw weight by it’s very nature, and by the vulnerability of
the audience it is aimed at: Authors, and the readers they hope to garner.
When used with some delicacy and some little tact, even where I may not
actually feel the writer really deserves either, it is an incredibly powerful
tool.
Think of it as a laser scalpel in the hands of a great surgeon.
You have direct access to all our vital organs, including our brain, and most
especially our hearts; and, scalpels are sharp. Use it carefully, and you will
save lives, and get miraculous results!
I always remember there are people who read every comment we make,
who’ve literally lost everything over this inexplicable feeling..
Money, jobs, wives, parents…, children. It’s sad, and yes a little
silly that they would loose it all just so that they can look a little
different, and a lot more like they really see themselves; but, it
certainly proves their feelings and drives are the most powerful
things in their lives, and very very real.
I always have care, of them, and of myself.
Sarah Lynn
Thank you Sarah Lynn
I wish I could have put it like that!
I'm not bad. I'm just drawn that way.
hard nosed susceptibility
Is that a contradiction? Perhaps so, but then as Sarah has so eloquently put it above so's being here often. I note a comment string on another story right now going totally off the wall because one tried humour and a few others didn't get it. Dangerous thing humour, I know I've tried and it almost always gets me in trouble.
Thing is that most that write here will be searching and exploring, trying to understand things. Often extremely personal things. Hey it's just a story...right? Very often.. way wrong. Any writer of anything puts themselves to a degree on the line. You risk dislike, misunderstanding, distaste, jealousy, fear, anger, not to mention criticism. The thing is that stories in this little world are often far more personal and emotionally connected than others. Simply because of the subject and the why of writing in the first place. A generality I grant you, but more often right than not I believe.
See, regardless of what name is used or who the person is they want...need to be accepted, as Jane or Fred or Jim or Candy and so here that's who they are, period. I have hurt and been hurt, I can take criticism...mostly as long as I'm feeling sorta up and it's not too direct. I try to learn, that's important. So regardless of what one might think of me and who I am ( in their mind perhaps), another might go..yeah, or ok, I see that... another go...silently, oh get lost you're wrong. Well ok, no need to be silent, just be polite. It's fine to disagree, just choose the words very carefully, because it's almost happened, it has happened, it will again. People get hurt, they feel, sometimes more than is thought reasonable, I've been guilty both ways...people dump stories or trash endings, pull them or simply walk away.
This place matters and the simple fact I can write this comment like this says a lot as does this discussion. Comment blowups have nearly de-railed this site more than once. So do give some thought to the words, here they matter...a lot. I saw a comment last night, on another site, a story I know and an Author I respect. It was pure vicious attack. I looked this morning and it's gone as it should be. Thing is it's sorta anonymous there, here...they'd be shredded and then dumped because it would not only not be tolerated it would be actively rebuffed. It's a small world and this little corner is smaller and more precarious because of that, let's take care of it huh
Y'all take care ya hear... and I'm not even close to a US Sthn type person.
love (used deliberatley)
Kristina
Nick, Nick, Nick ....
I was about to say something and forgot.
Oh, in my experience as a wannabe writer and self confessed sillyness lover, I haven't a clue to what will generate possitive or negative comments or comments in gerneral.
Okay, that is not strictly true as Robin Goodfellow proves to us, the failed ( it's own author freely admits) writng experiment that because in part of the catagories in it's teaser/header is one of the most viewed pieces here. I understand Randalyn is trying to salvage it and complete it; I wish her well. There are entetaining well written pieces here that have few comments and fluff that has huge piles of it. Mind you I like fluff and the so called serious pieces equally.
Myself, I have chapters of Timeout that got many comments and some equally good/bad chapters that got few. Timing, what else is here at the time and who knows what all come into play. The way I deal with critics, is I try to put my self in their shoes, difficult as I wear a US Mens 12c or d. Sometimes they are simply a drunken ranter and what can you do? But sometimes they may fixate on an aspect of a story. They may have interpreted it wrong BUT I do look to see if they have hit on something in their tunnel vision, or so it might seem to me at the time.
A repeated complaint about my heroine's love life got me to thinking. Had I portrayed it in a way that comfused the reader? I thought about it, and thanked the other readers who thought the commenter was full of it, and eventually made some changes. Nothing huge but they clarified the possition and feelings of my heroine and her younger almost lover and the story is better for it. I turned what could have been a negative into a possitive.
Mind you some critics ARE full of it and should be politely ignored. I always try to respond politely even to harsh comments. It anit easy at times but then I don;t get the most vitriolicommenters like some here have been hit by, fortunately Erin steps int when it gets to be too much. Stil feeling get hurt and I hurts me to see people hurting.
That is another thing, I will accept critizime much more readily if it is done politely. It's okay to rant at me but in a soft and non-threatening voice, *K*?
Oh, Nick, start writing, no excuses. Got it!!
John in Wauwatosa
P.S. The other secret is to sit back and wait. On the net it is so easy to fire off a quick retort with out thinking it through. That's how flame wars start.
John in Wauwatosa
Ultimately
You are very right about the thick skin thing. But what the readers also need to realize ((and believe me I've been guilty of this before, but I'm learning ^^)) is that the story is for the author, not the readers. We write because if we didn't we'd go insane either that or sink into an almost unfathomable depression ((been there done that T_T)) I think you are right about thinking before writing a comment, however what if you HATED the characters but recognized the brilliance and excellent writing behind them. I have nothing against authors like Vickie Tern, they are brilliant writers, I just want their characters to die in the most horrible way possible, that's all ^^ They did a GREAT job of making pure evil people, and I just want them to get their comeuppance like they deserve ^^ My muse is evil too, so I understand that just because you write an evil story, doesn't make you evil? If you'd seen half the stuff I write, you'd never believe I was the cheerful, happy, hyperactive little girl that I am ^^ I just happen to be good at writing horror, I'm not sure why, it just works for me, oh well ^^ I wish you good luck in your writing ^^
I know who I am, I am me, and I like me ^^
Transgender, Gamer, Little, Princess, Therian and proud :D
NOT Being Commented On
Is much worse. You write an absolutely brilliant story (in your own humble opinion as an author) and post it and wait for all those comments to come in AND NOTHING HAPPENS and you wish somebody cared enough to say they hated it or that it was rubbish. ANYTHING but silence. You have no idea what that lot out there think of you. Even if the number of reads piles up- did they just click on, take one look and click off? Negative,nasty comments can still feed the ego. No comments feeds nothing.
Nick, just look at the overwhelming number of positive comments on your stories and revel in them,
Jealous as hell,
Joanne
Rule of Thumb(s down)
A thousand "Attaboys" are wiped out by one "Aw shit!"
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
How true
:)
I'm not bad. I'm just drawn that way.
While I agree with most of what you said,
There are times the authors do goad us on and it is us, the reader, who must decide to take them at their word and go on reading the story or not. Having been burned by this a time or two, I have made it a standing decision "not to go there." But like you said, it is the story that must be commented upon, not the writer; to do otherwise invites personal recriminations and reprisals and can escalate quickly.
Also, while the majority of the bad comments are those from the readers, there have been more than a few from the authors themselves, but by no means a significant number. So even though reciprocity is in effect, remember the authors chose to share with us and deserve the respect of those of us that can't write properly.
If you are going to comment on a story, you need not like the genre or topic to say the spelling or grammar is atrocious, but please give examples because without the example, the author may not know where the problem is. I remember looking at something I wrote over and over and still could not see the rror until it was pointed oput to me.
Good luck with your Muse, Nick, they can be finicky and capricious. I haven't seen or heard from mine since someone close to me called her a plot bunny. /sigh
Hugs
Diana
Respect is something that, while freely given, can also be earned.
Comments
I have to admit that I'm guilty of reading lots of fiction without adding comments. That's kind of ironic because I like to get comments about my stuff.
Out of all the literature that I have read on line, there are perhaps two or three stories that inspired me to leave a nasty comment. Of course, I refrained. I have received nasty comments, and they didn't do me any good.
I like to follow the rule that one should praise in public, and criticize in private.
So Nick, please don't let a few sad people disuade you. For every good comment you get, there are probably at least a hundred people who enjoyed the story but didn't take the time to comment.
I have enjoyed most of your stories -- particularly The Sight. If you find the ambition, and the real world lets you have the time, I will definitely enjoy reading more of the story. I'm sure that there are plenty more who feel the same. Alas, we won't hear from most of them.
Nick, I Have Enjoyed Your Story
It is shameful that there are those that seem to delight in hurting an author. What would these same people do if they were treated like they treat others?
May Your Light Forever Shine
May Your Light Forever Shine
Keep going anyway
When I read this entry of yours I had to go and read "The Sight". I'm sorry I hadn't before, but I don't get to read many of stories here. It's just a time issue.
I like it. I like the way it's written, I like the story, I like the supernatural element. I like not knowing where it's going or what's going to happen.
I didn't read any of the comments.
I hope you keep going with the story. In the meantime, I'm going to read your other writings here.
Comments are a strange little world all their own. It's impossible to be philosophical about them, or to anticipate the ways they'll affect you. It's been the hardest thing for me to get used to here, because I never had an audience before, and to go from that to such an intimate crowd is a big emotional step.
And hey -- your phrase "You know where the off switch is" keeps going through my head. It was inspired.
Hugs,
Kaleigh
Comments
I will admit that I do not always leave comments (good or bad)on the stories that I read partly pecause I do not want to upset the author and also because what I want to say has usually been said by other readers. The stories that I like I will always vote on, if I don't like it I don't vote. I figure this is almost as good as commemting and the author does not have to try and decipher what I was trying to say and get upset over a negative comment.
One of the reasons that I like BCTS is because of the voting system that Erin has setup here, I only wish that some of the other sites would follow her example.
Melanie