not good practices

Some of you will not like what I have to say, but I say it in all honor and meekness. If you are male or inter-sexed and want to be a woman, then I think it is fair to expect to obey the social mores that genetic women do. This means, not using a tonne of makeup and making your eyes look like two black caverns. Every woman I know wears little enough makeup that certain of their skin flaws are still visible.

When conversing with other women, you, because of your special situation, must talk to others about themselves, and almost never yourselves. People like to talk about themselves, but if you talk about yourself you draw unwanted attention.

If your objective is to be accepted, then you must strive to look like other women. I do not call the women who hang about in clubs and taverns to be desirable to emulate. If you are 25, and your goals are not to be accepted, lets face it, you will never be able to compete with a genetic woman full stop. If you were in a club Saturday night dancing your heart out, what you had on should be different on Sunday if you are attending church.

I was told by this woman to among other things to wear more make up. Hah !

She has also stated to me that she is going to bring members of the gay and T community into our church. I am not sure what her goals are. If she is there to worship Heavenly Father that is one thing. If she is there to draw attention to herself and those she brings ...

Gwen

Unless she moved to Oregon in

Unless she moved to Oregon in the last few weeks it's most likely not the same person. It says in the report that she was charged Monday, so unless this article is very old she is still likely in Idaho.

I'm sorry but...

I agree with Ang and Gwen... if you want to be accepted as and treated as a woman, you had BETTER behave as one!

I still have my unwanted organ but I would never use it as a man does! Unless I absolutely have to for some reason... though I can't imagine any situation in which I'd have to do so.

So no, in this case this individual gets no sympathy from me... They chose to act in a manner that was inappropriate, now they will reap what they sowed.

Abigail Drew.

and I'm sorry too but...

how does a woman behave? (other than not standing up to pee)

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You can't choose your relatives but you can choose your family.

If you can't answer that one.

Do go out dressed as one.

I don't need to answer it

If I were to attempt to compile a list of ways a woman might behave I'd run out of paper before I ran out of behaviour.
If I were to compile a list of ways ALL women behaved then the page would be empty.

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You can't choose your relatives but you can choose your family.

Not empty...

There are at least a few universal behaviors. Or at least very damned close to and women who don't follow them would be at best social pariahs... As a trans woman who doesn't follow them, you'll be branded as a man pretending to be a woman, you'll draw attention to yourself in ways no actual trans woman I know would ever want to.

One of these is how one utilizes the facilities. They might not necessarily SIT to relieve themselves, but they will at the least squat, feet STILL facing the stall door, away from the toilet.

I'll give you that it also differs somewhat in other cultures, but we're talking about Idaho here. Public restrooms in Idaho aren't going to have foreign-style restrooms.

Another is gossip. Many women will CLAIM not to participate even whilst going right along and sharing their own juicy tidbits. We really can't help ourselves. There are men out there who can... But no woman I've ever known can fully resist the urge to gossip.

Though I do have to admit, considering Erin's comments as well as a few others, that we have PERHAPS been a little too hasty... If the individual is not the one Gwen knows, but someone else, and the reports have been somewhat falsified... I wouldn't put it past Idaho to be discriminating against her just because she doesn't pass well.

Though I find it suspicious rather than acquitting that she doesn't mention her behavior. I would expect her to deny it quite adamantly if she was being falsely accused. And if I were in her position, I wouldn't be waiting for the reporter to ask me about it. I'd be finding out exactly what I'm accused of ASAP by whatever means possible and if the allegations are untrue, I'd be making darned sure my denial was being heard.

If on the other hand the allegations are true... and the individual is being mum about it because of that... and plans to go to court to try to push for "us" to be allowed to piss like a man in a womans loo... I'm quite rightfully disgusted by them. This behavior isn't going to do real trans folk any good and will quite likely actually set us back. A lot.

Abigail Drew.

I can't describe it, but I

I can't describe it, but I know it when I see it.

If you want to be accepted as a woman, then don't stand to pee in the loo.

Even when I'm in the woods...

I still have to present as male for much of my time in public due to family and work; however, when using the restroom, I always use the stall (in the men's room) and sit. I do this at church, at work and at home. When I go camping or hiking and need to relieve myself without the benefit of an enclosure, I go behind a tree or bush and squat. I can't remember the last time I stood to relieve myself.

Hugs
Patricia

Happiness is being all dressed up and HAVING some place to go.
Semper in femineo gerunt
Ich bin eine Mann

Doing business in a ladies room, standing?

There are any number of things wrong with that, not the least of which is, dumb! When one is trans, and one is attempting to emulate the desired gender, one complies with social norms and behaviors, which includes SITTING to do one's "business."

There's an old phrase which applies here. Go along to GET along. Unless one is a drama queen or someone deliberately flaunting one's gender differences in the faces of those who might be offended by them, then one needs to comply with what is expected, especially in such places as a ladies rest room.

What's next for this person? Walking around in shorts with an unsightly bulge in "her" crotch? Disgusting, IMHO, and detrimental to what we are trying to accomplish regarding acceptance. Had I been in that room, I would have objected to "her" practice of standing to relieve "herself" as well. Seems to me that this person is probably NOT transsexual, but a crossdresser flaunting himself in some twisted behavior. Why? Who the hell knows. Get some therapy.

As my old pal Bugs Bunny would have said: "Whatta maroon!"

a disgusted Catherine Linda Michel said that!

As a T-woman, I do have a Y chromosome... it's just in cursive, pink script.

which way was she facing?

I mean, was it male pose hands down there to direct... or? Door open? I know and have observed more than a few women who will NOT sit on a public loo. They straddle and squat a little and let go.

I do acknowledge where most of the above comments are coming from and basically agree, there is maybe a but though. All depends.

I notice something

Only one person, the one trying to enforce a ban, says that someone was standing to piss in a women's bathroom.

Two things; first, any corroborating evidence?

And, I've known lots of women who will not sit down in a public restroom.

Judgement withheld because I just do not know what is actually going on.

Hugs,
Erin

= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.

If several customers boycott

said store and it's parent chain, they will recant their attitude.

Stanman
May Your Light Forever Shine

Quoted from the story: "A

Quoted from the story: "A transgender woman whose use of a women's restroom in an Idaho grocery store reportedly upset other customers..." Customers... indicating that there were several if not many reports of this person's behavior.

Again, quoting from the story: "...the store had reported that Robledo's use of the restroom made other female customers "very uncomfortable." Again, the story indicates that there were several if not many reports of this person's behavior.

I do understand that women will "hover"in a public restroom, not wanting to dirty themselves, or risk disease on a seat that may not be sanitary, but I don't think that would have been an issue in this case. I will grant you that IF this person had been"hovering", facing the door or the restroom, in other words, with her feet facing the right way, the complaints might have been deemed somewhat suspicious, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

What I read, from the story, is that this person was standing with "her" feet facing the toilet, peeing as a man does, and that is just not acceptable behavior in a women's public restroom unless it is a non-gender specific room.

Again I will grant that no one who is directly employed by the store is reported to have observed the alleged behavior, but that it was reportedly observed by a number of customers indicates that my assumption of the person's stance is correct, and therefore, incorrect behavior.

Common sense and common decency dictate that if one is attempting to present oneself as a member of a non birth gender, one abides by the general customs and behavior of the gender in which one is attempting to present themselves. I have used the ladies restrooms since the beginning of my transition and my RLT, and I have never received a single complaint about my behavior because I SIT or hover, facing the door of the cubicle when doing my "business."

From the story, and the backstory, related by a member of this site, I glean that this person is somewhat of a self appointed activist, promoting "her" own ideas of gender acceptance. "To get along, you GO along." I said that before, and I'll repeat it here. When presenting yourself as a female, when born biologically as a male, you mimic the behavior and customs of the females around you unless you are SEEKING their attention and complaints.

The person in the story needs some therapy. In my mind this is a given. "Her" ideas of gender acceptance run counter to what a transsexual woman wants in her life and therefore, "she is not a transsexual, but a transvestite attempting to force "her" wants upon genetic females.

IMHO the store did the proper thing. After all, they are in business to make money and anything that drives customers away from their store is counter productive and not to be allowed. Additionally, the person in the story increased the non-acceptance of other, real, transsexuals by drawing attention to "her" behavior.

The comments in this post are MY opinions and should be given no more credence than that. Your mileage may vary.

A still disgusted and disheartened Catherine Linda Michel said that.

As a T-woman, I do have a Y chromosome... it's just in cursive, pink script.

I've read versions of this

I've read versions of this story that make no reference to standing to urinate (which if she did was more than a bit stupid) and instead reference to the appearance of a male using the woman's restrooms (which could be a comment about passing?). Also in none of the reports is there any comment from the woman in question about whether she stood to pee which given there are other quotes from her seems a bit odd as I would have thought that would be the first question asked by a journalist to establish the truth of a story (i.e. did you do the thing you are accussed of?).

I think reserving judgement before the full facts are known might be a good idea. It's heartening though to see from the comments here that people have so much faith in the accuracy of news reporting these days because oddly I thought that bias in news reporting was at an all time high these days...

"Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it."

I got to agree with the last

I got to agree with the last part of what you said. The only person that is accusing her in the article is a security officer, there isn't anything from the offended women. The reporter doesn't even have to be biased the person/people accusing her could just be going on what they think she is doing in there. I could just see them working out in their head what must be happening in there and telling the reporter that. And obviously women are uncomfortable about it, they just don't want to start a fuss so I, the big tough security officer, will take care of it.

not good practices

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If the individual

I think I know this woman.