Printer-friendly version
Author:
Taxonomy upgrade extras:
I got a heavy dose of reality not long ago, and it cured me of my obsession with the hit counts for my stories.
My best story chapter is slowly edging it's way to 4000 hits. That's the very best I've been able to achieve here on this site. But some other story sites make my hit count look anemic.On the Manga Fox web site, there are several mangas with over 50,000 hits, and the best manga on the site is closing in on 600,000 hits. Wow!
Everything really is relative, and my hit counts are relatively small and insignificant. I just laugh when I see my story hit counts now. Who was I fooling when I fancied myself an up and coming author? Only myself. Feh.
- Terry
Comments
Hit Count Obsession
Terry; Your comparing to the wrong kind of stories, Mangas are very popular with the Far East people and so they get heavy, very heavy hits. So don't down grade yourself if your gotten 4000 hits to me that sounds SUPER! Richard
Richard
Stereotyping
Actually, Manga is much more popular in flat numbers in the WESTERN world than in the Far East. Americans, Britons, Italians and the French consume together the vast majority of manga.
I doubt that greatly
There are many more manga titles in Japan than ever make it to the States. Manga in the US is pretty much a niche thing, in Japan it's mainstream. In the US, B&N has two racks of manga. In a Japanese bookstore in LA, there are twenty or more racks full. And that's still only part of what's available in Japan, because everyone reads manga there. There are a dozen or fewer Japanese bookstores in Southern California. Tokyo alone has many times more places to buy a wide variety of manga than that. And California is where in the US manga is most popular.
More manga may be SOLD outside Japan than inside because Japan is small compared to the sum of North America and Western Europe, but that's not popularity, that's sales. Manga in the US isn't even as popular as comic books, though it may have a comparable dollar volume. Popularity has to do with penetration and ubiquity and manga here just hasn't penetrated the culture as deeply nor as widely.
Copycat manga, manga-style comics made in the USA are gaining popularity but they may have peaked. And it really isn't the same thing at all, it's a fusion art mixing styles like the mix with Euro-styles that happened in comics in the 70s.
Hugs,
Erin
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
Terry Compare Apples vs Apples not Oranges
RAMI
Dear Terry:
The number of hits is somewhat important, but votes and comments show a truer value of your work, and of the support of your readers. Also, if you have to compare hits, then you can only compare your hits with hits of other stories on this site.
I do not know anything about the Magna site, but what is that site's total daily or monthly hit count versus TSBC total for the same period. I am sure that site gets many times the hits.
Try doing a mathamatical formula to see if the numbers work differently.
You also should know that you do have a devoted following on this site.
RAMI
RAMI
Where's Einstein when you really need him?
[quote]
Rami
then you can only compare your hits with hits of other stories on this site.
Rami
[/quote]
This
Even then you have to break it down to the type of story Magic, cd, sissy, sci-fi, etc.
I'll have to disagree with the formula thing though. Algebra! EEEEK! If two TG stories are traveling at 50mph toward each other and one story has a higher hit count, but the other has a higher vote count only on Sundays. Then what color panties is my brother wearing?
This way lies madness.
Lili
http://lilithlangtree.tglibrary.com/
~Lili
Write the story that you most desperately want to read.
Pink of Course
AS your approach the theoretical speed limit of TG stories a pink shift occurs.
Michelle B
That explains it.
That explains it! I never took Quantum TG Physics. I'm more of a Chemistry type of girl. Now where did I put that test tube with the new TG Virus?
(wink)
Lili
http://lilithlangtree.tglibrary.com/
~Lili
Write the story that you most desperately want to read.
Too Easy Lillith!
Pink!
I are a scientest. scientust!
As for you Terry. I respect your opinions, but I really don't
think there is a cure. It's a genetic defect. Clearly all my
hits, counts, and comments are treasures.
Sarah Lynn
Please don't feel
Please don't feel discouraged. Manga is extremely popular. Also, each site gets different amounts of hits. Comparing to other stories here on BC would be more meaningful. Personally I think 4000 hits is pretty good.
Saless
"But it is also tradition that times *must* and always do change, my friend." - Eddie Murphy, Coming To America
"But it is also tradition that times *must* and always do change, my friend." - Eddie Murphy, Coming To America
tis all relative
Yeah I know... there should be a comma somewhere in the tis... maybe even two, gasp.
Hits are a poor measure for worth, though I grant that anyone that posts will hope for a goodly number. Votes and especially comments are more to the point. I mostly do okay with my stuff, though in terms of hits I am waaay below many here. My most read piece only recently topped the three thou mark, but I'm happy enough. I write for myself and then hope that others will connect with it. Some will some won't but I can't write to some formula to maybe please more people and think myself popular. Aint gonna happen. I am who I am and write as I feel it and I think that's all any of us can do. Some tap the current desires and feelings better than others, just the way it is. I don't begrudge anyone success yet sometimes feel a little bad for those that don't get recognised, sometimes a great story will simply fall by the way side, which is sad.
For anyone that writes just do your best effort and grow with each as they come, we's all still learning hopefully. Sort of feel the need for some pithy Zen type comment about labour being it's own reward but I can't think of one, so I'll go with Nike, Just Do It.
Kristina
Comparing Stories
First off, I'm not going to stop writing. So my three fans can breathe a sigh of relief. *giggle*
My point is that I'm fooling myself if I think I can ever become a professional author and make enough money from my stories to support myself. I guess I'm sort of a little desperate to find a source of income since I've been unemployed for 10 months. *sigh*
As for comparing stories, I think it's fair to compare different genres and mediums. Manga is still a form of storytelling. There are other examples of online stories getting more hits. I just chose Manga Fox because it was convenient. If I wanted to get really depressed, I could compare to the number of copies sold for national bestsellers. I think a sold copy is analogous to a hit. What do you think?
- Terry
Need to write something different
RAMI
I am not sure how large a commercial market there is for TG stories. I know that there are sites that are commercial and sites that sell TG stories. and novels. I have no idea if any but a small number of people make anything from those sites.
In order to determine if you have a commercial future, you need to write something, that would appeal to a commercial audience. Have a go at that before you give up on your dreams.
RAMI
RAMI
Only The Top 200
Or so stories ever posted on this site exceed 5000 hits so you're doing pretty well, Terry. Check it out on the "All-time Popular Content" bar. So stop whingeing and write more! I will be EXTREMELY happy if one of mine ever gets to 4000! :-p See, I'm jealous,
Joanne
4000? 4000? I wish I had 4000!
Terry, I don't know what you are complaining about. My Princess and the Plague although seems to have a following hasn't come close to 4000 hits. I had to go all the way back to Camp Kumoni Ch. 4 before I had 4000 hits.
4000 hits is extremely good for this site. I wish I had more 4000 hit chapters/stories.
A.A.
The Deception of Hits
My best story just broke 4000 hits, no where near what some of the stars here get. I try not to get jealous; wishing them the best for work that is clearly better than mine.
The best story I have ever done; poured my heart and soul into it; really dug deeply into my heart; writing about a world I wish could be. Yet, from some of the things I have heard, some of the content was offensive; no direct comments, just echoes of them. Color me extremely paranoid right now, not likely to live.
Right now things feel really dark, and I am wondering if I want to see the sun come up. Trying to gain the approval of others for my work feels particularly harsh right now with the ravening wolves pounding to get in and kill me. While I am struggling harder than I ever have with my emotions, and this talk of hits just makes me feel raw and vulnerable.
IF, I ever publish another story, maybe it will just be with hits, votes and all that elusive and deceptive stuff OFF. Maybe if I do my own web site, I won't even make space for my own email.
I Know How You Feel
Hi Gwen
Sometimes I, too, feel like I could never garner the hits that some of these other authors accumulate. However, I want to share with you something that I have noticed.
Some of my most read stories have low numbers of votes and vice versa. For instance, my most read story is about to break 3,000 hits, but the number of votes is in the middle of the grouping, maybe slightly lower.
This tells me that stories with high numbers of hits sell themselves well (well-written teaser or what have you) but are not necessarily the best stories. The ones with higher vote scores are the better stories.
I hope this is helpful. It helped me feel a bit better.
Please don't give up posting your stories!
Hugs,
Lisa
Story Hits are like a box of chocolates,
You never really know what you are going to get.
I had just typed a long drawn out comment about hits and it went away.
So, I'll keep it short. I like to see comments, a short synopsis of my story by those who liked it and those who found it absurd and not pleasurable.
I can improve from comments, hits just tell me someone has read my story and nothing else.
Jill Micayla
May you have a wonderful today and a better tomorrow
Jill Micayla
Be kinder than necessary,Because everyone you meet
Is fighting some kind of battle.
ACCccck
I hate blogs like this. The numbers are always so out of line! And it just don't matter.
I happen to be a very, very good writer. I know this because the most intelligent, most discerning, and wisest readers on this site have told me they like my stories. (Obviously they are intelligent, discerning and wise because they like my stories. And some of them write stories I like too.) But I don't get anything like the hits you are talking about, probably couldn't if I gave out candy kisses with each hit.
Alas and alack -- not for me; for all those poor shomoes that can't even be bothered to click on my wonderful, fantastic stuff. Yeah, Terry, you deserve 4000 hits a month, 40K even, but if it don't happen, so what.
I'm happy with my thou. I get all the best readers, really. At least all of the best for my things. A few like it!! I know I'm not Shakespeare ("What's with this Bible thing that always out sells me??" he would ask if alive today.), not even [put name of your least favorite hack here]. Not any great shakes. I know that. But I like what I write. It's fun to do (except when I can't keep my self imposed deadlines). And if even five - three - one other enjoys it, that is copacetic.
But don't judge your skill by hits. Hits have more to do with tags, I think, than ability,or even content (and with timing of installments and length maybe). Touching the readers - or only that special reader - is a better goal, and if she happens to be the kind that will comment, you are lucky, because then you get to know you found her. If she isn't, you should just take it on faith that she exist.
Seek Joy;
Jan
Hit Obsession
Don't worry too much about the hits as a measure of value. Many of the best stories here receive little attention. By all means, write the best story you can, but be aware that in terms of hits, the literary value of a story doesn't mean as much as the proper subject matter, visibility and the right "packaging." A key part of the packaging is visual. Look at the top stories on BC/TS and note the titles, how many are serials, and the number that use graphics. A decently executed high school cross-dressing comic serial with a title of, say, "Pink Panties," might break all the records.
:)
Doing the graphics yourself is a viable option. With all the 3d and manga software out there now -- some very cheap, even free -- one doesn't have to be a great artist to produce something visually attractive. For a good video on the relative merits of talent and hard work, I recommend this presentation by Howard Taylor, self-taught artist and creator of the popular comic, "Schlock Mercenary."
Presentation link
Aardvark
"Happiness is when what you think, what you say, and what you do are in harmony."
Mahatma Gandhi
"Happiness is when what you think, what you say, and what you do are in harmony."
Mahatma Gandhi
Perspectives
Some time ago someone running this site or a person who was switched on as to how things worked here did an analysis as to what the hits really reflect. Having contributed a few quirky stories here, I watched how the hit counts worked and how my material stacked up against others.
One very telling moment came when a chapter of "No Greater Love" was posted right behind a chapter of "Football Girl", a story, that I happen to love and can't wait to read more of. Anyhow, within short order readership of "Football Girl" outpaced readership of "No Greater Love" by a margin of three to one. Was I disappointed? Maybe a tiny bit, (Hey, I am rumored to be human). That more people would follow "Football Girl", a series with a more traditional story line for this site was no big surprise. It has, after all, most of the elements of a TG story that folks here are looking for. I knew from the get go that NGL would behave a small following. NGL was written for an entirely different audience. I only posted it here on TopShelf in order to see how it was received and to give the readership of TopShelf something a little different. (Okay, sorry, a lot different.)
Another aspect of hit counts that must be considered is repeat readers and the curious, people who read the first part of a story in order to see where it is going. The first few parts of NGL had high hit counts, due to those who wanted to see if it was their cup of tea. When I did not deliver those elements of TG lit that some folks here enjoy, readership dropped off dramatically. By the end of NGL, fewer then 600 folks were following it. There is also a habit of some folks to go back and re-read the earlier parts of a serial. In my mind, the truest measure of a serial's readership is measured by the number of hits the most recently posted chapter receives within the first week or so.
So, does that make NGL a failure? If you measure by hit counts alone, yes. Big Time. Yet it is not a failed story. Just how much of a success NGL will be is in the hands of others at the moment, but I do have hope.
I personally share my stories here on TopShelf for several reasons. One is TopShelf is a wonderful proving ground for new writers and a great testbed for stories, one where the writer can get some really good feedback that is timely and honest. Reader comments make my stories better. I do not publish on TopShelf on order to put notches in my gun belt or count coup. For some writers, that is enough. That's okay. We all write for our very own personal reasons. Since I have both Welsh, Irish and English ancestors, I've no choice but to write. (And yes, my Welsh ancestors were named Jones!)
I appeal to new writers, however, those who wish to sharpen their skills and evolve into something better to ignore the hit counts and concentrate, instead, on delivering something that is truly reflective of you and your abilities. Ego building and doing something simply because it is popular just to be popular are, in my mind, the enemies of quality story telling.
Of course, I could be wrong
Nancy Cole
(Okay everyone, let's all sing a rousing verse of 'Men of Harlech' and lift our glasses to St David!)
"You may be what you resolve to be."
T.J. Jackson
That is actually quite good on this site
Terry,
As Anastasia said, 4000 hits is quite good on this site.
As others have said, you cannot compare hits on this site, with hits on another site like the Manga site. The number of people that come to the site is a limiting factor.
For myself, Jason's Story part 1 hit 4000 a couple of months ago, part 2 is still in the low 3000's. What is more relevent is that the new chapter from Jason's sequel is up to over 800 in less then a week. My first story has been here for over 3 years and is just now approaching 1000 hits, but still has not hit it. When I compare that to Anastasia's latest Princess chapter which is approaching 2000 in the same time, it gives me an idea of comparative popularity.
(Not that I am at all surprised or offended by that, since I myself had to read P&P - 21 before I posted mine!...)
As others have pointed out, hits are a very poor way to determine the success of a story. Comments and votes are better tools, but even those are somewhat ambiguous.
While it is true that such measuring sticks are imperfect, and that trying to compare stories based only on these metrics is simply not an accurate picture, methinks that some here protest too much, when this topic comes up, as it does every so often.
Yes, it is true that we should not get too hung up on the numbers. And you can work yourself into a tizzy if you hyperfocus on them.
But most of us are not professional writers, we write because we enjoy it or have some story we want to tell. We hope that others will enjoy it. Hits, Votes and especially comments are a validation that you aren't just wasting your time, that someone appreciates what you are doing.
I'm reminded of a line from You've Got Mail. At the dinner party when Kathleen Kelly first realizes that Joe is Joe Fox and owns the store that is going to put her out of business, after having been charmed by him and his young relatives when she did not realize who he was. Their dates Frank and Patricia come over and Frank is about to pull Kathleen away when Patricia compliments his writing. His ego stroked he says:
You put yourself on the line when you post, we are all human and a little positive reinforcement goes a long way. Yes some kinds of stories here will garner higher hit rates and will evoke more comments. Serial chapters will get a following that one shot stories cannot build too, simply because they have more opportunities to bring new people into the audience. Early chapters in such stories will benefit from repeated readings as people go back and re-read to refresh their memories. That is particularly true when there are long time gaps between postings.
In the end, I am delighted when I see that someone appears to be reading there way back from the beginning. I would love to know if it is someone re-reading, or someone reading for the first time, but we don't have those kinds of statistics. I wish more people would comment, even if it were just a "thanks for a new chapter" I like this story. Then I know who you are.
Some other fiction boards will tell an author how many people have listed your story as a favorite, others will tell you who has listed your story as a favorite. Some have mechanisms for allowing an author to be listed as a favorite and will send the reader an e-mail when that author has posted something new.
Erin does a great job with this site and I am content with the tools we have. I mention them only as other tools that are used at other sites.
In the end, hits, votes and comments are the only "payment" we get for our efforts. Readers can do us a world of good by remembering that. Authors can take what they will from the combination of these tools and it should be used as encouragement, and try to remember, that it is an indication that people are appreciating your effort. Finally remember that it really is not a competition. (Except when it is... ;) )
Hugs,
Kristy
Frankly My Dear Kristy Roland
Frank is a vacuous soul who's obviously unworthy of Kathleen Kelly's love. His remarks tell us how horribly shallow he is.
If you want us to identify with a person in a movie and emulate their dialogue, maybe you could pick a different character and line.
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
Frankly My Dear Angela Rasch
That particular scene was about a person that was looking for validation for his work and a simple comment provided it. That he happens to be a jerk in many ways in the movie is completely irrelevent.
The point of including that quote was about the validation that comes from a simple comment or feedback of any sort, in light of the conversation, that could be hits, votes or comments.
I believe that was clear in my comment leading into retelling of that scene:
Frankly, my dear the overwhelming message of my post was, to be more blunt, that it's not a case of A's is bigger then B's because of Hits, Votes or comments, but that A certainly can use the Hits, Votes and Comments to get some validation that people are reading and following and hopefully enjoying their effort.
I also made it clear that while you can get a general idea of popularity of a story (which by the way is not necessarily indicative of the overall 'quality' of a story) from these numbers, that any such comparisons are inaccurate by their very nature, and that you should not get yourself worked up over them.
As I said, it is not a competition. (Except when there is a challenge or contest, at which point there is a competition.)
Kristy