TopShelf TG Fiction in the BigCloset!
Why can't authors posting stories which have been previously posted, state that and where they've been posted. I'm all in favour of recycling, and have posted stuff here that appeared elsewhere but have usually said so. Why can't others do the same?
Angharad.
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Comments
Previously Posted
I'm not sure why it needs to be said...
If I post one of my stories here and you've read it before, hopefully it was memorable enough the first time you read it for you to remember it. If it wasn't memorable enough then, then why do you need to know where it was posted previously?
If I wanted to post my HuggleBugs Story (New Reality) Would I need to state just one of the other sites? or fully disclose that it was posted @
Would that really be all that helpful to you? And would u want URL's to the website? Or URL's to the story @ said website? How much is TOO much? How much is TOO little?
When I posted the "StoryLink" to my story Sanctuary I stated that it was posted here in German already... Should I have disclaimed that that same German translation was available @ Tor der Traeume ?
Just my opinion and questions.....
-P/KAF
Let me edit this and add.... I usually do state if something posted first at TGF, or StorySite or whatever... Kim used to do similar... But I don't think it should be a requirement is my point.....
I kinda like that idea.
Sometimes I recall stories, but not the titles. Sometimes I have a limited amount of time to read, and would rather read new things, than something I've read before. Other times, I have time to re-read a story. When I don't know a story's been re-posted, I start reading, and get that dejavu feeling... And wonder, did someone else write a similar story somewhere?
Some stories are VERY recognizable (to me. Others, I need to get into them a bit before I go "hey, wait a minute". )
So, yes, I'd agree, notification that the piece of work was posted elsewhere previously would be useful. I don't necessarily care where it was posted, though, if the site's still available it might be nice... I've been known to follow links in stories to other sites (well that's how I got here actually).
My 3 cents.
Annette
Short Answer
Because BC is about leaving authors in as much control of their own stuff as I can and still make the site work. It would probably be nice for authors to note repostings but it isn't required because requiring it would put a burden on authors and on me.
I encourage repostings, too. I think it is wise to have one's stories posted in more than one place in case of something happening like the conjunction of happenstance that knocked out three of the biggest and most popular TG websites in the same extended time frame.
Bob and I are setting up rescue plans in case something happens like an earthquake in downtown LA knocks out power to the server farm there taking out BC or a blizzard taking out Bob's home connection in upstate New York where he hosts Stardust.
But stuff happens. And repostings don't mean that everyone one has seen the story before.
Hugs,
Erin
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
Also...
At least some authors take the opportunity to re-edit or otherwise rework their stories, as with the recent postings of some of Tanya's stories, which were, in fact, fully disclosed as edited repostings. How much revision counts as a "newish" story? And why does it matter?
How detailed would the disclosure have to be to satisfy? And how about comments? If one posts a comment that says, "Great story!" should one note when and where you've said the same thing before? Many stories being posted here recently seem to be Fiction Mania stuff? Does it matter that the original source is defunct? This may be temporary, but it seems to be having fits of life and then expires again.
Are there reasonable accomodations made for people who may have forgotten where or whether their stories were posted (or not posted) before. After the lapse of a reasonable amount of time, I suspect many writers aren't able to recall these matters in great detail, if at all.
It seems to me that this is a special pleading, and if a reader can't remember what they read, why is the author required to remember which of perhaps many stories were ever judged ready for prime time and posted somewhere?
If this information is readily available, it might be nice to explain whether or not there's been editing done, but who, absent a professional source control archive, can easily keep track?
My vote is for freedom, and let those authors who want to include an extensive revision and publication history do so, and let those who aren't willing or able to do so go on as they will. They provide a service at *very* low cost. It ill-behooves us to kvetch about the manner in which the service is provided.
There's an old saying, "Never look a gift horse in the mouth."
Cheers,
Puddin'
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Cheers,
Puddin'
A tender heart is an asset to an editor: it helps us be ruthless in a tactful way.
--- The Chicago Manual of Style
Another old saying
"Common sense is a contradiction in terms."
Angharad asked a question, why don't authors say when a story was posted somewhere else first? Not a rule, not a requirement, a simple question. Do it or not, that is your choice. Well, actually it's the author's choice, not yours.
Since comparisons from the real world of publishing are so favored, let me give a couple. Many of the earlier sci-fi stories from the Thirties to the Fifties have this sort of note inside the front cover: "Portions of this book were serialized in Aug. and Sept. 1939 issues of Astounding Science Fiction." And I saw several compilations today at the bookstore, they had something in the front to the effect "This volume was previously published separately as XXXX and YYYY."
So how tough is it to say something like this at the top of a story. "This story was previously posted on Sapphire's TG Archive, but has been rewritten before posting here." Is that so difficult? If it is, don't do it, there is no rule, and according to Erin there will be no rule. All it is was a suggestion from one of the most prolific authors currently posting on BC. I'm sure she didn't mean to strain anybodies brains over-thinking this.
Sheesh!
>> But stuff happens...
I wasn't responding to Angharad, but rather Erin, as the nesting order clearly indicates, offering other examples of "stuff happening."
Angharad's question seems perfectly sensible, and the conduct she appears to advocate admirable, but the question doesn't really apply to everyone, because many people are scattered and disorganised, the exigencies of life taking precedence over punctilious observation of publishing and editing protocols.
One might as well ask, "Why are so many writers flummoxed by the subjunctive?" or "Why are there so many sentence fragments, improper tense changes, and/or misspellings in this or that story?" Some people are good at that stuff. Some aren't. It takes all kinds.
In the real world of publishing you take as an exemplar, people are making money, editors are hired to maintain house standards, and there is a legal department on hand to make sure that legal niceties are observed.
I'm sure Erin would love to have donations *pouring* in and a budget of, let's say, several millions a year, as it wold make everything so much nicer. Perhaps she could put doilies and antimaccasars on the furniture, as well as hiring paid staff. Maybe Bill Gates will send her some money, or that nice Mr Buffett, since this is, after all, a grossly underserved population.
Cheers,
Puddin'
------------------
Success is getting what you want.
Happiness is wanting what you get.
--- Dale Carnegie
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Cheers,
Puddin'
A tender heart is an asset to an editor: it helps us be ruthless in a tactful way.
--- The Chicago Manual of Style
Request not require
It seems as if everybody lately takes any suggestions as possible requirements. "Why don't authors do that" does not necessarily mean "make it a rule". I think Angharad was suggesting it as being a good idea but each author can do as they please. As the old saying goes: everybody can go to h*** in their own fashion. I figure we are all big boys and girls here, and if we can be shown the value of doing something a certain way, a lot of us will. But that would be the individual's choice, do it or not.
Mine are "Migrated" and have that listed...
If they are re-posts I have that in the heading somewhere as well.
If I forget, I'm not going to apologize about it either. I mean this is a TG Fiction archive site isn't it? If the story hasn't been posted here before then it isn't a re-post here!
I do see that it can bother a FEW people because they might have read it elsewhere and forgot the title, but it doesn't take long to learn that you have read this story before so not much time is wasted.
I always post here first 98% of the time unless I have written an exclusive to another site and then you won't ever see it here anyway.
LOL...Even Angharad said the magic word in her actual complaint! I quote
"...I'm all in favour of recycling, and have posted stuff here that appeared elsewhere but have usually said so...."
The operative word here she used is "USEUALLY"...
My one request would be for them to add only one of their stories a day and not multiples because they knock the new stuff off of the HOME page quicker than they should be.
Angel
"Be Your-Self, So Easy to Say, So Hard to Live!"
"Be Your-Self, So Easy to Say, So Hard to Live!"
>> it doesn't take long to learn that you have read this story
I actually disagree. It would be more accurate, I think, to say that the best and most creative original work is instantly recognisable. I daresay I could recognise a story by, for example, Angharad, Anistasia Allread, Tanya Allan, Admiral Krunch, Julie O, or any of dozens more even if the headers and attribution were absent.
There are, however, another type of stories which may seem very familiar, even if the work is original, because they use situations and themes which are very specifically aimed at a particular audience, and are required by the conventions of the particular genre.
One presumes that the intended audience is willing to countenance a certain level of repetition and similarity.
Puddin'
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Cheers,
Puddin'
A tender heart is an asset to an editor: it helps us be ruthless in a tactful way.
--- The Chicago Manual of Style
Stories Posted Elsewhere
I personally have no problem with it as alot of authors have corrected the errors in some of those stories and alot of them with the updates have been better, and "PIPER" I have enjoyed some those stories you have posted elsewhere and would probally read them again here too. Enough Said!!! Richard
Richard
I usualy indicate if my post is a new and revised version
Was off line for a while, something in XP was scrambled and I had to dig out my installation cd to repair it.
I agree that the more sites, compatible with your story type you post to, the better but it is nice if you can to indicate which version is posted. Heck, sometimes I forget which version is which except for the file date.
I don’t like rigid rules as a rule, a certain flexibility is good. I feel authors here would be well advised to indicate that a story was posted elsewhere before and that this is a repost or that this is a new and improved version. The reader need not know all but some useful FYI would be nice.
I think Ang has a good point In fact I see this as a protection of the original author, sometimes I worry that another has stolen their story and attached their own name to it.
I like to see older stories featured again, I just like to know they are a repost and that the original author agrees to it, common courtesy after all.
John in Wauwatosa
John in Wauwatosa
Just today, John, and you other authors ...
Sephrena tells me that Erin has added a choice at the bottom of the Permission box when posting story, to indicate it is 'Revised and Reposted'
Will that help you ?
It’s not given to anyone to have no regrets; only to decide, through the choices we make, which regrets we’ll have,
David Weber – In Fury Born
Holly
It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice.
Holly
Previous Postings and Revisions
Oh please, don't do anything organized or traceable. Fifty years from now when you and these sites are all mainstream, you'll be depriving thousand of academics from arguing over the sequence of the revisions and posting. Don't steal their careers away from them!
In fact, make more changes, the more random and illogical the better. Let a MicroSquash spell checker try and guess what word you meant for something not in it's brain dead dictionary. Juggle a page or 32 like the dead tree publishers do. Anything for fun.
But above all, please, please keep writing and posting all the great work here.
PeterT
Recylcling
I think it is a bit of an unusual situation right now, with FM being down. But it seems to me during normal situations, most stories are published to the multiple web sites at the same time, in an attempt to hit a larger audience. Usually it is rarer to have a story that has been out there for awhile show up, unless an established author joins the site.
prior postings and Tor der Traeume
Piper, es tut Mir leid, sondern Ich ins Deutsch gespricht nichts. Therefore it would have done me no good to have found the story on Tor der Traeume...
I was quite happy to find and read it where I did...
While I tend to pick a site and stick with it, I have posted Tranquility upon another site... In fact that site is now about one chapter ahead of this one. I tend to post there check the comments, make a few alterations and present the "new and improved" version here. So, yes, I am guilty of posting at more than one site with the very nearly same story. Just wait until some of them hit Lulu, AFS TacPuzSolGp is undergoing revisions as is Tranquility both with the intent of presenting them on Lulu... Artwork is potenntially "in the mill" for each story and I hope they will appear there in four or five months. I probably tapped out the market when I posted here but... what the heck.
Angharad... My apologies for not stating I had previously posted Tranquility S&S. Please forgive me.
God Bless You All...
I am very much pro authors
I am very much pro authors posting at multiple sites. Most my stories are available @ StorySite, FictionMania, TGFiction.Net and my personal website. A couple have StoryLinks here pointing to TGFiction.Net...
Now, partially my want for authors posting to multiple sites is selfish. I want to see TGF grow and prosper! But, at the same point, I don't want all the readers "left out in the cold" like they were for the most part when FictionMania went down, and whilst Crystal is re-working her scripts.
But all that said, I guess stating that a story was posted elsewhere isn't a bad thing, as long as it is strictly voluntary :) I really don't want to post something an get lambasted because it was previously posted elsewhere an I forgot to mention it.
-P/KAF
P.S. I don't speak or understand German myself either (YET). The translation was done by a good friend whom thought the story was so important that it should be translated into her native tongue.
I am sorry.
Angharad, I have stories over on story site that are here but I have extensively edited the work I have migrated to BC. About half of what I have on BC exists only here.
I am sorry, I did not thing anyone would object.
Gwendolyn