One of the great things about BigCloset is the large group of motivated and thoughtful commenters, mostly authors helping authors by being encouraging and occasionally gently correcting each others faults.
However, another story has been removed at the author's request after some negative comments. I don't think anyone involved really wanted that to happen.
Here's the way to write a negative comment:
Begin by complimenting something you liked about the story. If there was nothing you liked well enough to do this part, don't comment. Why should you spend the effort if you disliked the story that much?
Make your negative criticism. Don't make a list. One or two negative items is about right, three may be too many. Be polite. Phrase things as possible improvements or suggestions you'd like to see. Consider the personality of the author involved, you don't want to hurt feelings and you don't want fights to start. Try to ooze respect. :) Once again, if you can't do this, why bother?
End by complimenting the story or the author again. It can be a repeat of the earlier compliment if you're feeling lazy or can't think of something else but try to be sincere. Again, anything really worth doing is worth doing right.
Reread your comment. Write a respectful subject line that is not negative. Consider whether this particular comment might be better sent privately rather than publicly posted attached to the story before sending it.
If you've done a good job of writing constructive criticism, you'll feel good about it. If you don't feel good about it, don't post it. What would be the point?
Here's things not to do, in particular:
DON'T write a laundry list. Multiple negative items multiply negative impact.
DON'T agree with somebody's earlier negative comment for the same reason. This is a classic better sent privately sort of comment, if it needs doing at all.
DON'T ride your own hobby horse. If you've made the same sort of negative comment to more than two other authors, shut up on that subject. One reason for being quiet is that likely, no one's listening to you anymore because you are probably trying to get people to write to your tastes rather than actually making helpful comments. Matters of taste are indisputable but just because you don't like something doesn't mean that other people don't. The other reason, more applicable in cases of grammar or spelling police, is that seeing the same complaints over and over is just tiresome. Proofreading problems should really be sent privately if extensive, anyway, because they would be laundry lists.
DON'T expect things to change or any sort of appreciation. You've just offered free advice and all the old saws apply. If authors should develop thicker skins for dealing with the public, well, so should reviewers.
Things to do:
DO be respectful. You'd like it if others did for you, so show some effort.
DO be honest. All this is worth it only if the negative comments actually mean something.
DO write reviews. My instructions here are meant to be reflexive, the only one of my own above rules I'm violating is not make lists. So none of this is meant to discourage reviewers.
All that said, in the largest sense BigCloset is successful BECAUSE of the quality of stories AND REVIEWS that appear here. We're not a composition class nor a factory, we're a group of friendly writers and readers who get together to enjoy reading and writing stories.
Hugs to all,
Erin
That's a shame
I'm saddened to hear that somebody has pulled their story. I was responsible awhile back for a fracas that caused another writer to temporarily withdraw from BC, and it embarrasses me to this day. All I can say to the writer who's feelings were hurt is to persevere. There may be some valid points in the comments, take these in and ignore the rest. There are several here who have their pet peeves, it shouldn't take long to identify them and learn to screen out most of their comments.
There are two reasons for writing: to satisfy that little voice in your head, and to gain the approbation of others. I would suggest that your main priority should be the first reason, the second may or may not come in time.
I'm helping my big sis, who's stuff would normally be posted on Sapphire's site, learn to post here. Talk about the blind leading the blind! (Or is that "blonde" leading the blind? I get confused sometimes.) I hope we can welcome her (and other's) stories with the same open arms we greet the more experienced authors on here, because it seems as if the new authors are getting a harsher than necessary reception.
Karen J.
"A dress makes no sense unless it inspires men to want to take it off you."
Francoise Sagan
“When a clown moves into a palace, he doesn’t become a king. The palace becomes a circus.” - Turkish Proverb
That's sad
Overall most everyone here has been most encourging and helpful to me.
With the rare exception of an individual who misunderstood a story, even the negative comments have been helpful. Even *that* one led to my making a few tweaks to clarify an important plot but then I'm thick skinned compared to many. Some of the proofing police have been mildly bothersome but then I need a good kick in the pants occasionally to improve my technical skills and it's been offered in a friendly way so I am grateful.
To the individual who left, I am sorry you were hurt. Please consider posting here again. We don't bite, well not too hard anyway. If need be, solicit Erin's advice on who might be good author/readers to PM prior to posting and get some help to make your experience here a happy one.
John in Wauwatosa
John in Wauwatosa
Upon my expertise
Erin is a gracious hostess and runs a regulated but fair establishment. I know, I sound like a cheap whore, which is something I strive for, but not at this moment. I think that I have abused almost every aspect of Erin's generosity from time to time and I think I may have been abused in return from time to time by that freedom. I like the balance. I feel badly that someone posted here and was insulted and a bit worse that they left. There are those here with strong opinions and perspectives I don't like. Tough, for me, tough for them. My advice, claim your space and try to stay true to yourself. Life is too short to be intimidated, and praise starts from within. Yeah, that does sound a bit aggressive for a sweet girl like me...sorry.
Gwen
Gwen Lavyril
Gwen Lavyril
Update
A late communication from the author (who withdrew only one story of many) is thst a rewrite will be done and reposted. Good news and a good outcome. I'm looking forward to seeing the revised story because I enjoyed the first one.
Hugs to all,
Erin
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
Thanks for the update
I'm glad to hear that things are being worked out. I'm sorry to say that reviewing the recently posted stories has left me no wiser as to who or what was missing. That suggests that I am not making a good enough effort to support the other authors on the site. I'll be looking forward to seeing the new version.
Karen J.
"A dress makes no sense unless it inspires men to want to take it off you."
Francoise Sagan
“When a clown moves into a palace, he doesn’t become a king. The palace becomes a circus.” - Turkish Proverb
Execelent news
That's great news, Erin.
This site tends to attract decent people and quality writers for the most part, sorry to let you down but some one has to be the exception to the rule.
I look forward to their reposted story.
John in Wauwatosa
John in Wauwatosa
euphemism
It's tough pretending that we don't know what story this could possibly be, when there's a dead link to it in the sidebar on the front page.
Didn't notice
I can't speak for the others but I wasn't pretending. Erin said she removed it, so it never occurred to me to look for a dead link in the contest listing.
KJT
"A dress makes no sense unless it inspires men to want to take it off you."
Francoise Sagan
“When a clown moves into a palace, he doesn’t become a king. The palace becomes a circus.” - Turkish Proverb
Link fixed
I hadn't noticed it was still there, either, error in my coding of that block. Links for unpublished stories will not appear in the contest block as soon as the current cache expires.
- Erin
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
RE: Comments
I must say, I can imagine how the person who withdrew and rewrote their story feels. It can be hard to please everyone and that's something that's never going to happen.
I post my stories here because of the largely friendly atmosphere (if that can be applied to a virtual environment?), the freedom and the positive responses.
A number of other sites that post adult/TG literature do not have such guidelines in place and as a result, the ratings and or comments can be almost soul-destroying.
No-one likes to have spent ages writing their masterpieces only to find that they get slagged off because someone doesn't get part of what was written, misinterprets or plain doesn't like.
I applaud anyone who has the guts to write and post, as I know how frightening it can be when one thinks of all the literary 'stars' there are out there who could write rings round most of us. I know too that there's a story in all of us, it's just that some are better at putting that story onto this virtual paper than others.
Do try and think about the comments you write and try and follow Erin's guidelines as one day it could be you on the receiving end of a particularly barbed comment and then how would you feel?
Nick B
Pissing Off Expertise
At this moment I'm in the penalty box on another site. The reason given -- I insulted the webmistress. At least one other person has asked that I not comment in the same threads as him. Is it my fault or theirs. Doesn't seem to really matter.
I have acheived considerable public recognition for getting under people's skin. When I write I strive for this, maybe it just carries over into the rest of my life.
Through considerable effort I have found one things to be true. There is no good way to criticize another person.
I've owned my own business for two decades. Prior to that I was in the corporate world for fifteen years. I've had to fire dozens of employees. Thankfully I haven't had to do that for almost ten years now, as it is a horrible experience for them and for me. There is no good way of doing it.
Erin -- you suggest wrapping a criticism with positive comments. Child psychologist once called this a sandwich. Most child psychologist have now come to the conclusion that doesn't work. Years ago I heard that a thousand "attaboys" are wiped out by one "aw shit." That should be rule number one in interpersonal relationships.
I've often argued that critisms that pick apart a story should be done in private. I still firmly believe that.
I've now added another level to that. Criticsm of stories should only be done once you have the author's permission. Simply because an author posts a story doesn't give you the right to tell her what's wrong with it.
Just a few days ago I spent over an hour putting together what Erin would call "a laundry list" of comments for an author who writes a lot on this site. I sanwiched my remarks -- but did not hear back from her. I assume I've done the P.O. thing again.
A word of advice for those foolish enough to go into editing. Don't expect a bucket filled with thanks after you tell someone their precious gem is a stone best tossed into a deep lake. Don't even expect them to be appreciative of your efforts to correct their spelling errors. In the final analysis they will be as happy with you as your were with that English teacher in junior high who gave your paper a "B" when you had made an effort to recieve an "A."
All of us can improve on another person's work. All of us can find errors in spelling another person missed. No plot or characterization is perfect. No scene can be described so completely or succinctly -- so that there is no room for improvement.
Every once in a while I've had positive results in editing. Working with Heather Rose was nothing but positive. Editing for Dimelza has also been quite rewarding. The common thread between those two is they know how to take my criticism, pick out what works for them (and what doesn't), and make THEIR story much better.
I've also enjoyed working with Jillian as she needs her writing like puppies need someone or something to play with.
If you want to piss someone off, make a negative comment about their work, no matter how slight. You can wrap it in all the positive statements you want and that one comment is the one they will remember. That's human nature.
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
Story comments
First of all, it's perfectly all right to post a story here that has appeared elsewhere. All I ask is that the poster be the author or have the author's permission to post. It's also okay to post stories in pieces, though I prefer just one piece per every day or two.
That said, story comments attached to a story should be about the story, not about the posting. Questions or suggestions about a posting should be sent in email or PM, though a nice post with story comments could sneak in a little question at the end.
As of now, though, story comments that are not about the story are likely to be unpublished, usually with a PM to the comment poster in explanation. I'm not trying to block people from asking such questions or making suggestions but the story comments are mostly for story comments, or should be.
Hugs to all,
Erin
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.