Well first off I think I need to change my name to Aria or something just to get closer to the top of the alphabet.
But that's just random thoughts.
Still not much movement on Crossroads BUT I have been having idea's flicker here and there so that's a good sign. Been working on a few other things but nothing that done enough to print.
All that sad admission of low productivity aside how ever I wanted to share a little list of things that i made. Specifically it's a list of things to avoid in stories.
Now before I get to the list I think I should explain it a little. This is supposed to be a list of things to avoid if you don't want the story to become ABOUT that thing. If you have a story that includes them and that was the intent from the beginning then that's GREAT. This is more of a "Before you toss these things into your story you might want to think about it a little." cause they can very quickly change either the tone, format or focus of a story.
and so I present...
THINGS TO AVOID:
- Overt Usage of Cthulhu Mythos stuff: It doesn't have to be Shuggoths and Meego to qualify. Anything that is unknowable and unstoppable basically fulfills the requirements. This can be fine at the very edge of the story to act as a contrast to the rest of it but it should NEVER be the focus.
- Giant Robots: After a while the story will become about getting to the point where the robot shows up.
- Time Travel: Unless the story is ABOUT time travel it will invariably ruin it.
- Precognition: Represents a less severe but still potentially crippling form of Time Travel. While vague prophesies can be fun, accurate knowledge of the future only leads to problems.
- Over Powered Characters: A person that can lift a ton without overly stressing themselves is RIDICULOUSLY strong. People should not be grandly more powerful than standard weapons. A Fifty caliber bullet should be a problem for most things and all hero types.
- Trumps: Also known as Superheroes and Magic don't mix. Try to avoid having a power or skill set for which the only answer is to also have that power or skill set.
- The Mystic Mythic Past: While it's all well and good to use history and mythology in your story try not to let the past become "better" than the present. Alias and Whateley both had this problem. For that matter if you can pull it off don't use mythology directly. While it's cool to have your hero fight a minotaur it becomes very easy to end up 'trapped' by Greek myth. Better to take the stories and retell them than to take the characters and reuse them.
- Non-humans do it better: Humanity should not be treated as a second class species where everything non-human is all around better than they are.
- Sex and Younger Characters This one can be nothing or be a giant headache for all time. Do kids have sex? Yes. Will a non-trivial portion of any given reader base be made uncomfortable by having it in a story. You betcha. Will a small but vocal portion of those that don't like it call you mean things and be unwilling to listen to even the most reasonable explanation? Double Betcha!
~Matt
Comments
Check Check Check
Cthulhu mythos- Check
Time Travel - Check
Precog - Check
Overpowered Character - Check Check Check
Trumps - Check Check Check
Mystic Mythics- Check Check
I think I'm screwed.
~Lili
Blog: http://lilithlangtree.tglibrary.com/
Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/lilith_langtree
~Lili
Write the story that you most desperately want to read.
Cheque?
Is that some specific storyverse you're talking about, your story coverage in general, some specific story, one-check-per-story, one-check-per-verse, or how are you counting exactly?
It doesn't seem to describe, for instance, EDIRODDIAA, The Country Life, Royalty Consists Not in Vain Pomp, Passion and Purpose, Tales of Cho-Ri. But several stories or storyverses of yours including the Center, Comic Retcon, The Soul Does Not Perish, They Don't Need Any Rules, your Sangria Whateley fanfic, Faerie Queen Universe, What Transpires at Night have strong checks in most categories.
Just in general. I've
Just in general. I've plotted a number of theses as you've listed. And Cho-ri would have to be included in that bunch as of the second story.
Now there's a real challenge... I've got to come up with a story with all of these things listed and see if I can write it only making it not suck. I enjoy these types of things.
There are always exceptions to the general rules like this. But for the most part, they're true. I haven't met a person yet that can write a giant robot story of any consequence except for maybe The Iron Giant,and Cthlulululu is a really difficult plot line to do without sounding like an idiot. A very small handful of people can pull that one off. Even Lovecraft couldn't do it at times. That's why Sangria takes so long to write. I don't know how many times I've gone back and tossed entire pages out because I'd flubbed another scene.
A lot of these are difficult to do, but not impossible... that's why I want to do it all at once!
Cthulalala rises up from the deep and the hero has to build a giant robot to fight him, but he really doesn't have the time, so instead he builds a time machine and travels back... no... that won't work. I'll figure something out.
~Lili
Blog: http://lilithlangtree.tglibrary.com/
Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/lilith_langtree
~Lili
Write the story that you most desperately want to read.
Screwed?
I like your stuff. You don't need to change your style.
Hey, some people avoid any fiction that has magic, super technology, or anything of an SF (Speculative Fiction) bent. That's why the 'Real Life' tag was created.
As for me, I often pass on the 'real life' stuff because I am a big fan of SF. There are definitely some exceptions to that, of course.
Anyhow, while Matt's list has some merit as a vague guideline, I have definitely read very good fiction that involves time travel and the like.
Erm...
By your reckoning, the Whateley Canon Cabal (disclaimer: there is no Canon Cabal) and by extension many of its fanfics are in trouble...
Cthulhu mythos- Check (heck, we've got the daughter of a GOO and a Deep One on campus!)
Time Travel - Pretty much the only thing vetoed in Whateley.
Precog - Check (mainly the enigmatic Mrs. Potter)
Overpowered Character - at least half the campus!
Trumps - slight hitch to your theory - the Dragonslayers and Sensei Ito are baselines (ordinary humans, no powers), yet are very difficult to beat in combat, even by Overpowered Characters.
Mystic Mythics- Not so much the New Olympians (who don't reminisce about Athens much) but plenty of Cthulu Mythos to go around...
Non-humans - while there are some at Whateley who believe that, you're more likely to encounter the exact opposite in the form of H1!
Sex - we know there's probably a fair amount of it going on at Whateley, but it's almost never described. You'll occasionally find 'before' and 'after', but very rarely (if ever) 'during'.
There are 10 kinds of people in the world - those who understand binary and those who don't...
As the right side of the brain controls the left side of the body, then only left-handers are in their right mind!
Ah, you're forgetting giant
Ah, you're forgetting giant humanoid mechas/robots, Mittfh, those are also explicitly vetoed from fully working. And of the originators, at least Bek has stated a regret at allowing as strong Lovecraftian influence as it has.
The impression given me…
is that is that is the divisive issue that got Doc Bender to essentially quit.
I once again direct the viewers and authors…
To Ozzallos's Rules.
The Rules of Fanfiction Failure are oriented towards fanfiction, but contain truths for anyone writing, critically reading, or editing original fiction.
One might also view the Fanfiction Failure Metarules for Writers on his profile page.
Personally, I don't care what plot elements are there as long as it's internally consistent, and writers don't confuse its and it's too much.
Breaking the Rules
I too have a couple of stories that follows under the don't list. My Gift of Time is not about Time Travel but it is just a plot device for a story of forbidden love. I'm sure there are others. Not that I'm calling myself a good writer, but in my opinion A Great writer is one that can break the rules and get away with it. Also A Great story is one that crosses those boundaries with ease guided by a writer with vision and passion. Lilith has proved again and again that she can do so with panache and style.
And she's not the only one here who does so. We have a truly wonderful group of scribblers here.
I just finished reading a commercially produced book, number four in the series. Looking back at it, the story used the same formula as the first three. Hero meets heroine. They fight. They fall in love. They rush off to save the day at the last minute. End title, they live happily ever after. Blah, blah, blah, and yuk.
I so wish the world at large would sit up and realize the wonderful talent that is here at BCTS
Hugs!
Grover
Okay, lets look at my stalled but in progress, really it is, ...
Whateley fanfic, Timeout.
Let's see. I quote.
>>
Overt Usage of Cthulhu Mythos stuff: It doesn't have to be Shuggoths and Meego to qualify. Anything that is unknowable and unstoppable basically fulfills the requirements. This can be fine at the very edge of the story to act as a contrast to the rest of it but it should NEVER be the focus.
>>
I've avoided that one so far. Um does a cross over with a story with several seriously major ancient Egyptian gods/goddesses and at least one Greek goddess count against me? And the mongoose familiar my heroine has aquired was once part of a group battling a nameless evil from the past and has vowed to carry on as a guardian of it's place of imprisonment. NOT a specified mythos so a misdemeanor?
>>
Giant Robots: After a while the story will become about getting to the point where the robot shows up.
>>
Not yet on that one. Dodged a bullet there.
>>
Time Travel: Unless the story is ABOUT time travel it will invariably ruin it.
>>
Guilty as sin on this one both in my story and via that crossover. And my character time travels all on her own power, no machine! Though she has a serious, um, sexy limitation OMG! Yes Yes Yes!!! So pretty guilty but somewhat comically so.
>>
Precognition: Represents a less severe but still potentially crippling form of Time Travel. While vague prophesies can be fun, accurate knowledge of the future only leads to problems.
>>
Sort of guilty but it is vague, rare/infrequent at best and uncontrolled. A little guilty.
>>
Over Powered Characters: A person that can lift a ton without overly stressing themselves is RIDICULOUSLY strong. People should not be grandly more powerful than standard weapons. A Fifty caliber bullet should be a problem for most things and all hero types.
>>
Wellllllll. She's only like Olympic champion plus maybe a little bit extra strong/fast. It's more of an extreme endurance thing for her. In the short run a top athlete has little difficulty keeping up its just she's like the Energizer Bunny, well more a Playboy Bunny. She's not a superpowered brick THOUGH she does have the regeneration thing in spades. So pretty guilty here.
>>
Trumps: Also known as Superheroes and Magic don't mix. Try to avoid having a power or skill set for which the only answer is to also have that power or skill set.
>>
Hum? She does have some considerable *potential* for magic, just she has no conscious control over it despite having picked up an exotic and capable magical familiar. So not exactly guilty or innocent here. The few victims of her magic would tend to argue she's guilty as sin. But she didn't do it deliberately!
>>
The Mystic Mythic Past: While it's all well and good to use history and mythology in your story try not to let the past become "better" than the present. Alias and Whateley both had this problem. For that matter if you can pull it off don't use mythology directly. While it's cool to have your hero fight a minotaur it becomes very easy to end up 'trapped' by Greek myth. Better to take the stories and retell them than to take the characters and reuse them.
>>
Touches her on the fringes but not really. Though that crossover ...
>>
Non-humans do it better: Humanity should not be treated as a second class species where everything non-human is all around better than they are.
>>
Nah. Though she does have this mental link thing with a mystical magical mongoose. But they are more like pals or partners. No alien superiority here.
>>
Sex and Younger Characters This one can be nothing or be a giant headache for all time. Do kids have sex? Yes. Will a non-trivial portion of any given reader base be made uncomfortable by having it in a story. You betcha. Will a small but vocal portion of those that don't like it call you mean things and be unwilling to listen to even the most reasonable explanation? Double Betcha!
>>
Okay, guilty BUT only in her mind. She's a good girl she is.
>>
~Matt
>>
Not sure what THIS TG story trap to avoid is.
--GRIN --
John in Wauwatosa
John in Wauwatosa
Whoa... lots of comments for me...
LOL.. I have a feeling that I may have hit a few buttons.
Well like I tried to say before the list itself this is more a list of things to keep in mind as potentially problematic than a "IF YOU USE THESE YOU ARE A BAD WRITER!!!! RAAARRRR!!!!" kind of thing. There have been lots of stories that have used these all very well and not come across as stupid.
(Not sure about one that uses ALL of them though Lili... :D)
The truth is that if you carefully plan the incorporation of these elements they can be fine. The problem comes when you are writing along and you get to a point where it would be either cool or easy to have someone from the future travel back in time to warn the characters about something or do something. If there was a one time instance and you are he only writer on the project you can get away with it no problem. In a shared universe however you have now opened up time travel with all it's potential headaches as a possibility.
Much as i loved Illyana Rasputin from the New Mutants, once she was introduced (Lets see... a Mutant Time/Space teleporter with Demon magic...) a disproportionate number of the stories became about her. That isn't to say that they were bad stories but they took a VERY different direction and had a very different feel. Once they started time traveling Magik was the only way back so even when the story focused on a different character Magik was still really high in the story. Eventually they used the admittedly awesome Inferno crossover to de-age her and get rid of all the mess that she was.
Then they killed her.
Dicks.
And then brought her back but of course she's a time traveler so maybe this is a version of her from before she died that we didn't know about... freaking Marvel. :P
What was i taking about?
Oh, right. The list. All I really intended it for was to be tucked away in the back of your head and when you get to a point in a story you're writing where you are thinking about introducing one of these elements that you THINK about introducing it rather than just tossing it in and wondering what happened later.
Or something like that.
~Matt