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I am considering throwing the towel in on much of what I do; giving some of it up as a lost cause. So that leaves me with much time. Years ago, I was very interested in Astronomy and am thinking of taking it up again. Starting very modestly, my dream scope would be a 14" with an astronomical drive and a very nice CCD camera on it. I know that many very high quality Reflectors have been built in a garage; even hand grinding the Mirror.
Can anyone offer me some good advice?
Gwen
Comments
Telescopes
Try oriontelescopes.com. I bought a 10 inch reflector at a very reasonable price. A very good past time for an amature astronomer is comet hunting. If you have a very good telescope, maybe astroid hunting as well. If you are the first to find one, it will be named after you. Unfortuately, I live in Saint Louis, so have light problems. I long for a country home with dark skies. Long live Sagan!
Hilltopper
Hilltopper
Telescope making
You might try:
http://telescopemaking.org/
http://www.atmsite.org/
The type of telescope you need depends entirely on what you want to do and your personal situation, so you should, if possible, join a local astronomy club and start talking to the members about what works best in your area, for your interests, and on your budget.
A good pair of astronomical binoculars and a simple tripod that one uses every starry night is better than a large telescope with all the bells and whistles that sits in the garage because it's too much trouble to haul around and set up.
Likewise, if your location is in the middle of a largish city, easy portability may be the key to real enjoyment because this allows you to access truly dark skies. There have been amateurs who've built trailer-mounted telescopes so they have the freedom to move a large telescope easily and set it up with a minimum of effort. Others have built sheds with roll-off roofs, or even domes, if they're blessed with dark skies and a largish back yard.
Astronomy is one of the very few sciences left in which amateurs can make real contributions, in part because the skies are so vast, and so many things are waiting to be done, that there aren't nearly enough eyes to observe them and hands ready to set down the findings.
Cheers,
Puddin'
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http://www.celestron.com/
http://www.meade.com/
http://www.telescope.com/ Orion Telescopes
It may be possible to find better prices through any of the many retailers who advertise in Sky and Telescope or Astronomy, and used telescopes are often quite readily available.
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Cheers,
Puddin'
A tender heart is an asset to an editor: it helps us be ruthless in a tactful way.
--- The Chicago Manual of Style
Hi, Gwen; I love astronomy
Hi, Gwen; I love astronomy too.
Sounds like your interested in doing some astrophotography with the kind of set-up you describe and there are a lot of directions you can go in that field from what I've read of it (most of my experience has been strictly visual observational astronomy; the only astrophotography I've done is of auroras - Northern Lights - doing short exposures on a tripod-mounted 35mm SLR camera).
Hilltopper's correct in saying that Orion telescopes has a good rep from all reports; they offer a good variety of of good quality equipment (I'm considering a purchase from them as I write this) some of which would offer an excellent "for value" introduction to astronomical photography (their StarShoot Pro CCD camera got a very good review in the February issue of Sky & Telescope magazine). I'd also recommend you invest in a good laser collimator to keep your scopes optical alignment with in specs; shipping them across county or bumping into your scope in the dark has a funny way of knocking them out of true.
http://www.telescope.com/control/main/
Unlike some braver souls, I've no desire to grind glass. A teacher of mine years ago made his own mirrors by hand and while I know it can be immensely rewarding I also know that it can be extremely labour and time intensive, even when it comes to relatively small mirrors such as one for a 6 or 8 inch diameter Newtonian reflector. For myself I'd rather spend the time and effort looking through an eyepiece.
Unlike Puddintane, I wouldn't recommend tripod-mounted binoculars unless the tripod come up to a comfortable height. I prefer a more relaxed approach using a folding lawn lounger and a pair of good 8x50 or 10x50 binoculars. Of course, if you wanted to get fancy, you could invest in a Bigha StarSeeker Binocular chair or a pair of JMI reverse binoculars! I do very much agree with Puddin' on seeking out a local amateur astronomy club in your area.
http://www.bigha.com/buy/index_starseeker.php
http://www.jimsmobile.com/buy_rb16.htm#Product
I think if you've been away from the sky for awhile, the best thing you could do is invest in a good pair of lightweight binoculars - again 8x50's or 10x50's - or a small 6 or 8" Newtonian reflector on a Dobsonian mount (Orion has some very popular Dobs). Small Dobsonians are good as they're easy to transport, assemble and use. Also, a good book like Terence Dickinson's "Nightwatch: A Practical Guide to Viewing the Universe" or "The Backyard Astronomer's Guide" (both available through Amazon.com) is indispensable.
For your so-called "dream scope" you would seriously have to consider a backyard or remote observatory at a good dark sky site and operate it via the Internet. Ideally the darker the site the better, but fortunately astronomical CCD cameras are better suited to imaging from light polluted areas than the old film-based cameras could ever hope to be and can still produce some spectacular images. In that case a good roll-off roof or domed observatory would be a necessity as humping a heavy 14" diameter scope and it's even heavier equatorial mount - plus all the ancillary equipment - would get real old real fast.
http://www.skyshed.com
http://www.astrohaven.com
http://www.homedome.com
http://www.explora-dome.com
http://www.siriusobservatories.com
As for my own "dream scope", it'd be a 20 or 24" RCOS Ritchey-Chretien piggybacking either a 6" TMB or Takahashi fluorite apochromatic refractor and utilizing a dedicated astroguider and an SBIG STL1100CM CCD camera - if the lottery gods ever smile on my ticket!
http://www.rcopticalsystems.com
Hope this helps!
Claire
"All vertebrate embryos are inherently female..." - Dr. Henry Wu, Jurassic Park
"All vertebrate embryos are inherently female..." - Dr. Henry Wu, Jurassic Park
Binoculars
I've seen many very clever arrangements for binocular viewing with relatively high power coupled with large objectives, which makes hand-held use problematic for many reasons.
Here are a few examples:
http://www.astronomybuff.com/binoculars-astronomy-tripod/
I once saw a fellow who had his reclining lawnchair and binocular setup mounted on a powered turntable, so he didn't even have to get out of the chair to swing around to look at a different part of the sky.
Binoculars are especially handy for older viewers, as it's easy to get either a "crick" in your neck or a backache (possibly both) standing or sitting at a telescope for any length of time. They capture some of the feel of looking at the *real* sky as well, since one uses both eyes, and the combination of CCD camera optics and video displays seems a little too much like watching a documentary on TV to me.
In cold weather, the ability to bundle up in a reclining chair can make the whole experience rather more satisfying as well, as one doesn't have to stand or sit in the open, and your layers of insulation can be rather thicker than would be advisable around a telescope. I have a pair of Celestron SkyMaster 20x100 binoculars and would not trade them for a monster telescope of any sort, because they're so very handy. I can use them just as easily to spot foxes in an open field at night, or nesting birds, because they pull in quite a bit of light. Having that sort of vision at night makes one feel a little like an owl, and there are *lots* of things to see, even on overcast nights.
They're also nice for sharing, because the naiive user doesn't have a learning curve to surmount, thinking of things as mirror images of reality, because what you see with the naked eye is what you see through binoculars, only better.
I agree that even smallish hand-holdable binoculars are nice as well, and certainly handier to pack along on a hike, but for general cameraderie *combined* with interesting things to see, large-objective binoculars are hard to beat.
Back in the olden days, such large binoculars designed for mounting on a pelorus were readily (and cheaply) available as war surplus, as the Navy used them on the bridge. I once purchased a naval five inch spotting scope (one supposes they were used to check the aim of one's *big* guns) for a hundred and fifty US dollars. Of course, money was considerly more valuable in those days, but I'm sure it had cost the Navy *many* thousands. It had a turret with several lenses and an inline section that allowed one to flip various filters in and out of the optical path, all in a waterproof housing.
Puddin'
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Cheers,
Puddin'
A tender heart is an asset to an editor: it helps us be ruthless in a tactful way.
--- The Chicago Manual of Style
Grinding Lenses not for the inexperienced
It takes more than a few tries to get the grinding right.
And the blanks are expensive.
I recommend buying a mirror (primary and secondary) and then
building a telescope around it.
I too am into astronomy, even taken a course in it in college. I have heard many horror stories about building your own mirror. Just too many imperfections that cause bluring and waving.
oh and here is a link to the VSO so you can do 'useful' stuff not just random looking.
http://www.aavso.org/
When the lottery genie smiles on my tickets. I will get into
blink comparitors and go asteroid hunting.
Dayna.
ps. CraigsList.Org may have one you can afford.
Building a telescope...
The best way to start is as a part of a club effort, as *someone* there will have the necessary skills and be available as an advisor. I helped build such a telescope (an eight-inch Newtonian reflector) when I was young, and (aside from the overwhelming numbers of boys and men cramping my style) it was a very valuable and interesting experience. With care, and modern testing tools, you can easily achieve quality as good as or better than a commercial scope, so it may be worth doing even at the current low prices for reasonably good quality telescopes of all sorts.
I wouldn't try anything much more complicated than a Newtonian reflector the first time out of the gate, but then I'm not all that ambitious. Anything is possible with courage and determination, as long as it's coupled with access to good advise from somewhere.
Long focal length Schmidt-Cassegrain scopes are fairly popular to build for amateurs, because spherical lenses are fairly easy to test for quality control during grinding, so as long as a compact form factor isn't a requirement, they can be fairly cheap and easy to build. Having has the experience, I wouldn't be afraid to do it again, but am rather too lazy to start. They're cheap enough these days, in a bewildering variety of styles, that it's not worth the effort for me, but there is a certain satisfaction from making your own tools.
Puddin'
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Cheers,
Puddin'
A tender heart is an asset to an editor: it helps us be ruthless in a tactful way.
--- The Chicago Manual of Style
Another Amateur Astronomer
You mentioned your dream scope but what kind of objects would you most like to view? Do you like planets, multiple stars, open star clusters, globular star clusters, nebulas, galaxies or all of the above?
Some of the deep sky objects will require a larger scope for satisfying viewing but you still might want to start out small and view the brighter, more easily resolved objects. I have to agree that the portability of binoculars makes them hard to beat. I have an 8 inch Newtonian Reflector (Orion) that I never get out any more. It has an equatorial mount that is just too bulky and heavy. Ugh.
I started with two inch refractors, and I eventually got a nice Unitron refractor that is fairly portable. I can recommend refractors for planets, double stars and open star clusters.
I never got a Dobsonian but I came close. Their simplicity (= relatively low price) and fairly good portability make them a good choice for deep sky objects. I don't think they resolve planets and double stars as well though. I seem to remember that they can change to focus through a clear spot past the secondary mirror, though that makes the effective aperture much smaller.
Good luck deciding. :)
- Terry
Dobsonian Telescopes...
The heart of the Dobsonian telescope is really the simple (and cheap) altazimuth mount, but the classic Dobsonian is a simple Newtonian reflector, and doesn't have the good contrast one would prefer in a planetary scope because of the necessary central obstruction. I've seen folded designs used as "Dobsonians," most using some variation of the Yolo or Schiefspiegler design, which requires very careful mirror design to eliminate the coma and astigmatism that the off-axis "twist" builds in while it eliminates most of the typical diffraction errors which reduce contrast in the classical Newtonian. Everything's a tradeoff, but one can do serious planetary work with such a telescope.
The addition of a Poncet Platform or "rocker mount" -- or even driving the altazimuthal axes directly -- can add computerised tracking, so with the help of a computer even guided photography and "starfinding" is possible.
One notes that there are quite a few serious research telescopes built on altazimuth mounts these days, since computers are cheap. The twin Keck Telescopes, the world's largest optical and and infrared telescopes, are built around altazimuth mounts, for example, because equatorial mounting would be prohibitively expensive and probably impractical for such large mirrors in any case. One might, therefore, think of them as *really* big Dobsonians, or even Dobsonian binoculars, although it's most often used as an interferometer.
Puddin'
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Cheers,
Puddin'
A tender heart is an asset to an editor: it helps us be ruthless in a tactful way.
--- The Chicago Manual of Style
Prime focus...
>> I seem to remember that they can change to focus through a clear spot past the secondary mirror...
Yes, but this option is usually reserved for very large telescopes or those using a small CCD camera to capture the light without reflecting it off to the side.
Here, for example, is the Mount Wilson telescope with an observer seated at the prime focus:
http://www.sandiegohistory.org/journal/98fall/images/80-1080...
The chair rotates around the focal point so the observer is always seated in a more or less upright position. The Mount Wilson telescope can be configured to make use of several light paths, depending on the task.
Cheers,
Puddin'
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Cheers,
Puddin'
A tender heart is an asset to an editor: it helps us be ruthless in a tactful way.
--- The Chicago Manual of Style
Dobsonians
I would swear I saw some dobsonian telescopes advertised in Astronomy magazine that could change focus to the side of the secondary mirror. It was either a 13 or 16 inch that had a clear 5 inch viewing area for clearer planetary viewing.
Of course it's been over 20 years since I remember seeing it so those telescopes might no longer be for sale now (I have an extremely good memory - not photographic but still very good).
- Terry
To the *side*???
I don't know how one would avoid *severe* astigmatism and coma if the off-axis light path isn't corrected in some manner, since it sounds like a classic Herschelian reflector reused as a Newtonian reflector, or vice versa.
http://www.telescope-optics.net/tilted2.htm
I've never seen one, but I haven't seen everything by any means...
Puddin'
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Cheers,
Puddin'
A tender heart is an asset to an editor: it helps us be ruthless in a tactful way.
--- The Chicago Manual of Style
Office Furniture
Doesn't all that furniture in front of the main mirror reduce efficiency a lot?
Gwen
Not all that much...
The Hale telescope* shown has a five meter (200 inches) primary mirror. The observer's cage is one and a half meters in diameter. If one does the math, the cage occludes about ten percent of the light reaching the primary mirror. Not so much. It *looks* huge because we're looking at it in the foreground whilst the mirror is somewhat farther away.
These days, the observers usually sit in a comfy heated room looking at video displays, but the cage is also where people work to install different cameras, lenses, and so on, so it has to be big enough to work in anyway.
The Hale telescope can be configured in three ways optically, using the Prime Focus up in the cage, the Coude Focus which uses a tertiary mirror to route the light path through the south polar axis down to a room below the observatory floor, often used for spectroscopic measurements, and the Cassegrain focus, which uses a secondary mirror to reflect the light back down and through a small hole in the primary mirror and increases the focal length, so makes for more magnification.
Puddin'
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* I blithely misidentified it as being at Mount Wilson, but it's really at Palomar. The Mount Wilson *big* telescope (Hooker) is half the diameter of the Hale telescope at Palomar, although both had their turns at being "the biggest in the world."
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Cheers,
Puddin'
A tender heart is an asset to an editor: it helps us be ruthless in a tactful way.
--- The Chicago Manual of Style
A happier life.
I must say that I never expected this sort of response to my question on BC! It is comforting to know that there are those out there who have this T thing simmering in their heads, and have enough intellect to deal with it in a logical and scientific way.
Most of the people in my circle to not have the intellect to come to logical scientific conclusions about this issue. Most people I know are religionists and waste a great deal of time and energy dealing with condemnation and inappropriate moralizings. Perhaps that area of my life needs to go on the back burner or down the garbage disposal.
The return to Astronomy would be perhaps much more pleasant and less draining.
Blessings
Gwendolyn