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Another heart attack victim. Yep. At about 5 minutes to 10pm (US Eastern) tonight, I had a heart attack. I was rushed to the Emergency Room by my roommate and rushed through triage and they had the doctor in to see me posthaste. The Triage Nurse, the ER Nurse, the X-Ray Tech, The EKG Tech, and the Doctor were all splendid.
The Admissions Clerk, however, decided my fate when she found out I was without insurance. Now, I'm not going to make the assumption that I was discharged less than 21/2 hours after the heart attack itself because I'm transgender. It was quite obvious that it was due to something -- and my guess is lack of health insurance.
That's right. I was discharged and on my way out the doors at 12:23am (just after midnight) US Eastern time.
American Health Care sucks donkey balls through a straw clogged with horse shit.
How many people out there have heard of a heart attack patient NOT being kept at least overnight for observation? Especially if that patient has a history like mine? Past heart attack, congestive heart failure, chronic angina, chronic pleurisy, a right-branch-bundle blockage (the adult equivalent of a murmur), erratic heart beat, history of clotting -- five times pulmonary embolism (clots in the lungs), 8 times deep vein thrombosis (clots in the legs) -- dizzy spells, fainting spells, and a Greenfield Filter. A Greenfield Filter is a metal contraption inserted surgically into the vena cava, which is the major giant vein going from your legs to your heart and lungs, in order to "catch" clots before they can REALLY hurt you.
So. If I'm not around any more, it's because after writing this blog and going to sleep tonight, I didn't wake up.
Comments
best wishes
i am so worried about you Edeyn I hope that i hear from you in the future. I am giving you my best wishes And please find a way to get insurance
Good luck.
Not to be pessimistic but it's Health Insurance or something else where you have to be DIRT poor, like own no possessions of value or any income, to get under some of these programs that would help.
I hope for the best to the author though. The Health Insurance thing is truly a problem. I'm at odds with the solution of Health Insurance for everyone just because I feel uncomfortable with Big Pharma getting any money from me. I disdain them with almost every fiber of my being. Not the workers so much as the CEO's or people on top. I also think the way we're going to make it truly affordable to people is having the cost dampened by natural cures since it allows mucho competition, see no patents.
I don't know about the hospital you were at
However, it is my understanding that any hospital that receives federal funds can't turn any patient away and must take care of you. If it wasn't federally funded or a MEDICAL discharge I'd think there might be a malpractice case possible..that's my initial thoughts other than I hope you wake up and are able to get proper medical treatment and follow-up today.
Hugs!
Frank
They didn't turn me away
They just didn't do anything other than the barest of minimums.
Unbelievable
I'm always hearing horror stories about the US health care system. I wonder whatever happened to the Hippocratic Oath? I suppose there is no end to greed.
I hope you get well soon Edeyn. After all, you must still have a couple of hundred thousand words to go (please, only joking). Just take care,
Hugs,
Joanne
150K to go...
My current word count is 850,003.
As for the Hippocratic Oath... follow these instructions and you'll see what they've done:
ip = y
ati = iti
th = f
See?
LOL
How true, how TRUE!
Although I had to write it out to get the joke, I nearly fell out of my chair when I did get the punchline.
I, too, am at a loss as to what the solution is to the American health care problem. I certainly don't want the government to take over, because you see how well Tricare and Medicare is going. And yet, there should be some way to make health insurance affordable to everyone.
Maybe we could make the current mortgage lending CEO's, CFO's, as well as the House and Senate drive Yugo's, take the money we save in that, and put it towards a national fund to subsidize health insurance. We could also take their second homes and vacation homes and use the profit off those for said national fund.
As I tell my husband, "It may not be a good idea, but it's an idea."
Smooches,
Paula
Paula Young
A life lived in fear is a life half-lived
Health Care
I believe it did happen and most probably the reason was lack of insurance.
I've been a Registered Nurse for about 30 years with the majority of those years spent working in a Level 2 trauma center emergency department, as the charge nurse on nights. I have NEVER turned away a patient because of a lack of insurance. I rarely knew whether the patient had insurance or not and didn't care.
I have known of a local hospital, owned and run by a private nationwide corporation, that has "referred" patients, without insurance, to the hospital where I worked. One of those times that they "referred" a patient to us that had no job and no insurance was for an orthopedic problem. To make the story short, the reason the 60+ year old lady didn't have insurance, or a job, was because she is extremely wealthy. The woman has since refused to ever go to that hospital. Tickled me to no end.
Please try to find another hospital.
Good luck and *hugs*
Brenda
Before you castigate the US health system ...
... consider what you might get.
My father died because of the British health system. Supposedly "caring" Labour politicians decreed that a simple treatment would not be available anywhere in the country until it could be available everywhere. All very socialist and egalitarian.
This delayed the introduction of the treatment by five years, until the politicians "found" the money.
By the time the hospital was allowed to offer the treatment, my father's body was too weak for the operation and he died post-op. So an eleven year old boy lost his father on the altar of socialised medicine.
My brother-in-law died two months ago. A retired RAF pilot, he was denied treatment by the NHS because the hospital had used up it's budget for the year, and it was not "urgent". The NHS rescheduled the surgery for eleven months later, and (the NHS having "learnt" from previous trick) then denied him the treatment because his body had weakened over that year and he was "no longer able to withstand surgery". His children and grandchildren lost him to the shibboleth of socialist medicine in the hands of left wing politicians.
Be very careful of what you wish for, and if you think that a Genie will twist words ... a Genie's a piker compared to a politician in search of a sound bite!
On the other hand
I and many of my friends have benefitted from a system that doesn't check your wallet before they check your pulse.
My father's family had to fund his osteo TB operations in the 1920s when he had the head of his femur amputated and pinned to his pelvis. He always said he didn't know how they found the money. Fortunately, when it flared up in the 50s and he was bed-ridden for 9 months the NHS funded the treatment and we survived as a family.
I've had 2 sessions in hospital due to cycle accidents. One of them involved several hours of plastic surgery which was carried out 2 days after the accident or I'd be even uglier than I am now.
A friend is still cycling because she's had both hips replaced and, later, a new heart valve installed. Another friend had the misfortune to have a child suffering from cystic fibrosis - all the treatment (and it was a lot) was funded by the NHS. Sadly, at the age of ten, the child was unable to cope and died but her parents had nothing but praise for the help they received from the hospital. I wonder what would happen in the USA if a child was born with a congenital complaint to one of the millions of women without health insurance. I know lots of people with good experiences and none with bad though I know they exist.
I know one person (a very good friend) who had liver cancer and had operations funded privately by his (American-owned) employer's insurance. After a lot of expensive treatment he exceeded the limit, the insurance company backed out but, fortunately, the NHS was there to pick up the case.
The NHS is not perfect - show me system of any kind that is and I have an interesting bridge to sell you. It fails sometimes and mistakes are made but it's infinitely preferable to a private system relying on the bureaucracy inevitably involved in profit motivated insurance companies. No need to check if you're covered - by default, you are. No political party would have a hope in getting elected on a platform of abolishing the NHS and substituting a private health care sytem based on the ability to pay.
I'm sorry, but the provision of universal health care, free at the point of delivery, is a no-brainer in a modern civilised society in my book. It isn't actually free, of course. It's just that cost is spread over the whole population rather than only over those who can afford the premiums.
Geoff
Medicine
There are places where you can die at the hospital doors if you don't have cash. Insurance doesn't cut it -- they want cash up front. No system is perfect, but the 'pay or die' hospitals are the pits.
In America, a hospital has to treat and stabilize the patient, then, if necessary, refer him to another hospital. Edeyn definitely received sub-standard care, and she has every right to squawk up a storm and maybe involve some aggressive lawyers.
I know that there are plenty of people out there with no medical insurance. For years, our family was insured either by my employer, Mary's employer, or a combination of both. Right now, in this current dry spell, I am taken care of by the VA (less than convenient due to the distance, but very good quality care,) and the kids are insured by something called Healthy Kids (or something like that.) I'm not sure about Mary, but she is definitely being taken care of.
With three special needs kids, we are very grateful for the help. It makes up for all the years that I was single, paid into the system, but never used it.
By the way, between the ages of 23 (when I left the Army) and 29 (when I started working as a programmer,) I had no insurance. I am very fortunate that I was healthy through those years and, except for a few dental visits, I never needed to see a doctor.
As they say, Your Mileage May Vary.
Edeyn, I'm praying for you. I hope you get the care you need.
Ray Drouillard
I beg to differ
Obviously we have had different experiences. Few, if any, of my extended family or friends have good to say about the NHS. However, my work (and leisure) has caused me to experience the health treatment in the UK, the US, Belgium, the Netherlands, Sweden, Germany, Israel and Sri Lanka. Comparing and contrasting them, it is depressing to admit that the speed and quality of treatment in the UK was worse than all but the last. Treatment for chronic, non-life threatening conditions is appalling! In my opinion, those who support an obviously inferior, failed, system have no brains. Too many years of indoctrination have resulted in a public which sees failure after failure but refuses to see the system is broken.
You wonder about the treatment of a child with a congenital condition in the US? Perhaps you should use, as baseline, the treatment in the UK of cancer patients where the NHS denies drugs for financial considerations.
BTW, I see you have fallen for the lie about the US checking the wallet before treatment. Not only is this lie contradicted by edeyn's narrative, but I have (three times) seen this lie is false. Once for myself in Maryland, once for my sister in Hawaii, and once for a great niece in Florida. However, I did have the German doctors asking whether I had fractured my elbow "at work", "at home" or "travelling between home and work" before X-raying the elbow. Still, they did X-ray the elbow far more quickly than when I fractured the other elbow in the UK. In the UK, you even wait for triage! The Germans also completed the treatment of my colleague for drug-resistant TB more quickly than the NHS saw me to check whether I was infected, despite two urgent requests from the German consultant.
Resorting to personal insults ...
... and avoiding a question by presenting another is not a very useful debating ploy.
viz: In my opinion, those who support an obviously inferior, failed, system have no brains. Too many years of indoctrination have resulted in a public which sees failure after failure but refuses to see the system is broken.
OK so in your opinion I have no brains and my direct experience of my treatment over nearly 70 years (the NHS didn't start until a few years after my birth) is irrelevant. I can only assume you're wealthy enough to pay for your own treatment - I am not.
You wonder about the treatment of a child with a congenital condition in the US? Perhaps you should use, as baseline, the treatment in the UK of cancer patients where the NHS denies drugs for financial considerations.
Why should I use the experience of cancer patients in the UK as a comparison of the treatment of a child with a congenital complaint in the USA? They're totally different questions. Certainly some new relatively untested drugs which may, in some circumstances extend the life of some cancer patients by a few months have not, as yet been approved. Show me a system which offers unrestricted access to all drugs unless the patient funds it out of their own pockets and I'll accept your argument. All health care systems ration treatment. In some is based on how much money you have, in others it's based on wider considerations of need and very hard choices. If I have terminal cancer then I'll accept that I'm going to die - we all die some time - a few extra months is usually neither here nor there. In my case, I'll be dead in 10/15 years anyway. I'm still curious about my original question, which remains unanswered.
BTW, I see you have fallen for the lie about the US checking the wallet before treatment. Not only is this lie contradicted by edeyn's narrative, but I have (three times) seen this lie is false.
False? maybe, but I can offer a specific example. Someone I know slightly who was competing in an event in which I was an official had this experience in the USA. He is very wealthy and hence only a very slight acquaintance :)
He was involved in a serious road accident in the USA (probably Florida, but not sure) in which he was badly injured and strapped to a spinal injury stretcher. At the hospital - before treatment - he was asked how he was intending to pay. They waited, without touching him as he struggled to get his wallet out which had enough cash to pay up front (I said he was wealthy). His father, who told me the story, was truly shocked. That may or may not be typical but it happened.
As you're clearly very much opposed to the NHS I suggest you start a movement to get it abolished and replaced with a capitalist system of your own devising, which, by definition, will be perfect. I'm sure you'll get overwhelming support.
The NHS isn't perfect. It may be damaged but in my experience it's certainly not broken. At least it wasn't last August when the doctor arrived at the house barely an hour after calling him for an acute, but not urgent condition. I was suitably impressed - Oh, and, of course, no charge.
Geoff
Not perfect but ....
Just to agree with you Geoff. The NHS doubtless has faults. It would be surprising if an organisation that size didn't. And perhaps it is patchy in its work with some areas/hospitals being better than others. And doubtless it is subject to Government interference prompted by short term political considerations.
But, warts and all, it does work. It least it always has for myself and my family.
The situation in the USA I cannot comment on. I have know nothing of it, had no experience of it.
But here, in a far from perfect world, I'm glad we have the NHS.
Geoff Is Very Smart Guy
Except -- why the multiple biking accidents? At what point does one learn?
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
No insult intended ...
But your complaisant defence "is a no-brainer" of a flawed system did appear to show a refusal to use those brains. Specifically when you write
"OK so in your opinion I have no brains and my direct experience of my treatment over nearly 70 years (the NHS didn't start until a few years after my birth) is irrelevant."
I have to ask whether you were intentionally ignoring the context in which I wrote? I listed seven other countries, of which six provided me with a better medical experience. Are you saying that the NHS is "the best of all possible worlds" as in Voltaire's Candide? Or are you saying that supporting a system when better alternatives exist is sane? Or are you saying that you have no personal experience of foreign health systems, so you are ignoring evidence from those systems?
"I can only assume you're wealthy enough to pay for your own treatment"
Geoff - why make an assumption? There was evidence that I use the NHS - I *WROTE* "The Germans also completed the treatment of my colleague for drug-resistant TB more quickly than the NHS saw me to check whether I was infected, despite two urgent requests from the German consultant." I use the NHS whenever practical, but know - from personal experience - that it is a flawed system. However, from receipt of an urgent request from a German specialist, it took the NHS three months before a consultant ordered tests for TB, and a further two months before the consultant reviewed those tests. This *IS* longer than the four months it took the German insurance-based health system to treat my colleague for TB. The Germans even tracked back the infection to the foreign source before the consultant saw me for the first time. Fact.
However, when necessary I will pay for treatment. I have back damage because of poor NHS treatment (See below). I always have physiotherapy before any long journey. When I can, I claim it on a corporate health policy. Otherwise, I pay out of my own pocket. I've given up attempting to get physiotherapy on the NHS, because by the time they come back with an appointment, I've returned from the trip.
"Why should I use the experience of cancer patients in the UK as a comparison of the treatment of a child with a congenital complaint in the USA? They're totally different questions."
Not at all. In both cases, accountants - whether in a US HMO, or in HMG's Treasury - have decided to refuse what some doctors consider justifiable treatment. This is fundamentally identical, in both cases, cash-limiting medical treatment by people who are not professionals. As you say "All health care systems ration treatment". However, NICE's remit is defined by the Treasury. I don't consider Government accountants morally superior to private sector accountants, so as far as I'm concerned, no difference.
Your tale of a car accident hits home to me. I have been involved in two car accidents. One on the M25, and the other on a rural road in Maryland. In the UK, the NHS did a cursory X-ray of my neck, and missed damage to the lower back. I now have to live with damage to the lower back and have to think carefully about any action which might affect the damaged part of my spine. In the US, as you say, they strap you to a spinal injury stretcher, and x-rayed my complete spine and inspected all the X-rays before unstrapping me. They then spent several hours picking glass out of me. Not a mention about payment until I was discharged. In the latter case, I made a complete recovery without scarring or further back damage. So, yes, I will admit that I have a jaundiced view about a flawed system - and I'm not talking about the US system.
"As you're clearly very much opposed to the NHS I suggest you start a movement to get it abolished and replaced with a capitalist system of your own devising, which, by definition, will be perfect. I'm sure you'll get overwhelming support."
Please, please. Why do you misrepresent my opinion that the NHS is flawed as an assertion that I am opposed to the NHS? I believe that flaws need correction, don't you??? Where is the evidence for your assumption that I want a capitalist system? Are you describing the German, the Swedish, the Dutch, or the Belgian systems as capitalist??? I would, however, suggest that for an approach that delivers the best quality treatment, following the Dutch, German, or Belgian insurance-based system (which include a state-owned insurer as one choice) with hospitals and GPs independently contracting outside politicians' influence delivers a better result for the population. If you describe this as capitalist, then the NHS must be described as unreformed communist - even to the superior treatment for the Nomenkultura.
California has laws that are SUPPOSED to prevent this, but ...
quite often we find that some hospitals are refusing admittance for financial reasons. This may actually be before the patient can get into the emergency room, or, more often, the ER will send them to a different, usually public ( government, for those of you in the UK, where a 'public' school is really a private one), hospital for admittance
All hospitals are supposed to divert a portion of all payments they receive into a fund to pay for those who cannot pay, or cannot prove that they can pay.
When I say SUPPOSED - I mean that they are required to take care of such patients BY CALIFORNIA LAW.
Shalimar has authorized me to tell you what happened in her case.
Some time back, the US government began making people becoming disabled wait two years before being eligible for US Medicare.
When she had to go to the hospital in July, there not only was no problem in getting excellent care at the county hospital, but they were able to get her enrolled in a county medical plan for one year, retroactive to the day she went into the ER. It is covering followup doctor's visit and medications for health conditions ( not including TG/TS related surgery, dental or mental - it doesn't cover TG/TS medications she was already on ), on a sliding scale based on income, greatly reducing the cost to her. It has a one year limit on it, potentially renewable, that will take her to 2 weeks short of when she can get Medicare based on her disability.
One of the most difficult things to give away is kindness.
It usually comes back to you.
Holly
It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice.
Holly
It's not just California
Many of the hospitals in the US are having financial difficulties because they have to treat people for free. Still, it continues to be done.
When my wife was bitten by our dog (who is no longer with us, BTW,) she was getting shocky, so I called an ambulance. I chose to treat my own wounds because we didn't have the money to pay -- but that was my decision. I wasn't in danger, and I healed just fine.
Mary was treated, and we paid what we needed to pay. The ambulance bill wasn't covered, but they allowed Mary to pay it off by performing public service. (You don't know how many times I was tempted to tell people that she was performing public service and let them draw their own conclusions. LOL)
We also found out that the ambulance company offers family insurance for something like $65.00 a year. Talk about affordable!
Like Aardvark said, anecdotal evidence doesn't tell the whole picture. You can always find bad stories. People are more likely to tell the bad than the good.
I have heard nothing but complaints about the VA (Veterans' Administration) medical system. When I finally decided to try it (prostate problems -- couldn't pee,) they got the paperwork through very quickly, we drove to Saginaw, and I was seen. After that, I can't say enough about the good care I have received -- and that includes treatment for depression.
Yes, that's anecdotal evidence. Aardvark already supplied us with some statistics.
Ray Drouillard
By most measures ...
... the NHS is abysmal. According to the accompanying article, among European countries, the NHS is inefficient, even for the money spent. Sure, the US spends the most of anyone in the world on health care, but it has the best results. If one has cancer, it's the place to be, as it has the highest cancer survival rates in the world.
For the rates of all cancers combined:
Iceland led the way in Europe among women with a rate of 61.8 years. The US rate was 62.9. England's rate was sixth from the bottom in Europe, behind Slovenia, at 52.7. Scotland's was the worst in Europe, at 48.0.
For men, the difference was even more stark:
US: 66.3, Sweden, the best in Europe: 60.3, England: 44.8.
UK cancer survival rate lowest in Europe
I'd say the facts speak for themselves.
Anecdotal evidence is not a good statistical indicator, yet I've had a few personal experiences with US health care that might be illuminating:
My mother, who is 81, has had stomach cancer off and on for about two years now, but seems to be clear at the moment. She was diagnosed very quickly, has had very expensive chemo and radiation therapy, a few operations and physical therapy to relieve gastrointestinal problems. Although she lost a lot of weight and is weaker than she was, she not only survived, she's getting stronger, and is back to her two mile a day walks.
When my son was one, we noticed an odd swelling suddenly appeared above his ear. My wife took him to our HMO that morning. He was given a CAT within a couple of hours, as a precaution. The results were unclear, so the HMO made arrangements with Duke Medical Center, one of the foremost pediatrics institutes in the US, and when we took him there that afternoon, he received an MRI immediately. From what I hear about the NHS and its notorious waiting lists, this sequence of events, I understand, is unlikely to happen in the UK. It turns out that the early diagnosis of Histiocytosis X was critical. A day or two's delay would have made all the difference, and this fast-growing, bone-eating cancer would have eaten its way into the bloodstream. He underwent an operation, radiation and chemotherapy, and was monitored for many years, but instead of being dead, or stunted and mentally retarded, as the majority of this rare disease's victim's usually are, he made it through, and is a talented graphics artist in his junior year at college with an internship at a prestigious NY firm.
My ex-girlfriend was not a US citizen, nor did she have health insurance. She was in NYC when she felt suddenly weak. The health clinic didn't turn her away. The next day, she was unconscious, in intensive care, in a coma, and not expected to survive. The doctors called it a form of meningitis, but they never did find out exactly what was wrong with her. She was in ICU for two weeks and stayed in the hospital for two months. I went up there for a week to see her and to handle the financial matters. Sure, the hospital wanted to know all about her bank accounts and assets, which were negligible, but seeing it for myself, I'd hardly say that her care suffered as a result. The total bill was just under $130,000. As she couldn't pay, a NYC health card was issued. (She didn't even have a green card at the time!), and NYC picked up the costs. After a few months with her family in China to recover, she came back to the US, and she was no crazier than usual. She credits the US for saving her life, and stated unequivocally that China would never have done anything like that. In China, despite their socialist Utopia, people are routinely denied medical treatment if they can't pay.
Her financial treatment was somewhat unusual, BTW. Usually the hospital will try to arrange some payment schedule, even if it is nominal, and the govt., through medicare or medicaid, depending on how old one is, will pay a lot of it.
Aardvark
"Happiness is when what you think, what you say, and what you do are in harmony."
Mahatma Gandhi
"Happiness is when what you think, what you say, and what you do are in harmony."
Mahatma Gandhi
Thanks
Thanks for giving us some good examples of what our health care system can do. It certainly isn't perfect, but I haven't seen anything better. Putting people on waiting lists for health care is a waste of life -- and, when you get right down to it, it's also a waste of money. It's a lot cheaper to treat most illnesses when you get them early.
When I heard about people dying while on the waiting list for treatment (including cancer and cardiac treatment,) I had a really hard time believing that this was happening in a civilized country.
Ray Drouillard
The fact that the American health system sucks....
has nothing to do with other health systems. It's an alignment of greed and hypocrisy where money is more important than the health of the people applying for health care to the corporate guardians of health & well being; they run a monopoly and only the few that can pay are allowed to enter.
No, I'm not objective and I don't see any reason to pretend to be. I lost my job due to the machinations of a incestuous pit of feudalistic administrators - I basically did my job too well and pissed off the wrong people. Yeah, I'm bitter and I'm sure they'd argue otherwise, but the long and short of it was that I lost my job and therefore health insurance. Welcome to America. I've worked hard my whole life and always tried to do and be my best for those in my charge, but that didn't mean crap; I didn't have the money.
Although I am rather healthy, that doesn't matter when the flu & etc. are going around. I was able to arrange a basic health insurance coverage, but I had to fight with the company every time, the few times, I used it - they simply refused to pay, saying that whatever procedure I had done while in the doctor's office was not covered, even a simple check-up. When I provided documentation, including highlighted copies of their own policy, they simply rejected it. Being stressed out, sick and all but unemployed, I had little time or energy to fight them, but I did. My persistence paid off, but I couldn't help but wonder how many people gave in to their legalistic delaying tactics - according to the contract, if disputes weren't settled by a certain period of time after the initiation of the process, the company automatically won, by default. It was at that time that I realized the truth of Michael Moore's Sicko - if you haven't seen it, please do - from my experience it's a very insightful indictment of the American health care system.
My solution, finally, was to not get sick. Ingenious, I know - think I can patten it?
I apologize for my rant and I hope you're feeling better Edeyn - please do find a better hospital - there are good doctors and nurses out there who are just as caught up in the system as the patients, so please don't give up!
YW
He conquers who endures. ~ Persius
I empathize with you
Since 1990 I have experienced chest pains, shorness of breath, difficulty to breath and tingling in my left arm.
Each time I have been to the hospial they tell me it is not my heart, but I spend four to six hours in the emergency room before they tell me they want to keep me for observation.
I have refused each time to be kept for observation.
I am lucky I am a disabled Vet.
The hospital is supposed to keep you to ensure you are okay/sounds to me like those who saw you were not prepared for someone with a cardiac arrest. If I were you I would go to another emergency room. unless like where I live is the only game in town.
I actually refuse to be taken o the local hospital. I've seen people with hospitalization insurance treated just as bad as you were. I have the feeling your being transgendered played a part of your treatment,
I would go back during the day and ask to speak to the hospital administrator. File a grievance on the doctors and nurses who treated you. You should have been kept overnight for observation, that is the right of a patient no matter what their monetary status
Jill Micayla
May you have a wonderful today and a better tomorrow
Jill Micayla
Be kinder than necessary,Because everyone you meet
Is fighting some kind of battle.
Distance
This ER is less than a quarter mile from my home. The next closest is something like 20 minutes away on the freeway.
If you are a student
you might be able to get basic catastrophic insurance at a very reasonable cost. It happened to me 16 years ago and I did not get it in time and had to be hospitalized for appendicitis. It was a financial mess. There is not a ton of coverage with it but it is better than nothing.
Kim
I Know Our Country Can Do Better But What?
Our country can do better about providing care for people without insurance, but a government run system is not the answer. To know how screwed up the U.S government healthcare is, you only have to see how Medicare and the Veterans Administration are run. Hospitals and doctor routinely double and triple bill the taxpayer for care. The Veterans hospitals are an all day ordeal. I have taken my dad to the VA for various appointments. We can get there at 6AM and he might be seen by 2 or 3PM if he's lucky. I have heard stories where people in emergency situations have died in the waiting area waiting for care. Canadians charter buses and come here to the U.S for treatment of different ailments that the Canadian healthcare system denies treatment for or puts people on a long list before they are ever treated. I know our system is far from perfect and we need to rein in the greed and for profit mentality. Our private system still treats patients in a timely manner in most cases. The situation with your care was despicable because of your health history. There are more hospitals that care more for the bottom line than the lives of patients. To me, charging $75,000 to $100,000 for Heart Bypass is excessive! My mother's bypass was $75,000. I remember leaving the hospital after she was resting back in her room, and passing a row of high priced cars owned by the doctors. I said to myself " Well Doc, It looks like my mother just bought you a new Mercedes" There should be a national price list established for various treatments and surgeries that is more in line with actual costs. The price list should be capped. If a doctor or hospital tries to charge more than that, then they should face fines or license suspension. The hospitals got in hot water for discharging mothers and babies too soon because insurance companies would only pay for one day past delivery. They had to pass a law requiring longer stays.
Hugs,
Jen
We are the ONLY 'Civilized' country without it
Why is that? Is it because everyone else in the world are "Commies" or such? No! It's because it works, and the populace as a whole find it logical and right and the better alternative.
Why is socialized a dirty word in this country?
Socialism
Our country is becoming more socialistic every day -- see the Paulson/Bush plan to increase government ownership of business. See the Democratic Congress' plan for owning the auto industry.
I like the hybrid plan that Obama has presented -- as long as it isn't step A in move toward nationalized healthcare.
My nephew was a lead lobbyist for the tobacco industry for years and quite successful -- so successful the drug industry hired him. He actually looks a lot like Nick Naylor of Thank You for Smoking.
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
ohmygod
wow canada charters buses here for better care. I didnt know that. Why wont canadian hospitals deny different treatment for some conditions? It seems like they shouldnt be allowed to deny anything. Our hospitals dont deny anything, if you can pay it somehow or have insurance to pay it. If not then you dont get it.
If we do socialized medicine, the doctors themselfs should be in charge not bureaucrats.
In Canada, Doctors Have Denied Treatment Based On The Cost
There are certain treatments they deem too costly and they deny them, so people come here. There was a case where this guy needed an Angioplasty and later Bypass, but it was denied because it cost too much. We have run into some of the same problems here with Managed Care Health Insurance Plans. If the insurance company thinks something is too expensive, they will keep the doctor from doing it. Doctors are given bonuses for keeping costs down. They are encouraged to recommend lower cost treatments even if the patient really needs the procedure they deny.
Hugs,
Jen
yeah it sucks
both systems try to keep the costs down at the expense of peoples healths. I figured universal healthcare by the government would care more because the taxes we pay go into it. guess the stingy bast***s wont which is why if we ever implement it here the doctors theselfs must be in complete charge of it but thats just a dream. The congress would never approve it, they would want to be in charge of it. they would never go for a bill that would remove them from the authority.
Medicare and VA
To know how screwed up the U.S government healthcare is, you only have to see how Medicare and the Veterans Administration are run.
I beg to differ. I am receiving VA care, and am very satisfied with it. In fact, when I go back to work and get health insurance, I want to find a way to still receive VA care.
Also, my three special needs kids are on a form of medicare. They receive very good care. I have no complaints at all.
Ray Drouillard
I work for the NHS
It's big, it's inefficient and it makes mistakes, but then it's British and we specialise in cock-ups. It was amongst the first comprehensive healthcare systems in the world and is still amongst the most cost efficient in terms of administration costs.
It could be better, most things are usually improveable. It's a pain to work for, relying on goodwill and ingenuity from its staff because there is never enough time to do everything. I regularly work longer than I'm paid. Why? because I care.
I also care that things keep changing to make it easier to privatise, the split into purchaser and provider enabled that. We spend over 40 billion pounds on the NHS every year, more than on the armed services, so it's bound to be politicised. It's also the biggest employer in Western Europe and most of the money is spent on salaries and wages.
It could always do better, we do keep trying - those of us who work in it, but feel betrayed by various governments who want to change things to save money.
There is private healthcare here as well, some of it not for profit, such as BUPA, others just for profit.
There is also an attitude amongst many of the general public here, that it's all free, so get as much as you can. The system is abused, and is often undervalued because it's free. It isn't free, we pay for it, £40B, but that won't stop the abusers and the hypochondriacs, because it's free at the point of delivery.
We live in strange times, where hospital staff are attacked by drunks while trying to help them, where equipment is stolen from the backs of ambulances while they are dealing with emergencies, or they and other emergency services are attacked by gangs of youths hurling stones and bottles when they respond to 999 calls.
I've had surgery twice from the NHS, my SRS and a microdiscectomy on my back. If I try I can find fault, but then I could probably do so in a private system too. Even though I work in the system, I have to wait like everyone else.
It isn't perfect, it never will be, but it's all we have and I'm still pround to wear a name badge which has three little letters in blue on it - NHS, but then I'm a caring, Guardian reading, dinosaur, so what do I know?
Angharad
Angharad
I was there too
I too had a badge with NHS written on it and I too wanted to do the best for it that I could.
Even as a contractor, I still worked more hours than I was paid for and am hoping to rejoin soon.
This time it will be in a management position and I guess that will mean working even longer hours than before, but I too care and want the best for people who regularly have to wait even for the most trivial of reasons.
The people with whom I worked earlier this year all displayed that caring attitude that Angharad has spoken of and although it has its faults, it's a good place to work as you feel you're definitely making a difference.
Nice one Ang.
And nice one to all the workers in the NHS
NB
I don't just look it, I really AM that bad...
Caring professionals
Thanks for bringing that up, Nick.
While the coldly logical and heartless systems do what they can to save money, the real people providing the care are generally very caring. I have seen this time and time again.
So, who gets crunched? It's the medical people. My wife is constantly complaining about insufficient staffing. The stress on the medical people can be debilitating.
It's even worse in the places that pay less because they have a harder time attracting good employees. The nurses and CMAs (Certified Medical Assistants) that are rejected by the better places are hired by the places that are best avoided.
I'm proud of the way Mary treats her patients. They are always glad to see her.
Ray
Me 2
I work for the NHS too :-) Can't say any of it is efficient but hey it pays my wages ^_^
my personal uninformed opinion is
since now we are discussing the option of socialized medicine
I will say that I am for it. Our hospitals are trying to make money and they make alot of it. A minor operation can cost half a million dollars. insurance is expensive. It may have been working for a larger part of the population in the best of times but now with utterly massive debilitating layoffs do to the recession, many more people will find themselves simply out of luck. Our hospitals only have to stabilize a patent. That is the law and then their shown the door. I am for any option that increases the available of quality health care for everyone. I would gladly pay more taxes if it were done. I am not sure how we extend heathcare for everyone in the united states. We have a population of 300 million. so 40 billion wouldnt cover it. It would probably take a budget of hundreds of billions or probably even a trillion a year. I am sure we could all cover the cost somehow.
Small Business Owner
For my small US business I spend nearly $19,000 per employee for FICA and other employee benefits. "Joe the Plumber" was the lamest excuse I ever heard for an argument. Health cost alone is nearly an average of $8,000 a year for my employees -- and they pay 20% of the cost.
I think we're going to have to change a great deal in our expectations and demnds from the health care system.
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
My 2¢
Before anything else I have to say: Get well soon, Edeyn. It is a scary, scary thing, I know, and I'm praying for you and sending you the best wishes I can. Go and find a good doctor; hurry. )Big hospitals are not always the best, and small over worked clinic sometimes hold the most caring professionals). Take care of your self, Please.
Now, onto the rest of this discussion. The providing of care for its citizens by a government is not socialism. I will even be so radical as to say that insuring the welfare of the governed is one of the purposes of government. At any rate it is no more socialistic than guanteeing a profit margin to an ostensibly private company (as is done for the insurance companies.)
I am a bit luckier than Edeyn; I do have insurance. It is privately purchased and the cheapest I can find. In the case of ordinary devastating illnesses or regular care I spend hours at clinic waiting to see doctors that graduated last week (still probably much smarter than I though.) (When I was younger (about three economic bubbles ago) and needed it much less, I had much better stuff, and got to sit on upholstered seat for much less time, and saw older doctors.)
When I had my heart attack though I was taken to a suburban hospital and think I got excellent treatment.
This is probably similar to the care received by UK citizens under the NHS. The difference is I have to pay for it every month, and it cost me more.
What happened to Edeyn is not 'supposed' to happen. But it does all the time. There are major cities and large towns that have a very hard time supporting "charity" hospitals - they aren't, bills are sent to the uninsured too - and the service is sporadic at best.
Saying that people come to the USA for treatment is not on point, people from the states go to Europe for treatment too. Saying that you got excellent care when you visited is also off point, you did because you could afford it. The care at the top level is not the problem. It is the care at the middle and the bottom that is the issue! And for both of those groups it is horrible in the United States!
It is a bureaucracy of epic size that is run for the profit of those who do not use it. It cost America billions every year to support. We lose production hours because people avoid getting costly preventive care. Industry supports this monster with workman's compensation and other insurance cost that is out of line with the cost faced by foreign competitors. The huge rewards in law suits are due to the excessive cost of projected health care, that would not be included in tort rewards in any other industrialized country, because that would already be taken care of.
We can not solve a problem, a very real problem, by throwing meaningless epitaphs, heard on faux news networks at it. And don't think that it just effects 'them', because you think you have yours. It is taking more and more money out of you pocket each day, and tearing down out industries as well.
(I had been good for almost a month, even avoided the discussion where peeps were bragging about the size of their rods, and now I've blown it.)
Joy - and we are all in this together, that's why they call us a nation; Yes, we can. (I hope);
Jan
I'm very glad you didn't.
A great mind, a wonderful person, and a talented writer, as well as a dear friend, would have been lost, and I would miss you, terribly.
Stick around, Edeyn. The best is yet to come.
Huggles 'n love,
Catherine Linda Michel
As a T-woman, I do have a Y chromosome... it's just in cursive, pink script.