I help run a yearly convention. A year and a half ago or so, one of our attendees transitioned MtF. As far as I know, she has had no troubles, other than some wrong name usage (she has been coming to the convention for 10+ years). The wrong name usage dropped from last year to this year. Even my very conservative friends have treated her well, doing their best to use her correct name.
The problem is that she will wear his old clothes, and to be honest that is very confusing. The shapeless shirts and such leave her looking pretty much looking like he did, especially from behind. What I would like to know is would it be appropriate to talk to her about this, and how would I bring it up. I won't see her for another year, so I have plenty of time to figure this out.
So should I, next year approach her or not?
Comments
No
Presumably she knows what she is doing, and if you don't see her except for the convention you don't know her well enough to take her to task for her clothing choices. Unsolicited advise is rarely welcome.
I went outside once. The graphics weren' that great.
Diagnoses From a Distance is usually wrong
I wish I had a chance to visit with the lady over lunch. From your description I sense she is trying to NOT cause any waves at these reunions. But I'm only guessing which usually, in my case, means I'm wrong. The other wrong advice I'm thinking of is, as moderator of these convention meetings you have latitude in discussing or making suggestions to attendees. Pay close attention because this is where it is easy to step past the boundaries of decorum. Addressing objects and displays is not that personal. Discussing one's dress codes is stepping into private personal space. If you can make a souffle and balance a plate on the end of a stick while carrying on a conversation this is what you are attempting. There is an old saying. "One uh oh erases all the atta boys." One person out of a five hundred understands the usage of the English language enough to speak to another person about something personal without making it personal. No that isn't a contradiction.
Everything you say MUST be on a positive note of encouragement and suggestions only. Generalize about clothes and not one damn thing about how she is dressed.
IE "I think women look nice in a dress. Of course there is nothing wrong with slacks and a blouse. I remember my mother always telling my dad when he complained about the cost of her dress. Clothes make the woman. Dad knew she was right and he wasn't really complaining."
If you broach the way she is dressed do NOT make it personal. Tread lightly obi wan konobi for you are in the most dangerous of all territories. Discussing how a woman looks in her clothes.
May the Force be with you.
always,
Barb
Oklahoma born and raised cowgirl
don't
don't get her on your wrong side angry at you, leave it alone and just shake your head and wonder why
HUGS
45 YR Anniversiry of leaving the ground schools
We had our 45th anniversey of leaving the compulsory school. For me that was the 5th year after my SRS. The person in the same position as you had been informed about my change as he had the address to me. I took it as a natural ting to go there in my new identity and I told him. At the meeting we all told about what had happened during all the years since we left the school. I waited till all had told their stories. Some had had jobs around the globe, but I just told that I might have done the longest travel. And so I could tell about the big change. I would ask the happy woman how she want to be treated, and perhaps mimic the way we handled it here in Sweden. When we met again at the 50 years jubilee, it was no problem at all. But it is all the question how well she feel in her new role. Wishing you a god meeting and hope all will end well.
Ginnie
GinnieG
Thoughts...
What's your motive? Would you be asking out of concern for her own comfort, or for the comfort of others? (*)
If you are concerned that she may be dressing in masculine clothing because because she does not feel comfortable or safe attending in feminine clothing (or something along those lines), then as an organizer of the convention, you might try contacting her beforehand to see if there are steps you could take to make it more welcoming for her. Don't mention her clothes unless she does, and don't be critical of whatever decision she is making. If she does have concerns, address them responsibly, and maybe that will allow her to feel relaxed enough to dress in more feminine clothes next year.
If you just want her to dress more femininely to make things "easier" for everyone else, then, no, don't say anything. If you two were close friends, then maybe you could discuss something like that, but coming from someone she sees once a year or so, no, it would be inappropriate.
(*-to clarify my tone, I'm not trying to be judgmental, I just want to encourage some self-reflection.)
being Transsexual isn't about ...
One of the hardest things for any woman is for them to be accepted for who they are in spite of their clothing or makeup or high pitched voice.
Being transsexual isn't about wearing this outfit or that. Haven't you heard? Women can wear men's clothing and still be a woman.
If you're going to say anything... start by confessing you think she should dress differently... I'm sure once you say out loud to her you will realise how awful you are being.
I have met many women some of whom were TSes who were motorcycle fanatics... they wore leathers; had tatts; wore big clunky shit kicking boots with no makeup and short hair and still were respected members of their own part of female society.
Being female is who we are at our core... even if we don't make even remotely attractive woman... even GG women are known to not want to be all frou frou and girly girl. Some of them are 'butch' and like it that way.
Sorry for my rant. You scratched a sore point.
In my deepest parts... I wish I were more girlygirl but I'm 6' 350lbs and can only dream of a "bikini bod" to quote a recent story. It pains me when attractive women don't embrace what I consider a tremendous advantage of their beauty and then I remember... maybe they are a butch and I should just keep my own counsel.
When I was dragged out of the closet kicking and screaming; clawing my way back across the floor screaming [Wizard of Oz voice] pay no attention to the girl in her mother's clothes... (figuratively speaking) My mother gave me 2 days of dressing anyway I wanted.
The only clothes I had were hers and she weighed in at about 300lbs and had 54G breasts... Imagine a 13y.o. boy with very very short hair wearing a hugely stuffed bra and having the time of her life doing it cuz it was just like mum. Then late on day 2 Mum started screaming at me... she stripped naked and with her giant boobs flopping around asked me. IS THIS WHAT YOU WANT?!! IS IT?!! ANSWER ME!!! I said no and hung my head... but inside where she couldn't hear... I was crying while blubbering "No! I want to be gorgeous and make men crawl to lick the sweat off my ____" *sigh* Sadly it never came to pass.
I spent the next 20 years being a tortured woman on the inside hiding from everyone... after 33 years [when I transitioned] it becomes a thing unto itself that gains mental mass... and the heavier it gets... the more densely compacted it becomes... it becomes very hard to change its course.
Its been almost 20 years since I transitioned [I'm in my 50s now]... I never had a moment's violence or even loud disapproval...but I still can't wear makeup. I feel ridiculous in a frock. My hair started falling out in my 20s and I cannot afford a custom size wig to fit my huge head so I'm almost bald up top. My diabetes prevents wearing heals. I am trapped into wearing masculine women's clothing and shoes... they don't make pretty things in my size. [that make me happy too]
Please just let her present what she wants you to see and accept her as a butch woman and if you're going to say anything to anyone... think twice and ask yourself... do you want her to change to femme clothes for you or for her.
Dayna.
A TG Point of View
With respect, I think you should not mention anything. To do so is inappropriate, patronising and condescending.
To put this in context, the way to test one’s behavior around transgendered is to behave as if the person is a regular woman or man. So the question to ask is - would one comment on the clothes selections of regular women in such a way? In such a situation, only a close personal or family friend could presume to say such things and expect to get away with it, because the person (and everyone else) can assume that it was a constructive comment. Any other person saying the same thing will just be dismissed out of hand as being mean, crude or rude, regardless of her intentions for saying it.
The big point here is that those who transitioned are striving to be viewed and treated as regular people - albeit regular people of the gender that they identify with. To point out that they failed is… counterproductive, so those of us with a burning need to help them must learn to sit on our good intentions.
Perhaps one could if one is also transgendered. IRL, a gay person can say rude things about another person’s gayness, but a non-gay person cannot presume to. An African-American can make fun of another African-American using the cliche racist jokes applied to African-Americans, and they'd probably laugh it away. But a white person cannot presume to.
Therefore, I have to ask: are you a close personal friend, or are you transgendered, too. If you are neither, then you have to sit on your good intentions, and don’t say anything at all.
In the larger context of trying to help her, is it not the better tactic to talk to someone else who is close to her, and confide in that person about one’s observation, and allow that person to be the one to tell her?
I am sure everyone has seen movies and TV shows where a good-intentioned busybody would give advice to, say, a gay person, or actually, anyone in/with a difficult social situation, and the person would resent the intrusion of the busybody, and then drama would ensue. We, the audience watching the movie or TV show, would understand the point of view of that gay person. Those of us who have a sympathetic soul would probably even feel his anger and frustration for the difficulties he faces as a gay person, and how the well-intentioned patronising advice he gets regularly would grate. It is in this context that your advice would be received.
I am not mad nor angry, nor am I trying to pick a fight. I apologise if you got that impression. I assure you i am not. Being transgendered myself, I just wanted to give my own two cents.
With respect and sincere apologies.
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Thank you for all the advice.
I will not be commenting her on the clothes. The reason I asked is because I thought that it should be brought up, but was unsure if it was a good idea. Whether she wears women's or men's clothes isn't the issue, I after all wear women's clothes most of the time, it was that the clothes were HIS old clothes, not HERS.
I will be asking her if anyone is harassing her, so I can kick the jerks out.
Again, thanks to everyone that answered.
They were always HER clothes...
...you just didn't know it at the time. ;-)
I see.
Hi.
The clarification is noted, but I think my point was missed...
Regardless of the particulars - whether it is HIS clothes she is wearing or HER clothes. Whatever the particulars - it doesn't matter. The point is not to comment on something very personal, unless one is within that person's inner circle, or if it's solicited. And her being transgendered, or if she is an MTF transitionee is beside the point - the observation or advise or comment is unsolicited, and therefore, it should not be given.
One should ignore or overlook or bleep over such a fashion faux pas, or whatever faux pas. DON'T even ask if anyone is harassing her as that implies that you think some people would find her mode of dress objectionable or whatever. That's as bad as directly questioning her choice of clothes in the first place.
What you CAN do is to kick any jerks you observe is harassing her, and to do that without even asking her. That is all that you can do about it unless she herself brings up the topic, and if she does, that changes the situation.
If you REALLY cannot leave it alone, perhaps you can make a general comment to EVERYONE and say that harassment - ANY harassment - during the conference will not be tolerated and leave it at that.
The key in understanding what to say to others, especially to people who have sensitivities (such as TG) is to put ourselves in their shoes. If I were that person, I can imagine how bad I would feel if someone were to call attention to my attire, and imply that people don't like it, especially if I were TG (which I am). Why would I want attention for something so potentially shaming and embarrassing as my attire? Even if that attention was well-meaning?
And, if her mode of dress is indeed so unusual, there must be a reason for it. I would assume that she is doing for some reason. Was that reason communicated? And if she is just simply unaware of how she is dressing, I don't think it is appropriate to bring it up. (see my previous point)
Again, this is just an opinion. I am not trying to be argumentative, and in case that's how I am coming off, I apologize in advance.
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