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I've just watched an excellent show on BBC I-Player called '50s Britannia'. It's a documentary about the British rock 'n' roll scene at that time and compares it to what was going on in the USA, describing it as 'a strange variant on a distant phenomenon'.
Although the Beatles are only mentioned in passing, the programme gives a remarkable insight into the cultural changes that made their fame inevitable.
Did those four young men from Liverpool invent something entirely new? Sounded like it, though I suspect not everyone would agree.
But the statement I place before you this evening is this, and it's a deliberately provocative one:
Americans write the best songs, but it's the British who showed them how they should be played.
I hope that friendly debate will ensue.
This is my contribution. All I'll say is that if I ever need something to cheer me up first thing in the morning, this is where I go.
Comments
Rockk and Roll
Rock and roll music emerged as the combination of white country music and black rhythm and blues. The music industry in the US was very much segregated in those days. As a result, the British, and the Beatles in particular, were ahead of the Americans in developing this new music. One of the Beatles documentaries I've seen pointed out that since Liverpool is a seaport, there were many sailors who picked up American R&B records when they were there, and thus kids in Liverpool had more exposure to this music than most white American kids.
Unsold records in the US were
Unsold records in the US were commonly used as ballast in empty ships returning to Liverpool. They were typically R & B records.
At the time
At the time the early 60's were used as the British invasion. This was not just limited to the Beatles. There were the Rolling Stones, The Who, and the Moody Blues to name a few.
What had occurred was the blending sound of rock and roll with another type of sound. It took America by storm. This was first led off by the Beatles and Ed Sullivan managing to bring them over. If not for him who knows who the phenomena would have been bestowed to.
Fumbling In The Dark
The British rock scene in the 50s had all sorts of obstacles to overcome. There was a ban on foreign performers, and there were no radio outlets to speak of. Everything was a kind of informed guesswork. Lonnie Donegan invented skiffle, which was an intelligent take on rockabilly but played with home-made instruments, but for the most part it was all fumbling in the dark. As for those who understood what rock 'n' roll was all about, genuine rock singers such as Cliff Richard and Tommy Steele were swiftly sanitised and made into family friendly film stars. The Man knew what he was doing back then, oh yeah.
He didn't bargain for what this
http://youtu.be/y9aG3wUrfrE
and this
http://youtu.be/YuA-fqKCiAE
would produce once they got together.
Got one of the two
The Tornado's Telstar. Don't know what the other is. Its block to us yanks.
Take Five
That bloody problem again! It was 'Take Five' by Dave Brubeck.
My point being that musicianship + innovation defeats corporate control.
Dave Brubeck
You seriously don't know the song "Take Five"? Then by all means take a listen:
Take Five by Dave Brubeck
FYI: as you say it: he's a Yank, just like you. (I will never self-identify as a "Yank".)
"Life is not measured by the breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.”
George Carlin
Oh I wasn't
Oh I wasn't putting it down. Yes I recognized it once I could identify it. Great instrumental. Listened to it as I grew up on the record player. Hard to hear on Youtube when its blocked and don't know what it was ref to except with a bunch of letters and numbers.
Everybody knows that
Everybody knows that rock-n-roll was started by Marty McFly when he tried to play match maker for his mom and dad :-)
Best songs I know (in English, there are lots of nice songs in other languages) are written in Norway (My personal favorites are mostly written by a-ha and their front man Morten Harket), Sweden (Don't even try to tell me you don't love ABBA!!!), and some really cool but strange are German. Try to listen to Camouflage album "Spice Crackers" (And yes, track Electronic Music, while masterpiece in itself, is also best track to test bass capabilities of your sound system not only in how low it will go, but how low it will go without terrible distortions).
Also Irish guys U2, while not my favorites in recorded form, are great performers and their shows are just great.
And I'm not sure that any American band ever written anything in the same league as most songs by Sting and Dire Straigts.
And forgive me, but from American great songs I mostly remember things performed by Frank Sinatra, but it was more because great voice and incredible charisma of Frank, not because of songs.
Also there are some incredible music without English language in them. I would not go into Rammstein, Kraftwerk, or Nena from Germany. But have you ever listened to Ladysmith Black Mambaza from South Africa? They are incredible!
Yes, there are some good songs from US. But 99.99% are one song miracles like Eagles with Hotel California. And who can identify at least three other songs by them? Compare with who can misidentify at least one song by ABBA as other author? I've never managed both :-)
There were
There was 'Take it Easy', 'Take it to the limit' 'Witchy Woman', But these were songs of the 70's not 60's.
Then there was America and several other bands.
Is there someone outside of US? :-)
I've bought couple of albums by Eagles something like 15 or 18 years ago. Listened to them once. Just music. I'll never will be able to identify any of those couple of dozens songs as song by Eagles... (and have no idea where those CD's are now. And I've paid something like 40$ for them while my salary was under 500$! And full set of Queen CD's was cheaper here at the time.) Acoustic Alchemy is more distinctive, while there are several similar sounding bands.
So my point is: open your ears. Use YouTube. There is incredible amount of incredible music that has nothing to do with US or UK. :-)
Of Monsters And Men from Iceland is quite an interesting starting point in youtube's related videos feature :-)
I'm not from the US but...
I will defend the Eagles, Hotel California was certainly their peak but other tracks like Tequila Sunrise, Take it to the Limit, Life in the Fast Lane, and Desperado (not released as a single) are pretty memorable too.
The Beach Boys album Pet Sounds was a big influence for Sgt Pepper so they must have been doing something right too.
I do agree there's been some great stuff from Scandinavia, and Ladysmith Black Mambazo are indeed incredible.
It's funny the way things go with music though, generalising massively the UK was picking things up from the US from the war years to the 50s, during the 60s the UK was pretty much in the lead, in the 70s and 80s we both sorta did our own thing with only a little convergence, early 90s there was 'Cool Britannia' and then we came together for boybands and grunge (not at the same time :) ) then for most of 2000s the UK was following the US lead again before striking back with bands like Coldplay and then solo artists like Adele.
-
You can't choose your relatives but you can choose your family.
Songs you mentioned do not ring the bell.
But looked through YouTube and found that New Kid in Town and Lying Eyes were performed by Eagles. Knew those songs, but never had any inkling that Eagles had anything to do with them...
Seriously
You need to open your mind to some really great music. Not sure if you are trolling, it sure seems like it. I couldn't even begin to list all the great music you are being so dismissive about. There is great music being made all around the world, not just in North America, the UK (including Australia), and Western Europe. Use YouTube to search for some of the musicians already mentioned, and see where that leads you.
"Life is not measured by the breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.”
George Carlin
My point was exactly that there is great music...
... not only in US and UK. There is huge number of incredible songs all over the world. Japanese rock, Scandinavian, French, Spanish, Italian, Australian and Korean. And also Africa not mentioning east Europe...
And yes, I love music by Sting and Police, had a blast listening to The Wall, Dire Straits I still have several vinyl records. (Just in case, not counting my digital collection, I have about three or four hundred CD's and still keep some 20 vinyl records.)
And yes, I still think that most of the American music is designed for local consumption only. Nothing to touch the soul of someone in Europe or Asia. So I'm really have trouble trying to remember American group that wrote more than one song I liked. Aero Smith... Madonna, Sinatra... older big bands and jazz...
PS: trolling was in no way my original intent... but it seems that it could look like I'm trolling.... Sorry.
Great non-english music
Sebnem Ferah. Amazing Turkish pop rock.
I would disagree with your views on American songwriting, though. Listen to a few tracks by Incubus, not only from a musical standpoint but a lyrical one as well, and you will see some amazing writing there. Or, take a look at some more offbeat artists like The Talking Heads, Soul Coughing, Gym Class Heroes, or dare I say it, They Might Be Giants, and I would say you'll find a veritable smorgasbord of amazing writing and lyrical construction.
Take it a little less seriously and delve into the realm of parody, and you'll find even more wonderful American songwriters. Weird Al, despite working almost solely in parody, has an amazing eye for lyrical construction, and many other songwriters let their fun side show some truly creative writing. Psychostick's song "Taco," for instance, stands out to me as honestly being quite well written for a humor song.
Melanie E.
Problem is, most of those...
Had one or two incredible songs. Two or three good songs. The rest - just something to fill the gig to one hour...
Compare to a-ha with from 3 to all incredible songs per album ;-)
Weird Al is good. Especially White and Nerdy :-) Buying Star Wars tape from shady dealer :-) I'm Fat was good song with good FX... But had he released anything original?
I'm assuming you've never bothered to actually listen to them
Incubus's album "S.C.I.E.N.C.E." is amazing from cover to cover, with songs ranging from the vaguely funk-driven "Interstellar Love Song" to the very catchy "Calgon," and moving on from that both "Make Yourself" and "Morning View" had a variety of amazing tracks that showed a real artistic depth not present in a lot of modern music, not to mention simply beautiful lyrics to many songs. If you can listen through "Mexico" off of "Morning View" without getting emotionally involved, you are a far stronger person than I am.
And They Might Be Giants? One or two good incredible songs and that's it?
I'll potentially give you Gym Class Heroes, and given your seemingly more pop and mainstream-oriented tastes Soul Coughing's stream of consciousness lyrical poetry might be outside a quantifiable frame of reference for you, but still...
And, A-Ha? Really?
Melanie E.
Sorry,
Internet became strange place :-) And yes Incubus is available for me on YouTube, but... Tried it... Seriously? If you consider it music, try Infected Mushroom. Their sound is about two orders of magnitude better. As for lyrics in Incubus... you are joking? I can understand about one word in ten. But where they bother to pronounce words... standard "child caught with hand in cookie jar angst". Music... Music?
If you want angst, read lyrics to Morten Harket's (yes, from a-ha ;-) ) album Wild Seed. It is actual poetry.
Will try other things tomorrow. I have 3 hours till alarm and 4 hours till the start of workday :-)
Yes! That's what was nagging me in Incubus...
. They sound like "Meaningless Death Imagery, corporate tools" from 12-String by Faeriemage :-) Sorry...
I think I just need to stop here
Since it's becoming obvious we're looking at things from completely different views of music appreciation, if you can mistake Incubus for emo-goth.
Don't bother looking up Soul Coughing either, at that.
Pop music -- be it American or Euro-pop -- has very different sensibilities from most of what I was recommending, and again, if A-Ha is your idea of great music, that's obviously the viewpoint you're coming from.
Not bad sensibilities, mind you, just very, very, different.
If this were a discussion about The Ting Tings, Goldfrapp, or Bittersweet, I'm sure we wouldn't be disagreeing on artistic merit one iota.
Melanie E.
If you're looking for something different.....
Try The Alan Parson Project. A friend of mine in college got me started listening to them, and I fell in love with their music. Alan Parson is a genius - he engineered some of the music for the Beatles as well as Dark Side of Moon for Pink Floyd.
He basically invented the whole techno movement and has some wonderful themed albums (yes albums - real vinyl ones for those of you too young to own any). A good case in point would be Tales of Mystery and Imagination in which all of the songs are based on the works of Edgar Allen Poe, or I Robot which should be fairly easy to figure out, or even Eve - also pretty self explanatory.
Their music ranges from nice mellow tunes, to upbeat danceable tunes, but all of it built around the kind of lyrics that you really want to listen to - and usually end up looking up just so that you can learn the words properly.
I have the entire collection - including the sound track to the movie Ladyhawke. Yes, he did the music to the movie as well - probably why it was so great!
Dallas
D. Eden
Dum Vivimus, Vivamus
You forgot to mention...
Eye in the Sky :-)
And I have CD somewhere :-)
But on the other side of the pond there was Mike Oldfield :-) He produced some exceptional music in the roughly same style :-)
My Memory's Going
Help me out please
I bought a CD a couple of years ago by a duo who I think came from Norway though I can't be sure. I loaned it to a friend, and friends being what they are I haven't got it back. Think really sweet, acoustic alternative rock, a kind of Simon & Garfunkel for the 2000s.
Are you ref
Are you ref Air supply?
Not a million miles away.
Not a million miles away. Thanks for the pointer.
http://youtu.be/_9UauaXTXUI
Iron And Wine?
Strikes me as the most obvious choice.
Or, perhaps, Rocky Voltolato.
Melanie E.
Kings Of Convenience
Found them!
I usually get there in the end. Thanks for the post.
http://youtu.be/_9UauaXTXUI
I quite disagree
I think that McCartney and Lennon wrote some excellent pieces, though I didn't particularly like their own rendition of how they should be sung/played. I grew up during the British Invasion in rock and roll. American pioneers such as, Buddy Holly, Jerry Lee Lewis, The Big Bopper, etc. were without equal. The Johnny-come-lately(s)[I include the King himself among them] simply couldn't hold a candle. I did appreciate several British groups, Herman's Hermits and the Crickets among them. Though they weren't well know for original material like The Beatles, they were talented performers.
However, as beauty is in the eye of the beholder, I suspect that great music can also be in the ear of the hearer.
Hugs
Patricia
Happiness is being all dressed up and HAVING some place to go.
Semper in femineo gerunt
Ich bin eine Mann
Some of the discontent
I think some of the discontent with the Beatles was that there were several ego's involved. As the Beatles grew so did their desire to have their own brand of music. The other that few knew about was Phil Spectrum. He would take one of their songs and re-mix it without their approval. "Long and winding road" for example. He helped push the group apart because of his interference. But after being together for so long they were looking to go on their own anyway.
The one true problem with the music industry is how music itself was aired. DJ's did their part but were pressured by the recording industry to play their music, be it by force or bribe. Several artists would go to radio stations with records in hand hoping to have them play their record. The music industry was and still is all after the mighty buck.
Foreign acts were hard to hear unless they were played underground. Regions played a part also. I rarely heard some of the bands mentioned. Everyone was trying to get airtime. Radio stations changed format as the years went by. This was before the internet so a lot of artists were restricted on who heard their music.
Some was considered trash while others had folded just after we heard a song or two. One hit wonders were and are still abundant. Lets just say we agree to disagree. We each have our own likes and dislikes. Our tastes change over the years as we get older. How many of the older generation care for the newer generations music? The same goes true with the reverse. What was hard rock for me is considered elevator music. Oh how the mighty have fallen.
"For Example"?
The Beatles had already broken up before Phil Spector had anything to do with their releases. "Long and Winding Road", far from being an "example", was the only Beatles single he produced.
Because of their fame, the Fab Four could essentially record anything they wanted, any way they wanted. ("Revolution 9", for one, would hardly have seen the light of day otherwise.)
If the Beatles brooked any resistance, it happened early in their career and was mostly the same kind that all rock music did from the mid-fifties onward: it seemed rebellious and wasn't what white, middle-class adults had grown up with. By the time they went hippie with Sgt. Pepper, as I recall just about everyone who listened to rock or pop was ready to follow them there.
Eric
Busy Doing Nothing
Thanks; I'd never heard the whole thing before. Brit singer/writer/producer John Carter's studio groups recorded it twice, once as the Ivy League and later as the Flower Pot Men, but only used the first verse. (The Flower Pot version, with Neil Landon singing lead, has an interesting arrangement, quite different from either the original
(from the 1949 movie musical A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court) or the Stewart/Gaskin version here.)
Eric
Rock in it's many forms are a
compilation of mainly American and Britisk bands and singers. Thanks to Rock, we have the lampooning Monkees and the Partridge Family with the Brady Kids also having a go at it.
May Your Light Forever Shine
No Stan...
Rock was born in Britain, based on two American styles, but it has become a very global phenomenon since then. Some of the more modern styles were actually invented by other countries who aren't even English speaking as a blending of more traditional Rock styles with their own native styles. Which have then been merged back into mainstream Rock.
We also have country rock now as well, which is a merging back in of Rock with Country music, which was one of the two "parents" of rock.
Pop rock is one of Rock's offspring and has also been merged back into both country and R&B, generating pop country and hip hop.
As for other countries influence: Visual Kei in Japan is a real big example. They took 80s glam rock and took it a whooooooooooooole lot further by combining it with Japanese theater. We've recently had western bands that have brought some of this back... But they aren't being influenced by 80s glam rock like many suppose, but actually by Japanese VK.
Abigail Drew.