If you have a problem. . .do something about it.
For the last decade, or so, BC has become more and more a haven for serial stories and less and less a home for standalone stories.
There are some great writers here. I don't understand why they prefer to write mainly serials.
The only thing I can do about it is to write a standalone story and stick my pen in the proverbial dyke. (I will be gentle -- and hope she doesn't mind.)
Jill
BTW: Fruit Loops alludes to Cereal and Dykes
Well it depends
Some serials seem to last forever long after they've expired whereas others are short before they go soggy.
And before you stick your wick into some dike be sure to check if said dike wasn't meant to have leaks to prevent cracks. And while some dislike needing to be sticked others may take it the wrong way.
Is There. . .
. . .a wrong way to take it?
Jill
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
If
If I answer this, with what I want to answer it with, it would just show how depraved I is.
Froot Loops?
I notice a lot of that on Fictionmania as well. I think that there's some mindset about producing more and more serials and long stories. Writers just might be out of ideas for nice short stories. (For example, we haven't heard too much from Bru lately.)
-- Daphne Xu
But
There are some that just can't let it go.
LET IT GO! LET IT GO! LET IT GO!
Actually...
It is Froot Loops :)
Solos
I prefer writing solos. I just can't bring myself to publish something that's not complete. And I seem to be able to wrap up a story 25 thousand words or less. I very rarely feel the need to continue a story. I often leave the story a little open ended so the reader can dream their own sequel.
Hugs
Patricia
Happiness is being all dressed up and HAVING some place to go.
Semper in femineo gerunt
Ich bin eine Mann
Impressions...
Hey, hey.
About the impression that there are more serials than stand-alones - I guess I cannot really say that is a problem per se. I do like stand-alone stories, too, but the fact that I like a story will probably mean I'd like to see the same characters again, or the same storyline continued.
I suppose it's like going to a restaurant and having a really nice meal, and I'd want to go back to that restaurant again sometime, and order the same dish.
But, of course, after a while, one gets tired of eating the same dish over and over, which is analogous to getting tired of a particular serial story's "universe," or losing interest in the serial when the serial gets played out and each new installment is just rehashing old tropes or themes or plots that previous installments have already gone through, or the installments might have become meandering.
To paraphrase Elsa from Frozen, writers need to know when to let it go, or at least know how to end a story instead of dragging them on and on... We can't all be as good as Angharad, after all.
I think there are four reasons for the appearance of not enough stand-alones and too many serials -
* One reason there are so many serials is because people ask for continuations of their favorite stories, or new stories of their favorite characters. And what writer here isn't flattered if their reader tells them that?
* Another reason there are so many serials is because it's just so much easier to build on current stories.
* And another reason there are too many serials is because people simply just have trouble ending them.
* And one reason that there are too few stand-alones is because it's hard to make a story from scratch each and every time without repeating themselves.
Again, for those... "excitable" friends of ours, if you disagree, please, please let's be civil and not be confrontational? Also, keep in mind these are just my personal opinions and are not meant to overide other people's opinions. Cool?
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There's also the simple fact
There's also the simple fact that short stories are a dying art. Most people don't actually know how to compress an entire tale into just a few pages. I read about that from various SF/F editors over the years as I was reading anthologies (as well as my subscriptions to several SF/F magazines).
An excellent example in comparative skill sets are HP Lovecraft and Stephen King. What Lovecraft wrote in less than 30 pages, Stephen King requires 300+. Same with Dean Koontz and Michael Creighton. Koontz has written a number of short stories. Creighton doesn't seem to have the skill set.
I'm not saying people can't write them - it's just that since the 1970's, the emphasis has shifted from magazine/anthology sized works to novels, and even to excessive novels. (See Stephen King above). I mean, King competes with Proust regularly. (À la recherche du temps perdu: Du côté de chez Swann )
I'll get a life when it's proven and substantiated to be better than what I'm currently experiencing.
Too many fruits in a loop?
Personally I don't find that there are too many serials. However, too few solos may be a problem. As an omnivore I like both. If a serial runs of out steam, which some do, there is no obligation to keep reading.
A small reminder, on this site there is a treasure trove of short stories already published. They are easy to access via "solos" on the top of the page. For those who, unlike Jill, haven't been on this site for a very long time or don't have a good memory there's a lot to (re)discover there.
Also, as Jill noted, you can always do something about it yourself.
As for me I'm a moody writer, i.e. I only write a story when I'm in the mood which I haven't been lately but I DO have posted a few short stories here.
Bru
Memory???
Often when I read an old short story here I'll decide to leave a comment -- only to find I've already posted that comment some years ago.
Jill
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
Earlier Commenting
I've done that a few times: I'm about to comment, or comment, and discover that I've already commented on the story some years back. It's usually not the same comment for me, although (fortunately) the ideas are consistent. I've never gone so bad as to progress (or regress) from "the mind-control in this story is scary and pernicious" to "this was a nice mind-control story."
-- Daphne Xu
I don't think that's bad
I think no one would mind that.
Well, on second thought, maybe some of our "excitable" readers and writers would. I should probably have said "I wouldn't mind."
I guess my point is, these are comments to a story, after all, and it would be very ungracious of a writer to complain. I know I wouldn't complain. I'd probably make some smart-alecky joke, but that would be the extent of it.
I suppose this was after some time had passed since the first time you posted your comment, and your repeated comment was a result of re-reading the story. If so, then that's totally okay, I think. What would probably be unacceptable is if you are deliberately doing it for some reason, and it would be obvious if you were, and the writer would be within her rights to call the cops on you and let the admin peeps know.
And if it wasn't obvious, then it doesn't really matter, right? Coz if you were needling the writer for some reason, and she doesn't know that she's being needled, then all it means is that you've been hoisted by your own petard, right?
Anyway, all's I'm sayin is, I think it would be fine.
I have always felt very sad that I don't get too many comments from others except from my handful of "regulars" (i.e. the nice readers who regularly comment), and I am very envious of writers who get tons of comments.
I guess it's my manner that discourages people from commenting. And it's not that all I want are positive feedback only. I actually don't mind people disagreeing with me. What I don't want are argumentative, rude comments, or comments whose only purpose was to point out the author's grammar problems or technical errors, which would only result in embarrassment for her, and my constant commenting on that has probably made people afraid to react/reply/comment lest I pounce.
What I want are chats about storylines and story elements, plots and characters, story ideas and writing styles, about what one likes to read or what one's preferences are, what she'd like to read about, or suggestions, in/to future chapters, to ask or give advice, AND, of course constructive criticism. (Personally, when one sez they were just being brutally honest, etc. that's just a load of bullcrap - that's only appropriate if you are very, very close to that person, and even if you are, you shouldn't say it to your friend publicly, otherwise, you're just covering up your insensitivity and poor social skills, and if you're called out for it, you're just hiding your inability to apologize.)
Anyway, I guess what I'm saying is that, without feedback, it's almost as bad as shouting into the void: if no one replies, then I have to assume that no one's there. And I think I'm one of those that doesn't get as much feedback as most, so the occasional repetition of a comment is not so bad.
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I'm waiting for Danny to
I'm waiting for Danny to finish before I re-read everything. I don't want to get into nitpick mode with you -- again. At least not until I see exactly where you're heading. :) That's why you haven't seen comments from me on the stories you're posting right now.
As for 'brutally honest'? I don't really know much of any other way to be. I don't believe I've told much of anyone "Your stuff sucks.", but I've gotten pretty close, when it was someone who could have done a better job just running their so-called story through Microsoft Word 6's spell checker. Usually, when I _do_ have unpleasant things to say, I _also_ give some examples on how it could be corrected. If you're not willing to walk the walk, don't talk the talk.
(My wife likes to say "You're going to get me killed!" when I won't disguise my opinions.)
I'll get a life when it's proven and substantiated to be better than what I'm currently experiencing.
About Danny
That's your option about Danny. But I'm telling you now, you're gonna have quite a long while to wait - there's definitely going to be a Part 8 now. mweheheheheh...
/
As to your comment, "I don't really know much of any other way to be," you know, of course, that acknowledging a problem doesn't excuse it nor solve it. But as Zig Ziglar, that often-quoted person during corporate team building exercises, said, "the first step in solving a problem is to recognize that it does exist."
So now that you've taken the first step, then I guess you need to take the subsequent steps...
It's always not what you say, it's how you say it. In your example, instead of saying, "your stuff sucks," why not say "I don't like your stuff," or "your stuff isn't good." Saying that says the same thing without the insulting and denigrating tone. Only those... "excitable" people feel they need to insult or put down or be disagreeable when they're making their points, and I'm sure you're not one of those. Having unpleasant things to say doesn't mean you have to be an a$$hole about it, right?
Here's another example: instead of saying something like "save it. It wasn't you," you could say, "it's okay - it wasn't you." Both say the same thing but the first one was disagreeable and confronting, and the second one was constructive.
See?
Why not write a draft and review it before posting? Better yet, why not have it looked over by a friend before you post it? It's always good to have another set of eyes looking.
I can help you not to be too "excitable" by reviewing your stuff first before you post, and maybe you can do the same thing for me - I'm also working on the same problem, after all.
I know you know all of this already, so I hope you don't leave it at "I don't really know much of any other way to be."
I also hope you take this in the constructive spirit it was written.
click here to read all of my blogs,
click here to read my stories in BCTS, and
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You're misunderstanding, and
You're misunderstanding, and that's likely my fault. Just because I'm brutally honest doesn't mean I use egregiously erroneous word choices. If anything, it means I have to fight hard to find the right words to use, because 'suck' doesn't actually say anything, unless you are talking about vacuum. Your general troll will use hot button words that don't mean much, and will often expand their statement out to cover every one and every thing, as if they were all identical. I'm in IT, so I learned a long time ago to be extremely specific - especially when people try to pin me down on a time and date I'll be on site (when emergencies happen, and everyone thinks that they're the most important customer and I shouldn't expect to be able to keep a schedule for anyone but them.)
Sometimes I end up sesquipedalian, but despite the existence of a thesaurus, similar words don't truly mean the same thing.
"There's nowt so queer as folk" applies to language as well as people. (Queer, odd, strange, weird - they have similar meanings, but not quite the same.)
I'll get a life when it's proven and substantiated to be better than what I'm currently experiencing.
Now that I've posted my story for tonight...
Now that I have today's scheduled story banked and posted, I'm gonna take time out and react here.
I have some ideas in relation to what you just said, but let's go to the colloquial meaning of "suck" for a moment.
- - - - -
You can say something like "life sucks" or "you suck big time" or "having to work on a weekend sucks." But it doesn't literally mean to suck something like sucking a drink from a straw. It comes from phrases like "you suck lemons," which means "you are leaving things you're supposed to be doing and giving it to other people," or "go suck lemons," which means "do something bad to yourself," or "teaching grandma to suck eggs," which means you're teaching something to someone something they already know, or "this suck balls," which means, though it literally means sucking testicles, it colloquially means you're being forced to do something extremely, extremely unpleasant (aside from the homophobic shades of the phrase, of course).
I am sure there are more, but these are the most common ones.
For the "excitable" people out there who might like to debate things, here are the references:
* https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/go+suck+a+lemon
* https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Suck%20a%20L...
* https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teaching_grandmother_to_suck...
* https://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/sucks+balls
The phraseology of all of these colloquial sayings are already abbreviated, as you see, but still, these phrases have all been conflated to the current colloquial version of "suck," folding in all of these into that one word, so someone saying something or someone "sucks" is truly, truly bad. Here's a reference (this is from a pop blog, though, so it's not really a reference, but it gets across what I'm saying):
* https://www.spanishdict.com/answers/171572/you-suck-what-doe...
To be called a sucker, is, of course a different thing altogether - you're a sucker if you're gullible, or you're easily fooled. Here's the reference:
* https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sucker
- - - - -
So... After that little time out for being AR...
I think I wasn't saying that you make egregiously erroneous word choices. Rather, the manner of your selection: saying "your story sucks," for example, is precisely correct and is 100% on-target, but it's the "flavor" that I'm referring to - aside from just saying "I think your story isn't a good story," you said "I think your story isn't a good story" and you zinged that person too (see the, ahem, very detailed thesis-long explanation above
).
I think what I'm saying is, if we all can avoid including the zingers in what we say, that's what makes for a good commenter or reviewer (indeed what makes for a person with good EQ). Of course, some of us, especially the "excitable" ones among us, just cannot resist the teeny-tiny momentary satisfaction and adrenalin rush of zinging someone.
"Your story sucks!" is pretty zingy, right? while saying, "I think your story isn't a good story" is pretty boring and wishy-washy, right? So how do you say something, not zing him, and not be wishy-washy? Ahhh, that is the million-dollar question, after all!
If you're not smart enough, then you take the obvious solution that comes from the "fight-or-flight" part of your brain - the primitive, reptilian limbic part of the brain that requires no thinking, but if you've read enough, you've listened to the opinions of others, then you'll be smart (and kind) and find a non-wishy-washy way to say what you want yet leave out the zingers.
I am trying not to use my lizard brain, as well - it's difficult, but I'm trying - and use my thinking brain instead.
Hey, by the way, I'm not trying to cast aspersions on your style of responding or intentions per se - I'm just using this reply of mine as my soap box to air yet another one of my tedious points again. Hope you don't mind.
I'm getting off the soap box now.
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I don't believe I've ever
I don't believe I've ever said, to an author, that a story sucks, was garbage, or even that the editor was the misbegotten offspring of a hyena and a dung beetle. (Those stories are mostly on other sites)
Using similar words to what I've done in the past, I've said that the story wasn't the sort of thing I was particularly interested in, but I could see where some people would enjoy it. (Rather extreme femdom, IIRC) I then went on to provide some examples of what he had in the story, why they weren't what _I_ would see, and some places where certain things could be tightened up and adjusted to fit the main theme.
It was a response to an author being particularly upset about low grade voting on the story (storiesonline.net), without any _reasons_ given for those low grades. (If you want the actual chain, because part of this is bad memory, I can pull it out of my SOL email and send it you in a PM.)
The closest I've ever come (on here) to calling a story a bad story... wasn't. There is/was a story with a good premise, good characters, but an absolutely terrible stream of consciousness flipping back and forth with first person, third person, and second person, jammed together into a mishmash of paragraphs and chapters, while also bouncing back and forth temporally in the story.
Really, what the story needed was a solid editor, but at the time I didn't have (and really still don't) have the time to do full rewrites for someone. I could only try to point out some things to try for that author. Frankly, I don't even know if they're still around. l do know that I've fought my way through the story two or three times because it _was_ a good idea - it's just it was only marginally easier to read than Russian novels.
As for the 'zingers'? I've used those - extremely pointedly - at people. I, just yesterday, wrote up a very pointed and roughly insulting post on another (car) forum, dealing with someone who was wanting information on how to perform rather dangerous modifications on his engine. After I and several others pointed out why it wasn't a good idea, and then asked if he had the tools or background to attempt it, he want on a rant about how he knew how to do everything, and everyone on the forum was just blocking him because of jealousy or something.
My post was left intact by the other forum members and moderators - with just one correction (in a quote) about another forum I wasn't aware of.
As for that soap box? Is it Ajax? The Foaming Cleanser?
I'll get a life when it's proven and substantiated to be better than what I'm currently experiencing.
I am sure you don't
I am sure you don't do that here. I was referring yo your example of "your story sucks," and when I said "your" and "you" etc. - it was metaphoric at best, since it was connected to your example instead of to you personally? In any case, I apologize if what I said seemed like a personal attack. Please believe me when I say it wasn't.
Also, you mentioned that post you made in that car forum - I suppose your intent was good, but the way it was said was not - which just made the one who said whatever it was about doing some wrongheaded thing more recalcitrant, and just became hard-headed and he just got mad. The thing, I suppose, one could have done, was explained why it was a bad idea, citing perhaps some references and such, and to say it without being insulting (as you said you were - "roughly insulting post" et cetera) , and maybe he would have heard what you and your friends had to say instead of being rendered deaf by his hurt pride, and a need to retaliate.
Just my two bits. I, of course, don't have the right to butt in.
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Oh - my response was _after_
Oh - my response was _after_ the ignoramus had already gone off the deep end. At that point, I'd had enough of him.
Here's the short. He entered a forum dealing with a discontinued station wagon. Yes, a four cylinder, transverse mounted engine, station wagon. He was asking (close to demanding) information on how to boost the power of the engine so he could use it for, basically, street racing. I went through the spiel about the engine not being built for it. I was then attacked for not actually giving him the information he wanted - apparently explaining that the car isn't built for street racing, and that the engine was limited wasn't 'helpful'. Another member of the forum, who actually has _worked_ for a race group in the past, explained that it wasn't a good idea - in fact, the manufacturer _changed engines_ when they built a 'sport' version of the car. He then asked if the OP even had the right tools to test modified engines properly. This idiot exploded, and expounded on how he had lots of experience porting and milling lawnmower, go-kart, and chainsaw type engines, and how that made him perfectly capable of hot rodding an aluminum block engine that has already shown that it's insanely picky just about spark plugs. (and didn't need any of those fancy tools) He then ranted and raved about how poor the forum was, and that he was getting better information from a busier forum. The forum I'm on is about a car that was EOL in 2010. The forum that's busier is toyotanation - which includes _all_ Toyotas. Another glaring hint of the person's lack of thought.
My final post basically pointed out how he was giving the stereotypical response of the ignorant towards those who are educated, and that trying to do the work he was doing was going to end in expensive tears; dangerous ones. (Firing spark plugs through the hood is sort of the minimum.)
I'll get a life when it's proven and substantiated to be better than what I'm currently experiencing.
Just a quick note.
Just a quick note.
"I don't know any other way to be." points to the fact that if you are not willing to express your plain opinion, you're doing the one thing that I refuse to do, and always have. You're lying. If you think your hips are too big for a skirt, don't ask me for an opinion unless you're willing to hear it. (That's one of those passive aggressive questions that drives me nuts.) So, for me, I have two choices. I tell the truth as I see it, or I don't say anything. The closest I'll get to a lie is simply not telling everything unless asked. Just be ready for the answer if you actually ask! :)
I'll get a life when it's proven and substantiated to be better than what I'm currently experiencing.
I like the story to be
I like the story to be finished. Serials too. With finished serials are some problems: I sometimes forget to leave a kudo while moving to the next chapter. Then usually the last chapter ties all loose ends and anything I've been about to comment is left somewhere in one of the previous chapters.
A General Observation On Short Stories
For those of us that started on dialup BBSs, we had to download stories on 300 baud modems, and you paid for each and every kb you used. And you had a very finite amount of data each month. (You can't imagine the thrill I felt when I got my first 1200 baud modem!) This favored the short story. If an author wanted to be read, they wrote short stories.
Part of it applies to short stories in general. The "pulps" paid by the printed word. The longer the story the less likely an editor was to buy it. A longer story might sell, but by the time it hit print huge chunks of it had been chopped out. Not printed not paid for. And editors are just as lazy as the rest of us, the stories that required less work were more likely to sell.
No author likes to see his pride and joy hacked into bits. Nor did they like to write material for free, which is what all those hacked bits represented. So they wrote to fill a hole, or a standard size.
All of this combined to reward short, concise stories. Whether you were paid in bucks or reads you learned to write what was selling.
Just an added thought. Those that feel they are being picked on should take a look at those old pulp magazines and read the Letters section. You that think you are being roasted have only been lightly singed by comparison. Those old time authors were being dunked in pots of molten metal. Thick skins were as necessary as typewriters.
“When a clown moves into a palace, he doesn’t become a king. The palace becomes a circus.” - Turkish Proverb
I write both short stories and serials ...
... but I tend to write the story length based on the idea behind it. If I have an idea that speaks to me enough to stand on its own but isn't necessarily strong enough to carry a longer story or novel, I'll write a short story.
Randa
Well...
I’ve been known to be a little loopy at times.
Love, Andrea Lena