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No, it is not. Such discussion should take place in PMs or perhaps in a forum topic like this one.
Think about it. The comments are supposed to stay with a story. Discussing the tags puts the author in the position of either agreeing with the commenter and changing the tags, in which case the comment is rendered meaningless or disagreeing with the commenter in which case the comment thread becomes tangential to the story as the author defends their position. Either way, it can't help to detract from the value of the story as a story.
So, suggestions of tags in comments on stories are inappropriate. Authors can ask me to remove such comments, of course, but I may also remove them myself if I notice them. And I won't necessarily send a notice to the commenter that I have done so; life is too short to get involved in defending a common sense policy.
Note that tags are for authors to communicate to their readers; the only REQUIRED tags here are those for explicit sex content, for fanfiction, and for verse. There are RESTRICTED tags, like the contest tags are only for contest entries and the General Audiences tag cannot be placed on anything with explicit sex scenes or discussions and the Selected Themes cannot be put on anything that has a mature theme. Some universe tags are also restricted. The Solo flag is also restricted for stories that are complete in one posting.
Everything else is up to the author. You don't like the story and feel the tags are wrong, either communicate with the author in PM or start a (friendly) forum thread or blog.
Hugs,
Erin
Hmmmmm?
As someone who has been censored for my opinion on these tags, I have to very respectively disagree with you. It reminds me of the recent case in the US Supreme court that allowed EXTREMELY violent video games to be OK but allowed the censoring of explicit sex. It makes no sense to me. Ultra violent content can be part of the genre and has it's place to those who want to read it but at least a "CAUTION-Violence", or "CAUTION-Violence against children" might be in order for us who are a bit more sensitive and who get wrapped up and have empathy with the characters. I realize that I don't really have a say here but its just my opinion. I'm not trying to open a can of worms, only voice an opinion........ Adoy
Perhaps a misunderstanding
Read the above again. I didn't say no one could talk about the tags, I only said that comments attached to the story are not the appropriate place. And I gave reasons. You're not disagreeing with my reasons in your reply, you seem to be disagreeing with something I did not say -- that the tags cannot be discussed at all. I did not say that.
Hugs,
Erin
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
Also, this is not a Free Speech issue
Because it's a private site. Even if you weren't allowed to comment at all -- which is NOT what's going on -- bringing up the SCotUS is a skewed and logically fallacious way to bring up the topic. You can be angry about the way that the Supreme Court handled a ruling you disagreed with all you want. But it has nothing to do with the topic being discussed (and politics is something that is definitely discouraged here). It's like going into a discussion about the weather and screaming about how much you hate jellybeans. It's irrelevant and just detracts from the conversation.
Very reasonable,
and it makes perfect sense. I try my best not to get into debates about tags. Friendly is good also. ^_^
Spelling and grammar, too...
As far as I'm concerned, Erin's comments about the correct place for discussing issues surrounding story tags apply equally to grammar and spelling issues.
After all, if the author agrees, and changes the text, then the comment refers to something that no longer exists. If not, then the ensuing discussion can detract from the work.
So, if I feel strongly enough about such things, generally I'll PM the author.
Positive Support
Bike Resources
Bike Resources
That's correct
But that sort of discussion is in the topics already. :)
Hugs,
Erin
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
This being the case
and with other's comments here, I feel that it would be best to withhold any and all comments for fear of upsetting someone's (not necessarily the author's) sensibilities. This is the main reason I do not comment much on stories any more, out of fear of offending someone. It will be better to make separate blogs discussing generic errors and other hypotheticals rather than addressing story concerns when and where they happen as it will be better for everyone. After all, we don't want to hurt anyone's feelings...
In response to Erin's arguments, questioning tags on a story is a comment on the story in a very real sense, because, if you are like some readers here, reading comments can reveal a story's mistagging better than randomly discussing it in a blog, which is not linked to the story. And this can go both ways. A story such as D.O.A. has a tag of Identiuty Theft. Oh noes! Identity Theft? I don't want to read that! Oh, wait, the discussion in the comments talks about it being about ID as a storyline discussion point as well as plot. Wow, I think I will give it a go, WITH MY EYES OPEN. Discussing tags and other items in the comments leave them in the context of the story being discussed. How long before readers stop reading stories without tags to differentiate them? How many new authors will be passed over because they don't feel they need to tag their stories with x, y, or z and end up hurt and disgruntled because the reviews come back almost berating them for not being the kind of story someone likes to read, all because they were not warned? "Ewww! I stepped in doggy doo!" "Well you sould watch where you are stepping, this is a dog park you know." "No, the sign just says City park." "Oh well, not my problem. Come along, Rover."
Diana
don't mind me, heat, headache, and heart issues all day making me snarky
Just make the assumption that I'm being reasonable
You can discuss story points in the comments but whether a tag should be there or not, AS AN ACCUSATION against the author is off limits. This has been going on A LOT lately. That's why I posted it.
And I made my points at to why the policy is there. Discussing the nuance of a tag as a plot point is something completely different. It really isn't that hard to suss out the difference.
When I make rules to try to keep things friendly here, someone always has to complain that I'm stifling comment. Okay, if someone can't comment without being unfriendly and rude and without thinking ahead about the result of the comments on other people, then, yeah, I'm stifling that sort of comment.
Hugs to all,
Erin
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
yes, reasonableness
I forgot that there are those that will argue that the earth is flat still. It shopuld not be brought up as an accustory attack, but as a request, publicly made to inform others that this might or might not be the story they are looking for. Sometimes people hold a conviction longer than a grudge and for less reason. And sometimes people can't see the nuances for the words...
Oh, and 100% on the last point tou made!
Diana
Tags
"Is it appropriate to discuss the tags on a story in comments? No, it is not."
But (to your credit, IMO) that doesn't seem to be what you're saying in the body.
Your objection is to "accusing" the author. But I don't know of anyone who has alleged that the lack of a tag was done out of malice or cruelty, or even greed in drawing more readers into the story text. "Challenging" the absence of a particular tag is about as far as it goes, I think -- and at least sometimes it's not even that strong. There are occasions when it seems desirable -- maybe even necessary -- to inform the author of the situation -- and, importantly, to also advise others who are deciding whether or not to read the story and those who have read it and either relatively strongly feel the same way (and post a concurrence) or differently (and post a defense).
One PM to the author about the tag is a voice in the wilderness; it's not until others respond to a public comment that it becomes an issue under discussion. And a forum entry that 80% or more of the story readers won't bother reading won't work, especially since from recent experience you're likely to delete the discussion as accusatory if it centers on one story, even elliptically.
I think the discussion was especially relevant in the case that I'm assuming led to this edict, which was Part Three of a story in which many readers had thus "invested" their time by already reading the two previous chapters. Chapter three produced (IMO) a significant change in emphasis: where the main character's humiliation had previously been seen as the means to a temporary solution to the tormentors' problems, it now became something permanent and at least seemingly the evil sister's aim in and of itself: in effect, the humiliation of the protagonist was threatening to become the primary point of the story.
Complaining about the direction a story is going is neither helpful nor appropriate. The author has every right to take the story where she wants it to go, and any comment suggesting otherwise would, with good reason, be removed. But reporting that the tags didn't warn readers of the change seems to me to be a legitimate and public concern -- one that is relevant to the story posting. (And as you said, if the author doesn't agree she can have the comments removed.)
Eric
Not how it works
The story belongs to the author, not the readers or commenters. The author decides which tags are used, not the readers or commenters. The tags are there for the authors to communicate to the readers with. I can't make the site work otherwise because it would require way too much work by me to be sure all tags were used as appropriate. Can't do it.
So, the tags are the author's responsibility and the author is the sole authority over the tags, with the exceptions of a handful of restricted or mandatory tags that I think I can manage.
This is why it is inappropriate to have a long and whingeing thread about some tag being missing on some story. Readers should PM the author and if they do not agree or do not add or subtract tags as desired, the reader has the option to not read that author's stories anymore. There's even an ignore button for that purpose.
But BC is organized differently from most other sites: here authors post stories and select tags and I do a bit of organizing with some help from a few volunteers. That's how it works.
I gave reasons why not to post comments about missing or wrong tags but another and even better reason is such posts quite often turn into arguments and even flames. And this is a friendly site which means when I find such things going on, I have to remove them.
As I said, it needs to be stressed, the author owns the story, not the readers and not the commenters. And not me. The tags are there for the author to use to communicate with the readers. Authors who fail to use them to communicate accurately are failing themselves and their work, but it's their business. I can't do it for them and I refuse to act as referee in disputes between commenters and authors. So, don't complain about the presence or absence of tags in the comments, I will likely remove such comments when I find them for the reasons I have discussed.
Hugs,
Erin
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
Tags
Erin,
Honey, sometimes authors goof up.
If there is some way in which you can post a link for people to make note to said author, informing them of a misnomer in their posting, maybe these issues will resolve themselves?
wub
Holly
Yes, the weird author with the boob fetish.
Yes, the weird author with the boob fetish.
Not just tags
To be honest, I think the discussion on tags also applies to lots of criticisms about a story. People make adverse comments which may be unfair, and others make perfectly reasonable criticisms which the author corrects, but they all remain with the story forever. Yes, I know if we complain to Erin she will remove them, but I personally feel that all criticisms should be PMed to the author.
I know lots of authors are obsessed by the number of comments and Erin is always encouraging readers to write more, but I have turned comments off for the last few stories I've published. I still get plenty of people sending me a comment by PM, but that is between me and them - which is how it should be.
Kudos are a perfectly adequate measure of how many people enjoyed the story, and the PMs are the icing on the cake.
Criticism
Actually, some of the best compliments that I have received have been criticisms.
(You should post your stories in smaller pieces! I had to stay up until 3:00 in the morning to finish it!)
(I don't care for stories about big breasts, but it was so well written I just had to finish the story.)
(I don't like stories with lots of sex in them, so I read around those parts and it's still a good story.)
As Brad Pitt once said, "I am comfortable with very few men having a love scene with my wife, and you aren't one of them!"
Wholeman
Yes, the weird author with the boob fetish.
Yes, the weird author with the boob fetish.