I am doing a Challenge story where a T-Girl talks about how she is different from genetic girls and how she copes with being different. I hope that I will do justice to my friends here. I respect all of you and hope that my respect shows through.
Stan,with all due respect,I suggest that you go back to Andrea's offering
on only a T girl knows.Unless you are in that category it is not in your realm
of understanding,so why upset people.Life is hard enough for us as it is,why make
it harder.Sorry!
A good start would be to scrap "T-Girl". That is one of several variations near and dear to the heart? of the porn industry, and is considered an insult by many of us.
To tell someone they "can never understand" is to shut them out. "You can never understand" is an isolating statement. It is a negative statement of the greatest magnitude, never used as a means to enlightenment, or a path to friendship. Instead it is a means of ending communication, a way of saying "this discussion is over". Without discussion there can be no learning. Without learning there can be no understanding. And without understanding there is little hope for tolerance.
In a community that prides itself on friendship and a family-like atmosphere, populated by those who are often enraged by the intolerance the world throws at them, uttering any statement that does not promote understanding is just adding to the problem.
We have all been hurt in many different ways. Just because your hurt is different from mine doesn't make it any more or less real, any more or less important. Until you understand that, intolerance will continue to flourish.
A more positive response might be to offer Stan some help with his story. The fact that he's writing it shows he's attempting to understand. But he needs to be met halfway.
The members of a community help and support each other, do they not?
Is there not one person here who can give a supportive response to Stan? If not, then I fear this "community" has failed a very important test.
...you might consider asking for help, as it seems you'd already anticipated some here being upset or hurt. Try sitting down and discussing the point of view of the person you want to portray, rather than post a story with little understanding. Every story you write comes from your own perspective as a man; you make that distinction yourself quite frequently in your comments. There's nothing wrong with that, but it does indicate that you already anticipate problems in how you interpret how we feel. Why not take the time to ask Ang or Bev or Joanne or Steph or any of the other authors or readers here? Wouldn't that make more sense? I understand Vessica's point about this being a friendly place. But at the same time, you're the one who frequently calls attention to our distinctions, and that makes me sad. If you want to know how we feel before you write, all you have to do is ask.
Dio vi benedica tutti
Con grande amore e di affetto
Andrea Lena
Well, I want to see what you write. I find that outside viewpoints on what I see on the inside can be interesting. In the end trying to communicate what being T is like is somewhat like describing what it's like to have a tail. We know what tails are and can imagine to a degree what it's like, but in the end, we don't have the common vocabulary to really get to the essence.
And having some experience reading and chatting with folks here, there are going to be different sensibilities, opinions, and experiences over a wide spectrum.
Looking forward to your story,
Janet
Mistress of the Guild of Evil [Strawberry] Blonde Proofreaders
You can be as well intended as you like, but if you try to write a manual on refridgerator repair without knowing about it, it won't turn out too well. Anything less than seeking out someone who has been through what you want to depict or going through it yourself is pure specualation and a waste of time. I'm not a t-girl...I'm a woman, and as long as you continue to make that distinction, you won't understand me because you're just not listening!
I personally would be interested in seeing your thoughts on how you "see" the issue. I'm not sure if I would fit your criteria to be a T-Girl (I hate that name, just so you know). I consider myself to be transgendered, but I don't currently crossdress. If this diet works, well...
I don't think I would be interested in writing for this challenge, but, as I said, I'll read your story, and I promise not to get upset.
Keep in mind that this is a fairly unique genre' in terms of authorship. While there might be a handful of real detectives writing stories about detective work, I'm fairly sure, Stanley, that there aren't any real time lords, aliens or elves that post on fiction sites with those genre'. Here, however, you're faced with something a wee bit different. Most of us here consider ourselves to be connected personally with the subject of which we write; transgendered folks I suppose. Not to put too fine a point on it, but citing your own explanations of the recent past, but you're not transgendered. This is a highly personal expression for many of us, and you've already wondered out loud if this truly might find some folks upset. Maybe you can, as some have suggested, seek out the viewpoints of those folks in your circle of friends who are transgendered and find out what they think and feel about that premise you discuss. Then, having a better understanding rather than blind speculation, you'll be better prepared to write your story. I might remind you that we who are transgendered probably don't need someone to remind us of just how different we are from 'genetic' girls. Our own bodies and hearts and minds already remind us of that every day. Just a suggestion, however. You will write what you will. Anne
My good friend Dimelza said she wanted to write good stories that happen to have a TG element.
I've written several of my stories in non-TG versions and they've stood that test, thank goodness.
Maybe you could take a look at following her general theme so that your portrayal of how a transgendered person thinks isn;t quite so brutally off key. (Who knows. The T experience is so varied you may have hit on a strain that I've not met.)
Like others, I read several of your early stories but found them personally demeaning.
I get enough of that in real life and don't need any more here.
Don't take my criticism personally. For years I felt like a second citizen on FM because I write CD stories. There are even those here who think CD stories are poor cousins to stories that feature transsexuals. So it goes.
Heck if I know. If I had a twin there is still no way for me to know how that twin felt.
Now as to me personally, the term "T-Girl" does bother me a tiny bit but not so much as I'd lose any sleep about it. What am I? Again, heck if I know. I seem to be Honey-Nut Cheerios packaged as a box of Wheaties. I know I don't 'feel' like what I've been told all my life a male is supposed to feel. For me I 'fit' better, inside my head, as a woman, that's how I see myself. But I've talked to women who can't seem to get how I feel so maybe I'm a third gender. Both genetic women and men don't/can't seem to get/understand me and what I'm going through, so maybe I'm something else.
I do know that there as so many out there who never even try to understand that I truly appreciate, if not the way, at least the attempt when someone does make the effort.
As for my 2 cents worth, maybe post it as a blog first and open it up for friendly debate or as others have suggested, send a draft to those willing to give their opinion.
Stan you've always be gracious enough to leave a kind worded comment on my stories and I thank you for trying. For trying when so very many do not.
There is a range of variation in what can be called transgendered behaviour. I include cross-dressing in that to the extent that it is done for reasons of 'comfort', but I tend to exclude the sexual gratification aspect. So sue me, but I insist on separating the sexuality and gender aspects. Now, last year Pippa linked to a famous Portuguese-English dictionary, which was written by a non-English speaker. That is the best way to put that across. I could write a book about a fighter pilot in the Vietnam War, but as I am neither from the USA, nor from Australia, I would be doing it from research. There is also the small point that I have never flown an aircraft...so any pilot would probably pick up on the errors, or where I had placed the wrong emphasis. My writing would thus work up to the point where someone who had 'been there' picked it up.
That is your problem here. I will not say to someone "You can never understand', but I will say 'You can never feel it in the same way'. Now, people are people. We all have needs beyond food and drink, and to a very large extent those needs are best described as social. We want to fit in, to be accepted, perhaps to be loved. That isn't about sex, it's about human contact. Being held by someone is of far greater importance than having sex with them, and that is where the adolescent has it wrong. To be held means to be accepted.
Me? I have known what I was since I was old enough to know there was a difference. I did what I could to survive, with my family background being a bit...macho. I was out at college, but not extravagently so, and when time came to go home afterwards I followed the option used by Renee Richards and a couple of my characters and grew a beard. The hypermasculine compensatory behaviour, rugby, bad-ass biker, they all followed that. It's a pretty standard pattern, and it was only in later years that I started down the road I needed to take. Now, what is that road?
Stan, I am not a girl. I missed out on that, I have never been, physically, a girl. What I am is a woman. Fatter than I would like, ugly, fit from cycling, but first and foremost female. What has happened to my body is not what I am, for that has always been the same. Not a T-girl, not a tranny, not anything other than an ordinary woman with some pretty severe but no longer life-threatening birth defects. I could go on about mind-body disparity, and so on, but there is no need. All I have ever wanted is simply to be me, and accepted as what I have always been. Simple as that.
Now, to go back to the 'understanding'. Anyone with a soul can understand my situation, and that of others here, but only those who are in the grinder can feel its teeth.
You will write whatever pleases yourself without regard to the feelings of this community.
I cannot read your stories although you are literate in your writing your plots escape my understanding.
I always read the commenters opinions of your efforts as I find them entertaining and constructive. Perhaps you could learn from the more positive ones if you cared to listen?
Did I say no comment? Please forgive me but hope you understand my comment.
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Comments
T girls.
ALISON
Stan,with all due respect,I suggest that you go back to Andrea's offering
on only a T girl knows.Unless you are in that category it is not in your realm
of understanding,so why upset people.Life is hard enough for us as it is,why make
it harder.Sorry!
ALISON
A good start would be to
A good start would be to scrap "T-Girl". That is one of several variations near and dear to the heart? of the porn industry, and is considered an insult by many of us.
CaroL
CaroL
To tell someone they "can
To tell someone they "can never understand" is to shut them out. "You can never understand" is an isolating statement. It is a negative statement of the greatest magnitude, never used as a means to enlightenment, or a path to friendship. Instead it is a means of ending communication, a way of saying "this discussion is over". Without discussion there can be no learning. Without learning there can be no understanding. And without understanding there is little hope for tolerance.
In a community that prides itself on friendship and a family-like atmosphere, populated by those who are often enraged by the intolerance the world throws at them, uttering any statement that does not promote understanding is just adding to the problem.
We have all been hurt in many different ways. Just because your hurt is different from mine doesn't make it any more or less real, any more or less important. Until you understand that, intolerance will continue to flourish.
A more positive response might be to offer Stan some help with his story. The fact that he's writing it shows he's attempting to understand. But he needs to be met halfway.
The members of a community help and support each other, do they not?
Is there not one person here who can give a supportive response to Stan? If not, then I fear this "community" has failed a very important test.
- vessica b
If you really do respect us?
...you might consider asking for help, as it seems you'd already anticipated some here being upset or hurt. Try sitting down and discussing the point of view of the person you want to portray, rather than post a story with little understanding. Every story you write comes from your own perspective as a man; you make that distinction yourself quite frequently in your comments. There's nothing wrong with that, but it does indicate that you already anticipate problems in how you interpret how we feel. Why not take the time to ask Ang or Bev or Joanne or Steph or any of the other authors or readers here? Wouldn't that make more sense? I understand Vessica's point about this being a friendly place. But at the same time, you're the one who frequently calls attention to our distinctions, and that makes me sad. If you want to know how we feel before you write, all you have to do is ask.
Dio vi benedica tutti
Con grande amore e di affetto
Andrea Lena
Love, Andrea Lena
What it's like to have a tail...
Well, I want to see what you write. I find that outside viewpoints on what I see on the inside can be interesting. In the end trying to communicate what being T is like is somewhat like describing what it's like to have a tail. We know what tails are and can imagine to a degree what it's like, but in the end, we don't have the common vocabulary to really get to the essence.
And having some experience reading and chatting with folks here, there are going to be different sensibilities, opinions, and experiences over a wide spectrum.
Looking forward to your story,
Janet
Mistress of the Guild of Evil [Strawberry] Blonde Proofreaders
To be or not to be... ask Schrodinger's cat.
Janet
Mistress of the Guild of Evil [Strawberry] Blonde Proofreaders
To be or not to be... ask Schrodinger's cat.
Ir's not a matter of respect.
You can be as well intended as you like, but if you try to write a manual on refridgerator repair without knowing about it, it won't turn out too well. Anything less than seeking out someone who has been through what you want to depict or going through it yourself is pure specualation and a waste of time. I'm not a t-girl...I'm a woman, and as long as you continue to make that distinction, you won't understand me because you're just not listening!
Belle
It could cause some people to be angry, but...
I personally would be interested in seeing your thoughts on how you "see" the issue. I'm not sure if I would fit your criteria to be a T-Girl (I hate that name, just so you know). I consider myself to be transgendered, but I don't currently crossdress. If this diet works, well...
I don't think I would be interested in writing for this challenge, but, as I said, I'll read your story, and I promise not to get upset.
Wren
Genre'
Keep in mind that this is a fairly unique genre' in terms of authorship. While there might be a handful of real detectives writing stories about detective work, I'm fairly sure, Stanley, that there aren't any real time lords, aliens or elves that post on fiction sites with those genre'. Here, however, you're faced with something a wee bit different. Most of us here consider ourselves to be connected personally with the subject of which we write; transgendered folks I suppose. Not to put too fine a point on it, but citing your own explanations of the recent past, but you're not transgendered. This is a highly personal expression for many of us, and you've already wondered out loud if this truly might find some folks upset. Maybe you can, as some have suggested, seek out the viewpoints of those folks in your circle of friends who are transgendered and find out what they think and feel about that premise you discuss. Then, having a better understanding rather than blind speculation, you'll be better prepared to write your story. I might remind you that we who are transgendered probably don't need someone to remind us of just how different we are from 'genetic' girls. Our own bodies and hearts and minds already remind us of that every day. Just a suggestion, however. You will write what you will. Anne
Dimelza Said
My good friend Dimelza said she wanted to write good stories that happen to have a TG element.
I've written several of my stories in non-TG versions and they've stood that test, thank goodness.
Maybe you could take a look at following her general theme so that your portrayal of how a transgendered person thinks isn;t quite so brutally off key. (Who knows. The T experience is so varied you may have hit on a strain that I've not met.)
Like others, I read several of your early stories but found them personally demeaning.
I get enough of that in real life and don't need any more here.
Don't take my criticism personally. For years I felt like a second citizen on FM because I write CD stories. There are even those here who think CD stories are poor cousins to stories that feature transsexuals. So it goes.
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
What's it like?
Heck if I know. If I had a twin there is still no way for me to know how that twin felt.
Now as to me personally, the term "T-Girl" does bother me a tiny bit but not so much as I'd lose any sleep about it. What am I? Again, heck if I know. I seem to be Honey-Nut Cheerios packaged as a box of Wheaties. I know I don't 'feel' like what I've been told all my life a male is supposed to feel. For me I 'fit' better, inside my head, as a woman, that's how I see myself. But I've talked to women who can't seem to get how I feel so maybe I'm a third gender. Both genetic women and men don't/can't seem to get/understand me and what I'm going through, so maybe I'm something else.
I do know that there as so many out there who never even try to understand that I truly appreciate, if not the way, at least the attempt when someone does make the effort.
As for my 2 cents worth, maybe post it as a blog first and open it up for friendly debate or as others have suggested, send a draft to those willing to give their opinion.
Stan you've always be gracious enough to leave a kind worded comment on my stories and I thank you for trying. For trying when so very many do not.
Peace and love,
Connie
I will reply as best I can
There is a range of variation in what can be called transgendered behaviour. I include cross-dressing in that to the extent that it is done for reasons of 'comfort', but I tend to exclude the sexual gratification aspect. So sue me, but I insist on separating the sexuality and gender aspects. Now, last year Pippa linked to a famous Portuguese-English dictionary, which was written by a non-English speaker. That is the best way to put that across. I could write a book about a fighter pilot in the Vietnam War, but as I am neither from the USA, nor from Australia, I would be doing it from research. There is also the small point that I have never flown an aircraft...so any pilot would probably pick up on the errors, or where I had placed the wrong emphasis. My writing would thus work up to the point where someone who had 'been there' picked it up.
That is your problem here. I will not say to someone "You can never understand', but I will say 'You can never feel it in the same way'. Now, people are people. We all have needs beyond food and drink, and to a very large extent those needs are best described as social. We want to fit in, to be accepted, perhaps to be loved. That isn't about sex, it's about human contact. Being held by someone is of far greater importance than having sex with them, and that is where the adolescent has it wrong. To be held means to be accepted.
Me? I have known what I was since I was old enough to know there was a difference. I did what I could to survive, with my family background being a bit...macho. I was out at college, but not extravagently so, and when time came to go home afterwards I followed the option used by Renee Richards and a couple of my characters and grew a beard. The hypermasculine compensatory behaviour, rugby, bad-ass biker, they all followed that. It's a pretty standard pattern, and it was only in later years that I started down the road I needed to take. Now, what is that road?
Stan, I am not a girl. I missed out on that, I have never been, physically, a girl. What I am is a woman. Fatter than I would like, ugly, fit from cycling, but first and foremost female. What has happened to my body is not what I am, for that has always been the same. Not a T-girl, not a tranny, not anything other than an ordinary woman with some pretty severe but no longer life-threatening birth defects. I could go on about mind-body disparity, and so on, but there is no need. All I have ever wanted is simply to be me, and accepted as what I have always been. Simple as that.
Now, to go back to the 'understanding'. Anyone with a soul can understand my situation, and that of others here, but only those who are in the grinder can feel its teeth.
No comment.
You will write whatever pleases yourself without regard to the feelings of this community.
I cannot read your stories although you are literate in your writing your plots escape my understanding.
I always read the commenters opinions of your efforts as I find them entertaining and constructive. Perhaps you could learn from the more positive ones if you cared to listen?
Did I say no comment? Please forgive me but hope you understand my comment.