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The site's been seeing a lot of requests for editors lately for stories, and I for one have to say that's a GREAT thing. It shows that more and more of our posters here are showing dedication to producing good quality work, and the site improves as a result.
The problem is FINDING editors. Whether it's just that they tend to be picky, busy, or nervous about offering to help non-established writers, a lot of times the editor request threads don't get a tremendous amount of response.
So, here's what I propose: if you're interested in editing, why not use this thread as a way to let people know. Writers, if you see an editor in the thread who you've used feel free to add commentary on the quality of their work as well.
For editors, try and supply the following information:
-Interested Genres:
What genres of TG fiction are you willing to edit? Science Fiction? Magical? Real-world only? BDSM? Whatever you're willing to edit, let authors know.
-Editing Style:
Are you just in it for spelling, syntax, and punctuation, or do you provide your authors with commentary on contents and style as well?
-Edited Work:
If you've edited for people before and have any team-ups you're particularly happy with, feel free to list or even link them here.
-Time Table:
How fast can you usually turn over a piece submitted to you? Do you edit for several people already? Is dedication a problem?
-Advertising Blurb:
Tell us a little about yourself! Likes, dislikes, that kind of thing. This way prospective clients can more easily judge if you'd be a good choice for their work.
-Cost:
Do you edit for free, or do you charge? Does it depend on whether the work is to be posted for free or sold? If you do charge, how much?
Authors who've used an editor and decide to comment on their "ad," please keep in mind the site rule about keeping it friendly. If you've had problems with an editor that you feel others should know about either keep it purely factual "I asked them to edit a piece about squid and they said they were anti-squid" or private "Minor issues. PM me for details."
Hopefully this will pick up. Doubtful, but hopefully. Matching as many interested authors with editors as we can can only be a positive thing for the site, so if you're willing to help, let us know!
Melanie E.
Editorial services
I'm going to make a permanent place to ask for editors here and for editors to offer their services. Real soon now!
Hugs,
Erin
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
Perhaps,
Compile a list of those on the site who have editor status - with their permission of course. I was going to differentiate between editor re stories and that of editorial, as per the site which lies in the hands of Auntie Erin.
In the spirit of my suggestion I'm happy to go on the list.
Angharad
That sounds like a good idea
I have done some editing over the time I have spent here. Lately I do have a bit of a compatibility problem, in that "Pages" the Apple native word processor, that I use now, does not play all that well with other word processors.
with love,
Hope
Once in a while I bare my soul, more often my soles bear me.
No?
Whatever you used last year (or earlier this?) seemed to work OK with me. Or have you branched out?
I've edited (or more like proofed) for quite a number of writers (including one for Hope E R) over the years. Trouble is I'm a big softie and regard the writer as Queen when, if I were a professional editor, I'd give 'em hell and make their stories bleed with death of a thousand cuts.
I prefer long(ish), character driven stuff (preferably with a bit of in context smut as Katie Leone calls it, though it's not a necessary condition and definitely not a sufficient one :) ). I've just finished nearly a year's work on a very long saga which is back with the writer and will, hopefully, be posted sometime soon, somewhere. So, I'll no doubt add my name to the list.
Oh, and I'm free but hopefully worth more than that. I'm retired and have enough to live in the (modest) style to which I've become accustomed
Robi
Thanks Robyn
It is true that Robyn was one of the editors of my last story. I would like to go on record, though, as saying that I did not feel anywhere near a 'Queen' when she send my slaved-over manuscript back to me, pretty much untouched, with a comment that - as I remember it - was along the lines of: "Get your s**t together and decide what tense you want to write in."
I have downloaded the upgrades that Apple sends out periodically and from the feed-back I have gotten, from the few people whom I have edited for, it almost seems as if Apple is growing further away from a standardized platform with other word processors.
All joking aside, Robyn REALLY helped make the story more readable. Thanks again hon.
with love,
Hope
Once in a while I bare my soul, more often my soles bear me.
Proofing
IIRC proofing is making sure that what is sent to the printer is what is printed, letter for letter, spelling mistakes and errors included.
Sounds like something I am qualified to do. Yep I can check that what you've sent to the site is what appears on the site (mostly).
Hugs
Cat
-
You can't choose your relatives but you can choose your family.
Editing
I recently started a new eBook publishing company specifically for TG fiction writers. So if anyone is interested in going "amazon" let me know. I'll edit but it's going to be for a flat fee of maybe $20 for short stories $100 for full length novels. Far cheaper than professional publishers that charge you up to 5K for a book. Oh, and eBook covers are at cost (or get them yourself at www.selfpubbookcovers.com).
I would be glad to help
Melanie -
I don't know about others, but I'm not sure if anyone would actually want my help.
Proof-reading is simple, offering input on someone's story can be much harder.
I agree with you that writers need all of the input and encouragement we can get.
I proofread
I would say that my specialty is proofreading. Indeed if I had one wish it would be that I could proofread the sorts of stories I like to read as a job. So far I haven't seen any way to make that come true.
Here's what I've read and liked so far on the site:
1. Anything in the SPA universe.
2. Most of Bikini Beach universe
3. SRU stories (though I don't know if any are here)
4. Anything by Amethyst
5. Anything by Elsbeth.
6. I believe I've read every story in the Darkrealms Universe
7. Tuckerverse
What I don't like:
Humiliation for the sake of humiliation. Also I don't consider body waste (scat, urine, or blood) erotic also snuff is generally a turn off for me. Also I absolutely refuse to read any thing that has a dolcet (cannibalism) scene in it. Some bondage is ok but not if it seems like it is not desired on the part of both parties. I usually draw the line at rape and will not read anything that has rape in it. Though I do understand that rape is part of life, as is death, and yes even murder.
What I have time for:
I work 40 hours a week in a factory. That takes up a lot of my time. I also am an amateur writer. That takes up some of my free time. However I read about 1 gig worth of stories if I can find new ones every week. So I should be able to fit at least one fair sized chapter in a week.
I've Edited and Proofed.....
...Katherine Day's stories since July of 2013, and the second half or thereabouts (Chapter 15 and later) of Anesidora's Return of the Fey. I proof for clarity, misspellings, grammar, etc. (It's always up to the author, though, to decide whether to make my suggested changes or find some other way to solve the problem.)
I also try to point out inconsistencies or anachronisms, which crosses the line, so to speak, into editing. (I've been editing and writing nonfiction for a long time; had my own professional publication for about ten years.) If there's something that I think the author needs to reconsider, I'll generally include it in a cover note rather than part of the story proof. I may ask questions, usually if they're ones I'd ask in story comments or PMs if I were reading the story online.
If an author wants me to, I'm willing to go further and provide plot suggestions or even frank value judgments. (That wasn't the case here.) But that's generally only if asked; I don't consider that part of my job. (And in the case of some types of fiction, I'm don't consider myself qualified to comment on value.)
There have been other authors over the years that I've worked with on a one-shot basis (just proofing, or on a couple of occasions some ESL items -- syntax and word choice, not translation).
A few authors have invited me to evaluate their stories for clarity, immediately before or just after posting.
And I've dealt with a number of folks here in PMs and (before I learned better) story comments, nearly always unsolicited. Some of them appreciate or at least tolerate it, others get annoyed. (Two of them told me in rather strong terms never to write them again. I've complied.) Over the past several years I've generally only PMed authors about such things if I found the problem significant enough to take me out of the story while reading it, or if it was a misspelling/wrong word likely to recur frequently in later chapters.
If people are interested in my services, I'm generally available and reasonably quick: obviously it depends on length, but I was usually returning chapters two or three days after receipt, sometimes sooner, very occasionally later. (I do have a life, sort of.) I don't charge for working on stories for this or similar free sites, but if you end up selling the story and get a good return (more than, say, a couple of hundred dollars), I'd appreciate a small share of your success.
Re genres, I prefer the soft stuff; as the two authors I mentioned would indicate, I'm also solid on science-fiction/fantasy and more-or-less real-world items. (As to fantasy, though, I'm not an RPGer.)
I won't do forced femme or humiliation stories, or erotica. I'm not strong on weaponry, war or horror. Most fan-fiction subjects don't match up with my body of knowledge. (I can catch up on Wikipedia, but that's clearly not optimal for an author.) My comic/film superhero knowledge (unlike that of my namesake on FM) doesn't extend much past the DC universe circa 1970, and my manga experience is limited mostly to Ranma.
I'm a good researcher, which could make me a reasonable choice for historical backgrounds. I'm good with numbers, some small details, and sports games (tabletop more than computer).
Finally, as you can see, I tend to write in greater detail than I probably should.
Eric
As Eric mentioned,
I have had my "Last of the Fey" edited / proofed through his talents.
I have had no objections to those efforts and have been quite pleased with them.
Other than learning I had (and still have) a number of idiosyncracies which tended to... uh, populate the story chapters on a repeated basis despite my efforts to correct / eradicate them, I found Eric's talents to be of great use. The questions posed caused me to reconsider how I had written some material in an effort to clarify and the conjectures, both behind the scenes and in public comments on the chapters resulted in what I hope were improvements... at least no one else saw my errors once I learned to take Eric's contributions to heart.
A perfect example was my use of "it's" when I meant "its" and it only took Eric some, what?, maybe twenty chapters to finally pound it into my head. That it was something I should have knoqn, and did at one time know only made it worse but Eric persevered and I finally corrected my mental handicap (handy cap?) whatever. Now I only need make that correction with proper names and I will have fixed about ten percent of my repeat errors......
Eric, I'll send you an e-mail around the end of the month.
Take care
Anesidora
I can confirm Eric is thorough
and willing to give honest criticism. During a previous offer of help I submitted 'Oh, Cheers,' to his ministrations, and there are a lot of elements of what he pointed out in his overview of the story elements that I'm integrating into the rewrite. Don't expect it to be sugar coated if you do ask his opinion on elements of your story, but it WILL be useful and beneficial to you, as an author, to hear.
Melanie E.
YOU Are Your Best Editor
You can do the best job of editing your own story.
You've finished a story and can't wait to publish it and read those glowing comments.
STOP!!!
1.) Read your story aloud to yourself. Your ear will tell you what sounds wrong. Fix all those duplications where all those words are . . . duplicated.
2.) Change passive verbs into active. "Was" is not your friend. "She was reading a book." will be much better for a reader as "Her eyes tore into the pages of her book."
3.) SET YOUR MANUSCRIPT ASIDE. If you don't look at your manuscript for several weeks you will be able to read it almost as if someone else wrote it. . .a better perspective for editing. You will find errors and ways to improve it.
4.) While you read your story again, keep a post-it in front of you with your main theme written upon it. Look for ways to bring that theme to the front of your story. The theme should be simple . . . less than fifteen words. "Love conquers all" is a great theme and probably is used more than any other. I use "People know more about you than you think" quite often.
5.) Edit for other people. It's easier to see your mistakes in what other people do. Learn from them.
6.) Please keep in mind that there are very few Rights and Wrongs. If your story is compelling, spelling, grammar, technique and all the other things editors will suggest become unimportant. You should be able to tell your story in three to four sentences. That is the normal length of a query letter to a literary agent. If you can't compress your story to that few statements, it's probably muddled.
Recently a writer asked me to read her draft to see if it was "too stupid" to publish. The story was extremely compelling. The idea seemed fresh and interesting. Sometimes new writers worry way too much.
Good luck.
Jill
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
Well ...
... I recall your calling on me to look over one of your stories a long time ago. I felt highly honoured (honored?) :)
I agree with all your points except the last. I can put up with odd spelling mistake or even the occasional tense change but too many and I lose interest. However the one thing that really turns me off right at the start is the shortage of 'white space'. I will not even begin to read a story that has no, or very few, paragraphs or crams all of a direct speech conversation into one paragraph. It's just more work that I'm prepared to do.
The writer must make some effort to help the reader appreciate their efforts or they lose me forever.
Robi
White Space
Some very smart person told me several years ago that long paragraphs are deadly in e-publishing. The recommendation I try to follow is a maximum of three sentences.
I also follow the school of thought that a paragraph should contain only one character's words, actions, or thoughts. By following that rule a writer can cut back on attributions.
Your thoughts have always been valuable to me . . . as is your friendship.
Jill
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
Really, i'm confused
I have seen published novels I bought at the book store with more than 3 sentences per paragraph. I Try to make my stories as easy to follow as possible. I cut to a new paragraph often.
Someone told me I have cut too often when I should combined them more. Now i'm confused
In standard print
White space is wasted space, so "full" paragraphs are a remnant of times when paper was at a premium and printing was expensive.
In online work, separating out your story to make it as easy to read as possible costs nothing, so why not do it?
Melanie E.
It depends
I think, as always, it depends on circumstances.
While I agree with your arguments I would say that the one place where a longer than typical paragraph is acceptable is when it is for descriptive purposes. In that situation, when you are describing a single room, or scene, or location then sometimes a block of text can work.
I wouldn't want to make that block too long, myself. Big chunks of text put me off as well, enough so that I try to break up long descriptions with conversation snippets and suchlike.
I really don't like authors who put the speech of more than one person into the same paragraph and I really don't like authors who give me pages of TL;DR before any of their characters say anything.
Penny
My College Newspaper...
...(circa 1970) required short paragraphs -- often just one sentence -- because the printed columns on a five-column tabloid-size page or eight-column broadsheet page (or for that matter a three-column newsletter page) are so narrow that it's an imposition to a reader if one uses the traditional lead-sentence-and-everything-related-to-it format for paragraphs. IIRC, four lines of manually typewritten text (that'd be 12-point Courier, 80 characters wide) was the maximum that was acceptable.
(The college paper also arbitrarily boldfaced every third paragraph of longer stories in order to break the graphic monotony, unless one chose to use frequent bold subheads for that purpose. Can't recall seeing that done elsewhere.)
Anyway, as others here have pointed out, even on a computer screen, bite-sized paragraphs are usually preferable from a reader's standpoint. And it might be worth mentioning that these days people are reading stories on cellphones and tablets with smaller and narrower screens than laptop and desktop models, so paragraphs that don't seem too monolithic in full-screen format may look a lot different to some readers.
Eric
As it happens...
...at Lisa's urging I've been getting myself back into the mental mode to do both copy-editing and proofreading on a freelance basis. I'd be willing to donate a bit of effort to stuff here, though, as I do enjoy having stories to read. ^___^ I'd also be willing to work with a writer on a story concept that catches my eye on a developmental editing basis if anyone would like to pitch that to me. I do owe a bit of effort to Kaho, should she still wish, from past promises. ^^
I'm willing to either copy-edit or proof up to 3000 words per writer per project for free for shorter works (one- or two-off type stories), with each additional block of up to 3000 for USD $5. (Better than my current rate of 2000 words for the same price). Turnaround of one such job in one week after I contact you with its acceptance or it's free, unless I contact you with specific limitations in advance.
Alternately, I'll do up to 2000 words per writer per chapter of a longer project for free, with each additional block of up to 2000 words per chapter at USD $5. I'll take no more than one such chapter per week per project per author, with similar turnaround times and discounts as above.
Developmental editing... Well, I've not yet determined a price structure for that, so if you are interested, we'll hash that out between us at that time. I'll try to err on the side of reasonable.
I have a hard limit of 20,000 words per week at present which will be necessarily reduced as regular paying jobs are available. I reserve the right to refuse service to anyone on the basis of professional conduct.
At present, I am most interested in stories with strong characterization and well-thought-out plot and setting (and am willing to help you get to those points). I have a preference for science fiction and fantasy, suspense, and mystery. I prefer to avoid Forced Fem and other abusive situations, UNLESS they add something significant to a story that, otherwise, is not dependent upon them. I have little or no interest in infantilization or humiliation; I will confess to a fairly strong streak of feminism, and find such themes unpleasant at best. Likewise, I prefer not-overly religious material; I'm an atheist, and while I can treat such things in fiction, I strongly prefer to not, with no prejudice to your own beliefs.
I use US spelling primarily, but can adapt to British et al as desired. While unlikely to be relevant, I am very familiar with MLA Style, moderately familiar with APA Style, and have passing familiarity with Chicago Style, but am willing to work to any consistent style sheet that may be required (particularly unusual styles may provoke a USD $5 surcharge at my discretion).
Contact me either via PM here or email: e (dot) liz (dot) alleman (at) gmail (dot) com.
If desired, I can be available for conference via Skype, Google+ hangout, or via telephone (within North America); contact me for details.
For my CV, suffice it to say that I worked for a period as a writing tutor and editor, and enjoy greatly the process of helping a writer to produce high-quality, interesting material in many different genres. I studied with a long-time copywriter/-editor and have continued to expand my understanding and skill since. I hold the honing of a writer's skills to be the most important part of my job, and one that brings me happiness. :) I feel I've succeeded when you succeed. I hope to hear from people soon!
-Liz
Successor to the LToC
Formerly known as "momonoimoto"
About Those Editors
Well, How can I say this and be as polite as possible? Okay, will start with a big thumbs up to Erin for making a place for the Editors. Next I think it wise to pass along a simple warning. Be very careful which Editor you choose, I have used more than one and some (no names mentioned) want to do a re-write rather than edit.
That said, I have talked with Eric in PM a few times and he seems very knowledgeable so I suspect he would be a great editor. My first goal when I write a story is to tell a story that moves at a good pace and keeps the readers interest. No so long ago I posted a very long story and one commenter said, ( more or less) that they read it all in one sitting even though it was very long. To me or for me, that is one of the best comments a writer can get. I could reverse the comment and say, they couldn't put the story down till they finished. So at least for that person I accomplished my goal.
I mentioned this before, but since it fits with this thread I will mention it again. There are several programs available for most computers that will read your story out loud back to you. Its a great tool to have, but it don't and won't replace a fresh set of eyes and ears like those of a good Editor.
Now having said all that. Dare I incur the wrath of those who don't agree? Well, its just my pet peeve and I call it (fluff) If you need three paragraphs to tell your reader about a yellow #2 school pencil, I do apologize (to all), but that is fluff to me. "If" I wanted a reader to know that two my characters had sex, all one needs to say could be that "They joined the mile high club," most readers would understand the reference. Granted, I sometimes leave out details that should be there, but likewise don't have to be there for the readers mind to go in the direction I wanted. Yes, some of my stories do have a some (fluff) in them as several commenter have ask for that very thing. It is akin to targeting your audience, your not likely to go to a Country & Western bar, if you want to hear Rock & Roll music. How you write is as important as what you write.
Okay, I'm done now. Thanks to all
Thanks BC....hope I got it right this time...lol
Reluctantly, I volunteer
I use British English, and fear that our American cousins might get cross when I correct their spelling or suggest for example "different FROM" instead of "different THAN".
I have written 3 books, all out of print and outdated now, but they concerned aspects of the Immune System and techniques for investigating aspects of it and for messing it about.
There was also a short book on subsocial behaviour of Oniscoideae (woodlice), but that is even more out of print, though not likely to be outdated, as woodlice have not evolved much in the last 60-odd years since then.
I have written three stories of some possible interest to people who like to read tales told on BCTS, but one vanished in the computer and upset me so much I had not the energy left to write it all again, another is short but totally overtaken by events in real life that make it no longer valid, the third one is very long novel and I love it still, but it was given to two adults and one teenager to read but was returned only partly read with such comments as "Disgusting!", "Complete Rubbish ! People like that do not exist!", and "More like a script for a play, too full of lists, and I cannot see who is actually speaking in some of the conversations. Anyway, not my cup of tea." Ouch, I put a lot into producing this bit of wishful fantasy, and the negative comments hurt. I download it and re-read it sometimes, making tiny changes. I LIKE IT ! Nobody else does though.
Perhaps, one day...
I was recently offered an Advance by a Publisher for my autobiography. I have not accepted yet, for the following reasons:
1) I am not important enough to feel that anyone would be interested in it;
2) I am not about to die, I am only 76, I think / hope that I still have some years left to be able to do some things that might be important and useful enough to be written about, so feel that an Autobiography now would be premature.
3) The money was not enough to make me overlook 1 and 2 !
If someone is brave enough to let me edit their work, I will take them on. I cannot accept any fee for it, but if whoever I take on feels it was worth anything they can send me what they think my efforts were worth to them, if they like, in appreciation. I am sort of retired now, but have to do quite a lot of voluntary work locally, to serve the community I live in, on a tiny island in the Atlantic Ocean.
It will be interesting to see what kind of replies I get.
Briar
Tidying Up
I'll apologize in advance for any spelling/grammar mistakes I may make. I'm bedridden right now so I'm using an older, cranky tablet that'll zig when I want it to zag.
I've had a spot of experience proofreading/copy editing, and the first thing that has to be agreed on is how far the author wants to go vs how far your chosen proofreader/editor can or will go. Putting the issue of new college interns aside, there are some stories I've sent back untouched for various reasons. Why waste my time (I don't make a practice of doing this stuff so my efforts are at N/C) delivering up a well-proofed story when the story is basically garbage to begin with. We had a saying at the paper that some stories looked like they were written in blue pencil and edited with a typewriter.
My best results have been with a writer that allows me to suggest changes along with the proofreading. You know what you wrote, but do the readers? All my suggested changes are done using MS Word so they can easily be incorperated into the story or thrown out. Your story, your decision.
One thing that really bugs me are Brits trying to write American. A lot of words change spelling and usage between the two styles. Ex: Many words are spelt differently in the UK. In American those words look strange when they are spelled that way. If a UK writer wants to write in any of the dialects Americans use they should utilize somebody that normally uses the dialect in question.
The same apply to place names and map details. I know of one British author that has set her plot in the MidWestern/Southweatern U.S. Great story, but her writing shows a complete ignorance of how the states are laid out. Her protagonist blithy drives from Kansas to Arizona in just a few hours. Another time the protagonist drives from Kansas through Oklahoma to arrive in Wichita, again in less than a half day's driving time. Now, I'm going to guess that American writers trying to write British characters set in the U.K. are probably just as bad if not worse.
The point is, just how much does the author want? A proof-reader can deliver up a piece of clean copy with all the various mechanical errors corrected. A good editor can produce the same clean document, with the words reworked so that the story actually says what the author wants to say. The readers will notice this by not noticing it. Flaws can dump a reader straight out of the story, the absence of flaws will have the reader telling everybody how good that story was.
But it really needs to be clear just what the author wants. If you can't articulate what you want done then don't be surprised if what you get doesn't match up with what you expected. If you and the person can't agree then its time to look elsewhere for a better fit. Nobody is at fault, the tenative partners just didn't agree. Shit happens.
They know they can survive