For awhile I've been trying to get to what's going on or not going on between Angel and Raven. So I'd like some opinions from those of you out there.
Can Raven realistically be with Angel with him being a guy and not transitioning?
Can a straight boy even if in costume, living as a woman/girl full time possibly be a lesbian? I'm sorry if that notion hits a button but I'm not sure the relationship if there becomes one would ever be Het in nature.
I'd love everyone's thoughts on this.
FYI Raven doesn't have any like sex/past issues that pushed her sexuality, she just is a lesbian just to keep in mind.
*Great Big Hugs*
Bailey.
Comments
Oh, I think they could make it work!
I believe Raven is a lesbian with bi-interests, and that it is only due to Angel. Take Angel/Jase out of the equation, and she's a definite lesbian. Sometimes, though, we can't help who we fall in love with. I think that there is enough passion and willingness to adjust for both of them.
On the counter to that, though, is the possibility that Raven is rebounding from Summer, and Angel is just interesting enough for a crush. Okay, I still think they are truly in love-in my view, the story then becomes a tale of two things. Raven adjusting to the fact that she's in love, and the idea that Angel will need to be convinced she's serious.
Remember, he said that he wouldn't make a move, because it would ruin their friendship. Overcoming that could really make a powerful story, if done right, and I'll admit, I think you are the one who could make it work, Bailey! You do emotional issues SO well!
Holiday Hugs!
Wren
love can be the key
sometimes just being with someone you love can make the difference if they can work out other issues or not.
looking forward to what you come up with.
Love isn't about boinking...
And Angel isn't a boy at the moment, regardless of her plumbing. She and Raven may not make it last--social and biological pressures and the inevitable changes that occur as people grow up might pull them apart. However there is no limit to what people do when they're in love--or think they are. So they might make it work for quite a while... Maybe indefinitely.
Watching them work thru the complications might make for excellent story material.
Besides... You've convinced me how much they mean to each other and if they don't at least give it a try you'll make me cry.
I think a lot of the relationship involves
Whether Angel admits to herself that she's a much better girl than she was as a boy.
If this is where the discovery goes, then there's a chance... i think they love each other, but love and sexual attraction can be very different things. if Angel transitions, i could see it working... but Jase and Rayne... they may love each other, but the attraction would be one sided... that's how i see it... i've seen lots or lesbian relationships with a T* partner but... well my 0.02
Hugs n' Kisses
Moon
Tough question
Hmmm... you don't ask the easy questions do you Bailey? Particularly in a genre where previously het girls fall for tg women with surprising regularity! ;-)
I tempted to say that from the point of view of the story it's all about the dance and less about the final result. The answer to that question could almost be the final scene in the story, with Jase or Raven making their choice for the big kiss before the curtain falls.
The optimist in me who believes love conquers all will tell you those crazy kids can work out anything if their love is strong enough. The het girl I am says its quite important actually regardless of how we feel about someone.
Thinking about it a more logically I see the answer to your question this way I guess:
1. Raven is a lesbian, doesn't want to be with a guy however feminine or attractive as a girl he is. Therefore the only way they can be together is if Raven is willing to accept Jase medically transitioning to Angel with a final op. Of course Angel needs to be willing to transition as well but s/he has already shown an ability to think, feel as Angel not Jase, so maybe there is a buried gender issue.
2. Raven is a lesbian but with bi-leanings she hadn't realised because Summer was her only serious relationship and she hasn't had chance to explore this side of her. Probably the best outcome for them being together in that it's all about love then and not sex and gender. Raven could accept Jase as Jase, or Jase who likes to sometimes be Angel, or a non-medically/surgically transitioned Angel, or a medically/surgically transitioned Angel. In turn Jase / Angel can be who they want/need to be.
3. Angel falls for Mike and that's a whole new set of issues.
It's a question quite fundamental to who Raven and Angel/Jase are in the story. I also love both characters so it's difficult to separate heart from head as well.
"Just once I want my life to be like an 80's movie, preferably one with a really awesome musical number for no apparent reason. But no, no, John Hughes did not direct my life."
"Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it."
I've been wondering that too!
Can they make it work? First, just so it is said, it is obvious they are both very attracted to each other. The problem is that Angel is just one part of Jason. In a way, he is bi-gendered equally comfortable as male or female. For it to work, Raven would have to accept that underneath Angel's femininity is a boy, ie male genitalia.
This is not an easy thing for Angel either. She has to cope with whatever compromises Raven needs to deal with someone is both masculine and feminine.
There are a lot of guys who consider themselves HET, who are very attracted to T-girls. It's the femininity that is important. The question is how much Raven can overlook the male parts and love Angel's Femininity. Another issue is that the Jason part is more than likely is going to need expression too. Nope, none of it is going to be easy!
On the other hand we have positives. Both of them are very creative and their relationship is fueling that. Just look at the songs they've both written thinking about the other is not directly about each other. Very powerful stuff here, but given how much Jason was hurt when Raven went out with (Darn it, I can't remember the girl's name!) I don't think he'll be able to stand it for very long. He'll be very polite and self-sacrificing like always, but no one can take that kind of pain for long. Oh they'll still be friends, but not nearly as close as they are now.
Right now Starlight Butterfly is in one of those Perfect Storms. They're becoming a good band, but have the potential of doing much more. All of that depends on the chemistry between Raven and Angel who is also Jason. I want to see them defy the odds and go to the top. However, as always the story is yours to tell. Whichever path you chose I'm sure it'll keep me checking daily for updates!
hugs.
Grover
Here's my take...
They definitely appear to be in love with each other, but Angel!Jase is currently restraining himself because he thinks love == sex.
If some means could be found for them to have love == romance != sex, they could make a go of it. Romantic partners (kissing / cuddling / companionship / dates), not sexual partners (or anything else intimate done while completely naked). Rayne may have the occasional one night stand, but due to numerous circumstances (not just the crossdressing) I can't see Angel!Jase engaging in any sexual relationships for a while.
Angel!Jase definitely isn't TG, but it's certainly plausible that he could spend an extended period of time living pretty much 24/7 as Angel, and if Starlight Butterfly achieve more than local success, that may continue further - although at some point he may try to divide his time between "being" Jase and "being" Angel. It may even be a case that for the forseeable future, in public Angel's all girl, while in private a kind of hybrid persona takes over. Although the girls are mainly experiencing Angel, they do have occasional flashes of Jase, and one of them (Brooklyn?) still insists on calling him Jase.
There are 10 kinds of people in the world - those who understand binary and those who don't...
As the right side of the brain controls the left side of the body, then only left-handers are in their right mind!
Isn't Angel/Jason Bi? or at
Isn't Angel/Jason Bi? or at least bi-curious? Since he did feel attracted to that young guy that's unknowingly investigating him.
just a question :--)
grtz & hugs,
Sarah xxx
Love is a battlefield,
but you're one of the biggest bombs we got. I'm sure you'll make it turn out great any way. ^_^
*HuggleSnugglePurr* <3
- - -
BCTS's resident Extravagant Honorable Trans-Cat-MegaTomboy! ;D ...But I do like cuddles from soft but strong arms... ^_^
A lot Of People Fall In Love
Raven and Angel
Do you know if Raven and Angel really care about labels like het/lesbian, straight/gay (or even boy/girl) when it is "just" about the relationship between two people in love?
--
M - I am I
Martina
I don't see it working
I don't see it working permanently. It would be Angel always bending himself to fit into Raven's sexuality. It might work for some time, but I guess there would come a point where Angel just couldn't stand bending himself anymore and wanting to be accepted as he is.
That would be the point where Raven realizes he's really a guy and their love might very well end in a tragedy splitting the band.
The girls would be smart to try to find a nice girl for Angel. I think Raven works better as somekind of sister than his love interest.
I think Angel might dress up as a girl for quite a long time without minding it very much, but in the end he'll always associate it with being forced into hiding - Hiding his real self from unjust persecution.
I doubt it would work, but maybe you can make it work.
*hugs*
Beyogi
Your viewpoint has my vote
It is one thing to visually and emotionally be attractive to an adapted persona but Raven has not really met Jason yet, has she? Can she handle being in a relationship with a man, which at the core, Jason IS. I personally have difficulties with a person who switches all the time - sorry that is just the way I am. Look at the current situation with Chaz and his long term SO. She is not going to marry him. Tell me that has nothing to do with his transition to being a man now, eh?
Unless Raven is repainted as being Bi, I do not see it happening. I for one am not looking for a masculine partner, which Jason will be when in male mode, based on how he is personified at this point.
There are a lot of folks and crossdressers and wishful non-ops and preops, especially, who wish their SOs would be some kind of bi and would be accepting. The romantics among us would want that to happen to but the hard reality is that, no that is not case, given who they are right now. The reality also is not too rosy for us postops either though better obviously but I know lots of stories of lesbian postops who have been rejected.
It's your story, but are you going for hard reality or a softserve romantic notion?
Kim
I cant see them as a couple
the boy thing just is too big a barrier, in my opinion. We need to find a girl for Angel who can deal with both sides.
Dorothycolleen, member of Bailey's Angels
Don't overlook the other dynamic
Which is, that the four are all partners in a band.
Now, I've seen enough bands come and go to know that when any two of the members become more than just members the whole dynamic of the band changes, and can frequently lead to it breaking up.
While the others will no doubt thoroughly approve of a Raven/Angel linkup - in whatever eventual form - to begin with, it must ultimately result in the relationship between the four changing. Dealing with this development may turn out to be more difficult than plotting the Raven/Angel thing.
Penny
Jem! There's a conundrum
if there ever was one.
When you think of Raven as true-and-through lesbian, it couldn't work. Don't the hardcore lesbians consider transgender MtF persona to be a travesty of the 'pure female identity'? (Theirs of course.) A claim from the male spectrum that is to be seen as an offense, or offence, even. Well if Rayne is something of a hardliner in that vein, I'd think it fairly unconceivable. But somehow I don't think she's that rigid or close minded. Mind, she has quite some thinking and growing to do though, but that's true for all four of them.
Which brings Angel/Jason to the fore. S/he is 'forced' in this guise and finding it remarkably easy. Comfortably so even. So is he discovering his feminine side? Or is she discovering herself? In case of the latter, isn't this exploration and discovering a road twisted and rocky enough of it's own? Hmm, I guess a lovely, lovable, loving SO would be a huge support of course. And I can sooo imagine it, so sweet.
Then you throw in this gorgeous, epitome of manly male, guy in the mix with Angel ( or/and Jason? ) clearly umm.. 'affected' by him, and you wonder what is, or should, be going on between Raven and Angel?
But that's not your question. Can a lesbian have a meaningful relation with a guy in (dis)guise? I think not. She'd still want her significant other to be female, like her. It's the core that counts, the identity that will or will not harmonize.
Could a straight boy, living full time as a woman, be a lesbian? Again, I think not. He's a hetero male, or bisexual maybe, but his identity is male. Ergo not lesbian.
Or is it? Living full time as female? Makes you wonder: Is s/he in denial? Afraid of scorn or condemnation from others?
It's this box, you're playing with the lid of, that's making this story a little more enthralling than some of the other straight coursed ones, imho. Of course, love will/should conquer all, and make this all a fairy tale, with appropriate ending. But I happen to like those, and you've quite a knack for writing true life anchored sweet tales.
My 2 ce.. umm.. Euros.
Jo-Anne
Jem/Angel/Jason and Raven
I know this is probably a little bit late but I figured I would add my 2 cents worth. It appears to me that Raven has indeed fallen head over heals for Angel/Jason even the other girls in the house have noticed it from the beginning when the first met poor Jason. Jason became Jem/Angel after meeting all the girls and them caring for him and hiding him from the jerks and the cops. I don't think Angel would be a rebound gf since Raven loves her even after her ONS with Jesse? and Angel obviously loves Raven also. Though there is the whole Mike confusion.
In my opinion love is blind to gender and it has everything to do with personality and soul. Angels soul may be male, female, or somewhere inbetween but her personality is definately that of a caring young woman and that is a very strong lure to some lesbians. It is not impossible for lesbians to find love and relationships outside of there comfort zones. I consider myself a lesbian though I have been with a couple of guys in my life. Also prior to gaining the strength to being true to myself I was in a fairly long serious relationship with a devout lesbian that could see through my facade to the girl within and my female personality. Also you have set a precedence that it can happen in your stories as well with your lovely story Bridges.
So in answer to your quandry I believe yes they could definately make it happen.
Rebekah