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One from the BBC. A tricky one, not sure if she would be safer in a women's prison or not and to be honest, given the crime she committed, I'm not sure if I care.
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Comments
This was on the front page of one of the daily comics
a.k.a Newspapers today.
At least with 'it' chopped off, well you know the rest.
If they had remained in a male prison they would have been raped themselves and then we'd have to pay them a huge sum in damages.
A dilemna indeed.
Possibly a no win situation for the Home Office?
What
That gives all of us a bad name. Who paid for that operation the tax payers? why would you give a life sentence holder a pardon under any circumstance.
this is a "sticky wicket" as you in the UK say
(at least i think i used that right). to me, its a hard call. to allow this while the person is in PRISON, especially for crimes like murder, rape, pedophilia, its like they are being rewarded (remember in the US, it is NOT paid for by the government, so a lot of us cant afford it), so there it might be a different story. (the part at the end where a prisoner went one way, now is going back reinforces my point, was it real, or just a dodge for better prison?) and up to YOU and your government to decide to change if wanted.
For the US, i dont agree with it, sorry to those who disagree. prison is SUPPOSED to be a punishment, and when those of us who are LAW ABIDING CITIZENS cant receive this, why should a convicted prisoner? i even questioned Chelsea Manning at first, as there was nothing showing she had any previous claims (at the time, it came out later because the military was hiding the info for some reason) to being trans. to me it seemed to be a dodge to get out of a male prison. i have no issue with therapy, or HRT, but thats it. we have i think its 3 prisoners now who are receiving SRS on the governments dime (IE the taxpayers) a murderer, Manning if she still gets it before she is released, and another murderer.
no its NOT about the cost, its about the fact they VIOLATED the law, and will now get what others cant get. its basically rewarding criminals who happen to be trans. now if it was just covered for all, thats one thing, but that THEY can get it, and 60-80% of us CANT, i dont agree with it. my personal opinion, nothing more.
in the last case, they cited how the prisoner, Norsworthy, was in increased risk of cancer, and ONLY SRS would remove the need for SRS, which is wrong on two counts. 1. you will ALWAYS need E, period. 2. you CAN just get an Orchiectomy to remove the need for anti androgens, again, i can get behind that, THAT would be a medical necessity that solves the issue, without rewarding the criminal.
again, this i my opinion, as a transsexual woman, a tax payer and a law abiding citizen who will LIKELY never be able to afford this procedure. Also as a victim of several criminals, i dont see that granting this to them is nothing other than rewarding criminal behavior, in two of the three i mentioned, they ENDED someones life, at least one. CM, again, i dont think so, what she did was wrong, for the right reasons. as someone who has had ties to the military, there ARE ways for "whistle blowers" to do that without giving information to foreign nationals. maybe it was the stress she was under. fine, but my brother served in the navy, my father served in the Air Force during Vietnam (in the states, physical issues) i grew up in a military town, AFJROTC for several years and WORKED on Beale AFB in two different situations, for a Deputy base commander, and on the Flight line admin office for the cockpit servicing branch (9th FMS squadron) that worked on the SR-71 and U-2 planes. information she released could have gotten many service men killed (because she didnt KNOW all of what she was handing over, in her own statement if i recall). she WAS given extremely harsh sentencing and was NOT treated properly and I am glad she will be getting out in 2 months, it does NOT make her innocent though.
Teresa L.
Unbelievable
Yet true. This is what gives genuine transgender people a bad name. What I really don't understand is if when she was a man. He had the desire to rape women. How the hell can he feel like he should have been a woman? Despite my religious upbringing I truly HATE people like this. As far as I'm concerned rape is as bad as murder. Although in this case on the whole the victims live. The person he or she was will never be the same again. I know I did say he or she as there are a number of males raped too. The legal system no matter where you live. Always seems to protect the guilty and forgets the victims. Especially in rape or assault cases. The victim always has their reputation dragged thru the mud. The defense attorney will find all the shit s/he can to defend his/her client. So once again the victim finds themselves in the same position. He or she have their lives put under a microscope and attacked. If it had been up to me. I'd have said tough titty maybe now you know how your victims felt request denied. I know I can be a spiteful bitch at times but this kind of thing guarantees that will happen.
Cheryl XX
what
Makes someone genuinely TG then? Does committing a crime mean you can't be, in your words, 'genuine transgender'?
Am I genuine? Do I know you are? Is Ang?
It would be an awful lot of effort to convince the doctors that you're TG and get SRS for no reward. This individual did commit a heinous crime, they have served over 30 years of their sentence and are due for release in a couple more. They get no remission for getting SRS, there is nothing to gain. In fact as their identity has been fully disclosed they are in a worse situation than if they'd not pursued surgery!
This whole story is about where you hold a prisoner after treatment not whether we as individuals think it's right/wrong that treatment is given. They are no less 'real' on the TG spectrum because they have committed a crime much in the same way that someone taking to religion in gaol is no less a true believer than the convent nun,
Madeline Anafrid Bell
in the UK
Our health system is universal - ie (in theory at least) everyone is to be treated in the same way whatever gender/ age / status. This includes prison inmates regardless of their crime.
Whilst there is some hoo ha over this case it's not over this persons medical treatment (they've been through the same process as anyone else) but rather over where they are now held.
So, if for clarity we ignore this persons crimes and look coldly at things (eg a new prisoner arrives in the system who has previously had SRS so in the eyes of UK law is now female) the question really is 'where should TG prisoners be kept, in their genetic group or their physical group?'
There were arguments on the radio yesterday saying they should be kept separately from all other prisoners as they will offer jeopardy to 'other female' prisoners. Not sure how they will be more dangerous than 'other' women, they don't have the meat and two veg for rape and at this stage will unlikely be physically more powerful than many GG lags!
Out of the thousands of prisoners in the UK gaols currently there are just 80 diagnosed as TG - why they are behind bars we don't know.
Treat others as you'd expect them to treat you. So Ang, if in a pique of rage you stabbed Annie, where would you expect to be banged up?
Madeline Anafrid Bell
I would suggest the prisoner
is probably more at risk in a female prison than a male one because of the nature of the crimes of which they were convicted. As they did it twice I find it very difficult to have any sympathy for them.
In answer to your spurious hypothesis, were i convicted of a serious crime then I would be sent to a female prison as that is my legal status before committing this hypothetical crime. This person wasn't in that position so I'm not sure how your question arises. That I have little sympathy for them is due to the nature of a vicious crime against women perpetrated twice.
Angharad
but
By the logic you use because you weren't born female you must be male and so banged up in the male prison system. I would hope that in the UK at least we are above that stance. If that's the case this person who has been declared to be female by our legal system should be held in the appropriate system, ie female.
Their crime is irrelevant and should bear no influence there are after all convicted female rapists too.
Madeline Anafrid Bell
I accept
a female prisoner should be in a female jail.
Angharad
My outburst
Maddy if my outburst upset you in any way I apoligize. However, I'm not apologizing for what I said. When I was ten I was sexually assaulted by a friend of my Grandfather. He took his friend's side which has caused a major split in my family. I now have no contact with him or my Grandmother. So no, I don't have no any sympathies to any kind of sexual abusers of any kind. Period. In my own humble opinion (OK maybe not humble), rape is as bad as murder. Because the rapist/abuser has all but killed that person. I know that myself I'm not the same person I was it changed me. I have heard the same kind of thing from other victims. Any way end of rant. Once again Maddy aplogies for any offense.
Cheryl XX