I am feeling really left out lately. You see most of my friends are from the transgendered community or the geek community , and lately I feel left out in most situations.
With my friends from the geek community I feel OK , they seem to accept me and while I can't speak with them on everything ( the all transition thing for example ) it seems like they are there for me .
With my friends from the trans community I feel left out ( and sometime judged ) because of sexual orientation.
You see by some weird twist of fate it happened that about 95% of the trans girl I am friend with /know off are of an opposite sexual orientation. The problem is that I can't speak about my romantic life ( or the complete lack of it :) ) with them since most of them just ignore this subject /say they can't help , some of them even go as far as to delegitimize my orientation . What makes me feel more left out is that they try to help another friend deal with the same problem just from the opposite side, I mean its not like its that matter that much that they can't even help me when I feel lonely or something.
Reading this post I know it doesn't put my friends in a positive light but they are good friends. I mean they help me with other problems but when this problem rises they just ignore (once someone told me that I "should just find a straight women to talk about this issues and leave them alone already" :( ).
I am at a complete loss as to what to do. I mean I don't make friends that easy and I would it for this issue to ruin my friendship with them.
P.S
I wanted to write more about it but in mid post I found myself getting too depressed to continue :(
Comments
They Should Remember
As a community, we are always trying to educate the rest of society that Gender Identity and orientation are separate. It is ironic that your friends don't consider the same within the Trans community. Just because you are transitioning does not mean you will have a magic switch that will flip and make you like men. It is just the same with the general population. Not everyone is heterosexual. Everyone knows there are Gay and Lesbian people in the overall population. Why shouldn't it be expected among the Trans population too. I know Trans men who like women and some who like men. I also know Transwomen who like men and some who like women. Nobody should be allowed to make assumptions about you just because you are expressing your true self.
Hugs,
Jen
That's not the problem
I know sexual orientation isn't dependent on gender orientation , but my problem is that my friend think that sexual orientation changed the way you experience love life (They think its so drastic that they can't even help me with how to approach this issues)
P.S
I am attracted to guys and my friends are to girls (I guess my post is vague about that because its not the point of it and shouldn't really matter :)) .
I Have Noticed Something
I have noticed something in dealing with men as a woman. Some men are just concerned with having their needs met and could care less about whether the girlfriend or wife is satisfied. Women tend to care more about pleasing their partners and their female partners tend to reciprocate in the same way. They tend to understand what really turns other women on. Men sometimes don't have a clue and don't care to. I think your friends only have one frame of reference so that tends to limit their knowledge. I suppose the best way to get someone who might understand the differences and similarities is to ask someone who is Bisexual. They would be able to tell you something from experiencing both relationships.
People Change< Lilly.
It's a universal problem, especially for friends.
Although everyone gave good advice. Jen's could help too, if you
happen to know someone that talented, and with whom you are comfortable
talking. Looking in the phone book for bisexuals, when what you really
need is a friend might be a good idea, but a better one might be to look
under friends. Especially anyone older.
One of my best and longest friendships was with Benny. He was one of
those people who just had the worst life going, usually for every reason
that was not within his control. He was gay, and to this day, I'm not really
sure why. I always wondered if it was because of some things that his older
brother and friends did to him when he was younger, but either way, it was
just never an issue for me.
He struggled less with it than another friend, who attempted suicide several
times over his orientation until his older sister took him to a gay bar, but
he did have some problems. A girl he felt he loved, and family issues.
All through that it was never a problem, and we were just good friends, because
he was first and foremost, to me, a person who if he witnessed people picking
on another unfairly, or if they were saying something about me, I didn't even have
to turn to see his face. He was more likely to stick up for the person than anyone.
Most importantly, he was my friend.
He joined the navy, I found out later in an attempt to get away from the family
issues, and to try and change the direction of his life, only to repeatedly come
into his dorm/room to find his bunkmates in flagrante. Well he finally got some of
the help he needed, but he was discharged from the navy, and came home.
When we talked about his orientation after that, as he tried to explain all that
had gone on, I just said: "So what. Not your fault, and everyone I know has known
that you are gay for ten years, and even that's nobody's business."
It had never been hidden between us, really, but something changed that day that was far
more important. I remember a few days later, when I saw a very pretty girl walking
by. Now I've never been rude, really, as I always look at eyes first, but I said
something like 'I'm going to be depressed now, for the rest of the week.' Then he responded with 'Yeah, and she's not bad either...'
It was funny, but at that moment everything changed, because it became the topic that
we could never really stray far from. It took years till we could get to the point
that we could talk as we always had, for the fourteen years before that day.
Before that day, I'd have said it was a small thing that really didn't matter to me.
But it did. Not that he was gay, but rather that he changed the character and nature
of our friendship. That was important.
I have very few close friends at any one time. Sometimes they are friends for the
best of reasons, mutual respect and personality. Sometimes we just agree due to
circumstances we are both in. Sometimes, we have common interest, or likes. Each and
every one of them change over time.
Perhaps your geeky friends are just the greatest friends for ninety-nine percent of
your life (very good friends, indeed, but are just not those kinds of friends that handle
the changes very well, especially if they feel like they're being pushed. It's sad to think
that, but not if you remember that you too fit into their lives in a certain way. When you
change that, even for all the best reasons, and even if it's only by being who you are, it
can still make them feel uncomfortable with the unfamiliar.
It's so important to being a good friend, to know and respect their strengths, and
issues they may have problems with, like changes. I'm no expert, not by any stretch,
but it mostly seems like they are good friends who just don't know how to help
That's why I said to seek someone older. Your friends are still good friends, but
an older person will have had more experience with friends, and friendships. If you
can find the right person, you will even find that they can help with your orientation
question. I think that just needs a good person, regardless of weather they are straight,
gay, or even diagonal. Better still, it will be less stressing of your friends too quickly with the changes you are trying to make your way through but which they may not have any
good feeling for the advice you need. Hopefully, You may even make another good friend, one based on the kind of relationship/understanding, that you need right now.
Benny is gone. He died just a couple of years ago, just around this time, at a very
young age. I can't say that I regret the several years we were more distant while his
outlook matured and fit itself more smoothly into himself. We were always in touch, and
good friends who could talk about anything because we were still more alike than not. Later, when other subjects became more interesting, we grew closer again, because you see, he was my friend. Regardless of any changes.
Sarah
It's called homophobia
Your sexual orientation makes your friends uncomfortable because at some level, they have not processed the fact that they are now the gay ones and you're straight. This kind of social conditioning goes deep and is largely unconscious.
What can you do about it? Not much. Pray for enlightenment for you and your friends? Maybe that would work but it's got to be a long shot.
All you can really do is forgive your friends for being human and work toward your own enlightenment. Read some romance novels. Hang around with some straight women. Be prepared to be lonely now and then.
Someone who might actually be able to put themselves into your head without judgmental stuff getting in the way is an older lesbian, gay man or bisexual who's seen enough of life to know what matters and what doesn't. No guarantee, even there. Reverse homophobia exists and is hilarious when you're not the one having to put up with consequences of its inverted logic.
Relax. It gets better. Then it gets worse again then better. Life is like that.
Happy holidays.
-- Donna Lamb, Flack
Some of my books and stories are sold through Doppler Press to help support BigCloset. -- Donna
-- Donna Lamb, ex-Flack
Some of my books and stories are sold through DopplerPress to help support BigCloset. -- Donna
Hon, it really doesn't matter what one has between their legs.
What matters is what they have, and what they are, in their hearts and souls. You say you are attracted to men, and I say good for you! Sexual orientation is fluid. Some of us girls still orient on what they always did, on women. Some of us orient on men, after transition, or even during it. It's nothing to worry about, but rather something to celebrate. Our diversity, our compassion, our understanding almost compels us to accept and appreciate the differences among us.
God bless you. You have nothing to worry about, hon. The only things that could worry you is if you had NO preferences at all, liking neither men OR women. I always oriented on women, until I began an online "thing" with another T-girl. I finally, after months of agonizing over "equipment," realized what I said in my first sentences in this post. That "equipment" is only flesh. Love transcends those petty differences. She is a woman in her heart and soul, and THAT is what I fell in love with.
As our French cousins always say: "Vive Le Differance!" Go with what your heart tells you, hon. Anyone who can't understand that, is not thinking clearly, IMHO. In the end, you have to go with what turns you on, not what someone else THINKS should turn you on.
Love and hugs,
Catherine Linda Michel
As a T-woman, I do have a Y chromosome... it's just in cursive, pink script.
Actually it's not whats between the legs
I mean I was attracted to a Trans-man once and what he had between his legs was no matter for me ( actually its reassured me that attraction transcend the whole physical stuff :) ) .
Lily.
P.S
That's one sugary sweet story Catherine , Hope everything wen and is going well between you ^_^
I wish, with all my heart,
that it had worked out for us, but after meeting face to face for the first time, at SCC, we both realized that it wasn't right for both of us. In any relationship, it HAS to be right for both, or it isn't right for either. We parted best friends and still correspond as often as we can via skype, or on the phone. She lives in Atlanta, I live in Western New York, by the way.
She is the sweetest person in the world, and that was my point in my original post in this thread. It didn't matter to me that we are both pre-ops. What I fell in love with was a sweet, wonderful, caring woman, in her heart and soul. I never thought it possible for me to feel the way I felt, and still feel about her, but her orientation is more like yours, and I didn't fit the bill. I would have given up my quest for full transition for her, but she wouldn't let me do that. She knew that I would always be unhappy if I did that, and she refused to be the reason for my unhappiness.
In my mind, I know she was right, but in my heart...oh well, whatever I guess.
My point was: It doesn't matter what "equipment one has. What matters in what's in their heart and soul. What matters is who a person is, not WHAT they are. As I said, our lifestyle dictates that we MUST embrace diversity. Sexual preferences can be fluid, as I proved, but whatever they are, if love is the result, how can that be wrong? If your orientation is toward males, I say, more power to you! I hope and pray that you find your "Prince." What others might say or think about your orientation is not important. It's YOUR life, hon, and what matters is what YOU think and what YOU like.
NOT what anyone else thinks you SHOULD like, think, or feel.
Be you, and be proud.
Merry, merry Christmas from,
Catherine Linda Michel
As a T-woman, I do have a Y chromosome... it's just in cursive, pink script.
common problems
I have found that when people share a common "problem" -- such as being transgendered -- they often find it difficult to talk about any other problem they might have. When I was transitioning, I found that nobody was willing to listen to to me, or talk about, my diabetes, even though I knew for a fact that some of them were diabetics themselves. It seems that one common problem forms a bond, but two are an overload.
Can't figure sexual orientation out.
The whole issue had been pretty confusing to me and as far as I am concerned I am completely Hetro, with a touch of lesbian in me. Of course since the operation, I consider myself completely woman, so I would readily partner up with a guy.
Well, I haven't had a single taker. Not a single man has been interested in me, and not a single woman is either. Almost all (6 of the 8) my 8 friends are genetic women, and we get along quite well. Both men are spoken for but they are still friendly.
I am intensely disappointed. I see far too may trans women who do not seem to have brought the fantasy out into their real lives. Here in portland, transwomen seem to be so reclusive; being completely shut off from the rest of the world. In my mind, this talk of sexual orientation, gender, and all that other stuff is just sad.
Gwen