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Computer development is going so fast that it is like totally gee wiz to me. And playing with them is like a total rush, though I did not usually give a ...
I'm not talking cost effectiveness here, just talking about what a novice can do, and it is like totally fun. So, I know some of you will think what I am saying is stupid, but please don't treat me like your irritating little sister.
I've discovered that I can buy a 1tb solid state drive and that it will make things "Go Fast". Last night I was rummaging around in a geek store and found some USB things that will drive a monitor and according to the sales guy, if you had 6 usb ports you could run six monitors either like six ones or like one giant one. Funnnnn !!!
So, right now my Intel Core 2 Quad chip has not limited what I want to do, but I am still thinking about buying a big box, a Motherboard, a processor and a bunch of other stuff and building my own because it might be a fun hobby. This would be the second computer I have "built".
The one I might build in the next year or so would start with a really hot processor, not because I need it but because who knows what I could get up to? I could see the news, a writing project, a dictionary, a blog, Facebook, and emails all running at the same time on different monitors, not because it is needed but because of the gee wiz component.
HTML is probably about as heavy as I will ever get into software unless the situation forces me, and that is usually what makes me learn. Yes, desperation and panic are my motivators.
So, if I start looking for a processor, that could run the world from my bedroom what would you recommend?
Gwen
Comments
AMD is cost effective...
...but some applications are optimized for intel. So, Core i5 is the best bet at the moment. Core i7 if you can afford it. Be aware that video processor is now typicaly integrated in the CPU, so motherboards use it. As some of Core i7 CPUs don't have graphics core inside, you'll need video card. If you don't intend to use video card for computing, I would recommend one based on AMD graphics chip...
AMD?
That depends on what you are running on the box.
Plain Windows and I might agree with you.
Games and/or Linux and AMD is not so hot.
The Intel drivers are improving fast and there's no reason these days you shouldn't go with what's on the motherboard - unless you have special requirements.
I run mythtv and AMD is definitely a no-no. nVidia cards are superior here, for the moment. I have one mythtv box which uses the on-board Intel video and it works OK.
If you want to get into games, then it is best to check the box and see what video card is recommended. Again, you may find that nVidia comes out best - at the moment.
Penny
I personally really like AMD.
Cost-for-performance AMD still wipes the floor with both Intel and nVidia. My gaming rig I built several years back is all AMD, and not even the best parts at that, but it still competes with the new consoles on a relatively even keel for the most part, and cost me a heckuva lot less than my cousin's Intel/nVidia rig he's already had to upgrade.
The only thing nVidia really has that AMD could benefit from is Phys-X, and given that games only ever use that for extra aesthetic oomph -- usually in the way of paper or cloth movement -- it's easily ignored as a real factor if money is any kind of issue.
My next gaming rig I build eventually will be all AMD too, since I can get an 8 core FX chip for less than 150 bucks and a killer graphics card for under 250, together which can slaughter pretty much anything that will be released in the next 5+ years.
For Gwen's needs, she could buy an off the shelf system for around 400 and just drop in a couple of cheap-o graphics cards for extra monitor ports and be done with it. Heck, if she's running a Core 2 Quad, there's no reason at all to upgrade it for most vanilla purposes; just get yourself a couple of 75 dollar graphics cards and, maybe, a new PSU, and you'd mostly be good to go. MAYBE more RAM, but that's arguable.
Melanie E.
I don't game
But I do keep an eye on hardware since I am a EE and yes AMD sucks at the low end right now though that is partially due to Intel throwing their financial muscle around back at the time when AMD had the performance crown and their current missteps with Bulldozer. People love Intel performance but I wonder how they will feel about it without AMD to provide them with competition.
Nvidia has had a bit of an unsavory reputation with regard to not admitting to process faults 'bump gate' or not providing honest performance figures, like for the GTX 970 most recently or their problems with fram pacing in SLI mode that they still have microstuttering with.
So I'm with you on this. And no since I do not game I can't be considered a fangoil or some such. For HTPCor light gaming apps, people should really consider Kaveri type processors which have better graphics capabilities unless you spend a bundle for iris pro Intel parts.
If your goal is pedestrian things like basic internet and...
word processing, a core i5 would be fine, if not positively excessive, and you can get a good multi-monitor video card for under 150 nowadays. Heck, even high-end gaming requires little in terms of real monetary investment in the current market.
Be forewarned, though, Gwen: if you spend more than 600 dollars on a rig to surf Facebook and access MS Word, I will pick on you.
Mercilessly.
Without end.
Melanie E.
Playing
Remember, this is a hobby for me and I am playing. I just want to do "Oh Wow" stuff. If I remember correctly, you pretty much have to buy the box to fit the Motherboard, but it has also passed my mind to use my old Dell box.
I once had a 50 Ford farm truck with a highly modified 390, 4 spd, and 2spd axle. It took a long time to get that 390 to stop trying to jump out on the street. I finally used some log chain to restrain it. The Truck had widow maker split rims on it that most places refused to work on.
I say that to illustrate that I am no stranger to adaptation. :)
Gwen
Better not or I'll tell Mom. :)
My mom would get on your case for spending the money too!
It ain't about cost or fanciness of parts: it's about the RIGHT parts.
Melanie E.
Unless you can remove the
Unless you can remove the motherboard faceplate in your Dell case, toss that idea out the window. That's the biggest downside to trying to reuse cases - most of the big boys have the cases fabricated for the motherboards.
You don't need anything other than a cheap box, however. Don't skimp on the power supply - and don't believe Antec is the king of power supplies. They use the same crappy components as the lowest quality manufacturers.
I'll get a life when it's proven and substantiated to be better than what I'm currently experiencing.
You're too kind
That is what a 300 dollar lappy is for. Microsoft had a low end celeron box with a 20 inch monitor special for 350. Perfect for the farcebook crowd.
Agreed.
A couple of years back my mom and dad were looking to get a new system because the old one finally died, and I offered to help them pick one. They were a bit nervous, since I talk a lot about specs and stuff, and they were afraid I'd try and sell them on some monster they didn't need. Instead I pointed them toward a system with an e1200 and 4 gigs of RAM, and they've been happy as can be with it for their needs.
The reason that smart phones and tablets are starting to take over the home computing market isn't because of their power; it's because most people's actual computing needs are incredibly low compared to where the tech has moved.
Melanie E.
Here's my thrupenny bit.
Here's my thrupenny bit.
Figure out what you're doing with the machine first. Most modern processors are cheating people.
If you have a very few programs you run, but you want them to run fast, you want a faster processor with fewer cores. (Quad core running at 3.1 ghz). If you have a lot of programs you want to run, or have programs that are truly multi-threaded, then you want a processor with more cores. (A6/A8/A10 with 8 cores at 2.6 ghz)
Most of my customers have a hard time stressing a dual core system! They're only using one program at a time, and when they switch programs, the previous software is idle - not crunching numbers. A Pentium D 970n at 3.8 ghz is actually better for those people than a much newer Core 2 Duo 8400 at 3 ghz. (Yes, the Core 2 Duo has more on-board ram, but for a spreadsheet and email, you don't notice it much).
So - don't overbuy. It's not worth it. Don't underbuy, either. Avoid the Celeron and the low end AMD like the plague. They're okay for cheap 'media PC' systems for basic web browsing and watching Frozen fan videos, but they're terrible for real use.
Again - fewer cores with higher clock speed, or more cores with lower clock speed. Don't try for more cores with higher clock speed, unless you're planning on using Blender, SolidWorks, or Maya (or other true multithreaded high performance CAD/CAM/graphic software)
I'll get a life when it's proven and substantiated to be better than what I'm currently experiencing.
This is EXCELLENT advice.
Probably the best computer-buying advice I've seen on the site, frankly.
Melanie E.
You forgot the other equalizer
For older systems one can breathe new life into them with an SSD. On a system with limited RAM it can be a real blessing especially as more and more swapping occurs. And don't forget the type of games you like. Some titles are CPU bound vs GPU bound so it complicates purchasing component decisions somewhat. There are other issues of course but let's not go too far down the nerdy path here. As far as power supplies go, you can't go wrong with Seasonic or Superflower if you can get it. Oh and choose the right wattage for that too, depending on your needs, especially if you have high wattage graphics cards in your system and you game.
I like PC Power and Cooling.
I like PC Power and Cooling. Seasonic is good, FoxConn is a good middle of the road, if you can find them. Even Deer Power has good ones. They just tend to be relabled as someone else's, and you never know what you're going to get. (FSP is decent too)
The biggest problem with the older systems is the same one that the power supplies have. Bad capacitors. It's becoming less of a problem for mainboards, as the main motherboard manufacturers have shifted to all polymer caps, but the power supplies still suffer.
SSD's are good, and even crappy SSDs are better than most standard platter drives - but they're cost prohibitive for people that have lots of pictures, music, or videos. My netbook is a dual core 1.6 ghz Atom, and the SSD inside of it compensates for a lot - but at core, it's still a 1.6 ghz Atom. (with only 2 gigs of ram. F* you, Microsoft, for pressuring all of the netbook manufacturers into not producing decent systems.)
I'll get a life when it's proven and substantiated to be better than what I'm currently experiencing.
First, you're getting a lot
First, you're getting a lot of good advice here, IF you're only interested in meeting your computing needs. The truth is, most people will never use the computing power modern systems boast. That said...
I understand your desire to push the envelope. It's not about need, it's about doing and learning. Be warned, there's a LOT of choices out there. Not only do AMD and Intel have many families of processors, but each family has literally hundreds of variations. Try reading user reviews on sites like Newegg - lots of good feedback there from people who've already spent their bucks.
As for video cards, if you need CUDA processors, nVidia is your only choice. If you will be doing HEAVY graphics lifting, I'd go with nVidia over AMD, but that's my preference.
PC Power and Cooling for the supply. If you're building a killer system, it has to be powered by PCP&C, period. There's a lot of cheaper supplies out there, but PCP&C supplies are BULLETPROOF.
I've stuck mostly with ASUS and MSI motherboards. Again, the selection is humongous, so pick carefully. Among the options - number and variety of ports, number of RAM slots, number and placement of cooling fan hookups, max allowable RAM (capacity), form factor, and layout (very important if you plan to use an after-market CPU cooler).
The stock cooler that CPU's ship with are fine for low to medium useage, but can allow your processor to run pretty hot under maximum load. If you're really going to push it (rendering huge 3D animated scenes, as an example), an after-market cooler will make a big difference. Again, read the reviews - not all coolers are created equal.
If you want maximum performance, you'll have to do your homework to insure the m'brd chip-set, CPU and RAM are well matched. A mistake here could mean having a system that will only run reliably at less than the advertised specs. I learned this one the hard way. :)
Have fun with your project. When you begin to see all the choices out there, you might start feeling like Alice (in Wonderland). :)
- vessica b
I would not get an AMD processor unless you go windows 8.1 or 10
the current Processor tech from AMD is not optimized for windows 7 and back, but runs great with 8 and up. Not all AMD and Intel Processors have built in graphics on the chip. If you get the an intel 2011 pin or 2011-v3 pin, or an AMD FX series processor they do not come with graphics on the chip. But if you get a 1155 or 1150 processor from intel or a APU series from AMD they have onboard graphics. performance wise nothing beats intel right now. but cost AMD is cheaper but will eat up more electricity. if you get a graphics card if you want to mine bitcoins or any other crypto currency you want an AMSD graphics card the software for it is better tuned for them. AMD or nVidia are both good for gaming if you get a good enough one, but it all depends on how high a resolution monitor you wan to push to and how many. having to upgrade a video card frequently all depends on what you get the higher end the card the longer they last. I have a nVidia GTX 580 in my desktop have had if for 3 years and it still will render most game at max settings at 1080p. except maybe Watch Dogs and Assassins Creed Unity, they need more video memory. So newer card to play them at max settings. I have an 1150 i7-4770k overclocked at 4.2 Ghz with air cooling and it is stable. every thing is a give and take. intel and nVidia cost more but use less power and generate less heat, AMD cost less and east more power for everything it does. What do you want to do with the machine becuase as an example an i3 form intel may be more than enough power for you if all you are doing is surfing the web, office, minor picture editing and minor video editing. it all depends on what you want the machine to do do you want a functional machine or Skynet?
"Cortana is watching you!"
If you're that deep into messing with the tech already
most of AMD's stuff is given ridiculous overheads of power -- it's part of the reason they DO produce more heat than Intel chips. I have an older first-gen A8 in my gaming rig (I bought it with the idea in mind that a graphics card could be delayed, and the plan worked beautifully) and I keep it undervolted by about half a total volt, and it still runs stable as a dream without any reduction in processing capability but a heck of a savings on heat production.
I agree on the motherboards: if you can, go ASUS or MSI any day of the week. I see some people swear by Asrock, but I love ASUS myself, and they tend to produce some of the best mobos across the entire spectrum of prices. The same goes for graphics cards: I got an HIS model really cheap, but if you're looking for stability and reliability ASUS or MSI are the best, and you can find options everywhere from super-cheap discreet cards to the behemoths that'll put the Large Pixel Collider to shame. Plus, both companies produce some EXCELLENT tuning software for both graphics cards and motherboards that isn't nearly as bloatware-y as a lot of the alternatives.
Avoid Sapphire or Sparkle graphics cards like the plague unless you're REALLY SURE about it. I've known a few people who got them for the ten to twenty bucks it saved them, and regretted it almost immediately.
And the most important note of all: RAM is RAM. Know your speeds and latencies, and pick based on those alone, but typically the cheaper it is and still meeting your performance needs the better. All the cooling fins and fancy names in the world do very little to make a difference in the world of RAM unless you're doing something crazy like running ten simultaneous instances of Furmark or something.
Melanie E.
Thank you all for the great council.
I like to play, tinker, learn and explore. Cost will be a factor, however sometimes the cost for an item is lots more than I can get it for.
Right now, I think I will stay PC, Microsoft, Intel. It is what I know. However I volunteer at a place that loves Linux. Apple is no fun as far as I can tell and I am in it for the fun. I want to be that helmswoman who sits in front of Captain James T. Kirk and is ordered to "Go Out there".
I saw a computer set up in which the desk is U shaped. There were at least 8 screens. I saw a computer chair with keyboards on each side of the operator...
I want to have as much fun as I did keeping that old truck running.
Gwen
Sounds like you met Skynets little sibling
I have the knowledge to build it but alas the funds and desire are not there. to go that far just seems to much. granted 5-10 screens would be awsome, I saw a 4 AMD graphics card server with 2 intel 12-core (24 thread each) processors and 128GB RAM, just to start in an oil company office 20 curved monitors creating a dome like appearance, DROOL!!!! I asked what they needed that for the simple answer finding oil.
"Cortana is watching you!"
The choices are almost limitless
I'm currently doing my work on a HP Laptop. It is an i7 Quad + HyperThreading (= 4 + (4 * 60%)) with 32Gb Ram and 3x1TB SSB + a 512Gb mSATA drives. i.e. Maxed out.
At home, this is placed into a docking station which gives me 3 screens. The Laptop HD screen (for email etc), and TWO 24in 1920x1200 monitors for the work stuff. I regularly max out the Apps in the 32Gb RAM mostly because of the numerous Virtual Machines that I run.
Had enough of the jargon yet?
I'm thinking about upgrading my home 'shit off a hot shovel' rig to something like this.
http://www.novatech.co.uk/barebonebundles/view/bb-593016.html
6 cores + hyperthreading and up to 64Gb RAM.
I'm sure that something similar to this would be available in the US most likely as a Motherboard bundle.
If you do plump for a desktop please think about how noisy it is. Don't stick with the stock CPU Cooler. This is my current 'goto' cooler
http://www.novatech.co.uk/products/components/cooling/cpucoo...
21dba. Hardly above background levels.
Why?
Well, a noisy machine just gets on your nerves after a period of time. Better cooling (with larger and better fans) reduces the noise generated by the beast.
On the same track, I tend to buy Graphics cards that are fanless. IMHO this is important if you want to run this in your Bedroom.
Notice the trend here?
When I'm working on my laptop, it is quiet until I load the daily plant schedule. Then for 20-30 mins the CPU fans go mad. On my current desktop (with great cooling) this hardly registers noise wise.
Finally, I know they are not used very much these days, a proper anti-static wristband is IMHO essential.
Good luck with the project. There are plenty of people here that can help if you get stuck.
Chipset
An AMD chipset, CPU etc will run quite well under win7. I have found that the Microsoft update drivers are not a good move though. Stick with the ones suplied by the MB manufacturer(Like a lot of others here, I'm partial to Asus, its what is in my desktops). Depending on your video adapter(s) that same bit might apply there as well.
For processor... you want power under the hood, go AMD. Especially at the high end, way more bang for the buck. Power supply... more is better. I won't build with a power supply under 600 watts, 700 is a better floor. Stick as much RAM in as you can afford or as much as your board will accept(That's a big thing to look at when picking a board). Also faster RAM with lower latency can make a difference. When it comes to the case... your choices are legion. I tend to go with a plain ol black steel and plastic box but you can go just about anywhere you want there... One of my favorites is the transparent cases with a UV reactive coating so they glow in a particular color when struck by a blacklight in the case. Stick a noise activated light in and it'll pulse to your music. There are any number of directions to go with it. I even had my dad build a wooden case once... that was a pretty computer... lol.
Whatever you do, have fun with it!
Abby
I have seen alot of great advice here
But I havent seen anyone really give much advice for PSUs. Personally I would go for a modular PSU. They are as good or better than standard ones. They make cable management much easier as you only have the cables in your system that you actually need and dont have a bunch of loose cabling hanging around. I am pretty OCD when it comes to making the inside of a case look decent and uncluttered because I like the clean appearance however that will also provide a minimal amount of help in the heat fight as well since the cables arent clogging up valuable airflow space. I also tend to zip tie the cables in out of the way places to make it easier to maintain the components. If the wires are out of the way you can easily reseat your RAM and expansion cards and its also easier to gain access to the cpu, and if heaven forbid you ever need to replace a part you wont have to fight a bunch of cables to do so.
Bekah
my super box of is top of the
my super box of is top of the line i7 with phantom 32 gb memory (red sticks) , 100gb ssd (operating system), two 5 Tb drives, 3 gb nvidia card , 1000 watt power supply, three fans, 32" led monitor, 23" touchscreen monitor. just built it right before Xmas so specs are still current.
Hugs,
Jenna From FL
Moderator/Editor
TopShelf BigCloset
It is a long road ahead but I will finally become who I should be.
AMD vs Intel, on 64 bit, AMD loses, always
Independent studies have consistently shown that AMD is slower than intel in the 64 bit computing, for every cpu tested.
in the old 16 and 32 bit computing, AMD kicked Intel's ass in the same tests.
I would pick the motherboard out that provides the functionality you want, then go with the CPU and chipset that the board is built for.
purchase a box that is set up for the board.
if you are going with multiple graphics cards for multiple monitors [ most multi monitor cards only allow 2 monitors ] then onboard video is not a great idea, but multiple pcie slots is.
[ and the multiple card method means you can add more stuff as funding becomes available. ]
I would get a power supply that can handle at least double the power requirements of the bits you start with, to allow for additional hardware later on.
since you are not likely to push the cpu to overheat temperatures from your stated use, the stock cooling fan should do until you do want to upgrade to a fan that will be able to handle the heat and be quieter.
my perfect powerhouse system:
http://www.cray.com/products/computing/cs-series
forget these dinky home systems, REAL computing power. ;)
and an easy to learn / use linux distribution:
http://www.pclinuos.com
free, so it is far cheaper than windoze.
Stupidity is a capital offense. A summary not indictable.
Contemplating
I have seen CPU coolers that are actually refrigerated. Last night I watched a video where a guy was testing a i5 @ 2x overclock. He did things like increase the voltage on the processor, increase the frequency to ???
Computers are the geek hotrods.
In contemplating my own MO, I use very conservative design with lots of redundancy so that nothing I do will ever cause a component failure due to overstressing a component.
I just watched a TED where the speaker was talking about a new way of estimating intelligence where this certain AI program they are experimenting is more successful than anything they have tried. The strategy that the program decided on was to forego problem solving ability in favor of redundancy.
This makes me feel really validated because after they told me that my IQ was <100, it hurt me so much that I decided to show them. In life what I have learned to always to is to have available multiple ways to solve any one problem. Some times that is using the intelligence of someone else and to get them to help me I am told that I have developed this cute, seductive way of helping them to be sympathetic to me and take care of me. :)
I promise that it was completely unconscious and not intended to manipulate anyone. In short, I learned girl tactics long before I ever became one. :)
Gwen