Commenting on your own stories… I have noticed that a number of authors on this site have started replying to every readers comment on a story with a comment of their own. Since we can no longer vote for stories, this tends to give a totally misleading impression of the popularity of a story. For example I see a story with 20 votes and think "this might be good," and browse the comments, only to find that ten out of twenty have been posted by the author. This is a misleading practice, somewhat akin to a politician repeatedly voting for him/herself. I have heard from many authors who don't do this that they regard these "reply-comments" as cheating.
I have had 'thank-you messages' from a number of authors, but usually in the form of a PM–Personal Message–(click on "write to author") which does not massage the number of comments in a manner that is unfair to other authors.
I would add that I am not transgendered, but the mother of a teenage TG daughter.
End of Rant,
Hilary P
PS (added later) I would like to add that I am a blunt Scot and speak my mind when I believe it is needed.
Comments
As someone who replies to comments...
Oftentimes I'll reply to one or two comments because there's something I want to say to all my readers within the context of responding to one person's comment.
That said, I try not to reply to every comment, and even condensed it all into a blog in the case of chapter six of Robin Book Two, specifically because I don't want people to see 30 comments on my story chapters and think 30 individual people posted a response, versus playful public banter between myself and a commenter over what's going to happen next (Although I am guilty of that on occasion. Sometimes I worry that it scares people away from commenting so I try not to anymore)
Just my opinion on things. For what it's worth, on a sidenote, it's nice to see a mother of a TG child visits TopShelf. :-D
Edit (to your PS): Fire away! :-D I may not always AGREE with others, but I try my best to respect everyone's opinions and feelings.
I Like the Author's Responses
I like the interaction between the readers and author that an author's response to comments often brings.I find that fairly often the comments take off on a tangent that doesn't even really apply to the story. If popularity is what you are interested in, I think the read count is a better indicator. There are plenty of story's that have lots of reads and no or very few comments.
reading a story
i personally have never read a story based on comments. But thats me.
Three Cheers for Honesty
Being something of a no nonsense sort of person, I applaud blunt honesty.
As to comments, I have also seen writers who engage in a running dialogue with their readers via comments. I find this a bit odd, but that's just me. If I do respond to reader's comments, which for me isn't very many, I use the PM route or I make a blog entry and give a blanket, 'Thanks for the comments and support,' statement.
Some writers, like Persephone writer to everyone who comments to her stories, a laudable effort a slacker like me does not replicate.
If I do have a complaint, I would have to side with the one you point out. Such back and forth does over inflate the apparent popularity of a story. But since I do not judge which stories I read on that, but rather by what item the author highlights to describe their story, I am seldom sucked in.
Nancy Cole
"You may be what you resolve to be."
T.J. Jackson
Depends on the reply and the reason
RAMI
I agree with you to a point. I guess it really depends upon what the commentor said and what the author replies.
If it's just a continuous, "Thanks for commenting" reply and done for each comment, then your point is well taken.
But if the comment was critical or raised an issue about what the author wrote, and the author replies to that criticism or needs to clarify what they wrote, then the reply from the author is vindicated and necessary.
Additionally, if it is done by a new author, perhaps they feel it proper to thank those who made them feel a part of this family by replying.
RAMI
RAMI
An opposing viewpoint
Some of us think just the opposite as you.
Some of us think that those that comment as doing us a favor by saying thank you and we as authors reply in kind. I've noticed that since I started replying to comments that my comment count has gone up and not in the inflated way you choose to see it. More and more people who don't regularly comment might see that the author cares enough to actually interact with his or her audience. So, others become more involved.
Another valid reason: There might be questions that come up, clarifications, similar modes of thought, etc. that those who normally don't comment might have an opinion to add. Should the author take the extra time to answer the same exact question ten times or post it after a thoughtful comment and answer a lot of people all at once?
I see public interaction as a good thing. If I wanted to hole myself up I wouldn't be here writing in the first place.
~Lili
Blog: http://lilithlangtree.tglibrary.com/
Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/lilith_langtree
~Lili
Write the story that you most desperately want to read.
I agree
The poster of this blog actually PMed me with a rather nasty message accusing me of trying to "gain an advantage over other writers on the site." (Then proceeded to tell me how nice she was by sending me a PM rather than a comment on one of my stories.)
I am one of the authors who actually try to reply to every single comment she gets. I honestly couldn't tell you how many comments I get, and I couldn't really care less about how many readers I get. I reply to every one of the comments on my stories because it's fun, and it's a way of getting a little bit of human interaction. (I generally try to avoid it irl.)
And, as Lilith says, it shows the readers you care about them. I know that I love when somebody replies to a comment I've left on something they've made, (On or off this site,) because it shows that they actually read your comment. I think almost everybody knows the golden rule: "Do onto others as you would have them do onto you."
And a note to the writer of this blog: If you're checking out a story, rate it based on how you like the story, not by how many people commented on it. Even stories that receive 100 comments, 99 of them could be saying things like "Your story stinks." (Although my hope is that the people on this site are nicer than that.) And stories that are absolutely wonderful may be read mostly by people who don't like to comment, and as such the story may only have 2 or 3 of them.
Oh, and one more thing, never accuse somebody of doing something for malevolent reasons unless you know what's going on in their head.
-Kylie
"Sometimes it's Free, but not Free. Sometimes it's Free but not Free. Sometimes it's both Free and Free, and sometimes it's neither Free not Free."
(I read and reply to all comments left on my stories, despite what some people think.)
I comment in my
comments section, usually in response to something someone has said that moves me to respond. I haven't been writing here long but I treasure and feel I'm building a rapport with my readers, the comments they make really help lift me up to write better.
I can see the point made, and sometimes yes there's a lot of chatter and back and forth in the comments sections but this is a community and this stuff'll happen. Me I love it most of the time because you can read really witty things or funny or just right down smart stuff in there.
The whole numbers bit is...I mean these authors who call it cheating getting to upset about it...sorry? I don't get the whole idea of it being a competition.Oh I PM too I wrote like 4 just this afternoon. And I'm a Non-TG as well I lost a friend who never could get out of her depression.
I'd say tell these writers that if they want counts look at the reads it gets and -20% off for those who click in but didn't stay to read it. I figure that's a rough accurate count for everyone or so.
Have a nice day:)
Bailey Summers
I don't think it's anything so calculating
...some folks just like to talk. For some of us shut-ins this site is what passes for a social life.
And as a commenter I like knowing my comment was appreciated & get feedback on whatever I'd expressed.
I like the conviviality of these public discussions. But I can see that it does tend to jack up the hit count.
~~~hugs, Laika
Well shit, I guess it really CAN happen here..,
.
Right you are, Laika!
I couldn't agree more! You just amaze me sometimes...
Well shit, I guess it really CAN happen here..,
.
Absolutely!
Ditto.
Cheers,
Puddin'
A tender heart is an asset to an editor: it helps us be ruthless in a tactful way.
--- The Chicago Manual of Style
-
Cheers,
Puddin'
A tender heart is an asset to an editor: it helps us be ruthless in a tactful way.
--- The Chicago Manual of Style
Puddin'
You are so perspicacious to notice how clever Laika is, how perfectly apropos are Laika's comments, and how lovely is the day. I know you didn't actually say all that, but you could tell from the general tone.
Admiringly,
Puddin'
A tender heart is an asset to an editor: it helps us be ruthless in a tactful way.
--- The Chicago Manual of Style
-
Cheers,
Puddin'
A tender heart is an asset to an editor: it helps us be ruthless in a tactful way.
--- The Chicago Manual of Style
Guilty!
I've done lots of replying to comments on my stories. Sometimes I go overboard and try to respond to every single one even if I don't have anything to say except 'Thanks!'. Most of the time I only reply to comments that get me thinking or show that something may have been misunderstood (that wasn't supposed to be...;). And sometimes I don't reply at all when I'm feeling down.
I've thought about the inflated comment angle, but eventually decided not to worry about it. I never read a story based on how many comments it gets (and also, I started doing this before voting was disabled). But I've also had some really great conversations with my readers in the comments. Some silly and fun, some more serious. And some have given me some great ideas that way. Also, I always like it when an author responds to my own comments, which is largely where my tendency to respond to comments comes from.
Saless
"But it is also tradition that times *must* and always do change, my friend." - Eddie Murphy, Coming To America
I am not a Scot, but I slept at a Holiday Inn Express last night
... so I can manage to be blunt, too.
Cheating? As in, attempting to win by breaking the rules? Isn't that a little strong?
I was not aware that this was a game. Do you keep score? Who is winning? Can you post the rules?
(Okay, I admit that I'm pleased when I get a lot of reads. But I know better than to measure my stories against anyone else's read counts.)
Choosing a story by the volume of comments -- or the number of reads -- seems pretty silly to me. If you have to follow the crowd, go to the library and pick out a bestseller -- they'll have FAR more readers than anything you find here. (Justified or not.)
The comments section is a place to discuss the story. Why on earth would the author not be allowed to participate?
Excellent points all, Misty.
Excellent points all, Misty. It isn't a contest. Who cares?
Here's some advice I give to everyone that has a hate-on for certain (stories, authors, keywords, whatever) If something offends you then don't read it, don't follow the author, don't read the stories with keywords you hate, etc. It will save you a lot of stress in the long run.
~Lili
Blog: http://lilithlangtree.tglibrary.com/
Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/lilith_langtree
~Lili
Write the story that you most desperately want to read.
Just think of all the Danielle Steel books
...we've been spared the tedium of reading by *not* buying exclusively from the New York Times Best Seller list Not that there's anything wrong with Daniele Steel, I just don't like her stuff. Many do, obviously.
Danielle Fernande Dominique Muriel Emily Schuelein-Steel
We were born in the same year. I haven't sold near as many books as she has. It's probably all those names... With that many to choose from, she could have been almost anyone she wanted to be.
Cheers,
Puddin'
A tender heart is an asset to an editor: it helps us be ruthless in a tactful way.
--- The Chicago Manual of Style
-
Cheers,
Puddin'
A tender heart is an asset to an editor: it helps us be ruthless in a tactful way.
--- The Chicago Manual of Style
Replies
I think there are valid reasons for replying to a comment directly on the story, PM in private, or both. Someone's comment attached to the story might bring up an issue that everyone would be interested in knowing. A general reply would certainly be justified in a case like that. I'm not sure how many commenters check a story they've commented on in public to see if the author acknowledged their comment, if it was worthy of a comment. Sometimes I reply in public as well as using a PM, just to insure that the person who took time enough to write knows I cared. Some comments that should have been PM'd in the first place probably should only be PM'd in turn.
As far as weighing the worthiness of a story by counting comments is concerned, it is probably an invalid exercise. Just because a story pushed all the buttons doesn't mean it's a great story. Some really bad movies make millions while worthy works of art show to a few thousand.
De gustibus non disputandem est. There are some fine, talented authors on this site who will never realize the credit they should be receiving. Hopefully, they won't let the body counts discourage their writing further. One thing I don't do is run around and see who is getting the most hits (Can I even do that? I guess I can), or the most comments. I think there is almost a ritual involved in making comments to certain stories. Of course there is no way to ascertain how many PMs a story has generated. Most comments don't go much beyond saying, 'That was nice" or something to that effect. I don't very much that even five percent of the readers here could really make a intelligent critique about a story. I know that I am way outside that five percent. Of course there are many professional critics who cannot speak or write in understandable sentences.
I think the bottom line is, don't evaluate a story's worth by the comments it generates. If I did that, I probably would have gone off on a prolonged sulk long ago. I think the latest chapters I posted curently have nine comments, and all but two deal with something extraneous to the story. The comments I really value are those made by a reader who is reading a story I posted more than two years ago. The newness affect has worn off. I think a comment like that has much more weight.
Portia
Portia
>> not sure how many commenters check a story they've commented
If a reader is interested in the comments, they can look at their own account page, check the track tab, and see if new comments have been entered, and if the story itself has been updated, which last can be very handy indeed.
If one hasn't commented, one has no way of seeing if any of these things are true, so a comment benefits the reader as well as the author, since it serves as a sort of virtual "bookmark" that let's one see where one left off.
Cheers,
Puddin'
A tender heart is an asset to an editor: it helps us be ruthless in a tactful way.
--- The Chicago Manual of Style
-
Cheers,
Puddin'
A tender heart is an asset to an editor: it helps us be ruthless in a tactful way.
--- The Chicago Manual of Style
To sum up what comes so far - opinions vary
Some feel like they need to answer everyone, some feel they need to answer if necessary or some valid point was raised up, some like to join in comment/conversations. I am of this third kind, mostly. Yet there is a lot of stories which, while I enjoy reading, don't provoke a lot of questions or like. To these (like captivating Nancy Cole's tales which I see as more of something to be enjoyed while keeping myself distanced a bit) I seldom respond.
I guess it indeed comes as a matter of how the comments are viewed by both the reader and the author in question. I do like to be answered. :)
Faraway
Big Closet Top Shelf
Where you can fool around like you want to and most you get is some bemused good ribbing!
Faraway
Big Closet Top Shelf
Where you can fool around like you want to and most you get is some bemused good ribbing!
I decided not to name names, but
I decided not to name names, but yours was one of the first to come to mind as someone I love corresponding with in my stories' comment sections. More than once you've inspired me to take the story in a new direction that I never would have thought of ;-)
I think, ironically, I'm going to be a little more lax in the future and try to be a little more talkative with commenters after reading some of the compelling responses here.
I've never seen comment counting as a competition anyway. I enjoy seeing "New comment" and "You have a private message" whether it's positive or negative, and I love to let people know I value their thoughts and comments, so I may as well just be me :-D
Alas, if it were so easy to do so offline :-P
Cheers,
~Zoe
Deceiving totals
The one thing that multiple comments does is also expand the read numbers as you have to open the story in order to read the comments. Thus people who have already read the story are often coming back to read the comments - especially if there is some controversy and jacking up the number of reads at the same time. While FM doesn't count the reads it also doesn't connect the comments directly to the text so one can read the comments without opening the story again.
Commentator
Visit my Caption Blog: Dawn's Girly Site
Visit my Amazon Page: D R Jehs
I personally don't like anonymous comments
...which is what FM has on offer as a rule. Anonymity tends to encourage "drive-by" shootings, as people feel much more confident scrawling graffiti on walls when it's dark outside and no one is looking. If one doesn't have the courage to say something using a pseudonymous "online moniker," into which one has invested only the effort required to have an actual e-mail address, why would one trust anyone who doesn't even offer that?
All the comments could be from either the author or the author's worst enemy, and one has no way of knowing except through textual analysis.
Read counts are meaningless in any case. One has no way of knowing how many are correct accesses to the real page, and how many "reads" were supplied by external cache. Given the right circumstances, a story could be read by a million discrete individuals, yet register on site as a single read. All that really matters is whether you, the reader, liked a story when you read it. The fact that a thousand people liked it doesn't mean that you will, nor does the fact that you might be the only human being in the world who was moved by it mean anything at all, other than that a particular story found its mark at least once.
Cheers,
Puddin'
A tender heart is an asset to an editor: it helps us be ruthless in a tactful way.
--- The Chicago Manual of Style
-
Cheers,
Puddin'
A tender heart is an asset to an editor: it helps us be ruthless in a tactful way.
--- The Chicago Manual of Style
This is a really weak
This is a really weak argument. How many extra hits are accumulated for comments. A couple of hundred for the average story? And that would be if people took the time to read every comment every single time a new one was posted. Again, who cares? It's not a contest. Are there winners posted every week for Highest Hit count and Highest Comment count. No. The only person you Author's are competing against are themselves.
Let me see if I can throw another way to look at this into the mix:
I know exactly how to receive a large number of reads and comments. I could average about 3-5000 hits a chapter and about 25 comments (Without my replies counted in the mix)
I would write a contemporary story about a high school crossdressing or intersexed teen living day to day. That's what is popular. Sci-fi, fantasy, historic, superhero, etc. are niche markets. There are exceptions to this rule, but for the most part it's dead on.
I choose to write sci-fi and superhero. So that average drops. I expect it and work to improve against the last story of a similar genre of my own.
But to me it's not a contest since I'm only competing against myself.
~Lili
Blog: http://lilithlangtree.tglibrary.com/
Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/lilith_langtree
~Lili
Write the story that you most desperately want to read.
I must be doing something wrong then...
Let's see....'Catwalk' is a contemporary story about a high school intersexed teen living day to day and I don't get nearly 3-5000 hits or 25 comments per chapter. *pout*
:P~~
:)
Although I do love getting the comments I tend not to reply to all, only a few. It's not a reflection on my readers, mearly lack of time and being a bit .... hmmm ..I guess shy really. Anyway, I do occasionally break thru all of this and post a reply or a comment myself.
luv and all that jazz,
Connie
It Just Takes Time
Every time you post a chapter to your delightful tale, you capture some more readers who will go back to your first chapter. It's fascinating how the numbers continue to rise over time.
Portia
Portia
To every exception there is a rule or is that the other way ?
I am following Catwalk closely and feel it stacks up well in comparison with the better tales here.
As to comments and inflated counts. I do see the concern some have.
But similarly I see the value in the comeradery AND the feed back the readers and writers provide. WHEN I get back to posting again I will value the feedback. Readers see things the writer missed .. for good and ill. Readers are your final proofers/editors. How they react tell me if I hit the mark or struck out.
John in Wauwatosa
John in Wauwatosa
Comments
If someone comments on something I feel its very rude not to respond. Sometimes they do ask questions and sometimes they want clarification and sometimes they just want to say that your story is good. I think a writer should be able to respond with a thank you and clarify a few things here and there. If there's a real clarification I usually send the person a PM but little harmless ones don't hurt anyone.
Aye, and that's the truth of it
But isn't the whole idea that comments are in lieu of compensation for the author? If so, would the limitations suggested by your comment help or hinder the writer? And isn't it true that, even counting the author's responses, the total volume does reflect a certain level of interest. On the whole. it is my observation that creativity gets stepped on with more restrictions. The really nice feel about TopShelf is that it is as free and unrestricted as its innovators have been able to maintain. I think it's just great and we should not fix what ain't broke. I too am a Scot and share your practice of candor.
jmacaulay
jmacaulay
To comment or not to comment..
You are of course entitled to your opinion (TG or not!) and I'm sure some others do share it. From my perspective however, I would most respectfully disagree.
I was absolutely terrified when I first posted a story and the fact that people seemed not only to enjoy the work by reading it but take the time to comment really, really made all the effort I'd gone to in writing the story seem so worthwhile. In response I replied to nearly every post because it meant so much to me and wanted those who took the time to comment know that. That someone would want not only to read anything I write but comment on it (constructive criticism or praise - either are welcome!) still amazes me. Yes, I could PM but it feels kind of odd to me not to thank anyone publicly who took the time to publicly comment. I also do use PM's and reply to PM's. Maybe its a throwback to when I was a kid and my mother told me to thank someone if they said something complementary to me.
As for inflating the number of comments, I've never chosen to read a story by the number of comments it has. Nor would I ever judge a writer or story by the number of comments he or she has (or has not). In fact, there are one or two authors here who I think are absolutely amazing who get only a small number of comments or reads. Yet, I still seek out their new work. I choose stories by the tags, the authors, and the subject matter. I keep reading because I enjoy the story.
We will probably need to agree to disagree on your blog post but I hope you can appreciate that I don't reply to comments to win anything. I'm not the best writer or the site and never will be but if I can give a reader enough fleeting interest in a story so that they feel they want to comment then I feel I should acknowledge that via a comment in reply.
"Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it."
I will usually send a PM
but sometimes it's easier, if there's a group of readers that have enjoyed the story, to say 'Thank you' publicly.
A constructive comment often draws me to read a story that I wouldn't otherwise bother with. ('Sarah Carerra' is a case in point.) A mere 'thank you' doesn't have that effect.
Susie
I agre with you, Susie…
…that constructive comments draw one into a story. Although I haven't posted a story of my own for over a year—I seem to be far too busy editing for other authors—I was always hesitant to add a comment to my own stories except where I could clarify a point to a reader, or—sometimes—engage in a bit of light-hearted banter. I much prefer to use the PM route, because it is a personal message from me to the reader, and, in my opinion, of much greater value.
I rarely comment upon stories which I have edited (for other authors), as I feel that I might be thought to be biased in favour of the author's work.
In general I agree with Hilary's rant and it interesting to see whom the authors are who are at odds with her opinion, are those who—no names, no pack drill—constantly reply to each and every single comment they receive, make it appear as if they're on a great personal ego-trip. My thoughts are that if you want to interact with your readers, send a PM which can be far more personal and pleasing to the recipient.
Gabi.
Gabi.
Okay, now you're just
Okay, now you're just getting insulting. Ego-trip? Because we see things different than you? Please. People are different. Author's are different. They way we respond is different. You would think people that a group of people that bemoan the fact that others can't be tolerant of other people's differences would impose their standards on others when it doesn't affect them in any way shape or form.
How has other author's answering comments on their own stories hurt you? It hasn't. So you go with insulting us, because you have no valid argument. Nice.
~Lili
Blog: http://lilithlangtree.tglibrary.com/
Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/lilith_langtree
~Lili
Write the story that you most desperately want to read.
NOPE, NOT HERE
That's not how the system is designed to work. BC is specifically designed for two-way public communication between author and reader. And it works. I have not seen any abusive author commenting and figuring that someone else is on an ego-trip for replying to a comment is really, really, rrrreallllllyyyyyyy stretching it. :)
Hugs,
Erin
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
Don't judge a book by its cover...
...nor a story by its comments.
I certainly appreciate a PM, but the comment section is where you feel the community of this place. Should I be disqualified from participating in the community, solely because it is my own story?
Why on earth would you check out a story, simply because it had a lot of comments? Do you only like controversial stories? Why would you read the comments before the story? I fail to understand the logic, and I fail to understand the comment count as any kind if a metric of story quality, since there are huge numbers of excellent stories with relatively few comments.
And for the record. I am at odds with Hilary's opinion, and I do not reply to every single comment I receive. I am quite sure that I am not alone in this. Kindly refrain from over-generalizations.
Exactly.
Opinions about the way things *ought* to work are always welcome, because we all realise that they're only that, opinions. Moses didn't go back up Sinai and come back with another tablet, "XI - Youse guys shalt not comment on your own stories!"
On the other hand, none of *us* was up there handing Moses tablets.
Heck, you could write a story in your own comments, as an odd -- but legitimate -- epistolary narrative. I for one would like to see it tried, with or without participation by the members of the general public. I think it could be exciting.
I also like seeing the honest reactions of the readers; the "Oh, no! I hope she's all right!" the satisfied "Good, he deserved it!" Writing a story on BC is kind of like being on stage before a live audience. You can "hear" the gasps from the audience if you surprise them, and you can "hear" the applause when you please them. Sometimes the "performers" talk back. That's part of what make this place come alive! Sure, we get the occasional drunk or heckler, but we also have bouncers... big bruisers all, but with tattoos on their bulging biceps that say, "MOM."
Part of what I see as Erin's vision of this being a *SAFE* place to tell a story is that the author makes the rules. Period. Some of the best writers in this little universe write here, because -- like Heffner's Playboy Magazine -- the author has complete control of their own writing.
Unlike the situation on FM, for example, you don't have to submit a form and ask permission when you post a story, or want to go back and re-edit it, or even remove it entirely. You just do it. As a writer, you're never "stuck" with what you did last week, or even last minute. If you see something you want to change, you can just do it. No muss, no fuss. Complete editorial control. That's how Heffner lured Gore Vidal, and Terry Southern, and many of the best writers of their epochs, back when Playboy was a serious arbiter of a certain part of US culture.
As an interactive tool, comments as implemented here can't be beat. If you want to see if the story is edited or changed, you simply leave a comment. Once you've left a comment, you can go back and trace your own history as a reader as well as the development of a story, sort of like a clipping service. You can just go back and trace your own footsteps to see if anything has changed since the last time you passed by.
It's sort of like a bookmark in a book, or a diary of your own daily interests. It's a wonderful tool that not only allows you to interact with a story, it's a record of how you've interacted, and how often.
Cheers,
Puddin'
A tender heart is an asset to an editor: it helps us be ruthless in a tactful way.
--- The Chicago Manual of Style
-
Cheers,
Puddin'
A tender heart is an asset to an editor: it helps us be ruthless in a tactful way.
--- The Chicago Manual of Style
I enjoy comments
as do all authors, I do sometimes respond, usually to correct a misapprehension or to answer a query, very occasionally to acknowledge a correction. I do also occasionally play with commenters if there is a humorous line I can take in my response, but mostly I stay quiet or pm people. I do however, read every comment made on my stuff.
Angharad
Angharad
What. Ever.
This post is the first I've heard that anyone other than an author cares about the number (as opposed to the tone and quality) of the comments a story gets. As an author, it never occurred to me that commenting on comments to my stories was in any way misleading. Having considered it, I find the idea kinda silly. I see replying in comments as a way of connecting with my readers and clarifying things they might question. While I could go the PM route, I think the community aspect of the site is furthered with civil public discourse. When I get back to posting new stories, I will continue to reply to some comments in comments. It's not done to inflate the comment count, but to make the comment section more interactive and edifying.
I think there are a number of great stories on this site with fairly low comment counts. You're doing yourself a disservice by using the number of comments as a metric of a story's quality, I think. It might be easier to find some other way of selecting stories to read than trying to convert those of us who want to openly engage our readers.
Miranda
NOT MISLEADING
My title is in all caps because I am annoyed and shouting. :)
Authors replying to comments in the comments is not an abuse of the system, it's how it's designed to work. The number of comments on a story is only that, the number of comments on a story. If anyone thinks it is a measure of something else, that's their problem, not the author of the story's problem.
BC was specifically designed to provide two-way communication between readers and authors because many other story websites discourage author replies to comments. I consider that to be wrong-headed.
In my opinion, and I should know, a great deal of BC's success at attracting authors is due to the specific policy here of allowing authors control of comments, to a degree unseen elsewhere, and to encouraging authors to engage in dialog with readers.
Hugs to all,
Erin
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
THANK YOU Erin
Thank you Erin,
I found the original note confusing. Thank you for the clarification. I have replied to comments frequently and have never had a second thought about it.
Appreciatively,
Beth
I think comments are fun
but don't think there is any relation to whether a story is good or not. I can use two of my stories as an example. Being Popular has over seventy-five hundred reads and only seven comments. Assassin part three has twenty-one hundred reads and twenty comments, so what does this mean? Hell if I know. I think this whole discussion is proof that authors have feelings, whether they agree with Hillary or not. Personally I like to read what other authors say in responce to someone's comment, but that isn't my thing, in fact I rarely comment on anyones writings unless the story really rocks my boat. I appreaciate every comment I get, but don't let them influence my stories. The only time I'll read others comments is after I've read a story and don't even bother if a story has no interest for me, but, that's me, Arecee
I never would have thought of comments as ...
having any relationship to votes, quality of a story's plot or the author's skill at writing.
When we had voting, the number of votes was always much, much higher than the number of comments, and didn't seem to have much of a relationship to the number of comments.
Comments, be they open or private messages are only a way for readers to provide feedback to an author OR to a previous commenter. Open comments get counted. Private messages do not.
Many times, the comments are not just a single comment and reply, but a series between the author and one or more readers. Sometimes I see some interesting information, especially comments from the author. Sometimes, though, that author's comment is a response to a comment from a reader, about something I missed.
I don’t see authors returning comments as puffing up the apparent quality of their story. In fact, it is usually an accident if I look at the comments before reading a story.
I send a lot more private messages than I do comments.
I comment when I believe what I have to say might be of interest to the general audience, but use private messages when I believe my comments should be aimed at only one person, ( author OR reader ).
If I am critical, it is meant as constructive criticism, and is sent privately, and nobody, as far as I know, has ever complained about any comments of private messages of mine.
Holly
It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice.
Holly
Comments
Is there an author that doesn't love them? I doubt it, well except the ..'this is crap'.. type, but in general... I got one yesterday on an oldie, made my day, bumped the read count from 3 to 30. I Pm'd a taa very much. Often I'd do that publicly, sort of depends. I replied quite a bit on a recent thing that was pretty personal, mostly it's only a few.
I might roll my eyes a little at a row of TY's from Lilith or whoever, but that's just a difference in personality or approach. I'm not going to get in a tizzy about it. Cheating? Can't say I'd ever thought of it that way, just a bit of introvert extrovert stuff going on. It is as Erin and others have pointed out a big part of the place and what makes it in some ways a community which no other site comes close to.
There will always be differences in approach, personalities, manner, belief...it don't really matter. I'm no hit maker, not what I do, I just scribble stuff now and then. Some others have a knack for writing what many like to read and if they write well... hey a whole bunch of comments. Good on them.
So, comment, reply, TY, hey whatever, it's all good. Drop a PM to tell me I'm a silly cow if you're so moved, mostly I'm pretty polite as are most here even where we disagree.
Comment away people, it beats the hell out of silence.
Kristina
Bit Of A Pointless Argument Really
We all do things our own way. I personally just LURVE comments and have been known to bite the furniture, or lie on the floor kicking and gnashing my teeth when one of my stories has garnered very few.
My personal preference is to acknowledge commenters by PM but if I think somebody has made a point that deserves a public answer or has given me an opening for some banter then I will comment on my own story.
So sue me.
I have no problem with those authors who like to reply to every comment by way of a public comment although repeated TYs elicit a yawn now and again. Does it influence which stories I read? Not in the least.
Anyone who wants to write, please keep doing so. Anyone who wants to comment, that goes double. Don't you dare stop!
Joanne
My personal feelings? If
My personal feelings? If someone takes the time to comment on a story of mine, I believe it is just simple courtesy to reply.
If I check in, and there are several comments in the vein of "Great Read!" or Loved your story!", I will usually do one blanket "Thank you" type of reply for all. If someone analyzes my plot, or has suggestions for a sequel or an alternate ending, I'll reply with a comment specifically to those ideas. IMHO, others reading the initial comment may also be interested in my answer. (Or perhaps I've far too great an opinion of myself, and nobody cares. :) )
If a readers comment would for some reason be best answered privately, then I PM.
As I see it, both comments and PM's are tools, have their own strengths and weaknesses, and will tend to be used creatively in a community as diverse as this one.
A little digging will show that the practice of commenting on comments predates by far the demise of the voting module. It's my observation that those authors who respond to every comment merely have a more conversational nature.
Hilary, I invite you to write something. Anything. It doesn't have to be a novel, or a masterpiece, but it has to be *yours*. Spend every minute of your spare time for a few weeks or even months, sweating blood over weaving a believable plot, tweaking every sentence of dialogue so it doesn't sound contrived, creating characters that are more than cardboard cutouts, and going back and re-writing whole sections because it just doesn't "work". Then (and this is the hard part) put it out there for all the world to see.
It's not easy. But it's rewarding in a way you may not believe. And I guarantee you will view those comments in a whole new light.
- vessica b
P.S. - I prefer blunt people. It's everyone else I worry about... :)
Hmmm...
I think it's a mistake to equate a large number of comments to mean a posting is popular. Â They're comments, after all. If they were called something else, like "endorsements" or something, I can see something to rant about. Â Comments were not designed to be a basis to gauge popularity. Â Assuming that it is is the reader's mistake, and it boots nothing to be irritated that it is not designed to be.
Also, if the writer wants to make a comment about his own posting, that's his prerogative, isn't it? Â I think it's a mistake to ascribe to the writer the sly scheme of commenting on his own stuff to make it seem his post is popular. Â If he/she did, it would just lower the opinion of people of him/her - such a crass method of self-promotion just exposes how lacking in class such a person is, and the times that people do this is obvious to most, if not all. Â
That is not to say that those who comment on their own posts do not have anything to say but are just self-promoting. Â Indeed, a lot do seriously want to comment, or respond to comments.
I think the purpose of the comments section is clear: that one wants to say something that he/she wants other people to read, and not about making a post seem popular.
Also, the fact that it is partnered with someone's post implies that the comment is relating to the post in some way. Â Of course, that is not necessarily so - there are many instances that I've seen someone put a comment below someone's post but the comment is not even about the post. I find that a little... off. Â Sorta like this - blog: "Hey, you know what? i went skydiving today! Blah blah blah..." Â comment: "check out this site about macrame..." Â Eh?
Some may conclude that the commenter wants to ride on the coat-tails of a popular post and garner some readership for his/her comment. Â But, as Erin keeps on telling us, we should give everyone the benefit of the doubt. Â I agree. If it were me, though, I would have written a separate post altogether, and let what I wrote live or die on its own.Â
What gets my goat, though, more than anything, is when someone is purportedly commenting about someone's post when it turns out he/she wants to talk about his/her own blog or story. Â That, to me, is just so... well, I don't know what to say. Â True, his/her comment may have a legitimate point to make, and perhaps he/she is just using his/her own postings to illustrate something. Â As Erin says, everyone deserves the benefit of the doubt. Â But those story or blog zombies who don't have a point to make relating to the story or blog are quite obvious, as well. Â And it is during those times that my irritation reaches a fever pitch. Â I'm not talking about comments to my own stuff necessarily, though - it is a general thing. Â
But there is nothing really wrong with these shenanigans, and Erin and any administrator of the site would find it difficult to justify deleting or unpubbing such comments. Â And they shouldn't. Â Bad taste is not illegal. Â Not having class is not against the law. Â Being boorish is just... being boorish. Â And I suppose the only recourse we have is to just bleep over these comments and not read them.
As to having a running dialogue between posters and their commenters - I don't know about anyone, but to me this is perfectly fine. Â Obviously, a commenter wanted his/her comment read publicly, even though he/she typically addresses the comment to the writer. Â If it were me, I would probably respond in public as well, as I think it is only equitable to do so. Â Private stuff can just be sent via private message, or PM'd. The fact that it was posted means that the commenter intended it to be public, and it is the writer's prerogative to respond publicly, as well. Â Hopefully, Though, such exchanges are not meant to embarass someone, or to retaliate to some imagined slight.
"Inflating" the popularity of a post or story - I don't know. Would one wish to curtail another's ability to have his/her words be out in public if it isn't hurting anyone, simply because of a dubious claim of an undeserved inflation of a blog or story's perceived popularity? The right to speak publicly that Americans and other people so passionately defend would preclude this.
Again, I think it is a wrong notion to associate comments to popularity.  Comments may indicate a story or blog is popular or not.  But then again, they may not.
Cheating... Why is it cheating? and what's to cheat about? About garnering readers? Is writing something in BCTS all about getting as many people to read your stuff? And here I was assuming it was all about giving people pleasure in reading, or to share an idea or opinion. Â Cheating... Maybe, if racking up readers was my main motivation...
Deceiving totals... what's to deceive? What is the purpose of these totals, anyway? Meaningless read counts... why meaningless? what meaning should it have, anyway?
There really is no way to see if a story or blog is popular unless the vote function is returned, or some other similar mechanism is deployed. Â Using read counts or comments as concrete indicators of popularity or of quality is a wrong-headed notion.
Of course, these are just opinions. I'm not necessarily claiming these opinions to be wrong or right.Â
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To see Bobbie's stories in BCTS, click this link: Â http://bigclosetr.us/topshelf/book/14775/roberta-j-cabotÂ
To see Bobbie's "Working Girl" blogs, click this link: Â http://bigclosetr.us/topshelf/book/19261/working-girl-blogs Â
To see ALL of Bobbie's blogposts, click this link: Â http://bigclosetr.us/topshelf/blog/bobbie-cÂ
Yeah, I've been guilty of that, but I feel bad about it
IE metioning one's own work in a comment on another.
But that is not always self promotion. It can be, and usually is in my case, to point out to a new writer that I have written here so they understand that these are the comments of someone who sympahises with the effort they have put into their story. IE that the comment is comming from a pier as well as a fan?
Well reasoned comments can encourage me to devote more time to a story I have only skimmed for some reason. But more often than not I am rewarded by that read so the comment was useful to me.
In an ideal world there would be a way to keep the *oomunity* of comments yet keep the *counts* accurate. But we live in the real world and no tools, however well welded by Erin -- praise be to Erin! P.S. do I get a cookie? -- snicker -- are perfect.
Oh well.
John in Wauwatosa
P.S. Can I have an ego trip, pretty please?
P.P.S. Couldn't resist
John in Wauwatosa
Taking an ego trip
'E's gone already.
I started on a journey about a year ago
To a little town called Morrow in the State of Ohio.
I've never been much of a traveler, and I really didn't know
That Morrow was the hardest place I'd ever try to go.
So I went down to the station for my ticket and applied
For tips regarding Morrow not expecting to be guyed.
Said I, My friend, I'd like to go to Morrow and return
No later than tomorrow for I haven't time to burn.
Said he to me, Now let me see if I have heard you right.
You'd like to go to Morrow and return tomorrow night.
You should have gone to Morrow yesterday and back today
For the train that goes to Morrow is a mile upon its way.
If you had gone to Morrow yesterday now don't you see,
You could have gone to Morrow and returned today at three.
For the train today to Morrow, if the schedule is right,
Today it goes to Morrow and returns tomorrow night.
Said I, My friend, it seems to me you're talking through your hat.
There is a town named Morrow on the line now tell me that.
There is, said he, but take me a quiet little tip.
To go from here to Morrow is a fourteen hour trip.
The train today to Morrow leaves today at eight thirty-five.
At half-past ten to Morrow is the time it should arrive.
So if from here to Morrow is a fourteen hour jump,
Can you go today to Morrow and get back today, you chump?
Said I, I'd like to go to Morrow so can I go today
And get to Morrow by tonight if there is no delay?
Well, well, said he to me, and I've got no more to say.
Can you get anywhere tomorrow and get back again today.
Said I, I guess you know it all but kindly let me say,
How can I get to Morrow if I leave this town today?
Said he, You cannot go to Morrow any more today,
'Cause the train that goes to Morrow is a mile upon its way.
I was so disappointed. I was mad enough to swear.
The train had gone to Morrow and had left me standing there.
That man was right in telling me that I was a-howling jay.
I could not go to Morrow so I guess in town I'll stay.
(Just thinking about Who's on First?)
Cheers,
Puddin'
A tender heart is an asset to an editor: it helps us be ruthless in a tactful way.
--- The Chicago Manual of Style
-
Cheers,
Puddin'
A tender heart is an asset to an editor: it helps us be ruthless in a tactful way.
--- The Chicago Manual of Style
IMO
Read the synopsis to get an idea for the story and don't look at the number of comments. That's misleading anyway. I don't think it's fair to say an author can't comment on their own stories simply because it's misleading to *you*. I like when authors actually respond to the comments, the more the better. It stops people from just hitting a submit button and thinking they're just throwing a meaningless comment out on the internet. It shows the author to actually have a face and is actually a real person.