Not if you're an atheist it isn't.
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Comments
Ditto
I've been pretty uncomfortable with the amount of religous-themed commentary and such lately.
“When a clown moves into a palace, he doesn’t become a king. The palace becomes a circus.” - Turkish Proverb
It isn't the religiosity, but
It isn't the religiosity, but you feel you can't speak out against it. Like the religious can say what they like, but we have to watch every word we say. That isn't freedom.
Speaking out.
I know two authors who have not hesitated to speak out against my belief, and we are friends.
True friendship
True friendship can transcend all things.
D. Eden
Dum Vivimus, Vivamus
In the words of Thomas Jefferson......
"One man's rights end when they infringe upon another's."
That works both ways - we each have the right to believe or not as we so choose. Myself, I choose belief. I have a masters degree in engineering, and have probably forgotten more science than most of you ever learned. I have been through combat and seen the evils that we write upon each other and this world up close and personal. I've been shot at, and been wounded twice. I have killed in person, and caused the deaths of hundreds through the use of my skills and talents.
Throughout all of that, and with all of the knowledge I have of the universe, I still choose to believe. I believe because even with all the misery I have seen, the beauty of a single flower growing up out of the destruction I have wrought still fills me with hope.
Having said that, I will defend to the death your right to not believe, and I have never tried to force my beliefs on anyone else. I simply ask the same from the non-believers.
Dallas
D. Eden
Dum Vivimus, Vivamus
I do not agree
I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it.
Voltaire
Look, if my being openly Christian, even a fundamentalist Christian offends anyone I apologize. It is however who I am as much as being trans.
As a Christian, I too have things that offend me. When ever I see some mention Wicca or proudly proclaim their association with such, due to my believe, I find that offensive. OK, that said, I remind myself of the quote above. The Wicca have a right to say what they want.
There have been other, non Christian religions openly talked about here, do they also offend an atheist?
I have to ask: How does the mention of a mythical, all powerful entity offend? I mean, if God doesn't exist, how can my talking about Him or praying to him be offensive?
As for being offended, I find it a bit offensive that we are even having this discussion.
Hugs
Patricia
Happiness is being all dressed up and HAVING some place to go.
Semper in femineo gerunt
Ich bin eine Mann
So what kind of
themes do you find uncomfortable with?
People say, "You don't know what you had until it's gone." Very true, but also equally true is, "You don't know what you've been missing until is arrives."
Beliefs
We all have beliefs, but we all have different perspectives.
Hugs, Fran
That's the point, we don't
That's the point, we don't all have beliefs. I don't believe in anything. I live my life according to a series of best guesses. They include the working hypothesis that the sun will rise in the east tomorrow because I can't conceive of a force that would cause it to change its course - and neither can you.
Pompous bovine excreta
Everyone believes in something. You believe that your stance regarding religion is correct if nothing else, or we would not be having this conversation.
To state anything otherwise is childish.
If someone wishes to speak of their beliefs, or lack thereof, we should all be happy to let them do it. After all, we all have the right to ignore them if we so choose. No one forces anyone to here to do anything against their will.
Dallas
D. Eden
Dum Vivimus, Vivamus
Do you believe
What you are saying?
Just to clarify, it would be a sudden stop in Earth's rotation on it's axis (We can't stop, it's too dangerous, we have to slow down first) It comes to a sudden halt) that would prevent the Sun as it appeared eight minutes prior from coming into view over the eastern horizon. Just saying. I've come to believe that based on extensive testing and re-testing of observations and measurements conducted over centuries proving that we are not the center of the solar system.
Sorry, don't mean to nit pick.
People say, "You don't know what you had until it's gone." Very true, but also equally true is, "You don't know what you've been missing until is arrives."
Athiests
Before this gets to a flame war, there are numbers of Atheists here and I am friends with some of them. We are mutually respectful of each others views. And I actually prefer talking to some of them over certain people of faith. However, if something comes up that deals with faith, I am not reticent to discuss it. And often my Atheist friends will discuss these matters with me.
No one told you not to say and talk about being Atheist. No one has said to me, not to talk about being of faith. If a subject is not comfortable to you maybe you could just stand down?
Gwendolyn
Everyone who posts on this
Everyone who posts on this site is my friend for life. We may disagree on many subjects, but that never changes.
Has this been a problem recently?
I'll admit I haven't been paying as much attention to the site as normal lately, but I've never seen a major problem with those who were Atheist here on the site. Or Wiccan, which applies to me, or Catholic (outside the normal barbs,) or any other religion, really.
Well, outside outright Christianity, which has had more than one major problem with people bashing stories in comments and blogs due to their religious content.
True, there isn't a whole heckuva lot of atheist content, but that's easy to change, isn't it?
Melanie E.
From out of the wilderness.....
Speaks the voice of reason. Thank you Melanie.
Dallas
D. Eden
Dum Vivimus, Vivamus
My opinion.
As for some I do have my own beliefs for its helped me through many a hard time. Yes I consider myself a Christian. But for some its that title alone that they feel they have a right to persecute me for just being that without know what part of a christian I am. I am lumped as they say into the whole "bible thumping crowd". But am I catholic, Protestant, Baptist or some other. I'll leave that alone.
Now as a Christian I have to put some things in order. I love to look at the stars and wonder. What other life forms are out there. Trying to resolve the whole concept of when did it all begin. Now there's the other aspect. Dinosaurs and so on. Don't think of Scientology with that for its not. That's a whole different breed there.
As for being an Atheist must I purge all my stories of what I consider my characters beliefs? I don't think so. To give you a perspective. MY God! Does this constitute my belief? Not really for its also a common phrase used by people without thinking. They may not be talking about a god but had just called it out. I actually used it in a sentence and someone jumped all over me for claiming I was Pushing God on them. "My God man I was only talking like this."
I have no qualm with talking to those that have their own beliefs. I had one who wanted to shove down my throat his own views. I never pushed mine on him. But he sure did push his on me. I tend to leave it alone for that very reason. It could have cost me my job or escalated into a fist fight.
I love Sci-fi and Fantasy does this interfere in what I should believe?
But this is just me.
Oh and there are those that say the 'Spaghetti Monster is God'. Google it.
The issue is not really beliefs
It's all about proselytizing. We all have the right to believe in what we will. To have faith or not, as each of us chooses.
However, none of us has the right to force another to believe as we do - and this includes the atheists in the group.
Objecting to my having beliefs is simply another form of proselytizing. A way of attempting to force your belief that their is no God, no other power, no big kid with a bag of marbles sitting in the sky - whatever you choose to call it or envision.
I was raised as a Lutheran. I married into a Catholic family. I spent a large portion of my life as an agnostic as I didn't feel qualified to judge whether or not their was a so-called supreme being. But then I realized that it was about faith and that I did in fact have it.
That does not mean that everyone does or will find it. If you do, so be it. If not, well, it is what it is and whatever works for you.
To each his or her own, and we should be happy to let others do as they will. That's kind of what this site is about isn't it?
We allow each other to be whoever or whatever we feel, and we offer support to our fellow travelers. That's my interpretation anyway, and I for one have been happy to have felt a part of it.
Dallas
D. Eden
Dum Vivimus, Vivamus
A tricky subject... why?
Sometimes the amount of religiousness around here makes me feel rather uncomfortable. I've seen general atheist bashing passive aggressively placed in stories too. I don't know if these things occur through ignorance or active hatred. It doesn't help that any expression of atheism is seen as a general attack on religion.
When I see stories about forcing kids to go to church, or sing about Jesus, or whatever, they make me feel awful inside. It seems like indoctrination to me. Though I'm sure many here wouldn't view it as such, I actually had to stop reading a story on here because of it. I'm sure me saying this would be taken as a direct attack. It's not meant to be. I'm an atheist. I don't believe in that stuff. More importantly, I don't consider religion a free choice if you're telling small children what to believe; telling them what you know of religion is fact rather than opinion.
It's disturbing to me. Am I allowed to say that? Or am I being offensive? When these things leave me with an unsettled feeling I can't talk about it. It's considered 'unfriendly.' Why? It's not religious bashing. It's my interpretation of things based on my own life views. I certainly never say, and have never said, that I think religion is stupid or believers are stupid. I don't believe that.
If religion is off limits, please, I beg you, stop posting about it. It's not fair to us. I guess I'll find out if this is friendly or not if it gets deleted.
I understand
I understand why Erin has certain rules in place. As long as the comments or views are civil I see no reason not to discuss them. But once it goes downhill by a simple misuse or offends someone then the conversation stops. It truly is a tricky slope to be on. So we have to talk around the subject. Which for some is tricky in itself.
Not aware of having removed any such posts or comments
By you, Celynn. I might have but I don't remember doing so. Posts that are unfriendly are what get removed and the author of such posts is often not the best one to judge whether it was friendly or not.
And I don't often say anything about why I removed a post. Why? Because it often devolves into an argument. Case in point right here....
Nicki is apparently of the firm opinion that calling other religious beliefs "ludicrous nonsense" is not unfriendly.
In my judgement it was.
The usual religious comment that I remove has something in it like one of these:
And yes, I have removed numerous comments disrespecting atheism and agnosticism as well as formal religions. Because you don't see them does not mean that I am operating on bias.
Hugs,
Erin
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
Interesting
I have felt from the beginning that this was a place where I could express my lack of religious beliefs without retaliation. I know many here are deeply religious, and that is their prerogative, and I respect that. I have absolutely no problem with that. Many of the people I write about are deeply religious. Many of them are not. Religious issues have never been part of of my stories. The characters seem to get along very well in spite of their religious beliefs or lack of beliefs. That's the way it should be. My characters are Jewish, Christians, and agnostic. There are Orthodox Jews, Eastern Orthodox Christians, Lutherans, Church of God, Armenian Apostolic, Baptists, Agnostics, and a group who feel they really have it right. Some believe in an afterlife that has no religious trappings or requirements. Even some of my magic people go to church and are believers. I have few beliefs, too many beliefs obscure reality.
Portia
Beliefs
I am a Christian. However, I am also a Veteran of the U.S. Army and a Combat Vet. I swore to defend the Constitution. This means that I respect everyone's right to believe as they wish and will defend them with my life even if I disagree with that view point. I have no problem with having intelligent discourse with others of differing beliefs but I have a major problem with people who belittle those who have different beliefs. As such, I actually enjoy reading other view points as long as they are not hateful.
Gee, Nicki, I hope you're not mad at me.
I think every one should be able to believe, or not believe, what they want. The only time I have a problem with belief is when it's used to hurt others: No one has the right to do that, no matter what they believe. I have several good friends here who are Atheist or Agnostic and I love and value them all. I hope I said nothing to hurt you, if I did you have my humble, abject and contrite apology: Honest!
And if I did, you can call me the SOB that I am privately, you have my email, or publicly (won't be the first time). If I, or anyone else here criticized your belief, then shame on me/them!!!
Heck, I'll be the first to say you might be right: I don't have a lock on truth!
Your friend always,
Ole
We are each exactly as God made us. God does not make mistakes!
Gender rights are the new civil rights!
Nikki
I...believe. I believe because I choose to, not because of any concrete evidence of the existence of the divine. Having said that: I trust Nikki. If she says she's felt an anti-atheist vibe, I have no doubt, none, that she senses it. For my part, I want to reassure her: you are welcome anyplace I am. I will not just accept your "unbelief" I will defend it. If this a site that tolerates all points of view; then those of the atheist deserve just as much respect as any other.
Now, having said THAT: I can't say that I've observed much in the way of anti-atheist sentiment. Then again, being a believer, I don't suppose I would be very sensitive to it's existence. It just wouldn't register for me the way it would for others. We all are sensitive to certain things we regard as important. I, for example, am fairly sensitive to what I see as "anti-feminist" ideas; or writing that takes the marginalization or subjugation of women out of the realm of fantasy and fiction and tries to sell it as desirable in the "real world." Where the fiction is a vehicle for anti-female propaganda.
I have to say, because I'm sensitive to it, I seem to see much more of that, than I do of anti-atheist sentiments. But, then again, I'm willing to concede that it could be because i am hypersensitive to that particular issue.
In the end, if Nikki says it....it's quite likely she perceives it. And, Nikki, I will do what I can, as a very new member here, to make atheists feel as welcome as anyone else.
Religion—Friend or Foe?
I hadn't noticed a particularly anti-atheist vibe, but I have been fascinated by the way that various authors (and commenters) handle the tension between certain religious sects and the existence of homosexuality, gender dysphoria, and related phenomena, especially when it seems like the writer is trying really hard to maintain their belief in the face of hostility from their own congregation/friends/family.
I gave up on religion long ago, but I've always been curious about what people could find so valuable in what seems to me to range from naive storytelling, at best, up to deliberate abusive exploitation at worst. I get the idea of a sense of community, but I prefer one that doesn't tell me what I can and cannot do with my life, especially based on self-serving interpretations of stories whose current form masks the layers of then-contemporary paranoia and pettiness courtesy of selective inclusion and revision.
I feel sorry for people who are caught between their own feelings and needs and their church's doctrine, and I hope those people will be able to reconcile those opposing forces without losing who they are in the process. Gender dysphoria is awful enough without your friends and family turning on you because they were taught to by people who don't understand and don't care to understand, or by some particularly narrow interpretation of a section of an ancient book taken out of context and used to justify bad behavior on the part of the majority.
Hang in there, do what you need to do, and, if you have to, be prepared to trade one particular form of belief for another that allows you to be whole. Treat people the same way—if they might come 'round eventually, don't completely cut your ties, but for every person you might lose because of your situation, there are many new people for you to meet and include in your life to replace them. For the rest of us, at least the religious people here aren't likely to be targeting the others here for their nonstandard views.
-- Jane
Searching for the photo .... but can't re-find it.
A Facebook post a few weeks ago showed one of those big advertising poles with a huge board on the top, that tower over their surroundings.
The big headline read: "Religion is like a penis"
The three-lines of the body said:
"It's fine to have one."
"It's fine to be proud of it."
"Just don't take it out in public and wave it about."
Religion is like a penis...
-
Cheers,
Puddin'
A tender heart is an asset to an editor: it helps us be ruthless in a tactful way.
--- The Chicago Manual of Style
Wow - you're quick!
Thanks
On the flip side
If feels more like...
Religion is like a pair of boobs....Wooohooo, check these puppies out.
Only not many get offended by them.
People say, "You don't know what you had until it's gone." Very true, but also equally true is, "You don't know what you've been missing until is arrives."
No it's not... it may be like
No it's not... it may be like that when comparing moderate christian sects, but as soon as it gets a bit more fundamaental or actually between different religions it gets even worse than the penis thing. I think it fits quite well from the atheist POV.
not a good thing
to be using something like that when trying to be polite, comparing someones beliefs to a piece of anatomy that can be construed as vulgar. just to give you an idea. i know you didnt make this, but you are the one who brought it up in this conversation.
Terri
Teresa L.
On the other, other hand...
The last line of the quote was silently ignored. Surely that counts for something in the way of discretion...
-----------
Despite all the elegant rhetoric about the Pilgrim fathers...America has not set an exemplary record in the area of religious freedom. The English Calvinists who settled in Plymouth and Massachusetts Bay did not come to found a society where spiritual liberty would reign supreme. They came to found a theocracy, as the four Quakers...who were hanged on Boston Common between 1659 and 1661 soon found out. Unpopular and unconventional religious beliefs and practices were not only unwelcome, they were not tolerated. Roger Williams, a Baptist, was hounded into the frozen wilderness. When Henry Dunster, the president of Harvard College, decided not to have his fourth infant baptized because he had come to accept adult baptism, he was forced to retire. Later on, in other parts of the country, Mormons, Jews, Masons, Jesuits, and ordinary Roman Catholics felt the hard edge of harassment and discrimination because of their religious convictions. A couple of generations ago, Jehovah's Witnesses were the main target of prejudice. Now we have the 'cults.' It seems Americans are never really happy unless there is some unfamiliar religious group to abuse. The spirit of theocracy lingers on.
–– Harvey Cox, Thomas Professor of Divinity, Harvard University
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Cheers,
Puddin'
A tender heart is an asset to an editor: it helps us be ruthless in a tactful way.
--- The Chicago Manual of Style
On the other hand...
...there are plenty of stories which postulate the existence of witches, demons, multiple Gods and Goddesses, magic, and various cultural practices which are anathema to most strict Christians, and probably the devout of most organised faith systems. The site is defined to be a sort of friendly anarchy, so the mere appearance of any organised religion in a story is no more significant (except perhaps to co-religionists) than the appearance of Thor or Belial in another. In fact, there *are* stories which are more-or-less openly hostile to one or all religions, but that sort of thing comes with the territory.
This site is not "correct," politically or otherwise, but only polite. If you don't like stories involving either magic or heartfelt prayer, or smoking, or *anything*, don't read them. Most stories are tagged, and even if they're not, their premises are usually either obvious or explained in some sort of introduction. If one reaches a point in an otherwise promising story and are suddenly offended, stop reading. There are plenty more stories available, and if you don't find a perfect story that caters to your every preference, write the thing yourself. Who better?
If you drive by a church on the street, no one forces you to step inside, and neither does one have to follow the example of the main character (or any supporting character) as one reads along in stories on this site. No one reports what stories one is reading (unless you yourself comment on it favourably or recommend it as a favourite story), nor does anyone keep track of what you *don't* read. What does happen is that egregious attacks on anyone or any story in comments or blogs are usually "moderated," which is a fancy word for deleted. (usually "unpublished," actually, which is not quite the same thing)
King Narcisse, a Christian Minister in the town I grew up in, used to say, "It's nice to be nice," and I can't say that I disagree with him at all, although I am not now and have never been a Christian.
-
Cheers,
Puddin'
A tender heart is an asset to an editor: it helps us be ruthless in a tactful way.
--- The Chicago Manual of Style
It's nice to be nice.
That is a message I can support, it marches hand in hand with:
Nonsense
Some authors write with a strong sense of religion in their stories. There are some authors here I skip, simply because I find the religion in their stories too heavy handed for my tastes. There are many authors here I skip because while they don't invoke religion, they write about stuff I don't care to read. Some authors include religion in a way that makes sense with the story, and I'm fine with that even though I'm not a fan of the religion in question. Some people here express religious views in blogs and comments that I think are, frankly, whacky. But then, some people here express nonreligious views in blogs and comments than I think are, frankly, whacky. If it becomes a consistent trend, there's the ignore user button.
So, believe (or don't) what you like. Express that in a way that doesn't belittle people that disagree with you, and you should have no trouble.
My Ramblings...
If you feel posts are being removed simply because of a profession of your atheism, have you considered keeping a record of your posts outside of BC (screenshots, text copies, or the like)? The simplest explanation is that your posts may be considered "unfriendly" in some way other than your expression of atheism, and it may help if you got a few together and asked Erin, just in my opinion. Absent concrete evidence to the contrary, I'd prefer to give her the benefit of the doubt (as she notes in her sig).
Then again, I may be completely wrong as a "casual" reader. Those are just my thoughts, of course.
The rest of my thoughts go way OT and are probably not pertinent, so I'll leave it there...
Religion written tastefully
here is an example of a religion written into a story without it being heavy handed or smothering:
http://bigclosetr.us/topshelf/fiction/2378/prodigal
Excellent example to learn from for writing as well as to enjoy. (It's a BCTS Retro-Classic too!)
Sephrena
sorry i dont see this..
Yes there is a lot of talk about religion, and personal beliefs, i dont see anyone attacking atheists or those with a lack of beliefs in a higher power. I dont see much talk supporting atheism, but that is more a lack of proponents commenting on it i would say. I identify as christian, but not of any organized sect. I honor anyone right to believe what they wish, so long as it does not infringe on someone else rights.
atheists can not expect religious folks NOT to talk about their beliefs, not that i am not condoning those who try to convert,etc, but someone discussing it as those i have read here. maybe make sure they are tagged as religious then those who are not interested wont read it? a persons beliefs are the basis of their identity and to try and prevent that is infringing on their rights. atheists have the right not to read it, reading is not required, or mandatory, but it is appreciated by the authors i think we will all agree.
and as some have said, they are not religious, but their characters can be, it is part of life. all types exist, religious believers, those who feel science is all there is, etc. I have my own take on it, but that is for me, not for others.
Please, let us all respect everyone elses rights to talk, so long as it is civil. if you find it offensive due to content vs intent, you have the right not to read it, send a comment to the author, etc. Dont bash the story in a comment, especially if you didnt bother to read it all. constructive criticism is usually appreciated, but not if it is just because it has or doesnt have something you agree or disagree with.
thank you,
Terri
Teresa L.
I agree with Terri.
I'm not really a person of faith, just wasn't raised that way but I do Write characters that have a much stronger faith than myself.
Bailey Summers
Faith does not necessarily equate to religion.....
Yes, I believe that there is someone or some force out there. It can and has been proven scientifically - how do we explain enthalpy and entropy without some greater force opposing them?
However, the key as I already stated is that everyone is entitled to their own beliefs, and their own version of faith. I don't like most organized religions. There are good things about many, but just the same, they all have their issues and problems. I feel that if there is one thing that we should all believe in it is ourselves, and we should all learn to have faith in our friends. Yes, I know, many of my friends have betrayed my faith over the years - especially recently, as has much of my family.
That does not mean that I should stop believing and give up my faith. It just means that it was misplaced in individuals who were not worthy of it.
I hope and pray (yes, I said it) that I have found others more deserving of my faith; many of them on this website.
As to prayer, well, prayer is something that I do for me. It helps me to verbalized my thoughts, my wants, my needs, and my desires.
If my referring to this as prayer, or my using the word God offends some - well, you have my apology. However, you do not have the right to tell me I have to change. Only I can do that.
At times I am astounded by the fact that I live in a country that was founded on freedom - most specifically freedom from tyranny and freedom from religious persecution. Yet, some of us seem to be trying to develop our own form of religious tyranny and persecuting those who disagree. As I stated before on this site, I have and will continue to defend the rights of ALL PEOPLE to believe whatever they choose and to practice their faith as they will - up until those beliefs and practices infringe on another person's. That's what my country was founded on, and that is how I was raised.
Dallas
D. Eden
Dum Vivimus, Vivamus
Religion is not the problem
Religion is a mechanism. Wipe it off the face of the Earth, eliminated it from society, you still have the core problem...humanity. Get rid of our pride and greed, and we won't need to invent silly superstitions to make ourselves feel better in the face of those better than us, while oppressing those weaker. Wickedness will always exits regardless of whether religion exits or not. I would take it one step forward in the fight towards a better world, let's get rid of politics. So much division over political parties that result in pain. Relationships? How often are people killed over some asinine love quarrel. Sports? Oh boy, I just can't stand Giant's fans. Let's beat the hell out of him for his choice of baseball team. Money? More of a root cause for wickedness, but still not the deep enough.
Practice religion, don't practice religion...Doesn't matter to me, but everyone start showing compassion for each other. Respect each other and our differences. Our diversity is what makes us interesting as humans. Stop worrying that there are those better than you, there always will be. And there will always be people lower than you. Don't trample on them to make yourself feel better. Love one another and enjoy what each has to offer this world. That's how we can start making this world a better place...that and the complete utter removal of the California Angels and all their fans.
People say, "You don't know what you had until it's gone." Very true, but also equally true is, "You don't know what you've been missing until is arrives."
Give me a frigen break
I can't believe you are complaining about something like this. As soon a s someone that doesn't believe in God and wants everyone else to suscribe to that thought, see's anything to do with religion they go off the deep end. Hey, I dislike anything that's liberal, you know not being responsible for yourself and expecting the government to take care of you, but that's my beliefs. I'm not going to complain, but try to see someone elses point of view. I'm probably in the minority here being conservative, but I don't complain about it. Personaly I think you should get a grip and maybe see what other's are thinking, Arecee
Deep end?
I added a comment to Erin's piece about Rule One, but I will expand a little here. Religion is a system of belief, just like communism or capitalism, anarchism or libertarianism (I get confused when Americans talk about 'liberals'; the two are different things).
Now, some belief systems express ideas that other people find hateful, such as sexism. One particular religion, in its book, requires followers of another sort of belief to be killed on sight, and has repeated injunctions against taking members of two other religions as friends. That is not nice, to say the least. The bulk of religions condemn people like me out of hand, and in many countries I would be liable to murder, judicial or otherwise. I could start with Russia, add Iran...
The problem with religious belief systems is special pleading: many of them demand protection from criticism simply because they invoke a deity. That irks me; I am reminded of the late Zappa, when called a sexist because of a song criticising women: "Women do stupid things just like men, they should take their lumps, just like men". Be strong in your beliefs, and argue them (nicely); don't hide behind "But it's DIFFERENT!"
The person I am replying to has political beliefs I would happily debate, but this is not the place for them. Oddly, they appear to live in a place where being a non-believer is not the norm, where not going to a church can be the kiss of death for a career, and where an astonishingly large number of people believe in a young Earth. As I said, though, THIS IS NOT THE PLACE. Be excellent to one another.
My own views, as mentioned on the other thread, are not the classical atheist views. I don't disbelieve in the existence of any deity, I just don't see the need to consider their presence, just as I don't feel the need to consider what colour my height is.
Play nicely, please.
>> anarchism or
>> anarchism or libertarianism
Not an either/or comparison in most cases. Libertarianism and Anarchism have a lot in common, just somewhat different aims and (sometimes) methods, usually, in some senses the conservative and liberal wings of the same party. Timid Anarchists usually call themselves Libertarians, whilst the bolder Libertarians call a spade a spade.
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An Anarchist is an extreme Libertarian, like a Socialist is an extreme Democrat, and a Fascist is an extreme Republican.
– Andre Marrou
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Cheers,
Puddin'
A tender heart is an asset to an editor: it helps us be ruthless in a tactful way.
--- The Chicago Manual of Style
Haven't read all your
Haven't read all your comments yet. The ones I've studied seem very well argued and I thank you for them.
What you may not know is that my anger was intensified when a perfectly good blog explaining my position was removed without notice or apology. It didn't name anyone, nor did it refer to any one individual or group.
Here it is in much shorter form.
Do you believe in Thor? No? Then you'll understand why I don't believe in any other God.
But that was unacceptable. It was censored, and by the same person who told me months ago that I shouldn't be afraid of offending anyone.
As they say on the western side of the pond, go figure.
I did message you about that
I removed that blog because of the line where you called other people's religious beliefs "ludicrous nonsense."
Here's part of the message I sent you, you did not reply:
I will defend myself if you attack me in public, Nicki. And accusing me of picking on you without explanation is an attack.
I'm not arbitrary about this, I am following a 14 year old policy that is right up there in the corner of the front page as Rule One.
Hugs,
Erin
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
Interesting that you pick on Thor...
As it happens, I'm half Danish, and number Þórr believers amongst my relatives and friends. I find it mildly offensive that you chose to use Þórr and presumably, by extension, the Asatru Alliance and many other Pagans, as a belief so wildly autre that it made a safe choice as a belief that "no one" would believe in.
In point of fact, Þórr, the God of Thunder and the Mountaintop, El Shaddai, is vaguely cognate with the word Deity, or Deus, from the Latin, from an ancient root meaning "bright," or "Heaven," usually translated as the word "God" you use so blithely, and is in fact the very same God (or Goddess - the word originally applied to Gods and Goddesses equally, and was of the neuter gender, very pointedly not "He") transmogrified by the workings of time and cultural change, much of it enforced at the point of a sword, or the end of a rope, or the flames of a "heretic's" pyre. Deu Pater, God the Father, was in fact the randy Jupiter Classicists like to tell "Myths" about, but he's the same God, under the same name, who appears in the Bible, and the stories are there called "Scripture," a term of art for ordinary propaganda.
The common distinction made by bigots in English between lower case god and upper case God is itself deeply offensive, because it implies (and not very subtly) that the latter is "better" than the other.
All these names have a history much older than the Bible, because (as it says in that same Bible) "There is nothing new under the Sun."
"There is no remembrance of former things,
nor will there be any remembrance
of later things yet to happen
among those who come after."
As succinct a summary of a basic tenet of Hinduism as any I've ever seen.
-
Cheers,
Puddin'
A tender heart is an asset to an editor: it helps us be ruthless in a tactful way.
--- The Chicago Manual of Style
I actually feel the opposite.
I actually feel the opposite. I've felt that for several weeks at least, I've been personally attacked at times because of my faith. I'm Muslim. I make no bones about that and frankly I don't care about whether you believe or not. I helped set up an interfaith council at my workplace, which includes everything from believers (Muslims, Hindus, Christians, Druids, etc.) to non-believers such as atheists and agnostics.
I respect everyone, regardless of their beliefs or lack of them, just like I try my best not to judge people by their color of skin, or their height or any other arbitrary thing. The only thing I've ever asked is that I receive the same respect for my beliefs. Sadly, a lot of times, that doesn't happen. But because of who I am, I normally just take it instead of trying to cause a problem because I've come to view society very cynically. Namely that if I cry about persecution in any way, I get immediately attacked as deserving it.
Attributing things to people's faiths without actual knowledge or with prejudice is in my opinion hateful. That's why I try my best to not do so. I truly believe we can all live in peace, do you?
Samirah M. Johnstone
Thank God (or not) this site is here for all of us...
Erin has created a place where we can be our true selves: Where we can share stories and make friendships and choose our own families when ours may have let us down. Can't we rejoice in that rather than argue over points of belief?
We're all more the same than we are different, else we wouldn't be here at all. Now everyone, Look at your neighbor to your left and to your right, smile, and join hands around the campfire and sing a round of Blue Moon of Kentucky and just enjoy the company of others who know and share your pain. Then everyone join in a group hug. 'Cause what we have here is a very special thing!
Your friend always,
Ole
We are each exactly as God made us. God does not make mistakes!
Gender rights are the new civil rights!
Came into this late
It was a friendly place before a few comments were posted. I know several stories with an athiest content. No one has attacked the author.
Rule #1 don't be mean to others. We come here not to be attacked. If you want to attack someone, find another site please.
Karen