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There has been some debate about when to allow kids to transition. On the one hand, forcing a trans kid to watch in horror as their bodies go through an unwanted puberty is downright cruel. On the other hand, there seems to be a lot of people who really regret their transition.
Some prescribe puberty blockers. How safe are they?
And then, there are cases where the child was influenced into transitioning -- peer pressure, parental pressure, pressure from school or church. I know of at least two stories on this site where that is the case. Some people emphasize those cases. Just how common are they?
It's easy to say that we should let the kid grow up, then allow him or her to make a decision as an adult. The trouble is that it's much more difficult to make an effective transition after the unwanted puberty has already changed the body. Not to mention the social issue that someone that has always been known as a male is suddenly transitioning to female.
I suppose that if we had an autodoc that could do the job, we could let the kid transition back and forth as many times as they desire without permanent consequences.
But in the real world, the results become more permanent as the treatments continue.
Anyhow, I want to see what everyone thinks. Please, let's keep it civil. Also, don't assume that I agree or disagree with any of Abigail's points. If you want to speculate about how I feel, read my fiction. Then, put your comments there.
Comments
Just to mention a few...
ALL EMPHASIS MINE. "CHICAGO — The American Medical Association (AMA) today urged governors to oppose state legislation that would prohibit medically necessary gender transition-related care for minor patients, calling such efforts “a dangerous intrusion into the practice of medicine.” In a letter to the National Governors Association (NGA), the AMA cited evidence that trans and non-binary gender identities are normal variations of human identity and expression, and that forgoing gender-affirming care can have tragic health consequences, both mental and physical."
https://www.apa.org/monitor/2022/07/advocating-transgender-n...
"As the stakes for the well-being of transgender and nonbinary kids continue to rise, Singh and other psychologists are pushing for more public education on gender-affirming care, including the use of puberty blockers, which delay on the onset of puberty, and hormones such as estrogen or testosterone that help trans individuals acquire the secondary sex characteristics more aligned with their gender identity. Psychologists must also continue to advocate for this community and combat the fearmongering used by anti-trans groups and lawmakers that aim to strip sexual and gender minorities of their rights and safety, Singh noted."
https://publications.aap.org/aapnews/news/19021/AAP-continue...
“It is critically important for every child to have access to quality, comprehensive and evidence-based care — transgender and gender-diverse youth are no exception,” said AAP Immediate Past President Lee Savio Beers, M.D., FAAP. “As pediatricians, we will continue to speak up and advocate for our patients. We also want transgender and gender-diverse youth to know that not only do we care for them, we care about them, we value them and we will do all we can to ensure they have access to the care they need and deserve.”
https://www.clairestranstalks.co.uk/news/do-80-of-young-peop...
"Are Puberty Blockers Safe? Most experts, including our team, believe that puberty blockers are safe: The Endocrine Society* and the World Professional Association for Transgender Health support the use of puberty blockers for kids who want to delay or prevent unwanted physical changes."
*Endocrine Society is a global community of 18000-plus endocrine investigators and clinicians more than 100 countries.
Love, Andrea Lena
there isn't
A massive number of detransitioners
Where there are a tiny number of them who are heavily promoted by people who are publicly hostile to trans people existing, and a bunch a terfs claiming without any evidence that "if they were kids now they'd have been transitioned against their will"
Blockers is the fucking compromise position
quite frankly there is no justification against them that isn't rooted in naked hostility towards trans people in general
(Or to put it another way: cis libs stop trying to golden mean our health away to please the fucking nazis)
And that was me being civil on this topic
Edit: so is this;
You are listening to a literal fascist. As in a fucking PragerU spokesperson
The only good nazi is a dead nazi. and if you have nine people sharing a table with a nazi you have a table of 10 nazis
Detransitioning MYTH
https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/media-s-detransition...
" In a 2015 survey of nearly 28,000 people conducted by the U.S.-based National Center for Transgender Equality, only 8 percent of respondents reported detransitioning, and 62 percent of those people said they only detransitioned temporarily. The most common reason for detransitioning, according to the survey, was pressure from a parent, while only 0.4 percent of respondents said they detransitioned after realizing transitioning wasn’t right for them." Give or take 11 out of 28000 +/- persons surveyed.
Love, Andrea Lena
Thanks
Thanks for giving the numbers, I hate the detransition argument with a passion. A lot of time edge cases tend to be the loudest and people who are genuinely happy with their experience continue on with life without shouting to the world they're happy.
The So-Called Debate
On transgender issues is nothing but a political and pseudo-religious contrivance to marginalise transgender children (and adults) and garner votes for ultra-right wing organisations with the ultimate goal of obtaining political power.
It worked for Hitler and the Nazis so why wouldn't it work for Fascists in the USA?
Cuddling up to these people and legitimising their agenda is the first step to enabling them. What is happening in America with respect to human rights is horrifying. Everything that minorities have gained over the last 60-or-so years is under threat, and not only minorities but women face restrictions on their fundamental rights.
Wake Up!
When and why
Concentrating on the original question, and avoiding political opinion because I'm in another country, my impression is this:
1. As someone else mentioned, puberty blockers are the least worst solution to the problem. They delay most development until the person is old enough to understand any decisions they make and their consequences.
Anyone who disagrees with this either does not understand what puberty blockers do or does understand and has a hidden agenda. They probably want the young person to become locked into a body which conforms to the disagreer's ideal world view.
2. When a child becomes aware that they are not normal for their gender group is also important. Many know instinctively at a very early age. For this group transition is necessary and probably effective, assuming the usual safeguards are followed.
I am one of those who didn't know at an early age. I appeared to be a boy and assumed that I had to do what other boys did, but I was never comfortable with that attitude. I got on with girls but, of course, they assumed that I was a 'boy' and treated me that way when I might have preferred a different relationship.
Everything changed for me at about age 10. Looking back it is apparent to me that was when I began puberty. Then began ten or so years of madness when I didn't know who or what I was and, in the 1960's, nobody to tell me. By age 18 I was ready to transition and, had I been born fifty years later, I would almost certainly have done so.
And it would have been a terrible mistake.
Why? Again, hindsight and the slow realisation that the driver of my transgender leanings is in fact Testosterone. I have relatively low levels of the stuff; for many years I thought that everyone was like me and it was only much later that I realised that most men are perpetually soaked in the stuff.
I began to notice that my TG desires, no, needs, gradually ramped up over a period of many days and then cut off dead over perhaps a period of about twenty minutes. These ramps repeated at about a 33-day interval. I eventually understood that this was the levels of my Testosterone production gradually building up and then abruptly stopping. Over the years I have seen these ramps subside and, while they are still there, they are very much reduced as my body ages.
So that's why transitioning, for me, would have been a mistake. Remove the main sources of Testosterone production, remove the influence that hormone has on my brain. No T, no femininity. I wound have had all the equipment and none of the motivation. I wouldn't have been female but I wouldn't have been male either. I'm guessing that many of the 'failures' after transition may be due to a similar cause. Testosterone affects my brain differently than it affects most male brains. It does not make me male, except in a purely physical sense, and even that is done poorly. I probably class as MAIS (Mild Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome).
I only shave every two to three days. I have very little body hair. My hip size has always been bigger than my chest size and my waist has always been small. My shoulders were narrow until I started knocking houses about. I am not obese or even overweight for my height. My pelvis is so large I have floating ribs inside it, but it is a male shaped pelvis. My skin has always been as soft and sensitive as that of most women, which has sometimes been a drawback during my life. Because of my high waist I find most male clothes uncomfortable and badly fitting. I can't buy men's jackets since they don't close over my hips unless I buy too large for my chest and shoulders. Needless to say, women's attire fits me much better.
So I'm stuck. I do understand my position and that other options could have had worse outcomes, but that is again entirely from hindsight. I could easily have made a mistake had I been young enough when the facilities were readily available.
I wonder how many others have similar bodies to me.
Penny
PS I do not know if, had I transitioned, whether HRT (Estrogen) would have made a positive difference. It is all moot now anyway.
I've Spoken Out Often
For me, MtF transition and surgery was a mistake.
a good read
“The 7 Sexes: Biology of Sex Determination” by Elof Axel Carlson is among the better pieces of science writing. Published 2013 by Indiana (!) University Press.
I disagree though with the count: it’s 7 sex factors. By my reckoning if each can be M, F, or ? that gives 3 to the 7th power or 6561 combinations.
Suppose for sake of argument that anything other than pure-M or pure-F is disease; my opinion then is that the job of medicine is to do more than just watch suffering run its course.
I think puberty blockers. are
I think puberty blockers. are the best solution to a difficult question. I have seen cases in the newspapers where trans patients want to sue the NHS for giving them what they wanted. It's not like you can pop in male and come out female overnight.
They need to be of an age where the decision is their own Their life, their body, their decision. I don't doubt that there are a few rare cases where the children are talked into it. The problem comes when the press get hold of a story, just like the de-transitioners, it becomes the truth.
All children are talked into it, all trans people want to de-transition.
Stories like this do not help
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-6067657/Transgend...
Leeanna
It Happened in Psych 101
It happened every year when first-year students took the required Psych 101. They would self-diagnose and walk around campus in a daze wondering how many years of therapy they needed.
It is possible that young females are self-diagnosing gender dyshoria where none exists. I'll give Shrier that much.
I had to quit watching her video after ten minutes because it made me so upset. False facts. Unsupported statements.
The fact that she was speaking at a far-right campus is revealing in itself.
It is my understanding that most "irreversible" actions are taken after the child is seventeen. If I'm wrong on this -- please let me know. I'm also quite sure that very few doctors would subscribe drugs for teenagers without parental consent.
Jill
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)