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Hi,
there's one thing I'm wondering about... I've been reading tg fiction for over ten years now, and during that time, I've come to realize that there seems to be some kind of unwritten tg rule: Never ever change the transformed person back into a man - at the end of the story, he, now *she*, will be stuck as a woman.
Really, in more than 90% (probably 95%) of all stories I've read, this happens - the transformed character stays a woman (sometimes because she likes her new life, but most of the times because of bad luck or other things).
Even when one is willingly trying out being a woman for a short time, with the intention of changing back after his experiences, (s)he somehow gets stuck anyway.
When I look at some popular story universes, I even notice that this "being stuck" is a detail apparently deliberately designed into these universes. For example:
Jennifer Adam's Altered Fates: Often, the medallion inexplicably vanishes or is given away and the main character, who mostly only wanted to change temporary, gets stuck as a woman
ElrodW's Bikini Beach: The life pass which often traps people in their new lives, although it happens quite more willingly in this universe
ElrodW's Morphic Adaptation Unit: The 4-day clause of course
Spell's R Us: The wizard who tricks his unsuspecting customers
On the other hand, story universes which don't offer a ready possibility of getting the main character stuck in her new don't seem to exist or are not popular. Cabinessence's Magic Depot comes to my mind. I always thought that this universe offers a lot of possibility for cool tg stories, but somehow, nobody seems to use it... ^^;
Since my preferences lie exactly in the "voluntary, temporary change without being stuck" category, I'd like to evaluate the reason for this... why is it so important for the main character to get stuck in her new form? Isn't this kind of cruel, a bad (in the sense of unhappy) ending...?
Are there more people like me who'd like to see voluntary, temporary changes without any catches at the end? :)
Write what you want to read
I think the answer is that the people who are writing most of the stories are writing what they want to read. If you'd like to see a different flavor, maybe you should try writing one. :)
Hugs,
Erin
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
That's exactly the reason why
That's exactly the reason why I started writing. ^^
Of course everybody writes what he or she likes. But I'd still like to hear the reasoning. ;)
My opinion
If you've read all of the Bikini Beach stories not all of the protagonists remain female. There are several where the individual changed back. In my stories only one person stayed female and that is of course Melody for which we know why.
Yeah, I know. But still a
Yeah, I know. But still a surprising amount of BB stories end with men staying women (or girls). As opposed to stories which end with the main character resuming his male life.
(Elrod's Nerd series was awesome in this regard, btw... the nerds using BB to become temporary, sexy girls for all kinds of things - great, loved it! ^^ )
I'm pretty sure the main
I'm pretty sure the main reason for this phenomenon is the psychology of the TG writers :) Many are either transsexual or transgendered themselves and write TG fiction as a sort of wish-fullfillment. So they really don't want to switch back, so their characters don't.
The next big reason is the plot device itself. If you write a forced change story and it was that easy to change back you'd cut a lot of tension and drama - which the story needs to work.
On the other hand I really get your point. I rather like some casual gender bending wish fullfillment myself. I rarely really stuck my protagonists. Basically if you have magic or technology to casually change a persons gender/sex in the first place, there is little reason why it can't be reversed. At least not without the protagonists being utterly uncreative.
One option for this is to leave the story open ended. The writer just doesn't say what happens after the end and leaves it to the readers imagination.
The other option would be to write real TG drama. I've seen the tendency in SF and fantasy TG stories that the sex change is really just a staging point for the story and within three chapters or so one can discern little difference between the protagonist and a girl that was born and raised that way.
My opinion on this is if you mainly write porn, comedy or adventure you usually don't need to stuck your protagonist. The gender change might as well be a temporary thing as part of a romance or challenge to the society or character. Not making the change permanent would add a lot more TG-element to the story than the usual one chapter sex and three chapter gender change that's currently dominating. (The Freeriders universe being an exception to the rule - even if the main protags stay female)
If you write TG drama having one's character stuck in the new gender is a staple trope and usually a major plotpoint. I can see why people usually chose to make it permanent, but most of the effect can also be achieved by making the change hard, or simply unavailable for a while.
Yeah, I agree with all your
Yeah, I agree with all your points. Still it puzzles me a bit.
I'd have thought as well that most stories are some kind of wish-fulfillment - but then why force the change upon unsuspecting characters at all, characters who are basically happy in their current bodies and are kicking and screaming all the way to womanhood? Imho, that doesn't make that much sense... ^^*
Although you're right that this is one of the best plot starters for tg drama stories. I have to concede that there are many excellent stories in this regard. Basically everything by The Professor I adore fanatically.
But what I'm observing is that there are quite a few comedy and/or adventure stories out there which are basically casual gender bending of the type I like, which are sometimes really not more than "I want to try it out"-porn - but even in those stories, most of them end with the character being stuck.
Most MAU stories end that way: The characters discover the MAU, have fun, have some transgender fun, have some kinky transgender fun and over the last three paragraphs the discover that they are stuck. Altered Fates stories are similar. And I'm really asking myself: Why? The stuck-part is not adding anything to the plot at that point anymore, no climax or drama...
That's why I wish to avoid the device altogether....
I haven't written much here, but any story I contribute in future will have the following:
1. A young protagonist (usually pre-puberty) who is already transgender, but closeted. The child wishes to change gender, but the usual obstacles stand in the way (parents, teachers, siblings, clergy, or the child's own fear/denial). As in the story I did post, in my story premises I like to throw in the additional obstacle of physical disability. "Write what you know," as the saying goes.
2. The change need not be a realistic one--it can be magical (I once wrote a SRU story in which a severely disabled man becomes an able-bodied toddler girl). I much prefer realistic transitions, as Katie Leone does, but whether magical or realistic, the change is always willing. My characters are never "stuck", because they end up where they wanted to be from the beginning, even if at first they couldn't admit it to themselves. We know the destination--the story is in the journey.
As with many other people here, I like stories that are pure wish fulfillment, and having a character go back to his/her original gender would actually be depressing for me. In my fantasies I imagine that I didn't have to wait until my thirties to transition. Unlike my real life, in my fantasy world I had the courage to start my transition sooner (much, MUCH sooner) and live the feminine childhood/adolescence that social pressure and my own fear prevented me from doing in reality. Any characters I create, therefore, are to some extent the me that ought to have been.
Livin' A Ragtime Life,
Rachel
As for the wish fulfillment:
As for the wish fulfillment: That I can readily understand, after all, it's my biggest wish as well to be able to transform my body (into a girl, to try it out, into animals, to try it out, etc.).
But then I'm wondering why authors are often choosing straight, heterosexual male characters who have never ever thought about becoming a woman for the role of the transformed. That's puzzling me, really. If it's wish-fulfillment, why not taking a closeted character, like you said? Instead they're forcing (in their story) a character who's quite happy with his current state of being into another body he's not happy with. In short, they are forcing upon their characters EXACTLY what they are feeling themselves. So it's not the wish they write about, but rather the pain of being in the wrong body. At least that's how I interpret it. That the story often ends with the transformed, former heterosexual man suddenly embracing his female life is then another way of saying "Look! Being a woman is ALWAYS better than being a man!!!".
(I hope I won't get slaughtered now for this... .___. )
See my reply below
It's again about removing a layer of guilt. I really don't think it is that hard to understand. Myself, I write lots of kinds of stories and in fact, TG stories have been the smaller proportion of things I have written.
Wanting to change and then change back if desired is easy to get a feel for. Wanting to read or write a story in which a normal man is transformed into a normal girl... why is that any harder? I think you are asking the wrong question of the wrong people. Why ask others why they like what they like... why not ask yourself why you aren't seeing the answers when they are presented to you?
Hugs,
Erin
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
Actually, I don't understand
Actually, I don't understand the guilt argument?
Why should someone feel guilty about changing into a girl? Or rather, where's the difference between
- Choosing to become a girl and stay a girl after changing or
- Having to become a girl and having to stay a girl (because of an accident, force, etc) after changing or being changed against his/her will
In an emotional sense which involves guilt...? The second option is probably easier to write about and read because there's only one way left to go for the character, but isn't the first option actually what transgendered people wish? But I still don't see at all where guilt comes into play here?
Guilt
The reader/writer may feel guilt at wanting to go against societal norms in desiring to be female. They feel shame/guilt in not wanting to be masculine. A forced dressing/gender change absolves the reader of this guilt and shame because the character was left with no choice. It wasn't their fault. Dressing as a woman then temporarily becomes "ok".
Melanie
Guilt-edged
Many transgender people are steeped in guilt. They are taught from a very early age to feel guilty about what they really want. It's the fuel to the angst of being tg. Getting past feeling guilty is what enables many people to transition. Guilt is also a byproduct of fear, the fear of being found out.
Forced or accidental change short circuits that guilt. It allows the writer and reader to enjoy the process without the feeling of guilt getting in the way. The ultimate version of this is the retroactive change that some people hate so much. But getting a second chance is exactly what some people fantasize about and wish to read about.
Besides all that, there's the kinky aspect for some people. Being stuck is more titillating than just experimenting. And there's some overlap between angst and kinkiness, but generally they are two different audiences, or at least two different sub-genres that it is possible to blend to appeal to both.
Of your two choices above, yes, a is really what many transgender people want. But that doesn't mean that b isn't what they want to read about.
Hugs,
Erin
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
Thanks for this explanation!
Thanks for this explanation! It actually answers most of my questions.
Believe it or not, I never even thought about the possibility that social customs and pressure could lead transgendered people to feel guilty about wanting to change. I always thought that there would be mostly fear of not being accepted involved... but guilt? That was new to me, really. ^^;
But now in hindsight, it really makes sense. Thank you again!
My own stories
The graphic novel Quillian - Teenager from Hell has a protagonist that switches between human male and demon female several times during the story, beginning female at the start of the story and ending male at the end. There is a hint of a possibility of being stuck. http://quillianonline.com/comic/quillian/
The third (unpublished) story in the Quillian series Like a Moth to a Flame will involve Q getting temporarily stuck in human female form through the actions of an angelic antagonist but ends with Q as a demonic male.
The fifth (unwritten) story will involve Q resolving the conflict between his/her multiple forms in My Favorite Damnation. Ending as yet undetermined but the essence is that he/she is not stuck.
My other incomplete graphic novel "Sam Valentine" involves a crossdressing female private detective who uses a male guise to give herself confidence in dealing with thugs and lowlifes. There are other gender-fluid characters in the Sam Valentine world including a couple of weight lifters nicknamed Barbelle and Kendra. :)
Hugs,
Erin
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
Forced or Accidental change...
Basically, having the protagonist not responsible for changing removes a layer of guilt. If the character later comes to enjoy the change, then that is character growth which is necessary in many plots. This actually has been discussed many times before, both here and elsewhere. :)
Hugs,
Erin
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
In my case
I typically try to avoid the "stuck" setup and instead go for the "choosing to remain/go female" type of situation. Yes, it is wish fulfillment -- which I agree is likely the main driving force behind every story where the character is "stuck" -- but it also allows me to work with a more malleable mental personality. Frankly, I write TG fiction because I want to write about GIRLS discovering who they are despite society's labeling of them. I could care less about stories where the character is a regular guy and through the process of the story maintains a male mindset, and I care just as little for stories where forced mental changes are part of the transition, both of which are often important elements of stories with "stuck" protagonists.
In conversations on this same topic before I've shared the belief that part of the attraction of "stuck" stories is the removal of the character's own input into how they present to the world. For many TG people one of the hardest elements to overcome in transitioning -- if they ever DO transition -- is the element of people accepting that someone who was once presenting as male is now presenting as female, or vice versa. As such, stories where the main character is given no choice on how to present themselves allows the reader or writer to avoid that particular mental issue by forcing the character into situations where they present as X gender regardless of their personal wishes. This also goes hand-in-hand with the common inclusion of a dom-sub dynamic in most stories: by taking the choices out of the hands of the writer/reader avatar, you remove that element of choice from the equation and make things, in a strange way, emotionally simpler.
I agree that there do need to be more stories where the change ISN'T permanent, but I do also have to say that many of the ones I've read that had that element weren't all that endearing, and usually felt like the ending was forced to conform to the change back rather than making that change work with the character's personality. Admittedly, I've only read a very small handful of stories that had a change back at all, and even LESS where they change back was permanent, but it often seems that, in their attempts to make their characters handle being female well, authors will abandon the male outlook entirely and simply write girls who happen to be male on either end of their feminine experience. This often makes returning to a male lifestyle less of a positive for the character and more of either a neutral event or a negative, and in either situation unless you're looking to write an unhappy ending why bother?
I've got stories I've started where the character returned to presenting as their original gender at the end, and I've never been able to finish them. *shrug*
Melanie E.
Different types of story
I'd question the basic premise of your question as I think it depends on the type of story you read and where you look for it. The TG story comes in many different flavours and most of the ones I regularly read on this site concern characters who are trans and actively choose to transition or welcome the magical or other form of change rather than the more old school forced fem of it being a punishment.
As others have said, if you want to read it... write it. :-)
"Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it."
Changing back may be insane
None of my stories have anyone reverting, and now that you ask the question, I'll say that reversion just never occurred to me. Like Erin says, if you want a story like that, then you should write it.
I "knew" at age 4 I was female, but the forces of red neck life, removed all my courage and I knew that to try to become a woman would be cataclysmic or worse. Then, for about 3 years, I was on very heavy doses of psych meds that removed all fear and inhibitions.
Lately I see my transition as a blessing in spite of the fact that I was in my 50's before I did it. I was always Gwen but did not know it. Recently, under tremendous pressure to attempt to reconcile with my family, I decided to revert to male again, and I must say that caused a tremendous uproar. Even those who view my transition as sinful do not support my return to being male. And I have seen some evidence that the suicide rate for reversion is very high; akin to murdering ones self.
Well, my family was not impressed and declined to contact me. It was settling because I now know that I have done my best, and now they can just bugger off as far as I am concerned.
Gwen
Switch-back
There was one other that you might've over-looked.
Not to devulge too much in case you haven't come across it, it was a short serial posted a couple of years back called "Something Feels Strange" by TiffQ. In it, a uniquely qualified teenage male was temporarily changed to a girl via some Genetic Manipulation in order to go undercover at a gov't installaton to help find and plug, a security leak - using a summer job as cover. Since (s)he was a high school senior, the length of this mission was set for either for the summer or whenever the leak was pluged ... whichever came first.
PB
I understand your point, but
I understand your point, but for me getting 'stuck' is what imaginative TG fiction is all about.
It's interesting to see what writers do when one of their male characters becomes female. It's a damn sight more interesting when that character realises there's no going back. That's when the real drama can begin.
Now we're getting closer.
Now we're getting closer. :)
Yes, that's really an interesting situation. There are several stories I highly, highly recommend which deal with such situations (many by The Professor, by Danielle_J and by Ellie Dauber) and it really is interesting to read how people adapt to the changed circumstances.
But in those cases, the 'stuck' theme is actually a central plot point and occurs at the beginning. I was rather inquiring about many stories (mainly short to medium sized ones) where the transformed character still has the belief (or hope) that (s)he can be changed back - but then the story's _end_ consists of the character becoming stuck. At that point, the stuck theme isn't advancing anything anymore. There can't be any drama result out of this because the story's finished.
In a way, to me that's like an action movie where the hero keeps mowing through masses of enemies, at the end confronts the evil crime lord holding his daughter holding hostage and which he's tried to free the whole length of the movie - and at minute 119 of the 120 minutes movie, the crime lord pushes the daughter over the railing to her death. Um, what?
No
No, it simply is NOT like your analogy at all. In fact your analogy is like saying a comb is like a Caterpillar tractor. Um, what?
Hugs,
Erin
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
My analogy was supposed to
My analogy was supposed to say that there are a lot of stories where the possibility of changing back is being dangled in front of the transformed main character like some kind of bait.
For example Altered Fates or MAU stories where a 'friend' forces another friend to change into a woman to fulfill some kind of task. The story ends with the changed person fulfilling the task and discovering that the machine stopped working or the medallion is gone. It's like all the character has worked for in the story is snatched away in the final paragraph, ending with something like "Okay, you hate it, but you have to stay a girl, whether you want it or not. Period."
I don't understand where the much cited wish-fulfillment comes into play here. After all, it's an ending with forcing the main character into a body which he doesn't belong into, at least to him at the point of the conclusion of the story. For wish fulfillment, I'd have expected the story to end with the character willingly deciding that being a woman is better than being a guy and deciding to stay one therefore (such stories exists as well, but somehow they are far and few...).
Bait and Switch
The kind of tactic you describe is called, "dramatic tension." It's not so much a part of the genre as just one more plot device.
Getting your wish without feeling guilty about it -- I keep saying this and saying it and you keep saying you don't get it. It is beginning to feel like you are deliberately trying not to get it because you keep coming up with objections that it can't be what I and others are saying. What is the real problem?
Are you afraid you will feel guilty if you actually understand our explanations? :)
Hugs,
Erin
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
I really didn't get the
I really didn't get the guilty argument. ^^*
This wasn't a deliberate act on my part, I swear. But thanks to your explanation above I got it. Thanks for that!
Really, it never occurred to me before that transgendered people could feel "guilty" for trying to become who they really are. I rather thought their would be a lot of fear of not being accepted involved, but I genuinely never thought about guilt.
"Shame" might be a better word....
"Guilt" implies one's conscience is bothered by the idea of becoming female, but for a good many of us, such feelings are humiliating because of the social expectations placed on males. When I was growing up, I'd see "sissy" characters on television (usually the ones that Charles Nelson Reilly played) and noticed that such characters were invariably sniveling cowards. For a long time, I interpreted any effeminacy on my part as a sign of a similar weakness, and became paranoid, even to the point of monitoring my hand gestures.
But if a male-to-female transgender person who's ashamed about it were to be forced into becoming female, they could maintain the fiction of being just a normal guy while indulging their secret desires at the same time. "Hey folks, I'm still a dude! Don't get the idea I'm enjoying any of this!" Their ego is spared, and they wouldn't have to admit to any "weakness."
That doesn't happen in reality, so they like to read stories in which that happens.
One thing I didn't see mentioned in this discussion, by the way, is that there's a strong S & M element to forced-feminization fiction. Some male to females, and even a few guys who'd never consider transitioning, are turned on by that very humiliation.
Livin' A Ragtime Life,
Rachel
Short story syndrome...
I agree what you're saying here does happen (works towards reverting and having the possibility removed at the 11th hour), and while the total numbers may be significant, as a percentage it's only in a small minority of stories, generally shorter ones.
This actually makes some sense to me as it's traditional for short stories to end with an ironic twist.
I'm totally with Erin on the guilt aspect though. When one has been beaten by one's parents and handed over to a priest to address one's "wicked ways" and "save my soul from eternal damnation" with borderline sexual assault, one's wish fulfillment is likely to revolve wanting to live as one's true self. Given completely justifiable fear of reaction from those around you, having a way to protect yourself by being able to honestly say "it's not my fault I'm stuck this way" becomes critical to the wish fulfillment.
Okay, just a short answer to
Okay, just a short answer to all the people telling me that "if I want to read such a story, I should write it" - yes, that's exactly what I'm doing. :p
But since most of my stories rather feature general tg (animal, object, etc.) instead of clear and single tg changes, I'm mainly posting them at my deviantart account. What I've posted here is only a fraction of my stuff.
And this question wasn't intended as an attack on all writers who write 'stuck' stories - I was simply curious as to why this theme is so incredibly popular and why the 'temporary' change is (in relative terms of stories with temporary changes versus stories where the character becomes stuck) so sparsely used. :)
But so far, great discussion. You're awesome, folks, keep going! :)
I've Always Liked This Quote:
As to transforming the sex of a character perfectly happy the way she/he is...
>> "Being a girl is wonderful and to torture someone into that would be like the exact opposite of what it's like. I don’t know how anyone could act that way." College Girl - poetheather <<
Hugs and Bright Blessings,
Renee
NEVER CHANGE BACK THE TRANSFORMED ?????
Okay... I've noted that tendency here myself and as a result did not post a story I completed in 2012 which deals with exactly that; albeit in a round-a-bout and somewhat... different respect. It is however M to F to M. It's just the magic involved that gets to be a little... odd???
SO! This brings up a question.
WHAT DO THE READERS OUT THERE THINK about such a story plot? I know... if the story is free then people will read it BUT...
The true question is WHY? What do readers here expect to get out of a story? Self-gratification of a sort? Hope for the future? WHAT?
I know many would read the story, but would it be enjoyable and something you readers would come back to read again in the future?
It feels to me to be a niche of sorts. What do you think? Inquiring minds (or at least my own) want to know.
Anesidora
Now... having spent entirely too much time up this night (it's 1 AM) I need to get off to sleep since my driver will be coming for me at six.
C U God Bless you all.
I think it's mostly a sign of
I think it's mostly a sign of the times. There used to be a bunch of stories that fits more into crossdresser than transgendered category. Mostly guys who were curious about the other side of life, some who lost a bet or where punished by their wifes. In the end some would declare to do it again, others were just glad for the experience and insights that gave them, but didn't want to repeat it.
Temporary change was a popular genre 5-10 years ago. Few of those stories seem to be around these days. I think most of them I read on Chrystal's Storysite.
Being stuck
I have written one or two stories where the protagonist returns to male. I try to avoid forced femme stories as they tend to devolve into fetish stories. Not judging, just not my cup of tea. Finding only fetish themed TG stories is what prompted me to start writing.
Except for when there's some accident or event, my characters usually walk in with their eyes open or they were just stupid like in "Miss Spelled". Getting stuck in a different gender/body of course adds conflict. Without conflict, the character doesn't move emotionally or physiologically. In that case you have a scene and not a story. Even if he returns to being male, he still has to change in some way or again, there's no story. It was harder for me to write about a transwoman in transition than a straight guy who suddenly finds himself female. How he handles his inner conflict and ultimate acceptance is where you get your story.
I generally dislike stories where some random schmuck gets targeted to become some slime ball's gorgeous sex slave. But there are a lot of stories like that.
But to answer the question on why (for me at least) the hero remains female, is why would you choose to be male? But, that's just me.
Melanie
Um, yeah. But my question was
Um, yeah. But my question was why it's so often forced.
In many, many stories the character doesn't even have the possibility to choose in the end. (S)he simply gets stuck. Whether (s)he wants it or not. And the prospect of staying female for the rest of their lives of course pushes them into exactly the opposite corner then (at least at that part of the story) ("What? I have to stay a woman forever? Nooooooooo! (Never mind that I had fun being one)")
See my other comment
If its forced, then it's not your fault.
Lots of reasons
In a lot of cases I think the author's working something out, which results in either a permanent transformation for a closeted TG (who may be in denial) or the stuck theme. I know the stuck theme is what's always turned my crank, either that or the rainbow at the end of the path theme. Neither of them includes the idea of reverting and having that work out well for the character.
I've currently got a story in development limbo where one of the main character's friends switches back and forth between male and female roles every three to five days. No magic, just something in zir psych that the shrinks can't get to; drugs don't work either. Ze switches when the frustration level get to the punching someone out - hair pulling stage. The thing is, ze's still stuck - the switch is irregular enough that ze doesn't know whether ze'll be going to a dance with zir girlfriend as a boy or a girl. Unsticking would require making a decision about which way to go and learning to live comfortably with it.
So many comments I could reply to
So I will write a fresh one. Erin has covered most of the argument here, especially about the removal of guilt/tension/fear in forced change stories. We also have forced-fem stories, against which I wrote "Sweat and Tears"
In essence, those of us who move from one gender role to another go through a lot of shit. It could be the pain of top-lip electrolysis, it could be the loss of friends, family, or employment. It requires a huge commitment. Some people write wish-fulfilment stories, and some offer 'magic transform' ones. Others are 'forced'. In both cases the subject needs no courage, and that is the attraction.
The 'no way back' thing? I can only speak for myself. I am a male to female transsexual. There is absolutely no way I would return to the foreign country that is masculinity. My own stories reflect that. But I steer clear of fantasy.
I love these discussions
There is so much to digest in this conversation I will need a day to sort it all out.
But I also bring away support for several story lines, Why not a person who can change at will or need to be who they need to be for a given situation. That would give me a real stretch keeping the two mind sets clearly demarcated.
For my self to be forced backwards would be the end of me I think that would make me totally crazy.
Also I agree with Erin the guilt of even wanting to be the lesser gender to give up the {BS}male superiority to become a women. There is an been six millennium [6000 ] years possibly longer of intense cultural regimentation to assure men get it all. It is by hind sight we can see just how silly this time period has been.
Misha Nova
With those with open eyes the world reads like a book
actually.... in one of mine...
Gruesome Tuesday.... when father and daughter swap places, also in time.... in the end both return to being themselves again, much the richer for the experience.
Tanya
There's no such thing as bad weather, just the wrong clothes!
... and three of mine
In the Too Many Marilyns chapters of Groans from Timbuctoo, a number of people (men and women) are changed into duplicates of Marilyn Monroe, and all are changed back — some willingly, some not. There are some other stories in that set in which people change gender and back again.
In Marcie and the Amazons, the main character has an extended dream/hallucination in which she lives as a boy again,
and Short Chapters ends with the main character putting away his girl self.
Also, there is a big, fat, wonderful book called Steel Beach by John Varley, in which the protagonist changes gender several times, always by choice.
John Varley
The 'Ophiuchi Hotline' universe has a whole raft of stories in which the characters can have a new body cloned as male or female and then upload their memories from their securely-stored 'back-up tape'.
We won't ask how a cloned body avoids following DNA sex codes, but it's a nice thought. The thing about Varley's stories (which I still enjoy) is that he seems to follow a John Money approach to gender, in that none of his characters are truly gendered. One example is 'The Phantom of the Kansas' (massive spoiler below; do not read it if you haven't read the story and intend to)
The problem with this floating gender business is that it is simply not true, in my experience as well as in that of others, and does indeed seem influenced by Money's lies. There is also more than a hint in Varley's works that sexuality is similarly fluid.
*****MASSIVE SPOILER ALERT*****
In the story I mention, the heroine keeps getting murdered. She is repeatedly rebooted, but naturally her 'back-up' stops well before her memories of the murder. It turns out that, for complicated reasons, a clone of her was made illegally, fitted with her previously-stolen-from-safe-deposit memories and then released. There can only be one legal avatar of a person at one time, so if caught the clone would be euthanized. Her genetics set her as male by default, so the clone is male. It is the clone that has been killing her. When, eventually, they get to talk they not only reach an understanding but fall in love.
Johhn Varley
I never really thought of those stories as tg so much as post-gender. By which I mean 'what does society look like when the sex of your physical body is entirely a matter of choice'. Iain M Banks raises some similar questions in his 'Culture' books. For both these authors I think their assumption is that many people will experiment but most will stick with a single gender after a while.
Getting back to the original question... isn't that the experience and the fear of most of us? Once you choose to make a definitive move to change gender you have to burn so many bridges that there is no way to go back?
It was for me....
A couple of years ago, when I going through long periods of severe self-doubt, I had a dread fear of the possibility of going back, because I'd lived as a woman for so long that going back would destroy the life I had built. And once I went back, re-transitioning would not be a possibility (so I believed).
But because my background doesn't fit the typical TG narrative (I didn't declare myself a girl when I was young), I thought I would be obligated to go back to being male because I was a "fraud." That I'd have to go back for the "good of the TG community", in other words. Therefore, I went into a downward spiral of depression, where I went through an endless cycle of "You must de-transition! But I can't de-transition! But you must...."
Counseling has helped me realize that my feelings weren't so much regret at having transitioned as self-loathing, because I wasn't a "typical" transwoman.
Livin' A Ragtime Life,
Rachel
In the nicest possible way---rubbish!
There is a lot of rot spoken about what makes a 'real' transperson, and there is overall a very low signal-to-noise ratio. I have spent time trying to write as many different transition experiences as I can, and as far as I am concerned there is no 'typical' anywhere.
There are people who assume they are one sex till they are shown they are the wrong one at a very early age.
There are people who know they are the wrong sex as soon as they are shown there is a difference. (Sarah, in Cold Feet and Annie in the Ride books)
There are people who don't manage to work out what the problem is until something sparks a revelation (Steph in Something to Declare)
There are people who walk away from it and try to be ultra-cisgendered (Melanie in Uniforms)
There are some who transition as early as they can (Sarah again; Sophie in Cider))
There are some who try once and give up (Annie again)
There are some who never, ever try until life has done the complete dirty on them (Alice in Cold Feet; Jill in Too Little, Too Late?)
There are some who go through life unable to do anything at all, or beyond making a declaration to a close friend. We have people here like that.
There is NO typical: there is just what some people would like to use to compartmentalise us, to make us fit their own assumptions. You are your own person, with your own path.
The Half Lilin
My stories, The Half-Lilin and Half-Lilin: By the Light of the Moon both had its protagonist Patrick Willows switching back to human male form from his demon female form at the end of the stories. Readers had complained that the staying female ending was better than switching back to male form, but, it was meant as continuation. It will be many stories in the future before Patrick Willows will be stuck with being a demon female.
However, I won't ask you to read the first Half-Lilin. I intend to rewrite it, since that story was the first one I wrote when I started writing again. So it was a bad attempt of a novice writer. I'm almost always ashamed at how I wrote it, but I never removed it as the Half-Lilin: By the Light of the Moon needs its origins.
My other stories aren't finished yet, so I can't say if my characters will decide to stay in their transformed form or revert to their original form. Although the general outline is already written, reader feedbacks heavily factor in getting a popular ending.
It depends
Two of my stories have someone that changes back because being a woman wasn't for them and the other was for love. The first is Runway and the second Little Men Big Women. I think changes are easier with magic stories, whereas mine are more real life. Give them a read, Arecee
You mentioned Magic Depot
It's not directly pertinent to the rest of the discussion, but I've just a few minutes ago posted a Magic Depot story: Magic Depot Changed My Life. You're right that this 'Universe' seemed to have fallen into disuse. When I posted this story on Fictionmania in March, it was the first time that category had been used for eight years. You're also right that this universe offers a simple basis for voluntary, non-permanent change.
In my story, although the main character has undergone a permanent, voluntary transformation to become a woman, it's clear that the narrator has taken a very temporary change, though this is not emphasised.
I agree that this universe offers many interesting possibilities, and it's a shame that it's not been used more. I hope other authors might pick it up again.
kandijayne
Returning as male
If you don't mind a blatant self promotion, three examples from me where the male protagonist isn't forced to remain female are Kajira's Dance, The Unwilling Princess, and The Princess of Q'Fahr. In these stories, the protagonist is forced into a female role, but return from their adventure as male. Well, I guess I cheat in Kajira's Dance because there's no physical change.
So there's no hard & fast rule you're forced to stay female.
Melanie
Oh, I forgot about Another Martian Princess. The hero returns to being male in that one too.
why not I plan on doing it
Its been done in other stories too so I dont know why. Of course if the changes is forced and traumatic the character cant be the same. But he can change himself back to a man. Just, probably a very troubled and traumatized man. Maybe even feminine.
Conflict as plot driver, and some counter-examples
All stories are based on some kind of conflict, and in most TG stories the change of sex and/or gender is not just character background, but the main or one of the main sources of conflict. And if it involves a main character who isn't transgendered to begin with, a permanent change tends to produce more conflict than a temporary change.
That said, I prefer stories where the character figures out they're stuck early in the story, and the rest of the story is about them dealing with the repercussions of that. (E.g., Morpheus's Twisted or Burke's Virus series, or various stories where someone transforms as part of manifesting superpowers, etc.) Stories where they think they're fine and it will be easy to change back and then, wham, diabolus ex machina, the magic or sufficiently advanced technology is used up or lost -- that's a way overused trope. Maybe it used to be an effective twist ending, but not anymore. But don't throw out the "stuck" trope entirely; it has it uses, as long as it's not a lazy twist ending.
Several of my stories end with the characters changing back, or at least becoming male again if not in their exact original body, and I'll name them though this involves spoilers: "From Nowhere" (on Shifti and FM), "The Manumission Game" (here), "Wentworth and the Mind-body Problem" (forthcoming). Some others involve voluntary transformations, or people transformed unwillingly or under protest who get to like it and decide not to change back (various characters in "Wine Can't be Pressed Into Grapes", "When Wasps Make Honey", "A Notional Treason", and "Not Beyond Conjecture"). Also, my Travel Agency stories "Scouts" (here and at FM) and "The Family that Plays Together" (forthcoming), like some of Morpheus' original Travel Agency stories, end up with the characters back in their own bodies again. I think the only one I've written that uses the "stuck" trope in anything like the form you describe is "Rodric and Melisande", and even there, the transformed character finds out she *could* change back, but the price of such magic would be higher than she's willing to pay.
One of my favorite of Morpheus' short stories (I generally prefer his novels and novellas) is an SRU story whose title escapes me; the main character, a prepubescent boy if I recall correctly, actually *returns the magic to the Wizard for a refund*, saying he's not mature enough to handle it, and the wizard agrees and gives him his money back! (The boy and his friend had already changed back into boys by that point, IIRC.) This subversion is doubly effective because we've learned to associate the SRU setting with the "stuck" trope.
Another good subversion of the trope is Bek D. Corbin's "Hellcats" (at Sapphire's Place), where a closeted transsexual figures out a way to get magically transformed into a woman and make it look like an accident. Oh poor me, stuck as a girl!
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Agreed!
Just yesterday I wrote a blog post about this subject. I think having a "permanent" transformation is generally preferred for three reasons:
1. Most readers of TG fiction (or of most other transformation genres) don't especially like the aesthetics of reading about a transformation in reverse.
2. Having a transformation be permanent gives it more tension when it's occurring. Whether the character knows it or just the reader, the tension is there all the same.
3. The transformation isn't meant to be just a fun weekend, it's supposed to be a gateway to a new life. And that isn't the case if the old life still exists.
Visit My Transformations for more of my stories.