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I see a lot of heat being generated about the "BC" community. As I see it there are a couple of hundred people who contribute to this site either as authors or as bloggers or as commentors or all three. There is also a silent group who must enjoy what goes on here. I am a recent joiner and enthusiastic participant in BC matters and I love the stories and the blogs and the comments, but I do not love the preaching of the so-called GLBT agenda. I am not "G" and I am not"L" and I am not "B". I am certainly "T" and I will always try to protect and promote the interests of TG/TS/TV people, but, quite frankly, I don't care that much about the others, and I don't think they care that much about us. I would never try to harm them, but, think about it, when did we ever get any support from the gay community. We are a group of disparate individuals with different points of view and different agendas. We have something lovely going here. Look at the beautiful stories and comments (e.g. EAFOAB). Please, let's not spoil it for some ideological fantasies.OK, go ahead and crucify me,
I care,
Joanne
Comments
The ENDA
Would be a recent example of an answer to your implied question, "when did we ever get any support from the gay community?"
HUNDREDS of Gay, Gay-Lesbian, GLB, and GLBT groups nationwide refused to support the non-inclusive version of the proposed legislation that made the Employment Non-Discrimination Act cover GLB, but not the T. I'd say refusing to support such a document even when it would be beneficial for "them" unless it covered "us" too would be getting support from the gay community.
That's one hand nailed
You asked for it.
TV's, TS's and TG's were often thought of as gay to begin with. Now we know that's not true. Preference is not associated to gender, I mean look at those who like both. Anyway, were it not for the gay community or pressure groups, call them what you will, there would be little or nothing for the T element.
I think community is derived from Commune. To commune means a group of persons together in one place for one, or a body of people or families living together and sharing everything, for another.
I don't know whether everyone in this place shares everything, but it is certainly a gathering of like-minded people, some of whom are more sharing than others, but essentially, I would agree that this is a community.
I would imagine too that some are gay (if not the members, then some of the visitors), some are lesbian - I know I am. The fact I'm wrapped in a man's body is not my fault. Some are bisexual. Mostly, they or we are TG to one degree or another, so I think that's all the letters of the acronym.
There are arguments. There is bickering, but by and large, this is the friendliest place I have seen of its nature, so idealogical it maybe, but fantasy? Definitely not.
NB
BigCloset is special
as a community. Its because several of us do care and we try to provide a home for us all. Im TG in IS/TG, I dont have an agenda other than keeping BC afloat and available as home to all of us. I go out of my way and bend over backwards to keep it so. It is special because something like this does not exist elsewhere. I bridge BigCloset TopShelf and the Gabyzone Communities and live between both. I agree with you that no point is worth the destruction of this home for us all. and that is the point I'll defend.
BigCloset TopShelf
Big Closet And The Gabyzone Are Both Special To Me
I have met many new and wonderful friends while here and have seen this site grow into a place where new authors have posted new stories.
I want to see Big Closet/Top Shelf and Gabyzone become a true family community where we don't need Sephrena to act as our Big Sister or Mother and spank us when we are bad.
But we still need her special gifts to help us be better people. That is why I ask everybody to stop and think about what they write in a log or comment.
In one of my blogs, I received both positive and negative comments. But i knew that would happen and none of them attacked me, they just expressed their opinion. THAT is the way a comment is supposed to be.
May Your Light Forever Shine
May Your Light Forever Shine
I have similiar feelings
Sometimes I'll mention them here but I try not to be disruptive.Mostly I take my views to yahoo answers or a TS womens group I belong to.I don't blame the lgb instead I blame some from within our own community.As ts women we have fought so that people could understand that gender is seperate from sexuality and that has moved us forward allowing us to amend our birth certificates become married and do many of the things we should be allowed to do as the women or men we are.Now we have some who are combining the two and using their transexuality or both instead of claiming their lesbian or gay title.The whole point of transition is to become congruent in ones gender.If your lesbian and post op you are a lesbian with a TS past not a lesbian with a TS future.I support gay marriage but I see this issue equally effecting both TS and Gay rights negatively.I do identify as heterosexual Amy
Clarify?
You said:
If your[sic] lesbian and post op you are a lesbian with a TS past not a lesbian with a TS future.[sic]
Are you saying that once you've had surgery, you're no longer supposed to be or welcomed in the TG community?
What about those of us that are TG and don't plan on surgery?
I'm intersexed. I don't need surgery, I was raised as a boy, but I am female -- I have a period, I've been pregnant, etc. I am also rambunctiously lesbian. So, I have to "choose sides" and only support one or the other issue?
Now, rebuttal of a point... you said:
As ts women we have fought so that people could understand that gender is seperate[sic] from sexuality and that has moved us forward allowing us to amend our birth certificates become married and do many of the things we should be allowed to do as the women or men we are.[sic]
Except where those things aren't allowed for a TS. The fact is, we as Trans-activists have had to ride the coattails of the GLB movement because the public thought includes us in "their" group. Whether we personally agree that TG and GLB are related (I do not, by the way), in order to have achieved any of the laudable goals you mentioned, we had to have help. Spurning those friendships that were forged when we were trying to achieve something is rather... cavalier, don't you think? I am Transgender, and I am a lesbian. Since there are many organizations that already strive toward goals for both, why is it so imperative to separate the two so distinctly that one must be forsaken for the sake (no pun intended) of the other?
I dont think she meant it the way you are taking it
Edeyn. I think she means it as she sees it as something that a lot of us do. Like when we reach womanhood, physically some of us stealth and forget our origins, or at least deny them. Some just lose focus once the dream is achieved. I dont think she meant that line maliciously either. She means that one needs to focus on the here and now with a bright future to go into. Focusing on the past is bad and is not productive.
BigCloset TopShelf
Let me clarify
First I don't identify as TG it is a put down to a TS woman just like calling a heterosexual crossdresser a TS would be.To understand why you would have to know the origins of the term tg who invented it and why and to who the term was intentioned to apply to.Might I suggest googling Virginia Price if your interested in learning about that.Might I also suggest looking up the standards of care and to whom the term transexual accuratly applys to.Secondly I believe most of my rights have come threw the medical community and not the gay community.It was threw the correction of birth defects at birth that are ability to correct our birth certificate came without a letter of proof of GRS most if not all states won't allow you to do it.If you check the origins of who has pushed for TS/TG laws it is almost always TS/TG groups the gay community sometimes offers support.You will also find that if you look no where will you find me oposing gay rights.As someone who identifys as a heterosexual adult believe me that gay men and ts women do not make a relationship that works.Again as I have stated I'm expressing my opinion and what I have learned in my journey of life as a TS woman and do not wish to create waves.Amy
Where it came from
And how it is commonly used don't necessarily have to coincide. Have you never heard of reclaiming a term?
The very essence of TG is the roots: trans (crossing) gender. It works quite well as an umbrella term.
As for the rest of your "clarification" it really didn't. I don't mean to offend, but... I'm not seeing anything there that's backed up as, or even generally accepted as, fact.
How you choose to identify is up to you, but don't expect others to change how they have come to do so by forcing your own measuring stick to be used.
I don't understand how calling a transsexual woman "transgendered" is a put down. Also, most heterosexual crossdressers I've ever met wouldn't be offended at being called transsexual, they would view it as an opportunity to educate the person who used the incorrect term as to the difference.
The standards of care -- well that depends on which ones you're using. There are many variations called simply "the standards of care" by many organizations. Your belief is your belief and my belief is my belief, and we're allowed to have our beliefs even if they fly in the face of established facts.
For example, you talk about the medical community making it possible to have a corrected birth certificate for birth defects? Not so in my state, apparently. I was declared male at birth. By the time that it was realized that female would have been more appropriate (when I had my period and my breasts started to fill out), it was more than 40 business days and no changes to my birth certificate can be made without proof of surgery. Hnh. I don't need surgery. Doesn't matter, without that proof, I am legally male. I even sent them a copy of the doctor's report when I got confirmation that I was pregnant. Doesn't matter. To the state of my birth, I am male.
Of course gay men and TS women don't make a relationship. Gay men aren't attracted to women of any flavor. If they were, they would be bisexual.
Also, it would be easier to read your posts if you would at least put a space after periods at the end of sentences... and might I suggest a refresher course on homonyms.
many TS's dislike the use of the term transgender
First reclaiming a term is when you were the first to use it so if that's the case it belongs to heterosexual crossdressers and gays.If I am so wrong in my assumption that most of my rights have come from the medical community show me how.It's common knowledge that homosexuality was considered a mental condition until 1974 so even they have gained rights from when they were delisted as a mental condition by the medical community.If the medical community hadn't been involved in either of these situations where do you think we'd be now both gay and TS.It's thru the medical and scientific communitys that the old superstitions about things are debunked then thru how we communicate with who we know or are telling about our experience.I don't hold the gatekeeper mentality but I do agree things could be better especially with insurance coverage.Transgender is a term that doesn't give the separation of needs that is necessary.A heterosexual crossdressers needs vary from those of a Ts on a physical as well as on a mental level.A gay transvestite is just that a gay man who uses womens clothes to pick up men some may have hormonal or surgical modification of the breasts and choose to live as women but they have no desire to be completely female.Only the TS has the need to feel complete and that is by the Harry Benjamin standards of care the only internationally recognized ones by all the major medical and phsycological organizations.When we lump everyone together needs aren't met, confusion about the differences is encouraged and rights are lost.If you don't believe me take a good look around today if a heterosexual crossdresser says their tg it's likely someone will assume they want a sexchange,if someone says their a transexual someone will assume their a crossdresser I see it all the time on yahoo answers and other places.I have no problem with the medical community poking and prodding me to see why I'm transexual so why shouldn't others who are differently oriented to like crossdressers and tv's.My position is that transexuals should be concentrating on changing the laws in states that don't allow an amendment on birth sex everything else comes later or can be settled at election time.Transexuals are reclaiming a term it's transexual from everyone who use's it improperly to describe themselves.I like my homonyms by the way and I support their rights as well.Lol Amy Disclaimer due to the mature content of this discussion parental guidence is recomended.None of Amy's views are intended to cause ill will or rioting but are simply her opinions gained thru her experiences in the TS/Tg community.Have a great day and please reply in a courteous way if unintentionally offended.
I think I can justifiably feel offended
I'm a gay man and a transvestite, and I can assure you that I do not 'use women's clothes to pick up men'. If anything my transvestism is a bar to the 'gay community, many of whom can be as bigoted towards me as the 'heterosexual community', and it seems the 'tg community' too.
I've nothing but admiration for people who are TS and have the courage, and strength, to transition, so it's a slap in the face when they turn around and wholly dissociate themselves from me. I may not have trod the hardest road, but I've had obstacles to overcome.
my apology's
What I meant to say shouldn't have been offensive to you but how I said it was.I do know that doing drag is actually pretty much looked down upon by some in the gay community.I have heard some gay guys make some pretty crude remarks about it and I should have known better.Again my apologys and I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings or anyone else's.Amy
mine's a G & T
and frankly I've been made to feel like an outcast on both sides of that equation (I tried to address part of it in 'Dichotomy'). However, having a foot in two camps (no pun intended) has let me see that prejudice directed from 'outside' is indiscriminate - most of those who hate one category, hate all... we're just different shades of 'them'.
I like fags and dykes!
Back when it was just the "gay & lesbian" community I sometimes heard the argument that there could be no real common ground between the two. Gay men were still (boo! hiss!) men, with all the privelege and wanton selfish sexuality of men, lesbians were .......... whatever the argument was. My first little apartment back in the early 70's was in a building full of yong feminists, mostly lesbian. God, that was fun! For the better part of a year I was the only male, and these supposed "man hating bra burners" really made me feel at home, listened to and supported me. Well not all, but most of the women had gay male friends (which is what I identified as at the time) and even straight male friends; They were and seemed to have a lot more fun than the embattled polemicists ........ I LIKE the designation LGBT. It's a nice wide target, I figure I fit in there somewhere. Community is like paper money, it only has meaning or value to the extent that people believe in it. When it comes to categorizing groups there are lumpers and there are splitters, and I've always been more of a lumper. This is no more a fantasy than the fantasy of a hundred irreconcileably alien tiny tribes with nothing in common. Yes, some gays want to split the T off from the LGB, but that's their problem, and not a reason to join them in their partisan parsimony...... Here at BCTS we have tv's, ts's and that vague catch-all catagory tg. Following splitter logic this should not work at all. When I first started reading and posting here I didn't know squat about straight transvestites. To be honest it seemed kind of weird to me, that someone would want to go back and forth like that, and not be at war with their male physiognomy on some deep level. Well now I count many tv's as my dearest friends, and I kind of get what they're about. I have learned something from the inclusiveness of this site that I would not have learned from a more exclusive ts-only site (if it would even let me in since for reasons of age and passability I {sigh} have no plans to transition...). This is the value of that corny "pc" word DIVERSITY. I suppose by my own reasoning I should include the entire human race, maybe the whole damn biosphere as my community. And on my good days I do...
~~~deludedly yours, LAIKA
We now return to our regular programming:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTl00248Z48
.
FWIW
Back in the earlier AOL days, when it as more a place to go to then an Internet access, it was the Gay and Lesbian community there that gave a home to the TV/TS group and allowed us to set up our forums and story boards under their umbrella. Mind you, this was just post the Q-Link dialup BBS days for me, and I wasn't any part of the organization (if it can be called such) that was running the TV/TS end; so I only have fallible memory to go by. But the point was made that G/L people had accepted us when we had to find a "sponsor", and for that I am grateful.
Do all Gays and Lesbians accept the TV/TS people? No, of course not. Does a majority accept us? I think so. In any case it does us no good to splinter apart, no matter what some may say. In the long run we are all going in the same direction, on the same road.
Karen J.
"Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose"
Janis Joplin
"Life is not measured by the breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.”
George Carlin
Trans identity and sexual orientation
Perspective, please!
There is so much EFFORT put into separating "gender identity" and "sexual orientation."
How about we think instead about what the words really mean. Like to people who hear them, speak them, and understand them.
A transgendered person who has a sexual relationship with another person and is *open* (honest, talks about, dresses, shows, whatever) about their gender identity, is NOT in a "straight" sexual relationship. By "straight" I mean what gawd-fearin', regular, everyday, Western-acculturated people *think* is "heterosexual."
A complementary set of penis and vagina does NOT make a relationship traditionally heterosexual. *Looking* like you and your partner have such a set of genitals doesn't either.
Traditional interpretation of "heterosexual relationship" is "born-a-woman lying with born-a-man, both dressed and appearing as contemporary, conventional man and woman."
A traditional definition of "heterosexual person" would *not* include any cross-dressing, GRS, presenting as the opposite sex or gender, or presenting a mix of gender cues and appearances. And I *know* this is ignorant mixing of gender and sexual orientations, but it's what MOST people THINK!
Transgendered people break a LOT of conventional definitions of "straight," whoever and however they love.
But love - and human rights, liberty and *safety* - are goals every person hopes to achieve.
Which is why I'm proud to associate with my GLBT friends, and accept their support in striving for those goals, even as I try to support them.
Because I *am* them. And they are me. At least so far as most people think.
Michelle
A bit too broad
of a definition for me.
You said:
A complementary set of penis and vagina does NOT make a relationship traditionally heterosexual. *Looking* like you and your partner have such a set of genitals doesn't either.
It's the second sentence that give me pause. I have to ask if you mean it like it reads to me, that is: even a post-op transsexual doesn't count as the gender that has been moved into for purposes of interpreting gay or straight.
If that is how you meant that... why not? Because of chromosomal issues? Because that's not how one started?
I to was disturbed by this
As a group thrown under the TG banner I do not think it is devisive to recognize our differences.I do believe statements like the one Edeyn pointed out do have a devisive effect.Saying I'm not a crossdresser or a transvestite doesn't mean I don't support them it just says I'm here for different reasons.But attacking things that make us different and saying see you really are the same because, shouldn't be a goal any of us strive for.Amy
What I think Michelle meant...
...was that she wasn't offering her opinion on what such terms meant but giving her view on what "mainstream" society thinks the terms mean.
And I think she's right. To most people with little to no experience of LGBT issues, no one in that "shotgun" category (including intersexed individuals), qualifies as "straight" or "heterosexual". Regardless of any rational definition of those terms, emotionally they mean "like me and my spouse/lover" to most people. It's not about what they should mean but what they mean to most people outside the almost jargon-like use of sex researchers, medial doctors and actual people involved in LGBT interactions. Chromosomes and surgical status are irrelevant to the emotions.
This is not to say that most people in the sex and gender mainstream can't understand the issues; many of them do because of having LGBT friends or relatives or because of studying the issues in relation to their own field of work. But it takes effort and thought to overcome the emotional comfort of "folks like me" and a lot of people are not going to put forth that effort without a reason to do so. Unfortunately, some people in positions to influence thought and opinion choose to reinforce or even inflame prejudice, either through their own ignorance, apathy, malice or greed.
Things are better than they were. Many areas around the USA and the world now have laws to protect the expression of sexual preference or gender identity and the recognition that problems exist is even wider. I like to think that having a BigCloset as a safe and friendly place to read, write and discuss transgender fiction is part of the solution.
Not so many years ago, jokes about women and ethnic minorities were common and no one thought much about them. Now the jokes still exist but people are more thoughtful about telling them and they frequently have an ironic edge instead of a cruel one. Jokes about gays, lesbians and transfolk are moving in that direction, too. Humor is the pulse of a society in many ways and what people are willing to laugh at says something about the relationships between different parts of that society.
Here are some jokes:
How many straights does it take to screw in a light bulb? -- Just two, they only screw in pairs.
How many gay men does it take to screw in a light bulb? -- How big is the light bulb?
How many lesbians does it take to screw in a light bulb? -- Screw that, let's take in a movie.
How many bisexuals does it take to screw in a light bulb? -- Is this my lightbulb or yours?
How many transvestites does it take to screw in a light bulb? -- In these heels?
How many post-op transexuals does it take to screw in a light bulb? -- For $26,000 this must be some lightbulb.
Each of those jokes makes fun of some supposed quality that all or most members of the set have. Stereotypes, right? Prejudice. But because of the joke, people actually think, "Well, that's sort of but not really true. Gary at work is gay and he's not at all promiscuous or Joe comes to the bar in drag as 'Josephine' sometimes but she's not really vain or I know Penelope used to be a guy but she doesn't seem at all nutty or obsessed."
Human differences in these areas are becoming foibles instead of aberrations, however slow the process is.
Hugs to all,
Erin
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
What Erin said... and gender heresy, besides
Erin said : "What I think Michelle (me) meant .. was that she wasn't offering her opinion on what such terms meant but giving her view on what "mainstream" society thinks the terms mean."
Yup.
Thanks, Erin.
Also, I'm transsexual (post-op), transgendered (differently gendered) and a cross-dresser (both ways, and I include that in transgendered, but I mention it because lots don't include it). I'm bi, and a transwoman and happy to admit to 20-odd years of male heritage, too. Some of my most cherished support has come from the gay male and lesbian communities; even when some of their members didn't understand gender differences, they usually supported my/our right and need to self-define my gender and sexuality.
This is a *great* little thread of conversation!
Oh, and TONS of mainstream peeps are learning that gender is different then gay/lesbian/etc...
Now, I wish trans-people would consider the idea that having a *gender* difference AUTOMATICALLY includes *sexuality* difference. My ex used to say "No one is queerer than the partner of a transsexual." After all, she went from straight to lesbian... without changing sex partners... OR preference.
Michelle
well geez
Thanks for ruining my chances for getting a date tonight. Lol Amy
Dates!? Amy!
But.. but... this opens up the dating to *everyone!!*
When people insist I declare my orientation, I say, "If I like you, and you like me? That's it."
Thanks *so* much for this topic!
Michelle
Where's Erin or Sephy when you need them?
To explain what you meant?What I meant to say is thanks for scaring every straight identifying male away by telling them there's nothing queerer then someone who goes out with TS or tg.Brave maybe if they can put up with the hormones.Lol Amy
I think you missed the point, Edyen
I did not read it that way. The way I read it was that after the sentence you objected to, is the statement:
"And I *know* this is ignorant mixing of gender and sexual orientations, but it's what MOST people THINK!"
I think that if you look at the sentence as one sentence among several paragraphs of 'definitions', it is merely one more statement with which Michelle did not, ( and most of us do not), agree.
Holly
One of the most difficult things to give away is kindness.
It usually comes back to you.
Holly
Kind of simple but...
I agree Michelle. I would even put more simply. There are Heterosexual and then there are the perverts. It's kind of simple but so are most people. Gay and Lesbians have gone up in popularity, that is not as despised as others the majority lumps us with. From the "simple" point of view guys who dress Fem are just trying to peek at the real women in the restroom or other perverted reasons. I for one object to being lumped not with the gays, lesbians, and bi's but with the child molesters, rapists, and other criminals. Remember that I'm talking about the common people and they like things simple. Black or white and no grays.
Slowly we are making progress because of education and perhaps riding on the coattails of our more verbal and acceptable to the masses gay and lesbian, brothers and sisters.
The good news are more kids with gender problems are getting treatment now. I pray for the day when our society is more tolerant and compassionate. There are many people out there in the world who are already there, but I DON'T believe that as a whole our society is even close.
Not trying to offend, but some thoughts.
hugs!
grover
Has A Hetrosexual Male, Let Me Say That I Have Many Friends Here
I have met many authors here and have come to think of them as friends. I have seen how Erin and Sephrena have done their best to make Big Closet/Top Shelf a Community of caring friends.
Me, I celebrate the many differences that have been seen here and hope that the authors feel safe in posting blogs, stories and comments. here.
May Your Light Forever Shine.
May Your Light Forever Shine
This community ...
... at its absolute base, is a group of people who, are interested in TG fiction, (likely) a sizable group of TG/CD folks who just want to hang out and converse with those who have similar interests and backgrounds, and others: a few lesbians for sure, some straight guys like me, and who knows who else. And that's just fine: a good time can be had by all and I don't think anybody cares about what orientation anyone is. Honestly, I don't even think it becomes an issue unless someone states that we are this or that.
The vast majority of arguments around here have not been GLBT oriented at all. They've had to do with literary critiques (hurt feelings), politics, and some arguments that start when smart people who are used to winning arguments get into trouble, or when shady debate techniques are used with the wrong person.
Personally, I think this site is a bit too much Pollyanna. I'd like to see where a few of these arguments go before they are cut off and the offenders "spanked," but I don't run it, and the site philosophy is the right of the owner.
Aardvark
"Happiness is when what you think, what you say, and what you do are in harmony."
Mahatma Gandhi
"Happiness is when what you think, what you say, and what you do are in harmony."
Mahatma Gandhi
The Sad Thing
People are so hung up on labels...everything needs to be quantified and indentified and put into it's category. GLB or T are all forms of what are considered "alternative lifestyles" (another label). Instead of silly infighting, there should be a common cause for equal rights for all regardless of everything.
All that should matter on an individual level is that YOU know who and what you are and are comfortable with it...and if not working on finding a way to become comfortable.
If a T person is accosted for being T, isn't it really different then me being persecuted for being a Jew? If 2 men/women are attacked for PDA, is that any different than a non-white person being attacked for looking different?
Labels are a terrible way to justify things that people do to each other.
Hugs to all!!
Alexis
Hey Bob Isn't this a Great Chat
Bob,
See we can play nice in the sand box. We might get a little sand in our eyes, but we can play nice. Wonderful sentiments - everyone.
Please keep the Chat Room open.
As always,
Dru
As always,
Dru
Another Two Cents Worth...
Or, with inflation, perhaps a whole lot less...
A straight man walked into a lesbian bar, and asked the gay male bartender if crossdressers were welcome there. This was my first personal exposure to the LGBT community, and it IS a community.
It's a community because the people in it accept each other for who they are. Unlike the wider society, they don't reject each other's right to exist and live their own lives and find their own happiness. It's a community because its members are very aware that they are under attack from forces outside it, and are politically astute enough to realize that they have common cause in seeking civil rights. Ridding society of discrimination based on sexual identity and preference seems to be a winning formula for everyone.
I'm proud to be a member of the LGBTQ Concerns Committee of my local Quaker meeting. I'm proud to be working for gay rights within the wider organization, which is not as accepting as our meeting is.
TG TS IS CD TV
One thing I have noticed in the community of those who share both genders is that we are divided amongst our selves. Where is the fine line that is the decisiveness of who we are. We all share the desire of femininity.
I was born intersexed, but did not know until I was 50. When I first donned a feminine article of clothing I knew of no names or titles bestowed upon a boy who thinks like a girl and wants to express his femininity. The only name that seemed to be bantered about was "queer"
If we want to be known we have to drop the inside bickering, we have to find the common ground we all share and work on organizing from there. Until then we will be left out, dismissed as being something we aren't and infighting until the world comes to an end
Jill Micayla
Jill Micayla
May you have a wonderful today and a better tomorrow
Jill Micayla
Be kinder than necessary,Because everyone you meet
Is fighting some kind of battle.
Some Thoughts...
One: This is a community which is community of the wider world, some of the people here are also members of other communities, myself I'm a member of the MMO community, the dual-boxing community and a couple of others. I'm also a member of the farming community (Ni Hao). It would be sad indeed if our little section of the global community was to closed off like some sort of really strict monastary luckily we aren't.
Two: Any community can be wrecked by people from the inside or the outside, those people can support the aims of the community but by behaving badly can easily wreck something good. Seldom is a whole community the cause of distress... well unless its something like KKK or similar.
Three: Why do labels matter? I'm GC if you want a label, its meaningless I expect to most of you, as most of your labels are meaningless to me. (Note: I'm not saying I don't understand what TV/CD/IS/TG/etc means.) Even within one label the meaning is completely all over the place. Some CD for instance are CDers due to the fact they wear alternate clothing for fetish reasons, others because they like the fabric or color or because they identify with a female persona... and those are just the ones I can think of now.
Two people who are both TG/TS are probably there for completely different reasons, though the end result may indeed be the same. How the feel and live in the end may well be different.
Labels are just a meaningless way of identifying people.
To paraphrase some guy that kept getting chased by a large white ball: "I am more than just a label."
BTW my label is simple I'm Gender Confused, that is I know what I should be but am not that, I know what I should be wearing but don't so as to avoid ridicule, and I know who I should be but am not because its not that easy (is anything?). My sexuality is duality ;) or Bi, sometimes but I can't honestly remember the last time I saw someone of the same sex who I liked (sexually). But I do enjoy my mental trysts...
STOP!!!
Sorry rambling again.
The Legendary Lost Ninja
Lables & divisions.....
It's easy to create false divisions with labels; it happens in all communities. As long as we keep in mind that labels are just an attempt to make sense of our experiences and the world around us, to communicate, then we're' okay. It's when we forget that the word is an invention, an attempt to describe the reality we see, and not the reality itself, that we get caught up and lose our way. We divide and destruct from within.
In my experience this is not strictly a GLBT & E thing, but something common to all communities. One of the beautiful things about an online community is that we don't often have visual distractions, we judge each other on our words. Since language, especially written language, is a humanly imperfect thing, I doubt that we'll ever express ourselves 100% perfectly, but then again, that's kinda the fun part of it, isn't it? Trying to gain glimpses into each other's universes....
As you may have guessed, I like to travel - but I don't like to be a tourist. I like to go to a place and camp out there, so to speak, getting to really know the community there as best as I can in the short time I'm there. Every GLBT & E community that I've ever been part of has had the same issue going on, to differing extents, about the unity of their community; some have dealt with it well thru open dialog, as BC seems to be doing. Others have not and tended to be dysfunctional, uncomfortable places to be where sectarianism came to the fore and all fell apart. We're all in this together, so although we must realize that we have differences if we are to be honest, it is ...comforting?... to see that we can acknowledge this without forgetting how much we share in common.
He conquers who endures. ~ Persius