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Hi, I'm writing a SF story at the moment and I have a character doing an explanation about genders...
Someone once mentioned here that there are five genders...
Male, Female, Non-Gendered, Bi-Gendered, is there some other stuff I forgot or are those the only ones?
Does anyone have an idea about the natural occurance of genders in the population?
Thank you for your help,
Beyogi
Perhaps there is also
Dual-Spirited? I'm not talking about a Whiskey/Vodka mix (for a change!) here.
- - -
I'm an honorary catgirl. =) I like fine seafood, and I love huggles and gentle scratches! ^_^
Bissu
A quick bit of googling returns the following article: http://www.insideindonesia.org/edition-66/sulawesi-s-fifth-gender-3007484
It seems that the South Sulawesi ethnic group recognises five genders: Men, Women, Calabai, Calalai, and Bissu.
The third and forth basically cover transgender Male and Females.
The fifth describes a person, usually intersexed, who is all genders simultaniously.
The article and Wikipedia try to explain it in detail, but it doesn't seem an easy thing to describe.
I thought about
I thought about differentating between Sex, Gender and brain structure.
An effiminate guy would have m,m,f a m2f tg would have m,f,f and a normal guy would have m,m,m or m,m,0 I wonder what a m,f,m person would be...
Everyone, do you think this categories work to classify genders correctly?
It's just that I fear to write bullshit :(
you could think of it like a graph
with male being one axis, and female the other. The points on the graph would be such things as what sex organs you have, what your overall physical appearance it like, what societal roles you tend towards, and so on. Every person would be a completely unique combination of all these factors.
Dorothycolleen
Little boxes
Gender isn't naturally found in little boxes marked F and M, or L, G, B or T for that matter. Gender is messy, it's not digital -- unless you wear gloves.
Hugs,
Erin
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
There is: Genetic Gender --
There is:
Genetic Gender -- Chromosomal inheritance
Physical Gender - The physical aspects of your birth
Brain Gender - functional structure of the brain, especially in the Amygdala, along gender lines, and hormonally affected gray and white matter mixes and distributions in the brain.
Brain Sex- Orientation -- who you want to go to bed with
Gender Identity -- Our subjective gender, sexual Self-Map, how we feel ourselves to be. Male, Female, Androgyne, whatever.
Set these things in a matrix, and you can see there are a lot more than three, or four, or five "sexes".
Dr. Carl Bushong (http//www.doctorbushong.com/pubs/what_is_gender.asp) suggests on the basis of his studies, that our brains develop gender in at least three independent dimensions, which he calls Brain Gender, or how the brain is wired along gender lines. Brain Sex is how we perceive sex relationship and goals along male-female sets, and Gender Identity, how we perceive ourselves, Male, Female, or other. Not only are these dimensions independent from one another, they are independent of the physical identity as well. Thus a person in a male body can have a male brain sex, but have a female Brain Gender. Such a person would look, act and feel male, but have a female's sensitivity to emotions, words, and sensations, and this is frequently so among writers, artists and others. If you construct and view the matrix, you can see that the possible combinations and degrees of variance truly could number in the thousands. In fact, with regard to gender, we can be in a category of one -- ourselves.
Culture confuses the issue. Each of us operate in the world with a set of models of that world tucked into our brains. The information forming the models is derived from what we learn and are taught by the elders of our generation, and what we learn from our peers. So, in our culture which we lovingly say is scientific, we love labels, so we can put lots of labels on things. In our brains labels are needed to be able to think about a thing and to communicate to others about it, so these are shared within a culture. So we have "heterosexual males and females with totally male or female brains and bodies that likely form maybe a few percent of our species, and then a lot of others that we pigeon hole on the basis of our perceptions of them, and these based on our very own models of the world. We can have normal, gay, lesbian, bisexual, Androgyne, Assexual, Intersexed, some of whom have gender dysphoria over an assigned gender, transsexual, transgendered or CDers, Fetishistic Transvestites, and many other terms, many prejudically uncomplementary, and all not totally correct due to the limitations of language and our mental models. What I might think of as a Transsexual, for example, you might think of as a tranny whore, dependent upon your own mental model of the world. Other cultures have other models of the world, and these are really no more correct than any other in terms of types of sex.
So you are an author. Make of it as you will for the world you are writing about, since you are writing a scifi story, you can label things any way you want and conceive of them any way you want, and be correct.
CaroL
CaroL
Genetic Gender -- Presumably
Genetic Gender -- Presumably XY, I've never had it checked.
Physical Gender - Male
Brain Gender - That is an interesting question. I'm not entirely sure my brain went through puberty. It seems to be still at that stage where I am a kid, and hadn't particularly developed a gender yet.
Brain Sex- Orientation -- Beds are for sleeping, and laying down on to read. What else would you use one for?
Gender Identity -- None.
I admit that I envy most of the people here, you may be stuck in the wrong body, but at least you know what you are. I really have no clue.
Thank you for the great
Thank you for the great explanation. I'm using Nova that allow changing gender identity(that what makes you adapt a gender identity), genetic gender and physical gender and what you call brain sex.
I wanted to be more or less correct since I'm a perfectionist *blush*
Well my protagonist is:
Genetic Gender -- m
Physical Gender - m
Brain Gender - A-f
Brain Sex- Hetero (interested in females)
Gender Identity (marker) - 0
Gender Identity - A-M
I think it'll work...
Thank you for the information,
Beyogi
Seven Scales of Sexuality
Take a look at this: http://bigclosetr.us/topshelf/system/files/u433/SevenScalesO...
It's another way to slice and dice the different aspects of sexual identity, orientation and behavior.
___________________
If a picture is worth 1000 words, this is at least part of my story.
Thanks for sharing this...
Thanks for sharing this... CaroLs explanation is more usefull though, since the story isn't really about sexuality. Those seven scales might be useful for character developement though...
Intersex vs. Transgender/Transsexual
Dr. Bushong's article may not be very applicable to TG/TS issues. It is a more thorough examination of intersex conditions (or what are now grouped together as DSD -- Disorders of Sexual Development).
Transgender (and the more specific Transsexual) states are, at least for now, more properly seen by professionals as psychological conditions. That is, the mind and personality of the person does not fit into society's expectations of them based on their physical gender.
Intersex/DSD is a whole different ballgame. There is medical, physical evidence in our current state of knowledge to show that the person does not fit into the binary physical model at all, regardless of whatever is in their head. Therefore, it is impossible to class them as psychologically transgender, as their physical gender isn't clear. Besides the simplistic gross chromosomal abnormalities that encompass Klinefelter's and other syndromes, we now know of several other genetic abnormalities that prevent normal sexual development in utero. So, when it comes to things like TG/TS and transitioning, these people deserve a free pass. Medical ethics is coalescing around allowing the personality and internal sense of gender lead them in any interventions, and away from random surgical gender assignment in infants with ambivalent genitalia.
Despite recent improvements in knowledge, we are doubtless still in early days, and it's entirely possible that future knowledge will bring definitive markers for brain gender into the picture. The physical/psychological treatment divide may well disappear, with transsexualism recognized as a physical, not psychological, condition.
For now, though, the paths are quite different, and it would be well to set aside intersex/DSD as an entirely different set of medical challenges from TS/TG. Where there are similar societal challenges, these need to be fought. (So much of the animus towards gender non-conformist people comes from a certain religious bent. It needs to be made clear to them that intersex people are born that way, and that they in turn have only two choices: a} respect God's creations and His unknowable purposes, or b} be forced to conclude there is no God.)
Not to make pawns out of people with medical conditions, but if all aspects of society could be made to respect and accept people with physical intersex/DSD conditions, it's not a huge leap to later accept that our TG/TS brains could be wired the way they are at birth. So, it's very important for us to defend the rights of the intersexed, and especially those who wish to remain ambivalent and want a third choice on the M/F checkboxes.
It's that societal straight-jacket of binary gender expectations that imposes so much harm on those who don't fit.
myself on that scale...
Gender: Male
Sexual Orientation: To cover me, the scale would need to be diamond-shaped, with the middle skewing up or down towards either bi or asexuality. I'd be in the dead center of it all right now, used to be strictly asexual though, but now I'm beginning to become slightly bi-curious.
Gender Identity: Male, but really really close to the middle.
Sexual Identity: I've never actually participated in sexual activity, but from the few fantasies I've been beginning to have since my hormonal balance has been changing, and from the way I behave in social situations where I could either take charge or let others run things, I'd say I'm extremely submissive.
Aesthetic: Middling, wind up presenting as slightly more masculine for defensive purposes, but if I had my druthers, I'd lean more towards feminine. I do, in private.
Social Conduct: femme. very femme. I tend not to act out at all in social situations because I know I can't even come close to pretending to be butch enough to pass as a "normal" hetero male.
Sexual Activity: If I were interested at all, definitely monogamous... But as previously covered, I'm mostly asexual.
---
This has started changing recently with my herbally induced feminizing. Especially on the sexual orientation and activity. I think the identity as a submissive was always there, but I would never have realized it before... I'm not entirely sure I'm comfortable with the realization that I'd rather be the one getting skewered, when I don't really feel like I should be all female. I accept it, but I'm never going to act on it. Can't really... I want to get it where I don't have the right equipment to accept it, and don't want it on the other end. I also don't feel like I should have the right equipment... Ah, the complexities of it all.
And really, once I put my answers to all the categories down, the only thing keeping me from being a full transgendered is that I really do still think of myself as mostly male, just with faulty wiring.
Abigail Drew.
Yay, another way of defining
Yay, another way of defining sex, gender, and sexuality that doesn't have a spot for me.
Filling this out looks something like this:
Gender(1): female<-->male :This one is easy, I was born male, although I have not had any gender tests done.
Sexual Orientation(2): "gay/lesbian<-->straight" :Neither (not bi, well see below)
or, perhaps preferably, attraction to: female partners<-->male partners :None, I am not attracted to either male or female partners (and in some ways repulsed by both)
Gender Identity: male<-->female :Somewhere near the middle, or again outside the chart with none.
Sexual Identity: dominant<-->submissive :None, I have no sexual desires.
Aesthetic: feminine<-->masculine :Somewhere in the middle on the masculine side.
Social Conduct: butch<-->femme :Again somewhere in the middle on the butch side.
Sexual Activity: monogamous<-->unbridled :Whats to left of monogamous? I have no sexual activity.
If there was a way for me to easily identified and discriminated against, I would be amongst one of the smallest minorities out there.
I did have someone try to tell me that I was "bi," because my desire to have sex with men and women was equal. The fact that the desire was zero, didn't mean anything to him.
Lest I forget...
Gender: *Looks down the front of her panties* "We're in the process of making a brand new home for you! Oh yes we are! It will take a few years, and you'll have to turn inside out when you move in, but it will totally be worth it! ^_^ Those two friends of yours are NOT invited, however."
Sexual Orientation: Omnisexual! ^_^
Gender Identity: MEGA Tomboy! Hoo-rah! :D
Sexual Identity: VERY submissive, but if you can't make Chuck Norris pass out from pure terror simply by looking him in the eye, then your chances of charming me are ...reduced.
Aesthetic: Faaaaaaabulous! =D
Social Conduct = (Gender Identity + BCTS Username)
Sexual Activity: I appreciate FWB relationships, but if you want a "proper" relationship, (See Sexual Identity)
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I'm an honorary catgirl. =) I like fine seafood, and I love huggles and gentle scratches! ^_^
Intergendered.
That is betwixt-and-between. Bi usually refers to sexuality, at least that's what the Bi's try to tell me, though I've got my own thoughts about that.
I see a difference between Bi gendered and 'intgergendered' To me Bi gendered implies some degree of hermaphrodism with representative physical characteristics. I see intergendered as approximating closer to a mental state. In my own case, my gender feelings seem to swing sinosodually between F and M but my sexuality is primarily heterosexual if you relate that to my registered gender. However because I'm sometimes female in my head and sometimes male that gives me a sinodual bi-sexuality because I'm mostly attracted to females. That is emotionally and socially. There is no physicality anymore.
Sinusoidually?
Isn't that something to do with noses? ;)
I wrote a blog post a long while back, This One, in fact, in which I thought it was a kind of sawtooth rather than a smooth transition (sorry no pun intended).
I'm wondering if the reason your perceived state of mind is swinging is due to your testosterone levels.
Intergendered - a great word we should make use of. It describes what some of us feel like exactly.
Penny
Another Gender
How about the Gender-Morph?
Wholeman
Yes, the weird author with the boob fetish.
Yes, the weird author with the boob fetish.