Here's a lesson in how the internet works. When you make a comment, even an anonymous comment, on a board like this, it leaves behind a trace. That trace contains, at minimum, your IP address at the time of the hookup. It works this way because it must since actually sending a comment is not instantaneous, your computer and my server have to know where each other are so they can communicate until the transaction is done.
So, if you make a rude or unfriendly comment as visitor here on BC, I will unpub the comment, look up the trace and ban that IP address from accessing BC. If over a period of time, I get more than one rude comment that seems to be coming from one ISP in one area (IP addresses have patterns you can read if you know how), I will suspect dynamic addressing. Then I will do a database search for similar IPs in the comment database and see if there are other unfriendly comments by this joker that I may have missed.
And if while doing that I find that this IP address is also used by a BC member, I'll examine writing styles and posting patterns and if I determine that the 'Visitor' was indeed a BC member posting anonymously... well, then I'm going to write this note and post it on the site.
Consider this a second warning. Nobody gets three.
Hugs to everyone else,
Erin
Dinosaur
that I am, the tech stuff went straight over my head, but I understood the message. Well said.
Drupal / Joomla / pHpbb etc etc
I have several websites that I run for various charities or other org's . Many of them do, or have used Drupal, Joomla or pHpbb etc etc. All of these log the IP address. It is very easy to ban an IP add or an email add or a login name. The software gives the admin lots of ways to sort out problems.
If there weren't any problems then none of this would be needed.
Topsy
Mostly Harmless
Not Me
If I have something to say, I say it loud and clear. I sort think everyone knows that by now.
Nancy Cole
"You may be what you resolve to be."
T.J. Jackson
Sounds C.S.I. ish
If you wouldn't say it in front of your mother, better not say it.
If you don't want to sign your name -- BC name -- you probably shouldn't post it.
Seems elementary.
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
Time To Put "Anonymous" To Bed?
The simplest solution is to stop allowing anonymous postings. It's not like this is a nascent board with a paucity of postings, is it?
Personally, I don't see a downside. If someone isn't interested in setting up a login, I'm not interested in anything they have to say, anyway.
i second that motion
i second that motion
for one thing, it seems to me the anonymous posting feature seems -only- to be used for bashing anyways.
Not really
About 5% of recent comments were made anonymously, and only about 5% of those were the rude kind. Which only amounts to just less than half of the rude comments received.
I make a judgement call -- some rude comments I judge to just be unfortunate phrasing and I simply unpub them. Some I judge to be malicious and I may send a warning to the poster as well, if logged-in. Or I may not, just resolving to watch this person.
Sometimes an author judges a comment to be rude and asks for it to be unpubbed. I seldom mention this to the original poster unless they ask.
But a rude comment left as anonymous is a little easier to believe to be malicious. There really aren't that many of them.
Hugs,
Erin
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
So, What You're Saying Is...
...if you disabled the Visitor login, you would get rid of nearly half of the rude comments, and nearly 100% of your need to trace down people by IP address.
But, you don't want to do that, even knowing that is the case. Have I summarized the situation accurately?
to complete the thought
The summary ought to include that she would also be removing, for each rude comment needing tracing, nineteen comments from people who are (at the moment) too fearful or shy or rightfully cautious to create an account.
We know, from what Erin says, that 95% of the anonymous postings are non-malicious, and that anonymous postings make up 50% of all malicious postings. Erin did not tell us what percentage of non-malicious postings, or of total postings, anonymous postings make.
Personally, if Erin sees value in anonymity, to the point that she'd prefer to winnow out the one in twenty rather than banning nineteen of twenty, I don't think we should second-guess her. Or create "summaries" that drop significant information, such as the one-to-nineteen ratio of malicious to non-malicious anonymous postings.
Amy!
Still Incomplete
Interesting point. But, a more interesting question is, do we really need anonymous "Visitor" comments at all? There are plenty of registered users who post comments. There's no need for anyone to comment on a story in order to get most of the benefit of Top Shelf. Anyone can read the posted stories, and the posted comments and blogs. If there's a burning need to comment and participate, why wouldn't someone bother to establish an ID? It's not like it's very hard to get an email account on a public web-based mail service, is it? Besides, you can't blog or post stories without an ID.
The problem with completely anonymous posters is that they have very little investment in the community. Someone who takes the trouble to establish an identity, even if it's with a throwaway gmail account, at least has a little more investment.
How many specialized boards and forums do you know that allow unregistered users to comment? Most don't. And that's because... what? Oh, yeah... the majority of trouble and disruption on a forum comes from unregistered users when they're allowed to participate.
Not quite true
Most of the trouble comes from registered users. :) By a factor of, oh, I dunno 6 or 700? :) LOL.
Really, the unregistered comments are usually not a problem, it's just that in this particular case something was going on that had to be investigated. It turned out NOT to be the worst case scenario but it was pretty bad. Still, that's nothing to having to put out a flamewar between two established and respected authors. :)
Hugs,
Erin
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
i have suggest to friends
to visit here and leave comments, and without the visitor funtion, i suspect that some would not feel comfortable doing so. Plus, sometimes, a "lurker" will come forward and join the family, as indeed i did.
I suspect that a number of
I suspect that a number of unregistered or anonymous users are that way from fear. They don't want to admit that they enjoy TG fiction, or that they may be TG themselves.
As long as Erin is willing to do the work of dealing with the inherent problems of allowing such comments, then why push them "outside the walls"? Being here is obviously no substitute for therapy, but when one lives in a fearful state, then even that first step can be a huge one.
Janice
Audit trail
It's possible some of them don't want to leave any traces of an ID on any computer they use. After all, "visitor" could be anyone who uses a family/work computer, whereas a name may be more revealing.
Penny
Anonymous browsing
If you want to surf and post with absolutely no trace on the host computer (unless internet traffic is being tracked,) get a cheap USB drive (often less than ten bucks) and install portable apps. http://portableapps.com/ Just plug it in, do your thing, then eject it.
Why
A person should take pride in their comments.
It is a time to communicate with your fellow
author and learn from him. If one is hurt by
a comment one should be able to respond to
that person. And ask where have I gone wrong
and can you provide direction. I love the
interplay that takes place when disagreements
occur. It is a time to rejoice because that
means our stories are being read and they are
having an impact. As an author what more could
you want. I think the worst insult is having
no one comment and your work not appreciated.
By appreciated I mean have no impact on the
reader.
I Like Evil Because. . .
First of all, or is it second? Maybe third? I'm lazy. And don't want to take the time to fill out a profile when I can just use the visitor option to leave comments.
If you feel like saying, "It doesn't take long at all," reread earlier portion until it sticks.
Secondly, or thirdly. . .one of them numbers. Pick one.
I've looked at this site as a place of Authors. And therefore if I was to join I'd have to be one as well. So I haven't.
Finding out now that this isn't the case, and I don't have to be one. . .it changes things, but probably not enough.
Various potential number. I'm liking eight at the moment. Some are fond of six but that's okay since wouldn't it be a strange world if we were all the same.
As pointed out by...well it's too... No, if I wanted to I could find out who said it couldn't I. But I don't see it as worth the effort.
Anyway, they said there were those who were shy or unwilling to see themselves for what they might be, or unable to separate what they like from what they think they are, or have difficulty letting themselves walk without being bound by fear of what other people will think of them.
"That's too many and's dear."
"Huh?"
"You'll figure it out."
My point is that joining a site like this is...Feels like a...noticeable step.
"What are you when you're alone and in the dark?"
"Holding a sword, shield, looking around anxiously, and still wishing I had a gun."
If it wasn't for the visitor function, I'd probably never have started posting at all.
Consider your options, do what you think you have to, and I'll do my best to accept that we might end up agreeing to disagree.
In any case, thanks for letting me speak. Or not, if it turns out I was just trying to pick or ended up starting a fight.
No argument here but for one....
The Sign at the front door says this is a place to read, write, and discuss fiction; your comment proves that you're capable of all three. You don't have to be writer to join. I believe it helps you as a writer to join, but this place is a home for all sorts of characters like me, yes? I don't mind at all if you choose not to 'join.' Like you said, if it wasn't for the visitor function, you might never have started posting here. You're not alone in that regard. So whatever you choose to do, o barely described (a-d not confirmed is a nice name) and articulate one, hello and how are you?
Dio vi benedica tutti
Con grande amore e di affetto
Andrea Lena
Love, Andrea Lena
Well said Erin.
I also tend to agree somewhat with what Pippa says insofar as it might be worth closing down the 'anonymous' access for a while to see how it affects the interest and extent of the comments and critiques.
BC is an excellent site and whilst I still post on FM I'm glad Angharad inveigled me to also post on BC. Erin, you manage it well.
Beverly.
Just a wild thought
It has always been my understanding that this is supposed to be a "friendly" place. (Please don't bring up my acerbic comments, they are not germane to this comment as I am, after all, registered.)
So, anyway, as I was saying. Part of friendlyness is extendeing a welcoming hnad to the newcomer, or the random passerby whose eye was caught by something here. Think of this like an electronic version of your public library. They don't stop people at the door and require they become members to use the day to day functions. They are usually happy that somebody wants to read! They may even have a comment box, how did you like our service, that sort of thing.
Allowing visitor comments is one of Erin's ways of making things friendly. Seems like a good idea.
. . .
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until they speak.
I went outside once. The graphics weren' that great.
Anonymous posting
I'm the oddball, I registered years before I posted any comments, and my 'name' is my amateur radio license, which if looked up in the FCC's database will reveal my name and address. So I'm not too concerned about being identified. I'm also not TG. If I was, I could see being very scared about being identified, because, well, people get killed over this. Being able to post anonymously may be the only way some can participate, given their situation. This site seems to be a very positive thing in many people's lives, I'd like to see that continue to the greatest extent possible. Erin and everyone else are to be commended for what they have created here. 95% of anonymous posts being constructive is pretty good, in my book. Just so long as the 5% of bad eggs is a small enough real number that Erin is comfortable dealing with it.
Yours,
JohnBobMead
Yours,
John Robert Mead