Ladies and Gentlemen,
Some of you may have followed the recent issues in the UK following a vitriolic anti TG piece by Julie Burchill, a noted left wing feminist activist and media personality.
I'm not going to defend what she wrote, although I applaud her desire to defend her friend Suzanne Moore who was (in my view) unjustly attacked for a throwaway comment in what was otherwise a serious and thought provoking article (here) that I would commend to anyone.
However... every cloud has a silver lining, and some of the coverage and comment in response to her transphobic rant has been both well considered and well written. I have included two links below that I would urge anyone with the time to read. In particular the Deborah Orr article (here) is particularly thoughtful and addresses the impact of organisational politics on a social movement.
The second article (here) is a medley of views from transgendered women who also espouse their feminism. Why is this important? Well, from a personal point of view I am beginning to realise that by accepting my innate nature I can either accept being relegated to the second class as I move through transition. Or I can work to ensure that I, and every other woman regardless of how we started, are treated with the same respect that we demanded when we pretended to be male.
Please. These are merely my thoughts and I would welcome discussion. If however you feel I have overstepped the mark I will of course immediately remove this blog.
Persephone
Comments
More from the New Statesman
Trans people and the current feminist movement by Petra Davis.
This week they've been focussing on Trans Issues, with a different blog on the subject each day.
Incidentally, in her piece introducing the theme week, Helen Lewis wrote:
As the right side of the brain controls the left side of the body, then only left-handers are in their right mind!
Deborah Orr
writes very well compared to Julie Burchill who is just a polemicist. The whole thing was a storm in a D cup until Burchill got hold of it - then it became an embarrassment, as it usually does with her. She's a fundamentalist and while entitled to her opinion, she should be kept on a tighter leash. The Observer failed to do this and has been forced to apologise after withdrawing her article. The failure of the paper is however, not the question you asked.
I'm a woman who is also a feminist despite the slings and arrows of outrageous articles like this or the rantings of Janice Raymond in The Transsexual Empire (1979). As Ms Orr suggested the lot of women in the west is probably easier than it was fifty or sixty years ago, and is better than places like India or Pakistan. However, in being a feminist, I want the oppression my sisters experience in other places to be removed, and also the oppression that any group feels should be campaigned against until it is removed, regardless of gender, religion or ethnicity. Feminism is about making things equal for everyone, and hopefully safer as well.
While I have no belief in sky pixies, I have no problem with others believing providing they don't try to influence me for the good of my soul, or condemn me because of who or what I am. Sadly, my feminism means I'd fight for them to have the freedom to be themselves, alas it isn't always reciprocated.
This world is far from perfect and mankind is just a clever ape whose societies are primarily run by the powerful, because their muscles enable them to enforce their ideas - think Afghanistan. But things are changing and women are asserting themselves even at huge personal cost. Things must change in order for human society to continue to evolve because the issues facing the planet are becoming universal. If we want to feed ourselves in future generations we either have to fight wars for resources (the macho model) or we negotiate and share (the feminist model). Only the latter is positive, but whether mankind can see it, remains to be seen, but despite being an agnostic heathen, that is the model I shall hope to see one day where politics and reigions become inclusive instead of pointing out our differences for their own advantage.
Angharad
what second class?
I have seen people post this before, and just like then, I have NO idea what the heck anyone is referring too!
Lost Jaci.
One surprising thing I found as a result
of this controversy is the angry, offensive attitudes of some gay and lesbian proponents towards transpeople, both M2F and F2M's. Even to the point that they resent the "T" in LGBT. I know that most LGB's don't feel this way - but the fact that some do, and quite vociferously, is sobering. **Sigh**
Sighs are the natural language of the heart.
-Thomas Shadwell
Honestly...
It peeves me that we're lumped together with LGB at all. I get that a LOT of T are also LGB and I'll respect their need to express that part of their identities as well... However, there's just as many T that AREN'T LGB, but the fact that we're lumped in together seems to help encourage the ignoramus's to further bury their heads in the sand regarding T just being a "lifestyle" and that we must "enjoy it" or why else would we possibly do it!
I can't remember the exact wording used anymore, but one time someone asked me something along the lines "So do you like that lifestyle?" or something, and another girl in the break room answered for me, "He must. He dresses better than half the girls in this place." Part of me was glad for the interloper. At least it saved me from going off on the questioner with something caustic about how my only "lifestyle" is stuff like what I eat and my present sexual abstinence that is likely to last at least until certain things are made right.
But that ANYONE could possibly think I or any of us ENJOY our plight pisses me off. I can't speak for LGB's, I'm not really one. I accept that I -think- I might have some bisexual inclinations, but I severely doubt I'd ever act on any interest in other girls. I do have a choice in that at least. I suppose if I choose to have a lesbian or bisexual female partner that'd be a lifestyle choice... I mean. I could just as easily choose as I am right now and stick to abstinence. Though I do hope to find a nice guy some day...
And then the behavior we get out of our supposed allies in the LGB. I'm supposed to support their bids for tolerance and equal rights, but MY rights and feelings don't seem to exist!
I realize not all of them are like that... Maybe not really even a majority... but it certainly doesn't FEEL like I'm all that welcome in the local LGBT with being a straight girl. They certainly don't make any effort to help with the educating, while I'm stuck educating people about sexuality all the time as an extension of educating them about gender.
I know this comes across as angry... it is. And I do apologize if it offends... That isn't my intention. I'm simply trying to point out that it DOESN'T surprise me like it apparently does sigh. And in fact it's so frequent as to really irritate me.
Abigail Drew.
This is something
that has irritated me for years. Sexual preference and gender identity are different, but it appears only amongst those who've actually thought about it, most LGB obviously don't. And let's face it the only reason the T is in LGBT is because we're such a minority, we'd be even less effective on our own.
It's also another reason why I live in stealth, I can't be doing with political activists any more, they see everything in black and white whereas life's mostly in shades of grey (and not that stupid book).
Angharad
I see feminism very
I see feminism very critically, because it seems to see gender relationships as a zero sum game. If they'd be out to make life better for everyone, they'd call themselves humanists, but it only for the female gender. With many of them I get the impression they want men as somekind of servile slave race, for the sins of the last quillion years.
Maybe it's the way I've been first confronted with feminism, but telling eleven year old boys they are stupid because they have a penis is the famous female empowerment. Verbally humiliating children just to make others feel better. Most school dropouts are male, boys get worse results, but the feminist minister just smiled and said its a good thing and boys are just too stupid and deserve it.
Feminism is Chauvinism with another direction. Yeah, in many parts of the world women have problems, but nobody sane can think the solution is to discriminate the male population instead. I'm sick of gendered policies. I'm sick of women who are entitled by law to behave like princesses and everyone who says something against it is a sexist. I'm sick of the fact that women can cry rape about an innocent man and are almost never punished for it. I'm sick of the fact that female emancipation means emancipation of duties, but no emancipation of priveledges that stem from patriarchic times.
Feminsm means that people only care for women. Men can live with their fucking gender role as disposable soldiers, their worth as a human... no, their worth as a man is valued by their usefulness. Maybe I'm bitter about it, but as a man, as a human being with a male sex, feminism has betrayed me. Instead of promoting true equality, truly fighting against the archaic gender roles, they only did it where it benefited women and girls. When a politician says anything with Gender nowadays that means male discrimination.
Feminism is corrupt. Instead of fighting for equality, for a good life for everyone, for men and women to live their lives as they desire, instead they fight for women quotas for executive posts in the economy. How many women have to live with lowly paid crap jobs at a counter, how many men ruin their health on hard, badly paid crap jobs? How many people in the world suffer from hunger and lack of medicine. And what is feminisms answer? Oh we need to priviledge female white women into executive posts of major companies and that will magically improve the world, because women are the better humans!!!
Nobody should ever support such chauvinism, such elitism that stinks worse than the corruption in the former communist nations. Hell, feminism can't even be bothered to disown those who fantasise over male gendercide. They just decide to call it parody and spread it even further. These people are dangerous and not something one should ever support. I mean look how many openly or behind closed doors think about the transgendered. You're subhumans because you're born with a penis or traitors because you wanted to have one.
I'm all for human rights, I'm all for respecting freedom of choice for women, but I also demand responsibility for their own actions. Women can own their own shit, women are equal as humans to men. Women don't need a movement that isn't capable to disown those who use Nazi rhetoric. A movement that is more and more influenced by those people.
People should stick together, regadless of gender, instead of chauvinistically segregate each other in delusions of superiority. If it wasn't so serious, I'd call it funny that feminist authors nowadays mirror the chauvinistic views of male chauvinists from 150 years ago only with reversed genders.
Simply put, the world needs more understanding, and more tolerance. Feminism doesn't do that. Priveleging one gender over the other will only lead to hatred and bitterness and I really don't want to see a gender war for real. That's something humanity as we know it won't be able to survive.
I'm not sure where you got this idea...
You say
and
I'm curious about where you got these ideas. In my experience Feminism is about treating women as though they ought have equal rights, not about privileging one sex over the other. (note: "equal rights" does not mean "women are the same as men" - a common distortion of the principle). I've never heard feminism described as "only care for women." This is a very curious presentation of the concept.
Like all movements and "isms" it has its share of extremists. As Angharad notes above, Ms Burchill is more a polemicist than a reasoned writer, and while she might brand herself a feminist her brand of feminism is anathema to most of the feminists I know. But even Julie Burchill, in her madness, would never describe feminism as privileging women. Women in most societies are anything but privileged.
not as think as i smart i am
Well simply put Feminism
Well simply put Feminism hasn't benefited me at all, I'm a twenty two years old guy and Feminism is around for over forty years. The only thing feminism does is making life better, or easier for women, but where do they do anything for anyone else? Hell, as I said, gendercide fantasies aren't even criticized to avoid weakening the sisterhood or something. Girls get statistically 10% better grades for the same achievements. That's been true for the last 50 years, but then feminism did nothing to change it. An injustice is only an injustice if it affects members of the female gender. If a feminist sprouts her misandric emasculation fantasies then it is female empowerment. If a man does the reverse it's sexism.
I think Sweden is the best case to watch this attitude. You just need to look into their sexist law books:
Special rights only for women. In the so called most "equal" nation of the world. That's feminist equality in law!
Here we see open sexism affecting children.
And here we see sexism affecting the criminal code. Great right? A guy can get extra punishments, but if a woman does domestic violence these laws won't grip.
In other words, men can be subjected to humiliating strip searches by women whilst the other way around is illegal.
What this means is that the father never has the right to get the state child allowance as long as the mother refuses to sign it over to him. This also applies in the cases when the father is the full time parent and the single custodian.
In other words, this money belongs by law to the women that gave birth to children.
You can find more about this here: http://www.avoiceformen.com/feminism/feminist-governance-fem...
I'm personally not from Sweden, but from Germany. The last year there was a so called quota discussion. They essentially wanted 30% women in all executive posts, regardless of the available aspirants. The so called Gender mainstreaming means nothing but an euphemism for womens advancement. We have so called equality appointees. They exist to prevent sexism, racism and other -isms in companies and the society. The big joke is that only women may apply. And only women are allowed to vote for them. They don't feel responsible for guys either.
As I said above, what good has feminism actually done for guys. I say nothing, and thus feminism only, exclusively helps women. Sure, there are some that talk differently, but then talk is cheap. Equality is the big lie of feminism imho. It's all about "me, me, me". I'm still considered canon fodder by the constitution.
a different perspective
A bit like Katy Perry I don't believe in feminism anymore. Only in my case its the all too common thread of transphobia that's turned me off of it as much as the 'I'm more feminist than thou' type attitude that seems to be prevalent at times. I'm not saying all feminists are like Burchill (who frankly is the literary equivalent of a 'shock jock') but for me it needs a serious bit of rebranding and being made to be more practical to be more relevant - less academic arguments more actual doing stuff to help people.
Instead, I believe in treating everyone with decency and compassion and refuse to accept anyone is second class. When we form as small a group as we do I personally feel a sort of 'pay it forward' mentality is much better.
"Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it."
I think one of the main
I think one of the main difficulties between transgenderism and feminism is to some feminists the concepts fundamentally oppose each other. For some feminists (not all, you do have some sane ones, as well as insane ones who go the the opposite direction from the ones I'm talking about) there is a belief that there is no difference between men and women, That if you removed all the roles supposedly placed on women by men there should be no real difference between them. Trans people KNOW there is a difference between men and women. Some feminists can't except this.
Persephone, such articles are
why I am glad that Erin created Big Closet! Where else can we feel like a family?
May Your Light Forever Shine