In reference to the great bathroom debate. I keep hearing people say that transgender people need to use the restroom that corresponds to their anatomy. This has got to be the stupidest thing that I've ever heard. Have you ever seen another person's anatomy while in the bathroom? If you have, then you're the pervert. If a person looks, talks, walks, identifies as a woman, what possible good can come from making them use the men's bathroom (unless you think transgender murder is a good thing). same thing goes for F2M, do you really think someone with a beard and tats belong in a woman's restroom.
Look, I understand some problems when it comes to locker rooms, where people shower and change and we're going to have to come to some kind of compromise. But public bathrooms? It's not like we all sit in a circle and have a big conversation. We sit in little cubicles.
What about the children? The great last gasp efforts of idiots everywhere. If you allow transgender people to use the restroom of their presenting gender, children might get molested by pedophiles? Your argument is invalid for a few reason. 1. same sex child molestation happens. There are a long list of female pedophiles on the sex offender registry. Oh, and if you think only men are pedophiles, aren't you a sexist bastard for not worrying about little boys who are equally incapable of protecting themselves. - Katie Leone, author.
---- Anything else that can be added to this would be appreciate.
Comments
It happens
Women can wind up in all sorts of states of undress, sometimes, in a womens restroom. They may be in front of the mirror, adjusting a bra. Or showing another women something on her breast or something. A bartender showed me her breast in the ladies room when I was ready for breast augmentation as I wanted to see how good her doctor was.
And don't forget, accidents happen. Someone forgets to lock their stall door and somebody barges in. I did that once myself, forgetting to lock my stall door, and somebody opened my stall. And if one is looking for a stall, sometimes people will be lazy and not look under but look through the slits of the door. And sometimes there are faulty latches on the stall, allowing it to pop open if the door frame gets bounced a bit when a neighboring door is closed.
I am not saying that a woman identified trans-person should not use the ladies room, but be aware that all sorts of things can happen.
Oh and this is especially true of airport ladies rooms
There are all sorts of women who will freshen up in a ladies room, including doing a full make-up job.
If
everyone wore diapers, then we wouldn't have to worry about public bathrooms.
I realize you're being facetious, but....
...I do wear them. I'm incontinent in part due to my disability, so diapers are pretty much a necessity. But they do have to be changed sometime, so if I have to use a restroom, I'll plan most of my activities around the family restroom in the local library downtown. (Meaning I either have to stay within reasonable wheelchair distance from the building, or hope I can hold on until I get home). Even after eighteen years of living full-time female, I'm still worried I'll get "read" in the ladies' room, and all it takes is one complaint from one of the other women for my life to become a living hell.
I had to quit a job because of the restroom issue. I worked for close to a year at a packaging plant which hires mainly physically and mentally disabled people. I was informed I had to use the restroom corresponding to my birth gender on the rather flimsy grounds that I might confuse the mentally disabled workers otherwise. Never mind that I dressed female and was wearing full makeup. One would think it would confuse them more if I went into the men's room.
The diapers I used unfortunately were inadequate for a seven-hour shift, so they inevitably leaked. Badly, More than once I had to work while in urine-soaked clothing. At the time (2002) there was no one to whom I could complain. It was the closest thing to a living nightmare that I've ever experienced.
My apologies, incidentally, for necro-ing this thread, but I couldn't think of a better way to point out the stupidity of this restroom paranoia.
Livin' A Ragtime Life,
Rachel
lucky me then
here, you are legally required to use the bathroom of the gender you are presenting.
anyone has an issue with it, they are up the creek without a paddle.
Stupidity is a capital offense. A summary not indictable.
So how does that work then
Say for a stone butch dyke. They can be quite masculine looking but they are of course still women. \
Will she be forced to go to the mens toilets?
it boils down to
what you are wearing.
if every stitch of clothing is male, then mens room.
if a single garment is female, then ladies room.
the butch womyn can dress 100% female clothing and still look quite masculine. Mark's Work Wear has clothing for women that looks like the male version of work wear. ( they carry both genders clothing )
Stupidity is a capital offense. A summary not indictable.
That is begging for trouble
Stone butch womyn dress in quite the masculine fashion, every stitch for some. Surprised that has not caused an issue yet.
lol
the only time any trans person had an issue that I know of, a lesbian bar told the trans woman she couldn't use the ladies room.
1 sexual discrimination lawsuit of transwoman vs lesbian bar later*, trans rights are covered by sexual discrimination part of the human rights code.
and it is that code that is the legally required to use the gender appropriate facilities, includes changing facilities at gyms, pools etc.
* British Columbia Supreme Court decision in 2000
Stupidity is a capital offense. A summary not indictable.
actually it has
Somewhere back east in the US, a lesbian woman, short hair, so supposedly very butch, was seen going into a restroom at this place, a bar/restaurant? the security guard, a male, saw her, made the assumption she was a MtF Transsexual, and ENTERED the ladies room, and physically removed her. both the guard AND the manager refused to see her id and made her leave the establishment.
here is the basic info from the article you can search for more info from this:
Cortney Bogorad has filed a lawsuit against Fishbone's Rhythm Kitchen Cafe, alleging that a security guard physically removed her from the women's bathroom on Jan. 23, claiming she was male, according to a report by Katrease Stafford of the Free Press.
Teresa L.
That's a dangerous theory
I go out and about wearing only women's clothing, and wouldn't dream of going into the ladies room. Unless you look closely, you can't tell whether it is men's or women's.
Yes
Especially if it is just for a fraternity initiation or some costume or something like that.
That mostly goes with what I wear.
Although I mostly wear men's jeans, yet tuck(almost always), the rest of my cloths I usually wear is female. Still, I only very rarely been "Mam-ed" usually it is "Sir". I think I better stick 100% with the men's room.
>i< ..:::
if i am out in public in guy mode, i use the mens
but only the stalls. This is ONLY because of my work, but most of the time i am in public i am me, who i am now legally on all my id but birth certificate, which is still in the works.
i have debated with people on this, and one time had been threatened with death if "i were to go into a mens room while his wife and daughter were in there". i responded that i am a licensed firearm owner and if in a dangerous area, i carry, stun gun always, (although looking at this new method, kimber Pepper Blaster, a high end pepper spray, shoots up to 13ft at over 90mph, so has a wallop, enough that they tell you NOT to use it under two feet) and if really bad area or not sure of it, i carry my pistol.
hearing all the horror stories of what happens to our sisters, and some brothers, i am NOT going to be somebodies punching bag. i had enough of bullies in school, no more. if they want to use such behavior as adults, then they can suffer the repercussions of that behavior.
that said, i know a LOT of cis women who look more masculine than most of us, because we are TRYING to look this way, to blend in, etc. some women "take it for granted" and dont care, etc.
in my reply to guest reader above, i showed how a cis woman was thought to be a transsexual and was REMOVED PHYSICALLY from a restroom, and thrown out of the establishment by the guard and manager, without ever allowing her to show her id, she offered or even demanded and they refused. so this HAS happened, and probably has happened to actual Transsexual persons, who were just too embarrassed to even say anything in their defense, for fear of outing themselves or just shame, or whatever reason.
Teresa L.
I use ladies lavatories ALL THE TIME!
I've never had a problem in a lady's lavatory and here in the UK. Bathrooms are usually to be found in houses for bathing plus lavatorial functions though in some larger houses, (ahem) the lavatories are often separated from the bathrooms.
Out in public I always use the ladies lavatories and I've never been challenged yet despite NOT 'passing'. Indeed, as often as not the girls will strike up a conversation as they realise my 'scaffolding bag' (read ,purse' in USA) usually contains a veritable arsenal of make-up, toiletry, and personal equipment.
Judging by the responses from our transatlantic sisters, it seems that lavatories are still an issue for tee-girls over there.
By the way, as a matter of curious interest, in the UK there are NO legal distinctions between male and female lavatories. Technically a man or woman can use either toilets but custom, practise and culture tends to proscribe such sharing. However, it IS illegal to use a disabled person's lavatory unless one is disabled or attending to a disabled person.
Nowadays, I don't even think about which door to use as I automatically use female facilities if they are labelled.
Toilet
In my country, there is no law regarding which toilet a trans is expected to use. Everyone just assumes that if you look passably like a woman, go to a woman's toilet. If you look passably like a man, go to a men's toilet. Of course, there are some awkwardness at times, but most people here has a policy of not spending too much time in the toilet. The only problem would be from feminazis, but there's few of them here, so it is unlikely you will find one by chance.
Usually, people with 'questionable' gender, will be too shy about going into some toilets. So there's an understanding here that trans persons should use the toilets for the disabled when their gender is unclear. But this is not set in stone.
I myself was often called out when I entered male toilets. They would often say, "Miss, you got the wrong toilet" and I would say, "But I'm a guy, you know". There are also times when I entered, and the men looked at me for a few seconds, and then went back to their own business. The funniest would be when a guy comes into the toilet, sees me, quickly runs back out before realizing that he got the correct toilet by looking at the signboard, then slowly comes in again while watching my reaction.
Sometimes I chuckled in secret. Watching their expressions are really funny. It always puts a smile to my face.