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What is good writing (or good reading). I am a voracious reader, that doesn't mean that I will read anything. Even with the same author depends on the genre, sometime a slight genre change is enough to make me drop some books (for example I like later works of Peter James but don't like the early stuff). How many of us really like those acclaimed writers like Nobel prize winners? I like a few and give majority a wide berth!
There are many genres, styles and skill levels. Vast majority of material I have encountered on this site shows a lot of merit and some a lot more merit than highly popular published material. This site is meant to let any aspiring writer try and publish material (within the guidelines of the site) and the commentary and criticism should aim to be constructive and encouraging.
Writers, you will find that some genres or styles will not grab the audience here and it may be worthwhile publishing at other sites with different audience profiles. Sometimes it is just a matter of timing, other material is published and readers just don't get around to your material.
Readers, (and I am probably more guilty than most)we read those stories but don't comment. The feedback is important.
Comments
Good writing
Good writing is writing stuff somebody enjoys reading. Good reading is finding a writer or writers whose work you enjoy. Simple as that. I write stories and have been lucky enough to find some people who enjoy it. People who enjoy a person's work can encourage them by leaving feedback. A good writer takes that feedback and learns from it. Feedback that only gives empty praise may stroke the writer's ego, but it does nothing to help them improve. After I posted my first story I was lucky to get useful feedback from several people. Not "good" feedback, by any current standard on BC it would be classified as "negative" feedback. But I could and did learn from it, after some initial resistance on my part.
I'll be blunt, I block writers whose work I find irritating or disturbing. There are days when most of my BC frontpage is filled with writers I've blocked. Occasionally I'll take a look at a new story by somebody that I've previously blocked. Somewhat less occasionally I'm pleasantly surprised.
My point is, my "good writer" isn't always the same as your good writer. There isn't any hard and fast rule to define what's good and what's bad. As the old saying goes, "You pays your money and you takes your chances."
Edit: Just to clarify, some of the stories I do read on BC still do not deserve a comment. Or it may be a bad day for me and I couldn't write a favorable comment if you held a gun to my head. I wanna choke every time somebody starts comparing numbers on here. There is no comparison between clicks, comments, and kudos. Anybody who thinks there is is wrong.
"Life is not measured by the breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.”
George Carlin
It's because commenting is hard.
There are certainly stories here that I would love to add constructive criticism to. Some writers here are very talented, perhaps from writing elsewhere, and seem not to lack in writing abilities.
Other amateur writers have a big problem with grammar. They don't know where to add punctuation, they don't check their spelling (spelling thru instead of through), can't bother with capitalization (incredibly important for stand alone I's), and most heinous of all (though not a grammar issue) they don't properly space things. It is very painful to read everything in one block paragraph and especially so if they have several different characters speaking at once.
Proper use of contractions is also incredibly important. Many amateur writers seem to forget how human beings actually speak. No one says "Hello, how are you today? Oh, I am fine, thank you for asking." They're much more likely to say "Hey, how's it going? I'm fine, thanks for askin'." People don't talk like robots.
The problem with constructive criticism, no matter how well worded or how much praise you heap on other areas of the story, is that it's generally met with annoyance. Writers put a lot of effort into their works, I certainly know how that is, and they get annoyed when someone has the gall to say that their work may be less than perfect.
I just can't read stories that suffer from those problems and I cannot leave constructive criticism in a PM or in a comment because I know that most author's will misconstrue my efforts. Too many times have I seen constructive criticism taken as "unfriendly" behaviour by the author who then turned around, threw a hissy fit, and pulled their work off the site.
There are some "less than perfect" writers on this site who have very compelling stories, ones I would dearly love to read, but their stories suffer from formatting issues. I'd love to say something but I know I can't.
Of course, when an author actively seeks constructive criticism, or when I think it appropriate, I try my best to leave something without sounding rude. It never involves writing style, however. I only ever comment on the plots. Some writers just can't handle anything else.
Well
I invite criticism. I would like to able to write better. But despite the invite I do not get that criticism. I also seldom speak in contractions and find my dialog stilted when I try to use them. I had a miscapitalised I in my blurb but not in my story. I hope that did not discourage you. Please remember that everyone makes a few mistakes and feedback is needed -for me any way- to reduce them. Then again, an author is writing, hopefully, from their heart and may have their own preferences that should be respected and understood from the author's point of view. I, for instance, have distate the Webster prescribed use if Z for S in many words but I am not religious about it.
Good points; ones I try to adhere to.
I always read through the first paragraph or two, however I find my opinion is usually decided based on the opening couple sentences and most of all by the opening blurb. That's only on the occasion that I actually bother to read the blurb, though.
Most of the time I will click a story from the Quick Cuts menu to see if I like it. If the author constantly makes mistakes then I tend to disregard future submissions by them as well. That's not to say I ignore them forever, mind you, I try to click on them after a few months to see if they've improved at all.
It is well accepted by any intelligent reader that authors will make mistakes. I've seen one of my favourite authors here go several sentences without capitalising words after each period. I chalked it up to a desire to get the next chapter out quickly.
The problem is if you don't bother to check for these simple mistakes constantly your work will look sloppy and it won't read well. I get annoyed enough by constant formatting mistakes that I just won't read a submission if it continues throughout the chapter and subsequent additions. Oversights are one thing, constant oversights are a sign of poor editing skills.
I don't expect 100% real world publishing quality on stories here, that's lunacy. This is a site for amateur writers (so I assume) where people can post and read transgender stories. It's a niche market and one that I get a lot of pleasure from.
That being said, if author's choose not to adhere to the codes of writing I listed in my earlier post (that I feel are important for my readability) then I just won't read their work. That doesn't make my opinion more right, it would be arrogant to assume so, but it does determine whether or not I will invest my time reading a story.
You may feel free to tell your story however you believe is important. If you think contractions don't work with your characters (as is the case in certain genres, having read Pride and Prejudice I can certainly attest that well written novels can avoid them) then that's entirely up to you. It can suit certain situations. But if every character speaks in robotic, monotone, voices then the dialogue can (and often does) sound stilted.
Placing a setting in a shop in downtown London and having characters sound like this "hello this day certainly is lovely is it not jane, i like it alot" (spelling mistakes done on purpose) ruins the immersion for me personally. If there is no immersion then the story is not readable.
Please keep in mind this is all opinion. I'm sure there are a great many who would agree with me and a great many more who would disagree. I wish to give feedback for those who ask but my experience here has shown me that it's dangerous to assume anyone is legitimately interested in it. You seem to be one of a few exceptions and I applaud you for it. Your point about an author writing from the heart was exactly my point. Authors are putting their heart's on their sleeves. It makes it impossible to offer advice when that happens.
Sorry for the long reply but I felt it was important to try and cover this subject with as much depth as possible since it is such a big subject.
Ok
You seem to have your head together and I am in the middle of a second chapter now that warrants improvement, so, if you would indulge me crit my first chapter. Love to know its flaws.
Thera.
Asking for criticism
I had to post a blog asking for criticism after I posted one of my first stories. When I wrote my first story here it had been about 40 years since I had done any creative writing. Without someone pointing out what you can do better, you won't know what you did wrong.
Rami
RAMI
I don't write to compete
I write to improve. I write to entertain, I write to share ideas, and most of all, I write for me.I have stories that want to come out, and I enjoy reading the comments on my stories. I use the ideas that I get from my readers.
If you honestly think I need to change something, please, feel free to say so. I'm strong, and have big shoulders. I can accept criticism. I may not agree, but I will listen.
I have never thought of myself as a great writer. I'm blown away when someone says they enjoy my stories. That is all the reward I need.
Wren
If you like a story, comment! That is the fuel for more stories! Support the people who write the stories you love!
Well it depends
On an amateur site you have to have a fairly high threshold of grammar and spelling pain for a number of authors. Authors, if you want critique but am sensitive about certain things then spell out in your story what constitutes allowable criticism, known issues, or areas that should be tread lightly.
SaraUK is having a crisis due to lack of comments and probably unfair criticism at this moment. Her stories are light hearted for the most part and never has really involved plots but the reader needs to tailor any criticism with that understanding in mind. I find her misspellings fun and amusing and just part of what she does. I can almost visualize a whole series of cartoons whose captions would be snippets of those spelling errors but I bite my tongue.
Point is I find bad grammar and punctuation as annoying as the next person. I do not know all the forms that constitute proper sentence structure for certain story sequences either but if I like the story enough I will go ahead and edit my own copy of it and keep it. I will still however keep the original as that is the author's voice and sometimes it is those very flaws that you want to keep.
Let's put it this way, would 'Tale of Two Cities' be ever the same if some idiot put out a grammatically correct version of it, especially correcting that 'horrible' first run on sentence?
Kim
However
How many people read it for pleasure compaired to how many had to read it for an English Lit. class? Not to mention that it was grammatically correct when it was written.
"Life is not measured by the breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.”
George Carlin
Telling a story well
Several have commented about the turn-off of bad punctuation, with which I agree, but to me a far worse turn-off is a story badly told.
Who would meet someone for the first time (say at a party) and with their opening words, try to tell their life history. Yet so many stories on this site do exactly that. Boring! Boring! Boring! That may be the right way to write up a scientific experiment at school - it's not the way to compel readers to read on to the end find out what happens to the protagonist.
So for me, the worst writing offence is to fill the story with background, especially towards the start.
I wrote my first poem in the 5th grade.
The teacher liked it so much he had it put in to a frame and hung it inside the classroom door. He made each one of read it coming in to class and before leaving. It was a poem about safety while crossing the street. I have been writing poems and short stories since. When Mr. Harold Knuth retired, he took this poem home with him. That is an honor anybody would be happy to have.
As far a reading goes, the worst critic of a transgendered story is a transgender individual. There are many transgender who have had nothing but traumatic lives both at home and at school. Then when they become adults, they have traumatic times at work. So many of the unconditional love stories in the LGBT genre are fantasy to them, because they do not know that unconditional love, and feel that it doesn't exist.
I am here to tell you it exists. Even in the 1950's when attitudes were not like they are today, I was still able to live as me. Even though my birth mother took it all away, I never forgot the unconditional love I had gotten from her best friend and her family. That is the love I write about. Even if an individual considers it a fantasy, at least they enjoyed the story.
The problem I have though, is when someone says that the plots I do write are unrealistic. Well, maybe for them it is. For me, though, I experienced this unconditional love first hand, and at a time when the word transgender wasn't even being used...not until around the late 50's, anyway.
Thank you, Georg, because your blog gives a person cause to think.
"With confidence and forbearance, we will have the strength to move forward."
Love & hugs,
Barbara
"If I have to be this girl in me, Then I have the right to be."
Literary criticism
I had to do a great deal of study (and regurgitation) of that particular field, and all I will say is that there is an awful lot of rubbish written about it. Russian Formalism, for example, claims that context should be ignored in discussing 'quality', and half a second's thought will show that to be crap. Anything written without context is sterile, and 'sterile' is not good reading.
I write for myself, but am gratififed that a number of people clearly appreciate the result. That places me, myself, in context. I write what I consider to be 'reality' and work from character rather than heavy plot devices. My belief is that if someone cares about a character, they want to know their story. If the story is all about the events, with a generic cardboard cut-out swept along in it, then I lose interest. I wrote one comment here, to a writer even newer than myself, suggesting that rather than charge straight to the exciting bit some colour and atmosphere be inserted. That is a crucial thing: let the plot develop, don't throw it at people.
I struggle with poor spelling and syntax, never mind grammar, but one thing in a recent story that really threw me was an unstructured change from first person to third, and back and forth, through the story. Maddy Bell, IIRC, had an unfinished series here that swapped persons, but that was deliberate and structured, and made sense.
I could list the authors here I value, but that would take a while and risk excluding some by oversight. I could also list those I avoid like the plague, but that would be cruel. Instead, I shall simply say I filter by genre or subject matter. I avoid most stories headed as concerning magic, retcon superheroes, being physically forced or fantasy worlds (with one sparkling exception). As soon as a story starts going into intense detail about the exact shade of eye-shadow or underwear I find myself drifting away. The point is that those latter filters all come down to one thing, and that is my own personal taste and not anything about any intrinsic quality of the writing.
I won't comment
on the writing of others, because it's all subjective anyway, but I do take note of constructive criticism and altered my latest offering after some advice was given to make it more easily readable.
I prefer such advice in personal communications rather than comments, so if I'm offering it, I try to do the same, and gently. I think we're all grateful for notification of typos when they happen, and having dyslexic fingers, please continue to tell me when I get it wrong.
Angharad
You get it wrong?
And here, all this time, I thought those little typos were placed there, intentionally. I'm devastated. :-)
All that said - I tend to follow a similar approach. Once or twice I've made comments that were addressed at mechanics... But, I tend to reserve my comments to discussions about WHAT is said, rather than HOW it is said. The "how" comments (typo/punctuation/etc.) I put in PMs. Some of them turn out to NOT be typos - but rather variations in this English language. This is another reason to keep these to PMs. The author can choose to add explanatory (translations) comments if he/she desires. Always learning.
Now, to the topic of the original post. No one thing makes a good writer (or great one)... Though, there are some factors that are in common among pieces of good literature.
Anne
What's a good story, I know
What's a good story, I know for myself I like reading long stories rather then the short stories, I don't really care about the grammar provided the story is readable and has a good story line and if I like a story I usually leave a comment, if i notice errors in the story that make it hard to understand I send a private message most people don't mind being messaged if you are trying to help and not criticize their work.
Good writing and this site
I think it is important to realize that this site caters to all kinds. I consider myself a master story teller, however, my technical writing leaves a lot to be desired. Often I only give a quick glance when I edit my stuff, but that is because it is free. On some of my works, the problem is it is so big that I can't possibly catch everything. There are some things that I have improved, such as no longer using would of in place of would've, but I am sure that I have a million other idiosyncrasies that drive people nuts. In my defense however, the stories are provided for free.
I do desire criticism and critique, but a rarely get that. Tell me I have bad grammar or that you found a ton of typos isn't really criticism if you don't point out at least an example. If I didn't get it right by the time I posted, I am not going to find it just because you say its in there.
Also, telling me you want the plot to go differently or elsewhere isn't criticism or critique either. Neither is telling me you want to continue a story I finished because you want to know what happened to the characters after the conclusion (how life can change is a prime example, also the God Bless the Child Trilogy).
I wouldn't mind people telling me about a character flaw (or lack thereof) that they would like to see developed more fully. Or plot continuity problems (Finding Jenny had a major one where I forgot the mother was raised through foster homes; i changed that in an earlier book and didn't catch it in the final).
Lastly, telling me you hate my stuff, isn't criticism either, it's just plain mean.
Katie Leone (Katie-Leone.com)
Writing is what you do when you put pen to paper, being an author is what you do when you bring words to life
You don't need any reader to find poor English...
...simply use a decent word processing program such as MS Word and switch on Grammar and Spell Checking. That will point out most of your mistakes. It's not always right, and you have to use your own judgment about that, but with me and probably most others, it's right a lot more often than it's wrong.
Who writes the good stuff?
I think many of us came here to journal out our pain, or try to bring our fantasies alive at least on paper. For most of us, writing stories is as close as we will ever get to actually being women, and we can survive with that. Some of us try to bring fantasy into reality by acting out those fantasies, as I did.
I've experimented a bit with genres here and think I understand the audience better than I did in the beginning. "You Did What To Me", was a deliberate effort to target the majority audience here, and it seems that it came pretty close; being the highest scoring story "I have" here. "Lt Katia In Afghanistan" really surprised me because the Transgender part of the story was really over in a paragraph. She then became this admittedly HOT little babe, that was really not very feminine at all, but she was working off a lot of suppressed anger I felt at the time. It was not until the last part of the last chapter that she really started to become a woman.
So, for me, much of what I have written was actually journaling and helped me to work things out.
At the ripe old age of 7 the heart felt stories of first exposure to feminine clothing, involuntary feminization, and those sorts of things have grown old, but in no way to I dispute their validity.
That's a pretty important point
... at least to me it is.
I don't think there's one kind of writing or one reason for writing. Some people write in order to exorcise something bad, or to get a grip on feelings they don't understand or having trouble facing.
I've appreciated some criticism, and the people who point out my mistakes the most frequently are also the most kind about it, which is very lucky for me.
But before a would-be critic pulls out the blue pencil (or the red one, for that matter) and goes to town on someone's work, it's a good idea to take a step back. You (I'm not addressing anyone in particular) might be an English professor, or a professional editor, or just a person whose widely read and has high standards. But do you really always need to make your opinion known? And how much of your criticism is self-indulgence?
A lesson the self-styled critic could learn at this site is to distinguish between different kinds of writing, and to try to temper their comments appropriately.
What is good writing? The answer is...
...it depends on the individual reader. At this site there are expectations to content that being a TG element somewhere. Other than that it is up to the individual reader to define what is good writing to them.
That is in my humble opinion. Giggle, giggle...
Huggles Georg
Angel
"Be Your-Self, So Easy to Say, So Hard to Live!"
What is good writing?
Depends on the author
May Your Light Forever Shine
Expanding your horizons
Everything I put a lot of effort to I like to push the envelope on what I can do, and what I do know, and putting forth a story that people can still enjoy.
Usually my stories last about 2000 words each chapter, usually because I find the pace easier to deal with because I don't have as much time as I'd like to write, and it kind of makes it easier to pump out stories to keep the readers entertained. I've written dramas (Ithycca), action/adventure (Heart of it All), and even tried doing some comedy (Super Happy Sparkle Fairies), each trying something different to see how the audience reacts.
Recently I took up a huge project. I wanted to see if I can write a 10,000 word solo story and see if I can maintain some form of structure throughout without getting the readers lost. I've been working on it the past few weeks. But it definitely is challenging.
Good writing simply is the writer willing to get themselves better, and not settling.
Good why not great!
Great writing says something more than the story. Good writing tells a good story! It has to be good before it can be great. The poor stories just never go any place because the author didn't know where the story was in the first place. It's not genres or styles or techniques. It's just plain story telling that gets you flowing so you can't stop writing and a reader can't stop reading. It's seeing the whole picture and working at writing it all down so others can see it too. Writing good dialogue isn't easy and some here do it quite well. Making the charactewrs tell the story is when it can begin to get good. There are skills to learn but you'll spend a lifetime mastering only because you learn to see more clearly. You get better from seeing it in your mind and less from readers telling what you missed. You have to remain in command of your own story. Readers like what they will and assume you meant it to be there even if you didn't.
If you don't have something clear in your mind, it won't get written down any better. If you can't love the story how will you convince someone else? To be creative you have to be unafraid to have a good idea then let it go to get an even better one. You need 100 good ideas every day of your life. Practice having them and work them to be better than they started.