As expected, the Supremes have found that if California officials refused to defend Prop 8 in court because they thought it was unconstitutional, no private citizen could defend it, either. This means, the Circuit Court never should have even heard the appeal, and the District Court decision, which found Prop 8 to be unconstitutional, is the final one.
Net result: those individuals who sued in District Court can now get married in California. There is no national or regional application of the decision, though. It only affects California. Technically, it only affects that one case. A different district court in California could rule differently. (But see UPDATE2, below! If the state government stops enforcing Prop 8, there won't be any more district court actions against it, so stick a fork in it, it's done.)
The money quote from the Supremes: "Because petitioners have not satisfied their burden to demonstrate standing to appeal the judgment of the District Court, the Ninth Circuit was without jurisdiction to consider the appeal. The judgment of the Ninth Circuit is vacated, and the case is remanded with instructions to dismiss the appeal for lack of jurisdiction."
Full decision: http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/12pdf/12-144_8ok0.pdf
UPDATE: Some real legal analysis, from one of the commenters on Scotusblog:
"There will be much further discussion and analysis about how the decision in Perry affects other couples in California. For the time being, we will say this: the Supreme Court has dismissed the appeal challenging a final order from the trial court. It would appear, then, that the order will go into effect. And it appears that this final order purports to prohibit the Attorney General and the Governor from enforcing Prop. 8.
"There could well be new challenges to the scope of that order. But for the time being, the order appears to be in effect and to prevent enforcement of Proposition 8 statewide."
UPDATE2 -- Statement of Governor Brown of California:
“After years of struggle, the U.S. Supreme Court today has made same-sex marriage a reality in California. In light of the decision, I have directed the California Department of Public Health to advise the state’s counties that they must begin issuing marriage licenses to same-sex couples in California as soon as the Ninth Circuit confirms the stay is lifted.”
Comments
Love my Governor
Governor Deval Patrick of Mass. approved this decision. Was really happy to see this result.
Same Sex
Also they struck down the federal mandate that said marriage is only between a man and a women by saying it was unconstutional and that the Federal Government has to reckons all marriages no matter what sex it is. That ruling changes a lot of things for same sex marriages get a lot benefits at Federal level. I was really surprise this went thru as the court is still kind of controlled by the republican party. And I think it is one of the best that has ever came out of the court ever!
Richard
All this having now come down I wonder what next
Will the states that don't recognize Gay marriage be sued to force them to accept it? Will churches be sued to force them to accept it. Will there be attempts to force them to accept Gay clergy? Will they be sued for speaking out against it? How far do proponents wish to take this?
Sweet Sue...
While everyone may be finally convinced of the inevitability of same-sex unions, the idea of suing churches to accept them can't and shouldn't be a part of the equation. No matter what we might believe about their faith and practices, compelling churches to accept performing rites of marriage for same-sex couples would be a violation of the First Amendment to the Constitution. And prohibiting the speaking out against same-sex marriages as a matter of the practice of their faith would be another violation as well.
So long as a church or house of worship cannot impede or inhibit someone's choices, it remains imperative that they not be restricted in any manner; otherwise we allow the government to dictate whenever and wherever and most importantly whatever it wants what we may say and believe. You give an inch, and the government has and will take a parsec.
Curiously enough, I just finished posting another chapter of my anthology, Twice in a Lifetime, where the chapter culminates in wedding between two women. Entirely a coincidence, since I had planned the ending months ago.
Love, Andrea Lena
Don't Panic!
I gather from your comments that you are an opponent of same-sex marriage. There's no need to panic. Churches are protected from any changes to their doctrine, beliefs, speech or practices. The First Amendment, and particularly the "Establishment Clause," gives them independence from government control. If they wish to continue to condemn LGBT people, they are certainly free to do so from a legal standpoint. They need not be welcoming, need not provide ceremonies, need not ordain, etc., etc. Need not follow the actual teachings of Christ... ooops, did I just go too far?
See... My church (a meeting of The Religious Society of Friends) believes quite differently from your church. We've always treated people equally, because we believe there is that of God in every person. We interpret Christ's teachings to mean we should be welcoming and nonjudgmental of all people, and to celebrate their spiritual gifts. We started performing same-sex marriages a decade before our state even approved them, because we recognize the essential equality of all people. Unfortunately, until our state passed a law allowing same-sex couples to get marriage licenses, our church-based marriages of these couples only counted in our own faith community.
So, all this case was is a question of secular law. That's the end of it. Church business remains church business. My church can continue to be open and accepting of our gay and trans brothers and sisters, except now with wider external community acceptance. Your church can continue to find these people unacceptable in your midst, and can continue to practice as you do, except now with less force of law to impose your will upon others. I trust that you are not a violent person, and can temper your disappointment that "you lost" and learn to accept that your neighbors may be different than you are and do not have to believe as you do, nor worship as you do. They won't harm you, and I'd like to urge you to return the favor.
Let me make it clear
I believe this is an issue that should be decided state by state. If California or any other state wishes to permit it, then so be it. I say what I say because I know how these people that are in the forefront of this think. Gay marriage isn't really what it was about. It was just a vehicle for their agenda. It has much more to do with how they think about this country and the future of it. I do know that a government that tries to tell religious organizations they must provide contraception and abortion would be willing to try to force this on them as well. You have a lot more faith in the government to restrain itself than I do. I have already seen some commments from people in various news stories that suggest they would have no problem with that. I would bet any amount of money that someone will propose just what I have mentioned and file and there is a judge somewhere that will say yeah that is right. With Kennedy and his unpredictability and the way Roberts will twist himself into a pretzel on things the Supreme court is just as likely to go along with it as not I do know that these people won't rest until that happens bank on it. I'm not being paranoid. I just pay attention to things.
"These People"?!?
You don't think maybe you're showing a teensy bit of contempt towards our LGBT friends and neighbors? That's pretty unChristian of you, IMHO. We're the "T" in LGBT, and without them we're just a tiny, tiny voice. They support us. We should return the favor. They're our friends, neighbors and relatives, made by the same Divine Creator as us, and imbued with the same inner Spirit as anyone else. In God's eyes, we are all created equal.
Your ridiculous comparison to religious employers who take federal money, serve the general public and employ people of every faith is a ridiculous comparison. Every employer must follow employment law. No one is going to force anyone to use contraception or to get an abortion against their religious belief or individual will. And no employer should be in a position to prevent their employees from following their own beliefs and serving their own medical and reproductive needs.
Permitting gay marriage doesn't change anything in our society except to lower the level of institutionalized hatred. Gay marriage only allows people who were already gay their entire lives, and in a committed relationship with a partner, to formalize that pre-existing relationship the same as any other couple committing themselves to each other for life. All it does is rob you of a tiny piece of your sense of superiority and the right to look down your nose at an unmarried couple.
Make no mistake, though. You can still exercise your overriding sense of contempt for whoever you want. No one is going to stop you. But, realize that a significant portion of the population doesn't share that small-minded, unChristian, self-righteous, unjustified animus you possess, and is willing to tell you so.
Your homophobia is contemptible. It was contemptible before any of the recent court decisions, plebescites, and legislative measures that repudiated it, and it's contemptible now.
You can think of me whatever you want
I simply know who these people are. Gay marriage is but one part of their entire agenda. They run the gamut from climate change to abortion to affirmative action to any other left wing cause. They are committed statists or marxists period and they despise all the traditional institutions and religion.I will give you one example. At George Washington University a catholic priest advised students there that having homosexual desires was not wrong but acting on them was. You may not like that position but it is the church doctrine on that matter. They all but tried to tar and feather him and run him out of town on a rail. I simply say that disagreement with these people is not allowed period. If you are a woman and want to marry another woman, go for it. Same holds true for two men. I don't give a damn about that in and of itself. You are so focused on your personal issue that you fail to see the larger issue. I will say this as a last line in this. One day they will gore your ox.
We are these people
We are these people, at least I am and I know that my agenda is to provide a safe place for TG fiction. That's pretty much it.
You make vague accusations against vaguely defined people with a vaguely imagined "agenda".
What if the real agenda is just to be able to live life and enjoy it much as other people do. What if those people are just ordinary Americans? What if the accusations you throw around are something you heard on TV or radio, spoken by someone with their own agenda? I think those three things are true, or at least the first two.
Have you studied history? Almost everything you are saying goes back hundreds of years, only the targets have changed. Back during the American Revoulution, it was thought to be ridiculous to allow "mechanics" (people who worked with their hands) to vote because "those people" would wreck society with their demands.
Later, "those people" were the residents of what would come to be the midwestern and midsouth states. Then blacks, then Mexicans and Chinese, then women, then blacks again, and immigrants and young people, now gays. It's the same-old, same-old and while there are extremists on the edge of any movement, they are NOT the steering committee. "These people" are just people and that is the truth of the matter, regardless of what propaganda may be sown by the servants of the wealthy and powerful who want to stay in power.
Look around, you're here in the middle of a BUNCH of "these people", what is our agenda?
To read and enjoy transgender fiction.
Hugs to all,
Erin
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
Thank you, Erin
This is the third conspiracy theorist I've read today. One on either side, and one I couldn't figure out at all. Non of them made any sense. Your comment is a refreshing cool breeze.
Karen
“When a clown moves into a palace, he doesn’t become a king. The palace becomes a circus.” - Turkish Proverb
Honeydrop...
Honeydrop, do you have any idea what a "statist" is? It's anyone who values a secular, national government. If you've ever recited the Pledge of Allegiance, you're a statist, too. And, if you didn't mean it, you know what that makes you, don't you?
Do you have even a clue as to why we have separation of Church and State (also known as "the Establishment Clause" of the First Amendment) in this country? It is because of the history of the abuse of government power by religion. Some of this goes back to European history, but there are numerous examples in Colonial times of it happening right here in America. I don't know what religion you are, but if you are Catholic or Baptist, there were many horrible examples of religious repression directed against them in the Colonies. In Massachusetts, which is now known as a liberal state, there was a colonial government run by the Puritan church. Among their other crimes was a ban on Quakers. Quakers were forced to either renounce their religion or be "whipped from town to town" and exiled. That is, they would take the "heretic" to each town on the way out of the state (colony) and whip them in the town square for the amusement/edification of the residents thereof. Their law also banned these exiles from returning. Several brave Quakers believed God's law trumped Man's law and returned. They were executed, hung right there on Boston Commons. Look up the "Boston Martyrs" for the full story.
Separation of Church and State is not primarily for the benefit of atheists over believers. It is mostly to protect the believers from each other! Every schism in the Christian church has been an angry one, and there has been a trail of victims the whole way. Our ingenious Founding Fathers found a way to let religions live in peace, with each other and with the State, by basically ignoring them and banning them from governance. So celebrate your freedom as we approach Independence Day, and thank the Lord that we have separation of Church and State so you can enjoy your religion without someone trying to hang you from a gibbet for heresy.
Disclaimer: I am a Quaker.