I published a book on Kindle. It took some time to get it right and I had problems with the cover page, but eventually I completed things to my satisfaction and published.
I eagerly waited for the stats regarding how many people were buying the book. The sales were not fantastic, well I didn't expect it to be due to the genre, but eventually I received a cheque from Kindle and banked it.
Then I found out about the US tax side of things and the fact that 30% of the royalties had been taken at source.
The UK has a treaty with the US that means UK citizens don’t have to pay tax to the IRS (you still have to pay tax to HM Revenue & Customs, of course).
But the process is convoluted,full off pitfalls and takes ages before you get results.
In the end I decided that I wouldn't bother with publishing on Kindle or any other US based publisher and will just carry on doing what I have been doing for years, publish on BCTS.
The last straw for me was receiving a 1042-S Foreign Person's US source Income Subject To Withholding Form, which told me that out of $147.80 net earned on Amazon, the US government was going to take 30% and then the UK government was going to take another percentage unless I filled in a form and take it to the US Embassy in London!
I am no J.K.Rowling, so I don't think that I will bother.
So for all you non-US writers out there, think carefully before you decide to publish as the costs in time and money could be considerable before you start receiving a penny (or cent) of earnings.
End of rant (I am a happy person really).
Hugs
Sue
Comments
and now you know
why a lot of American's hate doing taxes if they are self employed. I used to wonder about my old company. This group had no problems in sending a person who lived in one town and payed taxes for that town and owned his own house there, let's say Detroit, then move him to a store in another town, near the start of the year, so now he is paying taxes for working in that other town as well, then in June, moving them to Toledo, so now they get to pay taxes in 2 separate states. I saw that happen so many times and none of the people were happy about it
I have often wondered about taxes and writing. I mean how do the big named writers do it. Because is there sales taxes in other countries? Say like France, Germany and stuff like that? That would just suck if you got taxed all over and ended up with almost nothing of your profits, or ended up having to owe them
taxes
I am waiting on the European Union to add their own tax on top of individual countries taxes. Taxes are so bad here in the US if you order something online in one state then some states want you to pay in the state you ordered in and ordered from.
Hugs,
Jenna From FL
Moderator/Editor
TopShelf BigCloset
It is a long road ahead but I will finally become who I should be.
Like Benjamin Franklin said,
Like Benjamin Franklin said, "The only things certain in life are death and taxes."
That was one reason I loved Nevada with the no taxes, but yeah, with the world of online stores, it can get annoying to pay for taxes on the object in one state, then your state wants to know if you bought stuff elsewhere, so you can pay taxes again. It's a racket.
Sales tax
Sales tax from internet purchase only apply if there is a storefront location for that store in the state in which you live ... for instance Tiger Direct has a store front operation in Georgia so if you live in Georgia and order you have to pay Georgia state sales tax however if you live in a state that doesnt have a tiger direct store then you dont have to pay sales tax on the order
Sales taxes on Internet purchases
California has a "Sales and Use Tax." If I purchase something on the Internet and am not charged sales tax on it, I am supposed to declare it and pay the tax on my state income tax return. This mostly, for me, involves Amazon purchases, some of which charge me sales tax and some don't, mostly from other companies selling through Amazon. At tax time, I have to go over all my prior year's purchases and calculate the tax due. But, I've never been charged sales tax by a different state on Internet purchases.
Big name authors are paid by
Big name authors are paid by their publisher, so it doesn't matter where the books are sold to them the publisher deals with the foreign income. Those companies have the lawyers and accountants etc. to deal with the tax laws.
Not only
Not only do the authors get paid by the publisher, the publisher usually has a separate branch in America, and various European countries, Asia, etc. that operate independently deal with the taxes, and send royalties to the author. In the example used J.K. Rowling the American branch re-wrote/ re-titled the books to be more easily understood by American English readers (ex. ashcan/ trashcan, and Philosopher's stone/ Sorcerer's stone). Most American's didn't know the philosopher's stone was 'the key to turning lead to gold', so they changed it.
Well, I sort of went,
Oh! Sorcerer's stone it's a variant on Philosopher's stone!
But then I probably don't fit well into any "most" type molds, Unless it is a Most about those who don't fit in with most.
Did I confuse everyone yet?
I may have confused my self too.
*huge grin*
~Hypatia >i< ..:::
When I got to the description
When I got to the description of the stone's abilities I did the same thing, but in the extra's on one of the movies they went into the writing of the books, and 'translating' it to 'American'. They said that most Americans weren't familiar with the legend of the Philosopher's stone, so they went with the more straightforwardly descriptive Sorcerer's stone.
I don't blame you.
I don't blame you for that decision it makes sense.
The whole process makes it discouraging, why should you bother.
However I do feel somewhat disappointed that your stories wont be available on kindle.
"The sales were not fantastic,.."
But likely more then sales via other methods, unfortunately considering the pitfalls.
I am an eBook reader from before eBooks were popular, although I still like real hard copy books. All my old eBook readers have now become obsolete they wont talk to anything newer then Windows XP in some cases Windows 98. I do read a lot on my desktop. I have been looking at newer eBook Readers (physical hardware ones that is) The problem is do I buy a "Nook" and a "Kindle". Why? Because of the pervasiveness of the Kindle format and the fact that Kindle only handles Kindle, but owning and wanting books that are in other formats. What I am considering is buying a lower end "Android based tablet" to use it as an eBook reader and only as an eBook reader, since Android handle Kindle and other formats.
Note: I do already own a few Kindle eBooks, I currently only read them on my Desktop.
Kindle does seem to have become the common format, for good or for bad.
So, what formats do others here read? What eReaders do you use?
Ebook formats
I have a kindle 6-inch wifi which I bought in the middle of last year.... and now I can read books again. (Previously, I had no time between studying etc to go to the library, and definitely couldn't afford to buy books).
Thanks to Calibre, I don't have to worry much about book formats, so long as they aren't published in PDFs (they're just a pain to read on my kindle). But my preferred format is definitely either epub or mobi.
I often copy BC stories from the printable format to word; save as RTF; then convert it into mobi and onto my kindle so I can read the stories on the go!
And Hypatia - thanks to the glory of Calibre you can convert most formats to run on most e-readers. If you haven't seen it already, check out the link for one of my most-used programs of all time.
http://calibre-ebook.com/about
I hate PDF's too
On my Nook PDF's are just as bad, so I use Calibre to change it to Epub, no more hassle.
Nook, Kindle or What
There are a number of considerations you'll have before you choose Nook, Kindle or something else.
The most important is: how are you going to use this device? If you are going to spend time just reading, then it is essential that you buy a device to do that and only that which uses "e-paper".
An "e-paper" device only uses the battery whenever the content of the screen is changed, which means that the likes of Kindles and Nooks can go for a month between charges.
If you go for "just a tablet" the thing will have a backlit display and spend most its time refreshing the screen content. Result: battery life of 2 days if you are lucky. If you want this device to do general computing on then this may be an acceptable compromise but remember it's going to spend almost every night tied to a charger.
Disclosure: I went through this process a few months ago as my venerable Palm m505 faded into extinction (I chose the m505 instead of the m515 since the m515 had a color screen: uses battery faster). What I ended up with is a Kobo Touch, (then) £80 at my local W H Smith in town. This has been absolutely brilliant. It reads primarily epubs and pdfs but can do other formats if pushed. It runs Linux but behind the scenes so doesn't concern the user (unless she wants to tinker). Average battery life of three weeks, but I read a lot.
I also use calibre to load books on to it without going near the Kobo website. It required a Windows PC to register after purchase (and get software updates) and organizing that was... fun for the length of time I needed it. calibre can convert (so I have heard) Kindle format to more sensible formats as well.
Since then I have also acquired a Galaxy Tab 7" which we use as a reference device in the living room. I do not read books on it even though I could. The battery lasts 2 days on average.
Penny
I had..
I had a Palm(and another before it) & a pair of eBookMans, I got a good deal at the time(backup/spare). I found however when I got my new computer that Windows 7 would not run the software to load them. My old computer had died, for awhile I was using an old salvaged computer someone I know tossed out to run an old version of windows just to load my eReaders. I recently gave up on that. so now I need something portable for when I am not at my desk, out and about etc, or just don't want to sit at the desk.
so now I am trying to decide what to get.
Hey does anyone remember the eRocket?
Windows 7 has a free virtual
Windows 7 has a free virtual machine called XP Mode. If you install that, there's a very good chance you can use it to run your reader software.
PM me if you need/want more information.
I'll get a life when it's proven and substantiated to be better than what I'm currently experiencing.
I _might_ have a spare M505,
I _might_ have a spare M505, if you wanted it.
I'll get a life when it's proven and substantiated to be better than what I'm currently experiencing.
Thanks, but...
I still have my m505, which I bought in Jan 2001. Problem is, the battery is life-expired and I'm sure that any other palms out there are going to be in a similar state.
That is the main reason I decided to upgrade, but as I had to upgrade my phone at the same time (2nd hand in 2002!) I decided to analyse what I wanted things to do and went for a smartphone plus an e-reader, hence the Kobo.
It might as easily have been a Nook but the Kobo was there in the shop and cheaper. Even though the Kindle range looks good in hardware terms I steered clear of them because of the limited compatibility. Besides, I didn't want to tie myself to Amazon. They are no better than Google when it comes to collecting information.
Penny
I have a kindle paperwhite
I have a kindle paperwhite and I also use this http://calibre-ebook.com/about which allows me to put whatever I want on it.
Since I don't have a kindle yet.
Since I don't have a kindle yet.
Whats the deal about loading stuff I already own to it form my computer, once I do convert them of course. How easy is that? I wasn't sure how loading books to it from your computer works what with Kindle Cloud and all that. I have a fairly large collection of mixed formats backed up on CD.
If its one the basic epaper
If its one the basic epaper ones, you can just copy them over like a flash drive, then load them into the reader. easy-peasy.
I'll get a life when it's proven and substantiated to be better than what I'm currently experiencing.
It's a little more difficult on their Android Devices...
such as the Kindle Fire. You may have to have a little Android "app" to do the copy, but otherwise it's transparent, and looks like a file copy to a USB device.
-
Cheers,
Puddin'
A tender heart is an asset to an editor: it helps us be ruthless in a tactful way.
--- The Chicago Manual of Style
Loading books onto Kindle/e-reader
While it's possible to just drag and drop stuff onto Kindle devices like a usb drive (I'm not sure about other e-readers) - it's so much better to use a library-management program.
With Calibre, I just "add books" to my on-computer library, and then hit "send to device". That's it. It automatically converts the files to a format preferred by your device.
Mum has a Nook
and Calibre runs on Linux. Works quite well. Calibre and possibly something else allows it to take all the PDFs I tried and stuff them in there.
As she bites at me if I look too long at her Nook, I've no idea what the battery life is; but I do recall it had SD/MMC card as well as onboard memory.
Also, it's not Amazon, which is a sort of diversity/anti-popular plus all by itself.
What I use is a Handspring Visor Deluxe, which can barely hold its own manuals... but I like the battery (2x AAA, lasts a week or more AND is easily changed) and price ($10).
Ellen, 22nd level Necromancer of Threads
Updated - Death, Taxes and Publishing
Hi everyone;
Yes, I agree that foreign citizens seem to get the shaft from our tax system here in the US.
I subscribe to a site which sends out a "weekly" newsletter and which managed to coordinate with a publisher recently.
That publisher revised their author's contracts for digital publishing which brought them more into line (not necessarily completely) with those that exist for print authors. I don't know if the company has European (or any other country) outlets or publishing agreements but you might check on line. They can't do anything about the US tax laws but if they have a European arm then that arm might also be pressured to adopt the new contract and you could publish through it.
Go check out Random House and their four digital divisions. Be certain you pick the right division for the type of submission though.
Anesidora
P.S. no, I haven't tried them yet myself but am for the first time seriously thinking about a digital publisher. And NO, I don't work for them.
www.atrandom.com/eoriginals/index.php
It depends upon the State...
In California, the official name of the tax is "Sales and Use Tax," and one owes it whether the merchant collects it or not, even if they've collected sales tax for the State one made the purchase in.
Largish online merchants (such as Amazon,com) now collect this sales tax and pass it on directly.
Theoretically, every California resident is required to report their out-of-state purchases and pay the tax, but of course few do. On large-ticket items which have an accessible record, such as cars, boats, and the like, they do collect.
Some states, like Hawai'i, have a franchise tax, which is theoretically paid for by the business, but the businesses are allowed to explicitly pass on the tax to the customer as a line item on the bill. Almost every business in Hawai'i does, but if the business is out-of-state, there's no tax.
-
Cheers,
Puddin'
A tender heart is an asset to an editor: it helps us be ruthless in a tactful way.
--- The Chicago Manual of Style
One of the above posts lists
One of the above posts lists the results of several lawsuits in federal courts.
Sales tax is based upon the _buyer_ not the _seller_. Even going all the way back to catalog days, it's been fought out and determined that a State, such as California, may _not_ impose a sales tax on a Texas merchant, or vice versa. That is an undue burden on the seller to track sales taxes across 50 states and uncountable tax zones. The states have been told repeatedly that if they want to tax sales to other states, they _must_ come up with a common, easy to follow standard for _all_ states, not just some. (Easy to follow standard and easy method of payment).
To give you an example, in the City of Houston, you have a Metro tax, a City tax, a county tax, and a state sales tax. In the unincorporated county, you have a metro tax, a county tax, and the state tax. In other counties, you might only have county and state tax. Telling a merchant in, say, Punxatawny, that he has to know that a Champions Forest, TX, zip code is 7.25% sales tax, and has to be paid to the State of Texas, and broken down as County, Metro, and State, is unreasonable. If all the states got together and agreed on, say, a flat 4% 'mail order' sales tax, and that the local state would collect and disburse the funds, then the courts would let them do it. Our state governments are too damned greedy, not to mention the various city governments.
I'll get a life when it's proven and substantiated to be better than what I'm currently experiencing.
"Amazon Taxes"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amazon_tax
-
Cheers,
Puddin'
A tender heart is an asset to an editor: it helps us be ruthless in a tactful way.
--- The Chicago Manual of Style
Yup - and if you read through
Yup - and if you read through it, you'll find that almost every one of those groups is upset because the money is going to somewhere else, and wants to steal money from another state to benefit themselves.
None of them are willing to negotiate with each other/other states for a fair flat 'per state' tax. 'Affiliates' is a REALLY poorly disguised way to try to dig into the pockets of someone else. I'm more ticked at California and other states than Amazon.
I'll get a life when it's proven and substantiated to be better than what I'm currently experiencing.
I hope it stays that way.
The last thing we need is for all of the states to get together and come up with a universal plan to take more money out of our pockets.
Sue, have you thouhgt
about trying Lulu.com? Maddy Bell uses them as a publisher.
May Your Light Forever Shine
Ok BUT
If your a UK citizen why did you publish on the US kindle instead of the CA kindle. There is two of them that sorta act as one company. The Canadian one would not operate the same for UK citizens as Canada is not entirely seperate from the UK. Technically we are a country in our own right but will still have strong legal ties with the UK.
Sue Brown, Here is Tanya Allan's response:
Here is the Details on How to fix your Problem Sue!
This is the link to something Tanya posted earlier to your exact situation: http://bigclosetr.us/topshelf/blog/41045/so-you-want-be-publ...
The companies (US) like Amazon, withhold tax for the IRS unless you tell them that you are not a US taxpayer and belong to a nation (Like the UK) who have a tax treaty with them. It seems complicated, but it is the US Tax law. So, they will automatically withhold an extra 35% over and above their cut to pay Uncle Sam. You may only get 30% of the royalties unless you get your finger out.
IT IS SIMPLE.
You complete a downloadable form stating you are a UK (or whatever) tax payer. (Amazon has the forms on the KDP website). You send the handwritten form with your passport and other identity and tax payer confirming documents to the US IRS at the US Embassy in London (or where ever). You are requesting an ITIN number. They will (eventually) send you a form with an ITIN number on it. All you need do is complete another form requesting the release of withheld tax (available on the Amazon site) and send the details to Amazon and Bob’s your aunty.
If you use another US company, like Smashwords, all you need do is notify them of your ITIN number. You don’t have to keep applying for each company. You only need one ITIN number.
Enough for now?
If you have any questions, please drop me a line.
I will move onto any questions you may have and the actual mechanics of uploading material next time.
Tanya
Question
Sue
Did you make the initial declaration on Kindle that you were in the UK.
From Tanya's response via Sephrena, this sounds a right pain in the a**** to get right. Perhaps a good reason to avoid publishing on Kindle
Hold on a minute.
What about the good-ole' revolutionary cry, (No Taxation without representation!!!!!)
Yeah I learned about the bullshit US IRS laws a good few years ago but I shot them down in flames!!!!!
I was captain of a ship (Mammoth Pine,) Japanese owned, Liberian Flag trading every 8 weeks between Washington State (Seattle, Tacoma, Bellingham, Port Angelese and a couple of other smaller ports) and Japan. However, I discovered the cheapest way to transfer money to Switzerland was by draft through First national Seattle Bank via their branch in Port Angelese. I was 'Not-ordinarily-resident ' in the UK so my salary was wholly tax exempt. This was the main reason I was working abroad on foreign ships.
After two years travelling backwards and forwards accross the Pacific with occasional forays down to Aus' I was quietly minding my own business one afternoon whilst alongside in Port Angelese when there was a knock on my door. In march two suits without even waiting to be invited, and they demand to know who B---- H---- is. I look up mildly annoyed at the discourtesy of not knocking and openly declare myself as he.
"We have an audit of your income for these past two years sir; as determined by your transactions through the Ist National bank of Seattle. It is determined to be X thousands of dollars."
"That's not correct says I."
"What d'you mean?"
"It was much more than that!" (They don't do humour or wind-ups or Irony in the US IRS.)
"How so? We have the figures here."
"No. I have the figures here," says I, casually waving my open hand towards the 'Portage Bill' lying open on my desk.
(The Portage bill is an account of the ship's expenses, outgoings and other costs including of course, crews wages. In Sanko Line it is a large tombe encompassing a page for every month and can go back as far as the ship's maiden voyage. Every month the perforated original was taken out and despatched to head office in Tokyo. The carbon copy remained in the tombe.)
The captain's primary task is to keep this account up to date and it's his most important function as far as the company is concerned. Naturally most of us captain's spend a couple of hours every day updating this Portage Bill.
Next stupid question ...
"Where are you resident in the USA?"
"Uuuhm ... I don't live in the USA! I never have." (I hadn't at that time. My residency in the USA came later on.)
"You have an acount at the Bank in Port Angelese."
"Yes. So what? I don't live here."
"Where do you live?"
"On - this - ship - gentlemen!"
Deafening silence follows.
"Is this an American ship?"
"No."
"It has an American Flag."
"Uuuhm, I think you'll find it doesn't. That's the Liberian Flag on the stern." (It was a calm day so the flag was limp. All one could see was the 13 red and white stripes and the blue of the quarter but no stars. (There is only one star on the Liberian Flag.) The star was invisible as the flag hung down limp and folded.)
Another long silent pause ensues as their minds crank inexorably to the conclusion that there has been a monstrous f--k up!
"So you're not an American citizen."
"No. And I don't vote either. I'm afraid I'm a British citizen." Then I add helpfully, (hee-hee-hee) "But my daughter is American, she was born in Seattle hospital ... last year."
They are starting to feel like twats now while my grin gets wider.
"D'you fancy some tea gentlemen." (I didn't offer them coffee cos' I was just itching to land the punchline!!!)
"Uhm - yes please captain (Suddenly I'm now 'Captain') Uuuhm that would be nice sir." (They were being ever so courteous now.)
I picked up the phone and dialled for my steward cos' my wife was ahore with our baby daughter and the families of the Seattle shipping agent and the stevedore.
The steward answers. "Yes Captain." and I reply.
"Can you send up a tray of tea please, Boston tea if you've got it, I'm having a bit of a party."
There's another pregnant pause then the faintest trace of a smile shadowed briefly accross the younger inspector's face.
"You're joshing us now aren't you sir?"
I almost burst out laughing and my shoulders are heaving as I try not to explode with laughter. Then both inspector's shoulders start to heave as they get the joke.
The tea arrived and the Cabin boys declared slightly nervously.
"We have no Boston tea Captain sir, The steward used TyPhoo."
I smiled and promised the Cabin boy that nobody would get thrown over the side into the harbour and that included tea or tax inspectors. The poor lad was totally baffled but the tax inspectors were almost in tears trying not to laugh.
With that we all three burst out laughing while the poor cabin boy stood wondering what was going on.
The tax investigation finished there and then. I met them later that evening in Aggie's Bar in Port Angelese and I couldn't resist spreading the joke.
Tea parties and taxes? No taxation without representation? Who said US. IRS inspectors don't have a sense of humour?"
Hugs.
Bevs.
Red coat?
You're talking about taxes and tea parties, and you post a picture of yourself as a redcoat.
By the way, this cabin boy... was his name Tommy Loy?
i'm sure
its fur coat and no knickers.
Madeline Anafrid Bell
Use IRS.GOV for ITIN
To get an ITIN go to irs.gov, go to the search box and insert itin. It will lead you to all the information you need, plus give you instructions on what to do. A W-7 can be filled out on line, and printed. It appears not as complicated as some people are making it out to be.
RAMI
RAMI
for my two pennath
I've found Lulu to be pretty good only 'witholding' on US sales and stuff published via their US arm. So on the rare occasion i sell to someone in Europe something published via Lulu Europe i pay no taxes. (the buyer will however pay any VAT due)
Of course I get to set the sales price as well which Amazon are not so keen on, i can have as many variants as i like via whatever distribution (including Amazon!), altogether more user friendly if not perfect. As for sales, well i made @ £30 last month so it'll never make me rich but it helps towards stuff like the new screen i need to buy to keep writing!
What i want to know is how come if i buy from a US retailer on Amazon i pay VAT?
Mads
Madeline Anafrid Bell
All Pervading Tax Collectors
"What i want to know is how come if i buy from a US retailer on Amazon i pay VAT?"
I suspect that Amazon has a relationship of some kind with H.M. Bureau of Inland Revenue. Perhaps UK ISP firms would be required to block Amazon, if they didn't collect VAT from UK residents.
The thinking is that mail order, online, etc. sales take place where you reside, not the merchant's location. New Egg (a computer/electronics dealer) definitely has relationships with American state governments and collects sales taxes.
My feeling is that only one form of life with pretentions of being human is lower than tax collectors, pimps. April 15th is drawing nigh and "us Yanks" become very grouchy. Income tax returns and any tax owed have to be filed by that date.
G/R
I'm not sure
I don't know how its set up, but I do know there is an Amazon UK. I presume British purchasers are directed there, and get taxed directly that way, much like my prior comment about publishers with multiple branches.
death and taxes
Sue,
Actually, it's not that complicated, and many US based self-publishing companies (Like Smashwords) require the same ITIN submission.
As a UK taxpayer, you are entitled to declare that, have it certified by the US IRS (Based at the US Embassy in London), so you get zero deductions. You submit one form to them, get a form back with the ITIN details on it, and then download another form from Amazon, write the number on it and submit it back the them.
The result, no Tax to the IRS.
You do have to declare all income (from US, UK or wherever) to the HMRC as a self-employed writer.
I did it, so believe me it's not that hard. If you want help, drop me a line.
Tanya
There's no such thing as bad weather, just the wrong clothes!
Penmarris
I have just finished re-reading your 3 Penmarris stories.
I just wanted you to know how much I enjoy them.
You have created such a wonderous place.
In a way, I hate them too.
Why can't the real world be so lovely?
When I am transported to Penmarris, the emptiness, isolation, and hurt is forgotten.
Thank you that, even for brief moments, your stories have brightened my life.
All the best,
Allison
European Union to add their own tax
actually there is already an EU tax it's called VAT (Value added Tax) the rate differs from country to country, in the UK it presently stands at 20%. It's a nonsensicle tax being stupidly added to certain items like Female sanitary products, a box of matches but not to a disposable lighter.
Unfortunately EU regulations and taxes are decided by EU Commisioners and not elected officials, what the elected officials get paid for is anybodys guess.