Today I spoke up on the lack of recognition of FtMs within this community. In response I was told that my concerns were silly, and I also witnessed a rather sexist remark. I found this to be insulting and hurtful, both personally AND impersonally.
I believed that this community was intended as a place for ALL people with some form of gender dysphoria.
Today I see one that caters exclusively to MtFs, and permits sexist remarks towards men.
The location of my original post
I invite everyone -members and admins- who is reading this to have a look at my post (you can't miss it) and the responses it received, and tell me what you think/know. I will hear opinions, although FACTS are preferable. Please do NOT overlook the fact that I remembered to compliment the author, and did NOT suggest that their work be REPLACED with my proposal. Please also note that the second line of the second paragraph of THIS blog is NOT directed at the author of the original work.
...
So is this place what I thought it was, or is it the latter type? If it is the latter, I shall have to leave. I'm not feminine enough to be part of such a group. Also I cannot bear to witness such attacks on my allies, the good men.
Please be assured, I accept the fact that some of the ladies in this community have been abused by men. I would, however, like to remind everyone of a couple of FACTS.
There are many good men in this world who aren't abusists/rapists.
There are many good men in this world who do not think of women merely as a means of getting some nookie.
Now ladies, if this community really is what I thought it was, please at least make a distinction between good men and bad men. If you do, that's great. Keep it up, and please be very careful about making generalized sexist remarks in jest.
UPDATE: I got it wrong in certain areas. See my next blog for clarification.
Comments
I'm not sure if people edited
I'm not sure if people edited their responses after you posted this, or if I'm reading the thread wrong. I didn't see any responses to your comment, though the person right below you had basically the same comment you did, and got a few responses. So if comments were deleted, it's entirely possible I'm missing whatever offended you.
Still, what was up there when I looked did not seem too offensive to me. It trafficked in stereotypes, to be sure, but it was a silly song and a silly thread. We find humor in making fun of ourselves quite often. Witness Woody Allen's huge and generally funny collection of Jewish humor for an example (I pick Woody Allen because I like him, but this is true of a rather large number of Jewish comedians.) I assume the person making the joke about men buying gifts and wanting sex was a man, but true or not, it plays into a common enough thread in jokes. Sexist? Well, to a degree, yes, but to a degree that I at least find acceptable when done in jest.
For what it's worth, I consider the comment to be slightly funnier if I assume the poster is a man...
Titania
Lord, what fools these mortals be!
Having two brothers...
...as well as several precious brothers-in-law and nephews and more than a few cousins who are distinctly male, I know that there are a LOT of good men out there, and even here, of course. (Most, in fact) I hope that I have struck a fair balance between good and 'bad' men in my stories. And I am happy to be held accountable if I haven't; both as a writer and more importantly as a human being.
I shudder at broad generalizations and stereotypes. I've been on the receiving end of not being 'enough' TG, as well as other occasional statements regarding things in which I believe; to the point of feeling hurt and excluded. Let me know if I do that, okay?
Signed... Andrea the Non-traditional transgendered Christian Libertarian Pan-Operative (However it all pans out) woman.
Love, Andrea Lena
All I can say
...is that I agree with most of that. I would edit it, slightly, in saying that MOST men in this world are good. In my first work here, 'Something to Declare', I introduced a F2M whose story I revisited in 'Home Match', and my stories are filled with decent folk of all genders. People are people, and good folk are good folk.
In balance to that, some of my worst villains are female (Flogger Cunningham and Charity Pickstock*), so I am an equal opportuities old trout.
*I won't ask a question, but answer it myself. Yes, it is possible to feel soiled by creating a character.
I'm guessing the replies have been removed
After your post is the Princess Chelsea post in with the same question.
I've noticed in the past a general slight towards men on the site, but what can you do? The ideal of most users is femininity. I personally haven't noticed the bias as much in recent months or I've become immune to it. Aside from being male myself, and having worked through whatever gender issues I may have had it bothered me at times that no matter the situation, people always would root for the protagonist to end up female. That's not ALWAYS the proper/correct ending. If the protagonist is an ordinary non transgendered male who is forced by other(s) or magic to be female, I'd root for him to get his life back. Obviously that's not always going to be the case, and in some stories you know the change is permanent if there was surgery done, or the magic was set up as a one-way deal like in a SRU story.
The other thing that has bothered me over the years, is that people seem to forget the cross-dressers are MEN. They live their lives as men. They aren't going to become women, and don't want to. They recognize their inner woman and let her out as a form of release/relief. They enjoy being feminine, and enjoy being men the rest of the time.
I should clarify, what I am talking about above is in comments on stories and NOT THE STORIES THEMSELVES. One story in particular bugged me in this way that I recall. It was "Something Feels Strange" by TiffQ. Here we had a perfectly normal 16 year old boy (I think 16). He agrees to be changed into a girl for the summer to help find a traitor where his parents work. The change to girlhood was complete including mentally (female brain). Now he was to be a girl for a couple of months. There were comments saying he should REMAIN a girl forever afterwards. Like his 16 years of life prior didn't matter. That his life prior was easily discarded and his links to his family (he was altered genetically). HIS hopes and dreams and the girl he loved wouldn't matter. I really liked that story and hated the comments. Please understand, EVERYONE is entitled to his/her opinion and I have no issue with people expressing theirs. I approach a story by investing in the main protagonist and what's in their best interest. Not if/how he becomes a girl.
I would also point out that WOMEN are very often portrayed as EVIL, MANIPULATING, UNLOVING, SHREWS...recurring theme is the cuckolding bitch who emascualates her husband so she doesn't feel guilty about cheating on him (why not just divorce??). So there often is an anti woman bias as well.
{{Hugs}}
Frank
Lots of debate
That story engendered lots of heated comments. I was one of those who liked the story, said so, I gave it kudos (or whatever was in existance back then), but was critical of both his parents, his sister and his girlfriend for allowing him to be changed and supporting what was occurring. I was somewhat critical of those who felt that he should remain a female at the end. If I remember correctly at the end, he was without his former girlfriend and other people had abandonded him. He turned out the looser in the story.
Rami
RAMI
The debate of men
What we all must realize is that firstly, these are stories. They did not happen next door, nor did did they hit the local news. However, due to the nature of who the people are that are here and do read the material on this site, stories that contain plot elements such as what Frank described, get taken beyond the scope of a story and get treated by the reader as if it had just happened. I do not agree that it should happen that way, just noting and relaying I do see it happen here daily. But that is because the people who are here all have something wrong within them, whether it is injustice, stress, hiding, or the other pressures of being the TG, gay, bi, intersex, lesbian thing. And that is a whole lot of pressure on anyone.
Secondly, I have also observed a much smaller collection of these people here who try to push agendas, albeit subtlely, whom are not affliated with the ones running this site. It is the other people, including authors and readers, small cliques of friends and one or two from each one constantly come out whenever a certain type of story pops up that touches their buttons. And then there are solo ones; ones pushing their views to change this site. To someone like myself trying to understand the entire issue of just what being TG, gay, bi, lesbian, and intersex is, so that I can be a better friend here in real life to a friend of mine who had opened up to me, I can see there is a lot more to this than just the simple waking up one day and saying "I have to be myself."
I do personally know one admin person here who has been abused by men, declared she hated men, and had made that issue plain in comments long ago that I read when I was directed to them, and at the very same time, I do not see this now in all the recent comments by this person. I will not judge this person because I do not have the right to do so. My view on this person, is that they may have either found peace within themself or discovered something else. But I do not believe that the hatred of men this person at one time wrote of still exists. I see a remarked change in their demeanor.
Thirdly, and this is to you Extravagance, if you believe in your cause, stay. Your presence here is needed. If you leave, who here will take up your flag and stand for what you believe in? I implore you to stay and be a part of this place and make known your love for your ideals. Everyone, including the ones whom you like and that know nothing of this site, will be hurt by the vacuum left from your leaving.
Fourthly, from what I have seen, this is not just a site for writing. This site is a place of refuge from real life. It is also a place where the hurt have come to heal. It doesn't take an outsider like myself to see this. It is absolutely wonderful that a place such as this operates and can help so many.
I do lurk here. I am trying to discover more about my friend. But there is one truth: Not all men nor all women can be lumped into the same category. For any one generalization, you will find a huge lump that defy that description. And really, the one making that generalization could not possibly have interviewed and assessed each person that they are declaring to be the way that they think.
And as a last thought, I see a lot of people here that do snipe at each other. Wouldn't it be more exciting and productive to go past the pettiness of hurting each other and find ways to support and love one another? At times I can see this whole site as being a critical recovery room and everyone, being the patients in gurnies, rolling their gurnies and banging each other up in a free for all derby.
There are good men and women out here. You just have to find them.
I thank you for your patience in reading this little ramble from me.
~val
I believe
The reason behind that is most of the stories these people here read they use as projections of their own desires of what they wish was done to them. It's unfortunate the way they heal also tends to drive away the men (I mean like seriously? The world would SUCK without you awesome guys :D)
However, if I ever write I can promise my male chars that are happy being male will do every single thing they can to return to being who they were, even if they fail, they still at the very least will try.
I'm not a fan of someone who's obviously male and obviously happy as a male all of a sudden becoming a girly girl just because he was magickally or surgically changed... I personally find that a load of BS. But to each their own I suppose.
I know who I am, I am me, and I like me ^^
Transgender, Gamer, Little, Princess, Therian and proud :D
You're absolutely right, of course....
First, as to trashing men, I for one don't use this place as a forum for that. I've been treated pretty shabbily by some men, but I do realize there are some good, sweet guys out there. In fact, I'd love to meet some....=)
Transgender fiction is overwhelmingly MtF, I think, because the FtMs generally just want to blend in and get on with their lives. Few of them want to associate themselves with the TG world in any way. They're much less likely, therefore, to frequent a site like this, even anonymously. And since the male gender is something the MtFs want to distance themselves from, they're not likely to write about an FtM transformation. Their reluctance is not necessarily based on a hatred of men, though I have seen that on other sites.
Livin' A Ragtime Life,
Rachel
I can definitely understand
I can definitely understand why you're pissed off. When I started reading TG fiction thankfully I started with Whateley, yet afterwards I got the feeling as if there was an unofficial fourth law of TG fiction aka "There has to be rape in it". I have somewhat a tolerance for female power fantasies, but I can't stop myself from commenting, once it gets too ridiculous. It was maybe a century ago that the mainstream opinion was "with women in power we'd still live in stone age". They had at least some historical proof beyond ideology.
Thankfully the all-men suck attitude is only shared by a minority of the authors... I guess I can understand that some people have made bad experiences with a gender, but that doesn't mean one should generalize. That's pure sexism.
I guess one can only tell them that they're writing BS. Anyway, thank you for writing this issue in a blog,
Beyogi
Extravagance, thank you for your blog.
Just as Grandma in Bikini Beach has learned that there are gentlemen out there who treat women with respect, there are also transmen.
May Your Light Forever Shine
I maybe missing something
I maybe missing something. Some comments may have been removed. But I do not see the problem that you do. Parody brings out silly (stupid) responses.
As for you suggestion to have a song for FtM similar to KT's 12 nights of Christmas for MtF, I can only suggest that you write it or perhaps ask someone here who has the ability to do so to write one for you. I do not think it woulod be rejected. Perhaps the only problem is that it would not be appreciated.
Having read fiction of the nature posted here on several sites over a number of years I have come across a very limited amount of FtM stories. Perhaps there are specialized sites for such literature, or perhaps the need to write such stories by members of the FtM community is more limited.
As for this being an anti-male site, I don't see it. There are positive male characters who are sympathetic to ther MtF character in their lives as there are evil females who lurk in these stories. Most hardcore Femdom stories, have at least one bitch in a major role.
Since no one has ever taken a census that I know of, it would not surprise me that if one was conducted a large percentage of the readers/contributors are males who are not actively TS?TG/Crossdresser for whatever that definition means.
Rami
RAMI
I'm writing about a good man right now
the main character in "Jake goes for help" is a good man who has to deal with the fallout of being sexually assaulted.
I have personally met a few
I have personally met a few FtM's and like genetic men there are a range of behaviors. I can honestly say that there are great guys among them and some of the more libidinous types. lol. Unfortunately they are more silent than us girls so they tend to blend in the background, but they do have it as bad as we do. I also dated one and know that they can be great guys to be with and do understand the whole gender issue problem. The guy I dated even pointed to an example of where my mother was teaching me female behaviors. lol. I think I see the comment that got to you, it was the one about guys wanting one gift -- sex. I took that as a joke but can see where it can be taken as guy bashing.
Not only ARE there good men,
there are a hell of a lot of them. Most of the guys I called friends when I began my transition, stuck by me and are still friends.
Additionally I have met several transmen and they are just as mixed a bag as genetic males are. One of the best I met was Blake Alford, who was a co-host of the 2009 Southern Comfort Convention.
Granted, transmen are a smaller part of the TG community than are the transwomen, but they are just as much a part of it.
I think the reason so many men are put down in so many stories, is the hatred/disgust/disatisfaction most of the authors (who are, in the majority, m-f) feel, regarding their own male selves.
Also granted is the simple fact that there are a lot of dishonest, feral males out there who buy into the myth of "macho." There are, unfortunately just as many women out there who buy into the "bitch" mythos so, all in all, it sort of balances out.
There are good and bad in each gender, TG or not. The trick is to be selective and aware and do one's best to stay away from those who fit the stereotype.
Personally, I don't care for the f-m stories, but that's just me. As a m-f, I can't imagine anyone wanting or needing to give up being female. I've tried my best to leave that guy I was born as, behind me as I'm certain all m-f's have done, so naturally, I want to read about guys becoming girls, but only the willing ones or the ones it happens to accidentally... not the ones forced into it.
There's room for everyone in a Big Closet, and that's something we all have to remember.
huggles and Happy Holidays,
Catherine Linda Michel
As a T-woman, I do have a Y chromosome... it's just in cursive, pink script.
I'm a good man
I describe myself as a feminine man. There's nothing wrong with my male hormone production and when the need arises, my wife comments, "You're such a man," referring to my male needs. She jokes about me being "an animal." In that context, sexist as it may be, she's right. I do have animal (read physical) needs. That said, I have enough (nearly fifty percent) feminine qualities that I can appreciate what a woman needs in a relationship with a man.
Our relationship is loving, romantic and sensual. We've been married for 45 years and it just gets better and better as the years go by. The words, "I love you," are heard often in our house more than once a day, by both of us.
As an MtoF transgendered individual and a keen observer of women in general, I've noticed that a lot of what we MtoFs say the attributes of women are, are actually pretty much stereotypes and often have little to do with reality. We tend to want to make women all girly-girls and ultra-feminine. Actually, most women I know who are self-described as being "girly-girls" don't live up to the ultra-feminine stereotype that we want to ascribe to women.
Yet, no one seems to object when we over do the feminine stereotype. However, if you were offended by the use of a male stereotype let me apologize for the group. I seriously doubt that any of us MtoFs here fit that stereotype ourselves, yet we acknowledge that there is an element truth in it... and as with all humor (and I'm sure it was intended to be humorous) it's the element of truth combined with the outrageousness that makes it funny.
While I'm a good man, who doesn't think of his wife as purely a sex object, I can identify with the comment. Does that make me a man hater? Not in the least. It just means that I recognize that aspect of masculinity exists in me without defining who I am.
I'll ask you, as a spokes person for MtoFs, please don't take such offense that you leave the group.
I know that when my wife asked, "What do you need for Christmas," and clarified that it would be for my daughter and son-in-law to buy for me, I was at a loss for anything that I'd want as a male. If it was for her to buy there'd have been a long list so, I'll offer the suggestion, that you write the "male" version. As a FtoM transgender, you probably have a better handle on what a man might want in twelve days of Christmas.
Hugs
Patricia
Happiness is being all dressed up and HAVING some place to go.
Semper in femineo gerunt
Ich bin eine Mann
Individual men have a better chance to be good
... men in groups, though, not so much. Men are at their worst when they have to appear 'manly' among their fellows.
Most men are good, I guess, but even 51% counts as 'most' I guess.
But to me the vast majority are just so gosh darn ugly though *sigh*
Kim
I think that also goes for
I think that also goes for women. Actually all people behave more stupid when in groups. I remember giggling groups of girls making fun of every guy that wasn't obviously handsome. I also know dudes that really leave their brains at home when they go out wih their buddies... not good.
That said, in a group of people the IQ of all shrinks to that of the most stupid in the crowd :D Or something like that. In the end we're all animals. It makes people look rather ridicoulous when they deny that fact and then act totally instinct driven ^^.
You talking to me?
Is this about my silly little comment that made a joke using male stereotypes on a silly little song that featured female stereotypes?
It was not my intention to offend anyone.
Men? Women? People?
There are good people, there are bad people, and there are people somewhere in between. Being good or bad has no basis on gender, by birth or by choice.
MT
I'm sorry
That something has upset you this much. But to be frank (no Frank, I'm not trying to take your place!) I just don't or can't see what the problem is with the comments as I see them today.
As far as fair representation on BC, I know alot of good men here on BC, starting with my best friend PB, John in Wauwatosa, Scott Ramsey, Frank, and others whose names I don't recall at the moment. I do a fair amount of horseplay with John, none of which is intended to be mean-spirited, even if it gets rough at times.
I admit to being somewhat anti-male at times. That's because it's been men who have really screwed up my chances at happiness; from the men that molested and raped me when I was just a child, to the high school teenager who wasn't smart enough to not show off his car on a city street and ended up running down and killing my soulmate, my life partner. But even in the middle of all that, I was able to write about a good man who saves the heroine from herself and a life of bitterness. (Happiness Is A Warm Gun)
Is BC what you hoped and expected it to be? I dunno. I'm not a mindreader, nor do I play one on TV. But I think there is a lot of diverse people here, both writers and readers. Quoting from "The Beverly Hillbillys": Stick around for awhile, take your shoes, sit a spell.
“When a clown moves into a palace, he doesn’t become a king. The palace becomes a circus.” - Turkish Proverb
This blog is kind of obsolete now,
I posted another today.