I often see comments about stories written on this site that are little more than a put down in some cases.
The vast majority of the Stories on BC are works of fiction and I often wonder if the person who makes some of these comments knows what the "FICTION" means.
The dictionary definition is;
fic ·tion”‚ [fik-shuhn]
—noun
1. the class of literature comprising works of imaginative narration, especially in prose form.
2. works of this class, as novels or short stories: detective fiction.
3. something feigned, invented, or imagined; a made-up story: We've all heard the fiction of her being in delicate health.
EXPAND
4. the act of feigning, inventing, or imagining.
5. an imaginary thing or event, postulated for the purposes of argument or explanation.
6. Law . an allegation that a fact exists that is known not to exist, made by authority of law to bring a case within the operation of a rule of law.
I for one don`t mind critisism if it`s constructive and well meaning but come on get real,
All those day time soaps are fiction do you believe them, or what about the alternate universe stories do you believe them also ?
If your going to critisise make it constructive, we`re not budding all Charles Dickens or Charlotte Bronte.
Jackie
Comments
Writers, Editors and Critics
When I started out writing stories, a veteran author told me a cute little ditty concerning writers, editors and critics. While I have no doubt I will be offending more than a few people here, something I am rather good at, I shall share it with you since I have come to discover there is a modicum of truth to it.
Nancy Cole
An author is a person who has a wonderful command of the English language, is creative and is able to tell a story.
An editor is a person who has a wonderful command of the English language and is creative but does not know how to tell a story.
A critic is a person who has a wonderful command of the English language but not only does not know how to tell a story, he has never had an original thought in his entire life.
"You may be what you resolve to be."
T.J. Jackson
Truth
Geeezzz!
You're mean...
Some of us Editors are also writers. Not all editors have a command of the English Language (be that US or UK).
I think you should have prefaced your definitions with the word 'Good' or 'Great'.
I would have to place you among the 'Great Writers' however.
Keep writing.
I have been asked to edit some works that I had to refuse... they were SO BADLY written that I could not make heads of tails of what was being said.
The writers that I am presently editing for are very good, and it is a pleasure to search, sometimes unsuccessfully, for corrections that need to be made.
Zip
I respectfully disagree.
Two points, first they can be fluent in any language.
Second an author doesn't have to have a wonderful command of the language.
To the original poster. Yes it is fiction, but it still has to make sense. If your story is set in the "real" world, then you can't have dragons flying around. If it's a year later, then everyone will be a year older.
The fact that something is fiction ...
... does not excuse it from meeting certain expectations readers have regarding its construction, readability, and internal consistency.
Of course fiction isn't real, but it has to feel real. It has to pull a reader in and make him or her believe that the story is true. It's SUPPOSED to be believable, no matter what kind of story it is. Yes, even fantasies, science fiction stories, or horror stories should be believable -- that's why genre stories require more effort on an author's part.
In order for it to be believable, a story has to be readable. If someone has to work at understanding the story, it makes it that much harder to believe in its reality (while at the same time making it less of a pleasure and more of a punishment to read). Also, if the people in the story don't act as a reader would expect them to in real life, it kills the willingness to belief the events in the story are actually happening. Without the willing suspension of disbelief on the reader's part, a story is nothing but words on a page.
Now, on the other hand, if you as a writer create a story that readers believe -- that touches them and makes them care about your characters, you're doing a terrific job. Unfortunately, one measure of how deeply readers can care about what happens to those characters are the comments that mourn the pain they go through and curse the antagonists that caused it. If those comments bother you, you're in the wrong business. Because when you write fiction, you WANT to move people. You want to make them care.
As for constructive criticism? I have no idea what that is, actually. There is no objective definition for constructive criticism, and I have no idea what your subjective definition for the concept is. As a result, I'm confused by what you want. Should I point out typos delicately in private messages? Is pointing out grammatical errors acceptable? Or can someone mention continuity errors -- am I allowed to mention that you had a character wearing a blue coat in the third paragraph that morphed into a yellow one for no reason at all two paragraphs later? Or is that nitpicking in your eyes? I'm pretty sure you don't consider the comments that tell you people are living through your characters as constructive, but since one should never assume, perhaps you should offer a guide.
If you want to make sure you don't get the kind of comments you don't care for, take a moment to put a note at the bottom of each story you post telling us all what readers can or cannot say if they feel moved to comment. Just remember, the harder you make it for someone to speak their mind about your story, the easier it will be for them to keep their virtual mouths shut.
*hugs*
Randalynn
I agree with Randalynn
To start off with a side comment, Randalynn and I meet Nancy's definition of "author", although I'm nowhere near Randalynn in terms of quality.
Now that is properly disposed of, lets get going, shall we?
First, the math. My comment was really to Rita. Her comment seemed to me to suggest that he wouldn't have to be a girl for 15 months. I just did the math to show her it was even longer than he thought. I put that down to him being only 10 years old, and most 10 year olds are not terribly strong on math. Well within the behavior I expect of such a character. Part of that real feeling Randalynn pointed out.
The rest of my comment I considered a discussion of the story as written. I was fully prepared to continue my suspension of disbelief until reaching the part describing the universal acceptance of the entire town. That was the crack in the wall for me, so I pointed it out. Not as a gripe but as an observation for you. Like all such observations you are free to ignore it and continue writing this story the way you want. Allow me to point out that you have had four (five now with Randalynn) discussing your story and suggesting areas you might want to look at. I think that's a pretty good measure of your story, that five writers here on BC found your story worth our time to read and offer comments on. Now, if that bothers you, you can blow us all off, you can explain what you want at the bottom of each chapter, or you can post with comments disabled.
For myself, I have better things to do with my time than make comments where they are clearly not wanted.
* * *
"Girls are like pianos, when they're not upright they're grand!" Benny Hill
Karen J.
"Life is not measured by the breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.”
George Carlin
Constructive criticism
I'd like to answer this: "As for constructive criticism? I have no idea what that is, actually."
First of all, constructive criticism is done not for the critic's purposes but toward the author's purpose; the aim of telling a better story. It's not for stroking the critic's ego except as a side effect of accomplishing something worthwhile. Amazing how much criticism you read commercially is written for the critic's purpose until you realize that those critics get paid to do that. That's their purpose, to get paid. Their writing is an end in itself and has little to do with the thing they are criticizing. Amateurs should not imitate professional critics, their purposes are completely different, as different as that of the fan of horse racing and the diner in a French restaurant who orders pavé de cheval aux pommes frites.
Second, that's the particular author's purpose in the particular story being discussed. Not some hypothetical story that does not exist nor some imaginary author that is not the one currently doing the writing. Generalized advice can be applied specifically but advice toward writing some other story by some other author is not constructive.
Third, constructive criticism is done with the idea that it might actually accomplish the the goal of improvement. So anything that embarrasses or humiliates the author is not going to work. Nor is something vague that can't be followed. Criticism that focuses on the morality of the actions of characters in the story is missing the point of having a story.
Fourth, constructive criticism involves respect. Any sort of criticism that contains contempt for the story, author, theme or genre is going to be counterproductive. This is a more specific instance of three rules above. If you don't like police procedurals, or space operas, or crossdressing stories, don't try to criticize an example; your dislike will show through. Don't attack the conventions of a genre either, like how many marquesses there were in England in 1833, you just have to accept some givens for the story to move forward.
Fifth, constructive criticism is not argumentative. If an author replies to a critic and the critic feels compelled to defend the criticism with a public attack on the author's understanding, talent, motivations or morals, then that criticism was not constructive. Corollary to rule one. Discussion and debate can be fun but too many critics respond to criticism of their critiques as if they, not the author, owned the world being created.
Here's an example of constructive criticism I gave out at a writer's group. It's necessarily general because we are not discussing a particular piece of writing here.
The story was high fantasy, set in a world of elves and demigods. I told the author to take the story in a word processor or text editor and do a search on the word "was". For every sentence that had the word "was" in it, make an effort to rewrite the sentence to use a more active verb, like "run", "sweep", "think", "burn" or "wish".
Make at least two efforts on every sentence to come up with a better version that does not use the word "was". Don't get obsessive, some sentences are actually better with a "was" in them. If you end up by changing 3/4ths of the "was" sentences to ones with more active verbs you will have gone a long way to making the story feel more immediate and more real to the reader.
If you feel this has made a big difference, you can go back and search for "were" and "been" and even "being" and other forms of "to be". But "was" is the most abused word in English fiction writing.
That's because "to be", in English, is most often used as a coupling verb -- it simply asserts that a relationship between subject phrase and object phrase exists. Good writing should be more specific; what sort of relationship exists? If it is a relationship that can use a verb expressing an action, that's more specific and usually better.
"To be" has other uses in English, sometimes it is better not to try to hard to avoid using a "was", especially in dialog.
Now that's constructive criticism. I got that piece of advice in one of the first writing classes I took in upper division college English, more than thirty years ago and I've tried to follow it and pass it on. It works.
Hugs,
Erin
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
Thank you, Erin
I'd read that list of words some years back, but I'd didn't make a note of them so of course I forgot them. I'm going to copy them right away into a Wordpad file and put it safely away. Likely in some directory I'll never find again! :) The doctor blames it on the long-term effects of the anesthesia from my heart surgery, I haven't told him I was like that before!
* * *
"Girls are like pianos, when they're not upright they're grand!" Benny Hill
Karen J.
"Life is not measured by the breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.”
George Carlin
Makes Me Mad
Makes me mad to hear to that kind of comments ,It's kind of put up or shut up if you don't like it delete it and write your own story. So if you don't like the stories delete your account THAT IS MY TAKE ON THESE KIND OF COMMENTS----HUGS JACKIE FROM RICHIE2
My take: criticizim... isim. people talking about something they
read.
Take other's comments with a large grain of salt but do give them consideration, even the ones that at first seem insulting. Mind you I am fairly thick skinned by BC standards so I am not as easily hurt as many others. Still when someone doesn't like what I write it hurts. I try to find something constructive in it. Not all critics are as eloquent as Randa or a astute as Karen_J, two writer/commentators here I respect but nearly all feedback is useful.
If your readers don't seem to see your story in the same light as you then maybe something is missing or confusing. As a writer you are the goddess of your little universe and *know all* *see all*, even things important to your story you forgot to put in it. OOPS!
I have had fairly harsh comments about a story of mine in the past, so harsh others came to my defense. BUT the critic did have a valid point, just I had to filter that thru other comments to realize what it was. I was too vague about a couple characters and their interpersonal relationship. To some it appeared as if they were engaging in illegal sexually relations. That was nevr the intent but I could see where someone might make the inference. i made a few quite minor changes here and there to more clearly define/explain their relationship and I believe the story was all the better for it.
Now where being a *constructive critic* IMHO comes in is the critic though not rude was pushing it and not clear about their concerns. If they had taken greater care in their comment, avoided some of the emotion and got to the core of what bothered them I might have seen the problem with my story much sooner. Feed back is a writers life's blood but if it upsets you so much you dismiss it out of hand then it does you the writer and he or she the critic no benefit.
So stay polite, maybe PM about things that seem like nitpicking or might hurt feelings but do comment. A writer has no clue how the readers are &seeing* heir tale unless they get comments.
Just treat the writer with courtesy even if you want to chop off their head with a rusty ax for abusing your favorite character.
And remember MOST stories here ARE FICTION. So chill-out *K*?
-- GRIN --
John in Wauwatosa
John in Wauwatosa
armchair critics
I don't often see too many people try to tear apart a story... Unless that story is SciFi, and then hoooooboy! author beware!
way too many people out there that want to rip apart a scifi story, any kind of planet building is practically pointless unless it's basically Earth re-made
try and make a cool and fantastic planet and suddenly your the bad guy because you didn't have master's degree in astrophysics when let your imagination run wild...
I think most people that read the story though don't care if you created a world that is... in all likelyhood.. actually floating out there somewhere.
In fact, there are even some of us (Like me) who want as little to do with reality as possible
I can only suggest
Using a couple of sayings.
The first is an MST3K mantra, that your would-be critics ought to recite.
The short version of it is - "It's just a show (or in this case - a story), I should really just relax."
The other is the Bellisario's Maxim - "Don't examine this too closely."
{Highlight to read - a strongly worded statement.} And well, maybe give a pre-emptive warning: "This is a story that takes place in a parallel world, alike and unlike our Earth. Any inconsistencies you see are to be attributed to this. It is also a work of fiction, so take your juvenile attempts to troll everyone down elsewhere."
Faraway
Big Closet Top Shelf
Where you can fool around like you want to and most you get is some bemused good ribbing!
Faraway
Big Closet Top Shelf
Where you can fool around like you want to and most you get is some bemused good ribbing!
Criticism = your story is being read. For the time being anyway.
When posting a story chapter by chapter you are actually asking for comments. That is, unless you have the comments section turned off.
Each chapter when posted is read by different types of people looking for an entertaining story, mostly a believable story with a well defined main character.
Even the harshest criticisms made in the comments section have a purpose. These persons were compelled to comment for some reason. Your story made them feel something, or didn't make them feel anything.
Some commenter's use examples to try and show you what they are meaning with their criticism by referring to certain stories they have written.
The most comments I see for newbies is the need for a good proofer and or editor. If your story is liked, but you have many comments from respected authors suggesting you find a good proofer/editor they are only trying to help you and your story.
Who is going to keep reading a story filled with stupid easily corrected mistakes? Who is going to keep reading a story when everyone reading the story finally realizes that the said author is ignoring the advice and is even complaining about it?
Believe it or not we are trying to help you write a readable story and help you become a better writer. Some of us do this in different ways by using different styles of commenting.
There are many different types of comments that mean to convey the same thing to the author. I'm sorry if I'm a little blunt, but that is my style of commenting. I apologize in advance!
Ask anyone here that has been here for awhile and they will tell you I have a special place in my heart for the newbie! I remember what it was like being a newbie and have learned so much since then.
But, if the newbie does not heed the advice given them, no matter how many times and in any number of different ways, then what?
Your readers stop reading, the comments stop being made and you are left with what?
Huggles Jackie
Angel
"Be Your-Self, So Easy to Say, So Hard to Live!"
"Be Your-Self, So Easy to Say, So Hard to Live!"
Re: Comments
The one thing that I have found is most people that do comment are a least taking the time to read the stories and pointing out areas that need work, at first though being a new Author it was hard because I did feel like they were picking apart something that I spent a lot of time and energy writing but after stepping back and taking the time to read over what I had wrote I realized that most of what was said was correct, and I went back and spent a little more time working on the story and like many people I was told that I should look for a good proof writer which I did and it made a big difference in how the story read.
So as far as comments I think it help you become a better writer, for the most part I started writing because for years I have enjoy reading the stories on this website and wanted to give it a try for myself. I would really like to thank the people that did comment on my stories because they are the ones that are giving me the advise that I need and pointing out those stupid little mistakes that are pretty easy to fix.
cain129
Comments
Little mistakes like your use of the word 'advise' instead of 'advice'.
I have a Dear Reader who rarely makes a public comment, but helps me a huge amount by picking up on typos such as the example I picked just then. It is meant and received well, and is exactly what I like to get. But, with apologies for picking on cain129, it is done privately. That is a matter of politeness. A critic who is impolite is not a critic, but a heckler.
I have had one or two comments that are not complimentary. They have, however, been polite. Now, I try to write realism rather than fantasy, but as has been said whether I am doing a horror story or a kitchen sink drama, there has to be an internal consistency. After all, the mainspring of a story is not 'what happens?' but 'why?'