Let me post a comment about a pet peeve -- namely stories which drag out through a huge number of episodes. I realize that I too have been guilty of posting multi-episode stories (though no more than 4) and there are reasons why one wants to do it, but when we get to stories which have gone through X episodes (where X > 50 and, in at least one case, X > 190) with no end in sight, I think that it is going a bit to far.
Does an author really expect a casual reader to remember what happened in the previous 50 episodes? More likely, the casual or new reader will prefer to skip the entire story rather than go back and start at the beginning.
Speaking as an episodifier
I don't expect people to remember the earlier stuff in detail...
in a long story the pieces don't really fit together like clockwork.
But what *ought* to happen is that you get a sense of a world,
a place, some people, and each time you read a new episode that's
what comes back to you.
What happens when you read serial novels? Nancy Drew,
The Bobbsey Twins, Hardy Boys, Harry Potter? Do the authors
expect people to remember what happened in book one all the
way in book 135?
And how about those TV shows that run for more than one season?
What is *that* about? Do they expect us to take notes!?
Kaleigh
Kaleigh, just said it first.
No reason you need to test your memory. In these ongoing
stories something back in #2 might bee seemingly unrelated
to the current episode.
Your memories become supplanted by a sense of familiarity,
as with family members, or a comfortable old chair, in
which you read, but have long forgotten where that funny
brown spot actually came from.
I'm not a huge fan of seriels, because so many are
directionless, because the author is. If, however, they
are done well, and we have frequent surprises, and
intrigues to ponder for a short time before the next;
well, I think that fufills a need and a preference many
people feel - and not just ins Sesame Stree Kids either.
There are people with no time, people with a concomittant
spontanious loss,...Umm, people with no time...
LOL
I guess the point is, that even though you don't
always know where you are headed in life, that old
workshirt that everyone wants to throw away on you,
can still be comforting! A comfortably friendly
feeling, isn't such a bad way to get you through a
day, when you know what you are getting yourself into!
So! Even though I pray my stories will have a
beginning, an middle, and pleasd god an end; I don't
pass on anything that's really written well in some
way!
Sarah Lynn
Multi episodes...
It's surely down to the author.
I know many people here won't read serials, but that of course is their perogative.
I wouldn't normally and frankly the way EAFOAB is going and Camp Kumoni too, I must say, I'm hooked.
It's rather like being at school when the teacher reads some of a story at the end of each day, or Jackanory. It's something to look forward to. I suppose like a soap in a way. Is there ever any end in sight for those?
I assume you have read the two I have named, for before you can pass judgement upon whether or not it's right to go down the road that these two very talented authors are on, you have to be sure that the story doesn't warrant it. In addition, it would not be difficult for someone to start at the beginning - no more so than to start any unread story from the beginning.
Whether the 'casual' reader would want to join the hundreds nay thousands of people who have decided that YES, these are worth keeping up with would be for them to decide.
NB
You have the right to Not
read such stories Melissa. But there are readers here who do enjoy them. If Long multi part episode style stories are not your thing, there are plenty of singular written stories on BC to enjoy. The idea of BC is for the freedom of the readers to choose what to read. We will not restrict a genre or style and take away that freedom of choice.
BigCloset TopShelf
Melissa I Respect Your Pet Peeve, That Is Why I....
Have A Synopsis at the beginning of each serial story that I write. That way, the reader can keep up with the story. I learned that simple trick from reading very long novels. A few did not have a synopsis, so it was very difficult to keep abreast of the action.
Me, I happen to like ongoing stories, they can continue to bring you enjoyment as the author keeps on getting the characters into situations.
Some have such a large cast of characters that they can tell several sides of the very same story and some actually have fan-fiction written by other authors contributing to their stories universe.
I have read and thoroughly enjoyed your many stories and look forward to reading many more. Your usage of the varied religions in your stories is your hallmark.
May Your Light Forever Shine
May Your Light Forever Shine
re: episodes
I, for one, **love** extremely long stories. The longer, the better. If I had my druthers then every story I like would be over 1,000 pages at least. When talking about stories of that length, though, it's kind of necessary in most cases to split it up into many sections.
Also, I find that things just sort of "flow" for me even when I fail to remember some detail from the past. If the flow of the story is coherent enough then the reader will be sort of massaged past things they may not remember perfectly until it comes back to them. Of course, I read even most encyclopedic things like Robert Jordan's books in single sittings, so I guess that also makes it easier..lol.
To episode...
... or not to episode, that is the question. Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer the slings and arrows of.... Oops. Got distracted there. But I did want to comment on this topic (again). I see three main "flavors" of work that can be classified as serials (I suspect we could break these down further as well, but I'm lazy)
1) ongoing "soap" style episodes without visible ending (or with them far in the future)
2) large number of multiple episodes with a visible ending (even if it again starts up with a new ending)
3) Chapter Stories that are published serially
The first style has a place. The authors probably do NOT expect most of their users to recall much of the detail for more than a few episodes in the past. Readers can typically "pick up" the story somewhere in the middle, and "catch up" with much of the story line in a few episodes (much like the daily soaps on TV). Do they have to read ALL of the episodes to enjoy the current ones? Probably not, but many will go back and re-read them. (Hey, reruns on TV are popular for a reason.) One down side of these stories is that there is not necessarily a nice satisfying "end" that ties up all (or most) of the loose ends exposed in the story. But, then, it's not supposed to. This style of story is SUPPOSED to keep leaving openings and hooks to keep on. Some fall by the wayside, others are picked up. Characters come in and go away, but the story goes on.
The other two stories are primarily differentiated by the length of the episode and generally the time between postings. (Hey, it doesn't take as long to write and proof a 1,000 word episode as it takes to do the same with a 5,000 word chapter.) Why are these posted serially. Well, in one case, they're posted as they are written. This has the advantage (to those that want to follow) that they get the installments sooner. But, it does disrupt the flow of the story. The shorter ones are much easier to print and take with you. (I don't like to take my lappy to read while in a bubble bath - well I would, but I wouldn't like the results if it were to get fried.) There are a few of these that I follow, and luckily I've a good memory, I'm able to recall what happened previously. The other flavor of these is the stories that have been written (more or less completely) and are posted a dribble at a time (okay, some dribbles are larger than others). I can only think of two reasons for posting slowly. The first is to "tease" the readers (more is coming...). If the chunks are of decent size, and well written I don't have too much problem with it (okay. I do, but I'll deal with it). But, if they're small, I don't see any reason several can't be combined into a single post. The story is written after all. The other reason to post in bits something that's already been written completely is to increase it's time on the front page so that more people have the opportunity to see it, and find the rest to enjoy. On the serial posting as you write side, some posters are experienced authors. But some are brand new. (I'm one of those.) And they (we) may well be posting early in the hopes of receiving constructive criticism to improve the quality of what we write. (I know I've gotten a bunch.)
What does serializing do: Posted regularly, they keep the story near the top of the front page for a long time. For readers that want to follow the story, this makes life easier. For those that post less often, it pushes their things quickly down the page and out of sight. (Erin's said that things generally stay on the front page 3 days.) Agreed that normally only one or two episodes are on the front page at a time, but by "jumping" like they do to the top, other things slide down faster. Is this good or bad? Yes. If you're one of the authors of things that are published less often, the number of readers that open your work on a whim is reduced. Reducing the exposure of your prose. If you're a reader, looking for stuff other than serials you have to be quick to catch them, or know where to look.
What I'd like to see is some thought as to simple filtering of the home page based on user preferences. Say you only want complete works on the home page - you can select that. Say you want serials - Select that. Say you want only certain key words or don't want certain key words. Let us set that filter and have it remember it. (My TopShelf) But, also give us an easy way to get back to the system defaults we're all familiar with.
Okay, enough ranting and rambling. Have I used up my quota today? Have I succeeded in fuddling up the issues sufficiently? Have I actually said any thing worth reading? I dunno.
Annette
re: To episode...
A filtering system like you suggested would probably be the best solution - then users could decide how they want stories displayed. That famous fanfiction site (not sure if we're allowed to write urls in here..) has story filtering stuff like that.
Of course, that'd be a bear to set up so I'm not sure if it's really worth the effort the site admins would have to put into it. It's not like there's *that* much being added daily to this site (compared to thousands of updates on fanfiction dot net). I would use a filtering system like fanfictionnet if it was here, but I don't consider it a huge problem since I can always go back through the history. The main thing I'd like to be able to do that I can't now is to filter things by story length. As it is now, the word range is nice to have, but it's not actually calculated - it's just what each author says it is, as I understand it (since I've seen 5 page things that aren't complete which are labeled >40,000).
Long Stories
I like to read stories with ongoing episodes, it allows the author's to develop the plot.
i normally like to read the stories from the start early on, but when the episodes increase i normally drop back five episodes which allows me to get into the stories again.
When the author is only uploading a new story periodicly this problem does not occur as when the new chapter appears you are in the mood to pick up the story again.
What puts me off is when episodes of stories appear regularly as these tend to be short chapters which finish before you have hardly started.
At the end of the day it's down to individual readers to make up there own minds.
Happy reading
Eliza
ELIZA
Episodic installments
add to a sense of ownership by the reader or viewer.
How many times have you heard someone speak of needing to get to a television for "my" soaps? Or someone who reads "my" columns in the newspaper?
episodes
I have just posted Chapters 10 and 11 of Young Love and I am wondering if people will understand what is coming up in Chapter 12 (and that is a long way from 50).
Unless they are a dedicated reader, or go back and read the first three chapters, they may be lost in what is going on.
Love,
Billie Sue
Billie Sue
there's a reason
There's a reason for posting stories as serials, they tend to get more readers. I've gone both ways and my longest post had the less readers by far than my short ones. Maybe it was because of the story, but I think a reader is more likely to read something they can get through in one sitting. That's why I serialized Runway, it's over four hundred pages long. Show Me is a different case. I wrote it to be a fun little story, two chapters long but it developed into something more. Both stories get posted as my editor sees fit, and bless her heart, editing my stuff is a chore. Unfortunately if serialized stories like Christina Chase and others aren't being read, it's the readers loss, because the author has done their job. Oh well enough of my rant, it's time to get back to another serial, Arecee
Readership
Since I started the serial bandwagon last year with Urban Renewal, readership has grown by TWICE the rate of the previous six months, which was already about 50% higher than the year before. We're topping 6000 readers daily, 25000+ pages/day in January, a year ago the average was 2800 readers, 13000 pages a day. They're are other factors like improved software, but serials keep people coming back day after day.
Hugs to all,
Erin
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
Serials are mush compared to the full truckers breakfast
I would NEVER write a serial. I think they are an afront to ther reader, total cra* and .... Ah Shi*!!!!!!!
I DO write serials. Um, take back what I said.
I can understand both sides of the coin here (I'm serious .) But that is what is good about BC, varity amidst the general friendlyness of the place. We can have half page parodies of Dragnet, a fast approching 200 chapter serial and stoiries like the wonderful Danielle_J who often writes in the several hubdred page range.
I saw we need more diverisity and if you don't like a certain style, great. Tell the author why, politely, and we all benefit.
John in Wauwatosa
John in Wauwatosa
ZIPed stories?
I belong to those that like the long stories. From the "Joe Bate's Story" to those published here, But to make life somewhat easier to download, I think it would be beneficial if some of the longer/serial stories could be stored in a compressed form /ZIP or any other publicly supplied compression way/. For my personal collection I have a routine to knit together the different parts/chapters and when I reach about 500 pages, I save them as parts of a serial ov novels. In the same way as authors have done by publishing ongoing stories in separate books e.g. The Cave-bear series. On my harddisk the Tuck Saga already is above the 2 x 500 pages, so that is on the third serial part with me. As the system is here now it might be hard to start downloading all separate parts. If we could get them in groups of fifty episodes or perhaps aproximatly 500 pages, whichever is easiest for the managers, it would be easier to read long stories.
Many greetings to our god authors from
Ginnie
Manager of Peoples of Gender
GinnieG
You know, I think that was the problem with Dostoyevski
...and Charles Dickens, too. They both wrote serials that went on for hundreds of thousands of words. Too many words. Must be why nobody ever read them! If only Chuck Dickens had kept Great Expectations down to four chapters, he would have had a much better story.
Actually Dostoyevsky had quite a few inconsistencies in Crime and Punishment, because he wrote it episodically. So if it was good enough for him...
Serial Chapters
On my story "Tarja", I am going to have a non-chapter to remind people what happened before. I am rewriting, Chapter 11 and 12, so I hope it'll be up in a few days (at least Chapter 11).
TGSine --
TGSine --958