While reading alot of stories classified as TG I've wondered ....
If someone was happy BEFORE a forced change...
Are they actually TG AFTER ??
Even tho they've resigned to their fate....
Someday a boy will survive and return to what they wanted ???
I don't recall reading a plot where the boy comes out the end as a boy happily...
Well, maybe one... he was gay at the start and end...
Tis only a story..... tis only a story....
Please don't read anything more into this, i'm not critizing anyone nor their stories.
Comments
boyishly happy?
"I don't recall reading a plot where the boy comes out the end as a boy happily..."
Most of the Aunt Jane stories are predicated on that, actually. :-) And it's definitely, explicitly, Aunt Jane's intended outcome.
... so every now and then she gets a TS or IS kid in. That's just anomalous... ;-)
Indeed
Indeed... thanks for the reminder. I enjoyed the Jane series from Tigger and Brandy de Winter.
One was actually TG and there was one where a girl becomes.... a woman *laugh*
There were some others that used the scene of jane's but haven't been completed.
delete/delete
it was a dumb idea, i deleted it ~~~laika
What borders on pure insanity?
Canada and Mexico.
.
I think the reason may be (just my opinion)
That since the folks here and other similar sites want to be female or express themselves as female that it's believed to be better/superior. I'd think almost every normal male would be severely traumatized by being changed and depression would be only a part of it...
However in fantasy-land/fiction the author can make his/her own reality and the outcome a happy one...people want stories that have happy endings more than realistic unhappy ones...personally I like both :)
Huggles!!
Alexis
A good question
I have tried to make a different kind of TS/Tg story for my first attempt at writing and my main character is not a child but has suffered a terrible accident.I have tried to write the start as non tg with a change to tg when my character makes that decision.The key I think is at the point a character chooses to become TS/Tg if they never make that choice in my opinion thats totally forced.Once a character gets passed a point of no return in transition such as being on hormones to long,orchi or srs I don't think it would be realistic to say they were brought back to their original gender because it just can't happen.Yes they can try living in it but there will always be a feeling of what used to be nagging at them and an understanding that it's gone never to return.Case in point John/Joan the Canadian who was damaged in a circumcision gone wrong then changed to female only to try being a man again then tragically committing suicide.I can't see a happy ending with that format.If they're never changed passed a point of return then maybe that scenario could work.My thoughts on it Amy
.
Gender isn't black and white - it's a spectrum. That may sound cliche but it's really true. That said, the thing that separates most "trans" people from anyone else is that their place on the spectrum (and even that's an oversimplication) is far enough over that they can't be content with their allotted role in life. Transitioning is a horrible, horrible ordeal that nobody should go through unless the alternative is truly untenable. Because while it would be great if it weren't such an ordeal... it is.
That said, fictional stories like these aren't totally ludicrous in the sense you mentioned because plenty of people could fall into either role without too many issues, while still not feeling horribly discontent were they not in that position.
It Happens
None of my characters wanted to be female before they were transformed. They had to make peace with it, and made lemonade, as John from Wua ... wau ... something or other once said. A recurrent theme throughout my stories is that life as a female isn't necessarily better, just completely different, like living life through two different filters.
Andersonville has a main character that started out as a guy, went to a girl, tried hard to adapt, but ultimately couldn't. Another main character started out as a guy, was transformed into a woman, and after many years as a woman, still wanted to switch back, and did, happily.
Aardvark
"Happiness is when what you think, what you say, and what you do are in harmony."
Mahatma Gandhi
"Happiness is when what you think, what you say, and what you do are in harmony."
Mahatma Gandhi
Well nearly .....
I would think that David in DofC meets most of your criteria. Although I did rather leave his ultimate destination hanging in the air. For the reader to take it where his/her fancy listeth.
But I agree it is the problem with this kind of fiction. The readers' expectations are such that the ending is more or less pre-ordained. Even if it is not spelt out it is assumed. It is a considerable drawback and inhibits creativity.
It is perhaps inevitable and I offer no solution. Unless to join me in believing that he at least did finally regain himself. If only because I can see no other happiness for him and one has to cling on to some vestiges of optimism. In spite of all the evidence.
Hugs,
Fleurie
Rights of passage?
Many of these stories (mine included) tend to show the male or female struggle through the change and whether forced or not, become a happy individual by the end.
It's similar to many of the rights of passage films that came out in the eighties and nineties and still come. They're about learning and finding yourself in a sea of turmoil. Ninety percent of them have a happy ending as that's what people want and here the tendency is to follow suit.
I don't know that it's creatively stifling as I think that some of the darker stories where acceptance either way does not happen, do not tend to get read as much and therefore are by definition, less popular.
Maybe someone should take up the mantle and write something that does actually encompass someone actually finding their way back and not wanting to go all the way. It certainly leaves a lot of doors open for character building doesn't it?
NB
False god of popularity.
Nick,
Popularity has nothing at all to do with creativity, unless it be an inverse proportion.
Nor do I understand the relevance of being darker, whatever that means.
Anything that limits options, or in this case closes down a whole avenue, a wide boulevard indeed, of options must surely constrain creativity. Or more correctly, I suppose, the spaces where such creativity can flourish.
Readers are, as a body, of an exceptionally conservative nature. That is why it is best not to be too in thrall to them.
Hugs,
Fleurie
this's a toughie
I've written about and tried to explore the problems with 'forced' and the possible resolution, as have others. It's a strange fact that much TG fiction 'bothers' me in part because of the trickery, deceit, etc that is often used mainly I think as some sort of guilt absolver. A 'hey it's their fault' type thing. I guess it is in part a case of where there is no choice you still choose. Perhaps only to live or not. At a certain point that is where the choice lies and it's one of those phillosophical discussions as to whether it is weakness or not to go one way or the other.
Personally I hate the idea of force and I dislike the deceit and coercion that is often seen in stories and given the gloss of love at some obscure distance. It's a twisted little road this one but in many respects not far from a lot of others. Is it a blessing that in this day and age and in the right place you can choose? So, some of us do regardless and it can be potentially a selfish thing or at least seen as such by some. The lack of that choice is a sorrow that I am glad I don't face. Hmmm, did I go to the other end and look at the mirror?
Kristina
I think this stems...
...from some not wanting to travel the road.
I may be wrong, but I think some would love the idea of not having to make the decision. They would like a magic wand or be forced as it takes the decision making out of their hands, but at the end of it, they get what they want - even if they didn't know that's what they wanted in the first place.
I think many of the people who write on this site, put themselves or part of themselves into the characters they write about. I think that the story's are them living out a fantasy vicariously through their characters, not always, but some of the time.
"I didn't ask for this, but..." is implied in many of the stories and the character is not displeased. The probability here is that no-one has a face like a bag of spanners, is built like a bear or is unable to pass in most circumstances.
Again, it's all to take us to that land that only exists in the mind where things are not always perfect, but can be made to be better than reality, getting that "ahh" or "sweet" thoughts from the readers.
NB
Too pretentious to suggest?
Could forced feminisation be a metaphor? For many of us there's a struggle between the conscious desire to be 'normal' and the subconscious compulsion to carry on as we are.
I've only completed one FF story - and it's ending is considerably darker than most - but the subgenre has its attractions, if only in plot.
Maybe
Yes, but what is normal? The more you look the more you find that normal is in the eyes of the beholder.
One is not normal for wanting to be something other than what one is? I think many wish they were something else, whether a rock star, film star, rich... the list is endless, so why not female if you're male or male if you're female?
The ideal is often to be catapulted to something else, either catapulted to stardom or transported into a different life of one form or another anyway.
These stories can do that. The strain of having to make the decision is often the hardest part of change, so take that away and the door magically opens for something else, always with that thought "well it wasn't my decision. I'm just making the best of it." right there in the forefront of the mind.
NB
Conformity
I've spent my life trying not to be 'normal' in as many different ways as possible :)
Adherence to gender stereotype is enforced from the moment of birth. I fought a long battle through my teens with my compulsion to break free of it('game over' was when I realised that the need had been there from my very early childhood, and it had only been temporarily over printed for a few years before the puberty bombshell). There were times when the compulsion did feel like another agent, someone else that I had no conscious control over...
Metaporically speaking ....
...... I think Ceri is right. I just finished a story about a "forced" feminization which drew some criticism for having used that theme even partially. One explanation I've received is that being "forced" absolves the character of the guilt of doing something socially unacceptable i.e. cross-dressing even though he likes it. So when I read such a story I can reduce my own guilt for liking to do something I was scolded for trying as a child.
As I explained to one critic it's not something I would do in real life, that is I would not force any child or anyone to crossdress. If he or she wanted to do so I would do my best to understand what was going on and decide what if anything I could or should do.
Which leaves me with the question of "forced, "stories which have always given me a kick now and then. And that's what they are, just stories to stir up the old prurient interest. But possibly they have no place here, at least that's the impression I get from some.
What I think my critics are saying is for me to be more socially open about my TG feelings, which if that's the case, is healthy advice if somewhat unrealistic in my personal situation as it would be for many.
marie c.
marie c.
Forced and otherwise
Some people don't like forced fem, some don't like stories that involve memory loss. Some don't like certain sex acts, some don't like blitzing the mall. Some don't like magic or sf, some don't like crossdressing fantasies.
It's okay to have preferences and to express them. It's not okay to express these preferences as moral judgement, even by implication.
THAT is about the only thing that has no place here. Since almost every story here will offend someone somewhere on some moral standard, such objections must be done politely and with the awareness that we all have to leave room for each other. :)
So take such criticism with the grain of salt it deserves. Make the assumption that what you write is all right and that it's okay if it doesn''t please everyone.
Hugs,
Erin
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
Or Plausible Deniability
To express your thought a slightly different way, I think the appeal of FF comes from that phase in our own journeys when we didn't feel able to face up to what we wanted to do or who we needed to be. It's an expression of the simple, old, impulse to say "It's not my fault! She made me do it!"
Because it's hard to move beyond that. The process of coming out to yourself as TV, TS, whatever, is the decision to take responsibility for what you are and what you're going to do; and accepting that in the real world no-one is going to give you that helping push and you're going to have to face your friends and family and say, in effect, this is my decision, this is what I need to do. And it's hard, and it's scary, and the idea that some benevolent-but-strict aunt-type figure can push us over the hard parts, and teach us the nitty-gritty-how-do-I's of it all, is terribly comforting.
It has nothing to do with reality. The reality of force-feminisation can be read in the story of David Reimer.
Along the Same Lines...
I can think of at least a few stories where a non-TG character is obliged to crossdress for a period of weeks or more, eventually enjoys the experience but gratefully and successfully resumes his male existence afterward.
Emmie Dee's "Forgetful Francie" and Hebe Dotson's "Round Trip", both on StorySite, are two that come immediately to my mind.
Frank/Francie is preadolescent, so sexuality's not an issue there, though a boy the same age develops a crush on the vacationing Francie and the two kiss each other goodbye.
Bob/Bobbi in the latter story is high school age and doesn't regret the experience of kissing a guy or two goodnight en femme (which surprises him), but he clearly isn't planning to do it again or include guys in his date pool once he's back to "normal".
Eric
Shannon's Course ...
... is a major TG novel by JillMI/Angela Rasch. Throughout the story we are led to believe that the main protagonist will eventually become female, but right at the very end, despite being 'dressed' at the time, he makes clear that it was all an interesting experience but he was going to be a happy male in future.
It's a long and not always easy read but I recommend it strongly. I think it's available here. I don't think my spoiler spoils it :)
Geoff
Yeah, I've been reading a
Yeah, I've been reading a lot of stories now and I'm starting to feel like there is some Janus face to it.
I can see how people dreaming and wishing for a gender change might see the female ideal as being the perfect vision.
Heck I'm doing it too at times :)
Ah, you know, like dreaming of them, ah sort of, well, kind of and...
But some stories go a very long way in forcing and abusing their characters.
While others try to tell a story without those ingredients.
Or if they are present then in a more consensual form, if that now makes any more sense to you :)
One of the things that attracted me to this site was the impression that people here knew what TG and cross dressing was.
But reading those stories that I dislike most ( heck, I have to read them first to know it right :) I get very confused.
Those stories seems to me more like some heavy sadomasochism using cross dressers and trans gendered people as un/willing victims?
It seems somehow misplaced here.
Do Trans gendered and cross dressers accept that kind of stories?
Or see those stories as descriptive?
To me they seem more fit for a commercial porn site than here?
And now i probably offended someone again
But hey, that's me :)
yoron.
It's a legitimate question
And the answer is that the people who read and write stories here are not a homogenous lot. Lainie chose the name "BigCloset" on purpose. There are lots of different motivations and interests represented here from quiet stories suitable for reading to a child all the way to raunch of a very steamy sort. There is no pornography though, porn, by US law, requires pornographic images: words cannot be porn by themselves.
CDs, TSs and other sorts of TGs are not the only people here. Some people frequent the site for other reasons, including that there actually is some very fine fiction written here: whether you like sentiment or raunch, science fiction or slice-of-life, we have some excellent writers working on their craft.
And some thoughtful and sensitive commenters. :)
Hugs,
Erin
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.