I'm not an author, so this isn't a case of jealousy, in which I begrudge their popularity because I have none. My social capital on this site is zilch. I've posted maybe twice, before. With that disclaimer out of the way, I want to know why so many readers flock to bad writers. Stories full of run-on sentences, poor grammar, misspellings, etc. The types of stories written so whimsically that they're sickening with their lack of focus. 17+ comments? This is some of the most popular stuff out there? I've found all sorts of gems on this site; stories which I'll never forget. The authors were nowhere near so prolific, and actually managed to make each character and story unique. Some authors plop out the same story every month, under a different title. Same types of characters; just a different catalyst for the M2F change.
I'm not naming names. I just can't believe that some authors get so much praise for slapping the same structureless crap out on their keyboard every day, when others are creating stories so good I wish I could erase my memory so I could read them again for the first time.
Not a condemnation of big closet. Just an observation that the most sophomoric writers seem to garner the most praise, and I feel it's a shame.
De gustibus...
Taste is a personal matter. Personally, there are some best seller authors out there that I do not understand the appeal they have for their audiences. I'll even name three of them, Dan Brown, James Paterson and J.K. Rowling. I can't read their stuff, it makes me tired. But they are popular. They must be doing something right because they are satisfying a lot of readers.
Not everyone reads with the same goal in mind. Even if the goal is the same thing, entertainment perhaps, not everyone is entertained by the same thing.
My recommendation; enjoy what you enjoy and show your appreciation to your preferred authors. And let others enjoy the stuff they enjoy.
I have a friend who makes a good living (under several different names) writing the sort of romances in which everyone is constantly jumping into bed with everyone else but it all ends with happiness ever after when the right pair happens to get together. I can't read them, though she is a good writer who knows what she is doing. She can write a 60,000 word novel every 4 to 6 weeks and get paid for it. And she has fans. Since she writes straight, lesbian and gay romance equally well, some of her fans would probably be horrified if they read the wrong story. :)
Some people just want the familiar exploration of a known and loved theme. There are 200 or so stories or chapters posted each month at BCTS, usually plenty for all sorts of tastes.
Hugs,
Erin
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
Really?
If you are perhaps mentioning me, shoot me a message, I'm willing to discuss any shortcomings you have with my writing.
However let me say this outright. Writing first person stream of consciousness style thought, complete with run on sentences and poor grammar isn't as easy as you might think. In fact it's damn hard. I'm proud of the fact that I am one of the few writers I know of that can make it work. People don't think in complete sentences with perfect grammar, and my writing reflects that.
Calling anyone's writing sophomoric, structureless, and unfocused almost demands proof of such concepts. I know I plan mine out. However, you might have a bit of a misconception.
You see all writers have themes that occur in their writing. Every story, the same elements. In the worst case scenario, you find one like Patterson, who literally writes the same book with a different title, every time.
In others, the themes are more subtle and well hidden. Makes for a more enjoyable read.
Not sure where I stand there, but I recognize the trend, and it can be annoying.
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Sigh.
I don't comment much. But here goes...
This kind of comment of yours is exactly why I don't post stories here. All I've ever wanted to do was write stories for fun. Stories that would entertain people. I'm not alone in that. I try not to use run-on sentences. Although, I'm a great fan of using sentence fragments for emphasis. The point is, not one author on this site tries to write poorly.
Your condescension and judgmental attitude aren't helpful. If I do ever post a story on this site, please don't bother to read it. You're not invited. I won't know, since I just added you to my ignore list.
I'm in agreement here too with Sailing Mistress.
Everything is subjective, education varies hugely here as well as language barriers and abilities or disabilities.
As for you Sailing Mistress there's many here that wouldn't mind reading any offering that you'd bring us.
*Great Big Hugs* For SM not the troll.
Bailey Summers
Can I take that as comment No. 18?
How about you write and post something here for nothing, if it's so easy?
Angharad
At least I'm honest about it
And tell everyone that I'm writing a fluff piece and I try not to let my sentences run on and on and try to end my stories in a decent fashion and I write to please myself and I enjoy getting those pesky comments complaining about my run on sentences but do I complain no I just try to do better and figure out where the period is supposed to be Arecee. PS, this is tongue in cheek, period.
I understand the frustration
I can understand the frustration. It can sometimes be disheartening when you post something and see other people get all the comments and kudos. Some people can post 2000 words and automatically get 80 kudos, and others can post 6000 words and barely get 30. There is a reason for this though, popularity is one, but I think the more important thing is building a fan base. There have been people posting on the site for years and their work is trusted. They earned their fans and they get rewarded in kind. Newer authors have to be discovered and build from scratch. I started posting stories on BC in 2002, so I might be one of the old timers on the site. I do have a fan base, I might be one of the people that even have an anti-fan base (there are people who don't like the religious content and avoid my writing, not that I'm hated). You got to build.
I'm in a different boat however. My stories are for sale and on here at the same time. Sometimes I feel like I shoot myself in both feet. People who like my story and can't wait go out and buy it (one of the reasons why I post them) and that means I will lose readers and kudos and comments because they already finished the work. On the other hand, I lose sales of the book because people know that eventually I will post the entire thing on this site. I try to think that it will pay out in reviews, but I don't even have one book with 30 reviews on it and most of those are now from people who don't visit the site.
In the end, I made a deal with myself. I don't think my writing would have evolved to where it is without this site and out of respect of Joyce, I continue to post here (If you notice, I have rare few things elsewhere and nothing substantial). It all comes down to doing what I feel is right.
There are things you have to ask yourself as well. Is your book quality? Is it going to the right audience? Did you post it at the right time? (If you watch the site long enough you get the feel for when people post stories. I post mine at around 1pm EST because I know a popular author posts around 5pm and I want to beat the rush). Is the title appealing? (I use graphics to draw attention to my work).
SO there is my two cents.
Katie Leone (Katie-Leone.com)
Writing is what you do when you put pen to paper, being an author is what you do when you bring words to life
This is about me?
I looked on the front page and I'm the only one with 17 comments. What did I do?
Katie Leone (Katie-Leone.com)
Writing is what you do when you put pen to paper, being an author is what you do when you bring words to life
I don't recall
that you use run-on sentences.
Portia
It takes all kinds to make this world
Some people like great epic works of literature, others prefer Dr. Seuss. What I think you are saying is that you don't understand why the people who like works that you don't like are more prolific in commenting than people who like the same things you do? I have a question for you. Do you comment on EVERY story you read and even moderately like? If not, are you being fair to other readers and writers?
I have written a few stories and posted them here. I have absolutely NO pretentious of being a writer of any skill. I write for my own enjoyment, BUT having said that I freely admit I like to see comments and wish there were more. Would I like to be popular? Would I like to be able to make money from my writing? Unequivocally, YES to both. Do I think that could happen? Let's be honest. [insert huge raspberry.] Besides that, I couldn't even THINK about trying to sell my works when there are SOOOO many great writers (IMHO) here who have freely given me HOURS of pleasure and gripping entertainment with no expectation of recompense, well, MAYBE the hope of praise, but they probably don't even count on that.
So My advice? Read what you like and MAKE SURE - YOU - add to the comment count of the stories you like.
with love,
HER
Once in a while I bare my soul, more often my soles bear me.
In my reading I have found ...
There are some people who are good at writing and there are some people who are good at telling a story. When someone falls into both categories, WELL, THAT person's works are worth reading. (Of course, these judgements are COMPLETELY to personal tastes, as they should be.)
(Me? I'm a fan of neither great literary works NOR Dr. Seuss.)
with love,
HER
Once in a while I bare my soul, more often my soles bear me.
Keep some other things in mind.
The following is Just a few miscellaneous thoughts.
Comments & hits are a bit fickle here and do not always reflect a stories true popularity. People comment/reply on side issues to other commenters and return to a story to read replies. And there are other reasons a page gets refreshed that do not mean it was read again.
An entire story as run on sentences may be poor writing, but if it is part of dialog it may represent the way the character talks.
This site includes a lot of amateur and starting out writers, people learn by doing.
I have read quite a bit of professional stuff, in print, before the advent of Kindle that also have the some of the same "faults" you have noticed here.
And now the important one as too why:
There is a definite a special niche on this site for certain type of stories to be repeated again and again they fill a certain need for both writer and reader. Many of them are a sort of wish fulfillment or fantasy of some type, many of those are quite "Mary Sue" in fact. Others rehash certain issues people here have had in their own lives. And I don't think there is anything wrong with these type of stories, they fulfill a need. If they are not your thing then that is OK too.
To each their own taste!
-
To the authors here:
Don't let that some dislike your work discourage you when other do like it. Everything is like by some while disliked by others.
If some like it then keep producing it!
~Hypatia >i< ..:::
PS. This was not professionally written. :p
run on sentences
Well i thought i would do this as this subject still bugged me so i redid it well I do have a bit of a problem with that I am not a writer and will never be one if my stories are read or not its of no consequence it is just something I do to pass the nights away i don't post much on the stories here because i enjoy them all and show no favoritism that keeps everyone on the same level for me is it my job to rip apart a story that some one had worked hard on or complain on how its written nope i just read and enjoy all here know how to write and don't need my hand in it to tell them how to do it if there are mistakes so what just read as it was written and enjoy end of rant there how was that
earlywriting
earlywrtingwasallrunonsentanceswithoutpunctuationorspacestheydidnotwanttowastetheparchmentneededforthose
:p
Meh fail troll
So... this is a troll. Sadly if you were really concerned about some writers not getting the same amount of praise, you would have suggested that people go read them and praised them. I expect this in wow where trolls are common but here :( *breaks out the troll bane hammer +10* :P
Pay attention to me
I understand rule 1 of this site, but speaking as someone who's trying to learn to write better, I appreciate even negative comments. If you're trying to be nice, send them as a personal message instead, but please let me know if you didn't like one of my stories - I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that most authors here would feel similarly.
I can even get specific, for myself. I recently posted a set of genie stories, and I knew one part (part 2) was weak. I thought I'd covered myself with some verbal gymnastics and it could fly anyway. I'm grateful to the commenters who called me out on that. It shows me not to underestimate readers, and that if I think something's wrong, it probably is and I need to rewrite it.
To the original poster, you might direct your comments to the author you dislike, or start commenting on ones you do like. When I'm short on time, I'll occasionally look for stories that are garnering lots of comments to pick which ones I'll read, so by commenting on ones you like, you're helping that author in multiple ways.
Titania
Lord, what fools these mortals be!
I'm sure you expected to be flamed for this.
Good rule to live by: Praise in public, criticize in private.
Bad rule to live by: If I don't like something, then no one should like it.
.
.
The girl in me. She's always there, always trying to live by her "good rule"... but occasionally failing.
Righters and Why My Arse Aches
The writers on this site have drifted toward a very hard style of writing.
They elect to write serials instead of stand alone stories.
I can't even imagine how they do it. What makes this so hard is that many of them write those serials on the fly, posting each chapter as it is completed.
When I write a story I'm constantly going back and changing things at the beginning. I'm in the middle of a new story and just yesterday decided to add two new chapters . . . at the beginning of the story.
Some of the writing on this site reminds me of the climax of the movie Tootsie when Dustin Hoffman pulls off his wig and frantically tries to supply back-story.
I'm amazed at the quality of writing on this site. It is MUCH, MUCH better than it was ten years ago. But . . . that really doesn't matter. What does matter is that the writer is trying to say something through her story. She might be talking only to herself. That's really her business.
I buy a lot of books. I love books. I love Amazon and my Kindle. I also love bookstores. I especially love bookstores that are intimate, about 3,000 titles. Of those 3,000 titles there are probably less than 100 that interest me -- and maybe out of those 100 I will buy 10 books. Does that mean the other 2,990 books are garbage? To me . . . yes, but not to the world.
I agree with what Erin said, but would add John Grisham to her list of horrible writers who have made millions. I love his books, but if I were to edit them it would be a Herculean task. His books still fly off shelves. I've bought almost all of them. He's a great storyteller.
Do terrible stories and authors receive acclaim here? Truer words were never spoken. Theme matters a lot. If you want to get positive reviews your protagonist should be younger and transsexual, not "merely" a crossdresser. If you want to receive a lot of reads, write forced fem, but don't expect to get many reviews. Nationality of the author does make a difference. BC has a huge UK readership. I have a few very loyal fans from across the pond, but as a rule I rarely receive comments from more than a very few of that bunch. If I do receive comments from them they're stilted or negative. . .except for those few who are wonderful. I find it strange that a few love my work and the majority apparently can't stand it . . . or me.
I've been here longer than almost anyone other than Erin. I love Erin like a sister. She makes do with a system that she's struggled with over the years. She's tried many things over the years and what we have today seems about as good as it gets. The dynamics of comments and kudos are strange...as are the votes for the story contests. My guess is that less than 5% of those who read stories here leave comments. My further guess is that a slightly larger percentage leave a kudos. Approval gestures are not a true refection of the entire reading set.
The other day a prolific writer tossed out a particularly putrid piece of offal and received more kudos than I've received for anything I've ever written. I'm very proud of http://bigclosetr.us/topshelf/fiction/21855/swifter-higher-s... yet it only received 76 kudos which doesn't compare to what others receive. I would be lying if I said that doesn't hurt, but it would hurt much worse to quit writing. I need this outlet, and I suspect many others do as well.
Big Closet is a great place for readers and writers. I appreciate your remarks. I don't think you're a troll. I think you're a person who cares, who wonders why things are as they are. My guess is there are dozens of authors on this site who ask themselves the very same questions.
My grandmother was a sweet lady. She did amazing things that made us love her. She was also brutally honest. When we whined to her about things that were at the end of day inconsequential she would ask "Does your arse ached, too?"
Crappy actresses win Emmy's and Oscar's. Really horrible songs fill arenas with screaming fans. I could go on, but my arse is beginning to ache.
Jill
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
Another thought on "Kudos" & "Comments".
I visited this and read stories here for nearly a year before I actually went and made an account. Some readers may never do so due to the nature of the the site, topic wise that is. I think reasons why would be self evident if anyone thinks about it.
Hmm.
I'm happy if I receive 70+ kudos. I almost never do.
And I posted yesterday....yet no messages are in my inbox. I must assume therefore I'm doing something right...?
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If you appreciate my tales, please consider supporting me on Patreon so that I may continue:
https://www.patreon.com/Nagrij
70 Kudos?
I never have in over 100 entries; however, as I seldom write for the mainstream of readers here, that is to be expected. How do I feel about what I've posted here? Better each time I go back and read my works.
Portia
Good writting = personal Taste
Like any other art form the enjoyment or lack there of, is totally based on an individuals taste. Using my self as an example until I was introduced to William Shakespeare, read out loud his works appeared to be a marsh with no way through it.
When I finally was able to hear his words spoken I then understood what all the fuss was about. Hemingway and Twain were not known for there grammar. But for how people spoke and expressed them selves.
Look over the library we have amassed here, and pick out those stories which move you. The voloumn to the right or left will still be there for some one else to read. That is how public libraries work. Your home library will house those tomes light or heavy in expression that you chose to have around you.
" My habits protect me but will probably assassinate you." Mark Twain
With those with open eyes the world reads like a book
Disagree
I'm very wary of what the impact of the things I post are on others because I don't want to hurt someone. I don't want to drive them away from writing. The world is a harsh place out there, so if a writer here can find shelter and write a story that brings enjoyment to just one reader then surely that's a good thing? We can all name writers who have left here or changed how/what they post as a result of unwanted and unasked for negative feedback.
It's all too easy for one critical comment to snowball into two, three and so on and before long BC isn't the sort of site where Erin's Rule 1 prevails but more akin to the comments section of Youtube. I think that's the sort of bear pit we'd all like to avoid. If we lose the spirit of Rule 1, we lose an important part of what makes BC special. I'd hate to see that which is why I disagree with the point of view that started this thread.
We've been here before. People complaining that some writers never finish stories or everyone is writing a particular theme rather than the theme they like or critiquing the use of grammar by writers. All it does is make some people feel self-righteous and some people upset. If you want to ensure that the sorts of stories you want get 17+ comments then the best way to start is by posting a comment on a story you like.
Readers are going to read the stories that they want to read. It's just the way it is.
"Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it."