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(As a retired trans person living in COVID semi-lockdown, I occupy my mind with all manner of trivia. So here goes:)
I enjoy reading stories here, but I also read a lot of more or less trans-"activisty" blogs and web pages, and I noticed something:
The blogs I read frequently insist that the usage "transgendered" (i.e., with "-ed") is wrong and "transgender" (no "-ed") is correct, and they rather consistently use "transgender"
However, my impression (I haven't done word counts) from reading stories here is that most authors use "transgendered" most of the time, and quite a few never use "transgender" (no "-ed"). So it seems clear to me that, at least in the demographic that writes stories here, the version "transgendered" is prevailing.
What I wonder about is: as time goes on, and transgender stuff and transgender terminology become more and more mainstream, which version of the word is likely to prevail? I'm wondering if the people insisting that only "transgender" is correct are fighting a losing battle, and eventually "transgendered" (however "incorrect") will be the word that everyone uses.
But it's also possible that the people who write (and read?) the stories here represent a trans culture that is being superseded by the one that I read about in the LGBT press and blogosphere (and to some extent, the mainstream media), and it is "transgender" (no "-ed") that will prevail.
Time will tell, though I don't know if I'll live long enough to see it.
P.S.: I read one story -- not here! -- where the author consistently used the word "transgender" as a verb to mean "transition," e.g., "she was in the process of transgendering." But the author was pretty clearly cis, and I have no idea where he got his background information.
Comments
Ever since I first heared the term.
There's been the argument over which is correct. Both have similar definitions:
For me, saying I am transgender, sounds incomplete. Saying, I am transgendered, just sounds better. It rolls of the tongue easily where as the former doesn't.
I put in the same class as the argument as to using the term gurl for transwomen an the pronoun hir rather than him or her. Just something for the nit pickers to argue about.
They can hash it out all the want. As much as I try to stick to dictionary definitions as much as I can, I have to live with the fact that dictionaries don't define the language. Usage defines it. Just look at the terms like "Bad" which as come to mean "Good". So what ever the trans-eletists can decide what ever they like, but the common folks, us writers will use what we are comfortable with. Remember, "Ain't ain't a word."
Hugs
Patricia
Happiness is being all dressed up and HAVING some place to go.
Semper in femineo gerunt
Ich bin eine Mann
Them or Me
Looking at another person, she is transgender not transgendered.
Discussing myself, I am transgendered almost as it's an after thought or past tense.
Each to their own and the word isn't old enough to have settled into a definitive except in the minds of individuals.
We can be sure of one thing, the British will be sure and misspell it. After hundreds of years they still don't know how to spell color as if adding a u in words would make the more something. colour, and sadly they do it to a whole bunch of words. One would think they gots no schooling. Just wait, they will put a u in transgender somewhere.
Hugs Asche
Oklahoma born and raised cowgirl
Make
Make it something with more grandeur...transgendeur, or better still: transgrandeur! Such possibilities!
Transgender sounds right to
Transgender sounds right to me. Transgendered sounds odd, as if something has been "done" in the past, a past tense or completed version of transgender. Like switch and switched.
Perhaps used like Mike transgendered and is now Michelle?
Leeanna
A Verb?
TBH I had never heard it used as a verb which makes me ovoid the use of the word "transgendered" which is the past tense.
Moreover, it is apparently a transitive verb which means somebody has done it to us. Who transgendered us?
Maryanne
Everybody's Doing It to Us
If there's someone below us in the pecking order, please tell me who it is?
Jill
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
Not a verb or a noun
Transgendered is neither a verb or a noun, but rather an adjective. I am transgendered. Where as Transgender could easily be a noun. She is transgender, while maybe correct English, it still doesn't feel comfortable rolling off my tongue. If my English lessons don't fail me, in that sentence "transgender" is a predicate nominative. A predicate nominative is always a noun or a pronoun.
To refer to myself as transgender would require me to make it a predicate nominative... I am a transgender. Even then, it's a bit stilted in my view.
Hugs
Patricia
Happiness is being all dressed up and HAVING some place to go.
Semper in femineo gerunt
Ich bin eine Mann
Not exactly
"Transgendered" is a verb form, a past tense form. Past tenses can be used as gerunds which are adjectives. In "she is transgender" transgender is an adjective, just like pretty in "she is pretty". It's being used as a predicate nominative, but that doesn't make it a noun or pronoun. It' sjust one of the ways adjectives are used in English.
"To transgender" would be a verb from which you could get "transgendered" but that is what is objected to by ome people. A verb is an action and requires an actor. And that is problematical.
Hugs,
Erin
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
Thanks Erin, I get my grammar
Thanks Erin, I get my grammar from here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lczHvB3Y9s
Leeanna
I can imagine it used as a
I can imagine it used as a threat. If you're not careful mate. Your gonna be transgendered!
Leeanna
Loosely
I kinda see transgender as a noun, and transgendered as a verb. Not a hard and fast rule, I usually write whatever seems correct at the time.
As for "gurl", "hir", and such, I see them as something the TERFs would love. Something that sets us apart from "real" women. Not me. I was a man (sorta) and now I'm a woman. There may be a few structural differences, but there are many thousands of women in the same boat, and we don't call them "gurls" or use "hir" for them.
"Life is not measured by the breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.”
George Carlin
I use "gurl" for people like
I use "gurl" for people like me, not in an offensive way. More like a wannabee girl. Not someone a surgeon has transgendered ,,,,yet.
Leeanna
IMHO
If you are living totally as a female then you are a girl/woman.* The difference is between non-op, pre-op, and post-op. To me, anyway.
*Some women's libbers prefer "wymin", to help differentiate between themselves and men; doing away with the hated term "men" in "women". Whatever floats your boat. I wouldn't use it outside of a story. Nor would I use the other three terms outside of a story.
That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.
"Life is not measured by the breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.”
George Carlin
Saoirse and Bruce
For many people, the actress Saoirse Ronan is definitely Irish, with a recognizable Dublin accent. But she was born in the Bronx, NY, so that means she's ... American? The point is that she's no more American than Bruce Willis is German (born in Idar-Oberstein, in the Rhineland).
Saoirse is Irish; Bruce is American.
Now to the Blog Topic: We don't add an 'ED' to the end of either nationality. Saoirse, American-born, didn't become "Irished". The German Willis boy didn't become "Americaned".
Another reason to avoid the term 'transgendered' is that an 'ED' suffix can mean a temporary state -- "He was blocked, until the gate was opened." Saoirse isn't temporarily Irished, either.
Among the quirks of English are plurals; we add an 'S' to a group, and add 'the' before a plural group that doesn't work with an 'S'. Therefore, we might refer to a team of Americans and a crowd of the Irish. To be more specific, we append words like 'people', 'men', 'women', etc., either directly to the word or following, and dispense with the plural suffix: Irishmen, American actors, and because the citizens of France like to be contrary: Frenchmen, yet French women!
As to that pesky 'S': Some people refer to 'the gays' and believe they can say 'the transgenders', but as with saying 'the Blacks', there is a hint of condescension, a whiff of sexism or racism, the sense of a superior individual referring to an inferior population. We can't use 'the transgender' collectively to refer to more than one -- as we do with 'the rich and the poor' -- as it would imply an individual rather than a group, yet another quirk of English plurals (which aren't Englished).
So just add the extra word or, if you like the portmanteau 'trans-' as in: "She's a lovely transgender woman, he's a rugged transman, and they are very much in love."
Saoirse & Bruce
Assuming your facts are correct, then I'd say Saoirse Ronan would depend on her nationality. If she identifys as an Irish citizen and carries an Irish passport then she's Irish. Same with Bruce Willis, if he identifys as a US citizen and carries a US passport then he is a US citizen. (I'm leaving out topics like naturalized citizens and dual citizenships. That's a whole other kettle of fish!)
In the interests of full disclosure I'm a US citizen, born in the US. But in my early-mid twenties I was just a signature away from becoming Norwegian, as I have a Norwegian heritage and close relatives in Norway. Having a close relative as national hero of the WW2 Norwegian Resistance helped grease the rails.
I try not to use "American". As has been pointed out by our neighbors to the south, there is a North America and South America, plus various islands. Why should the USA have exclusive claim to "America" or "American" when all those other countries are also in the American continents. "US citizen" is a bit awkward to use, but essentially correct.
"Life is not measured by the breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.”
George Carlin
I'm not trans anything.
Like Karen, I'm female, but a British subject seeing as we have a monarch. Our passports don't say that anymore unless they've changed them again. However, I prefer to think of myself as a person of this world and I feel that we should all, as citizens of this wonderful planet, be free to be who we wish and we should all accept who we are and who everyone else feels themselves to be. Labels are for parcels.
Angharad
We all have several labels ...
... even if we aren't parcels. I'm an engineer (or was); a cyclist (sometimes); was a sailor; was a motor cyclist. My sexuality is ... odd. Heterosexual, I guess. We are subjects but I'd rather be a citizen (republicans tend to be liberal (small l) in the UK, which must confuse the Trumpers.)
Erin described a gerund as an adjective - I thought they were defined as verbal nouns and were usually present participles eg
"I wasn't happy with his driving." 'driving' is a gerund. or "I wasn't happy with him driving" in this case not a gerund but part of the verb.
Not that it really matters, of course though there is a subtle difference in the meaning. I've noticed that US writers tend to get gerunds right much more often than UK writers - even if their spelling's a bit odd :)
R
You forgot
to add sweetie, after engineer.
Hugs.
Angharad
Thank you.
I didn't know 'sweetie' was a synonym for 'electronics' but I'll take it with gratitude :)
R
Ah, yes, nationalities …
So, what do you call them when a German meets another German? Is it Germans or Germen? And shouldn't there also be Gerwomen? ;-)
Easy
"So, what do you call them when a German meets another German?"
Easy! Two Germans! AFAIK, the words "Germen" and "Gerwomen" do not exist. As always, I could be wrong, shocking as that idea is! ;-)
They know they can survive
Germeni
Germeni
Leeanna
Labels are for food
Labels are used to separate... to divide one thing from another dissimilar thing. They are convenient tools to identify things, but using labels to identify people just serves to divide us.
I'm a woman. That lumps me in with half the population of the world... but it's the half I identify with. Men and women are in fact dissimilar though. (if they weren't, why would I have had so much angst about being forced to be one instead of the other?) That label then serves a purpose.
When people ask me what race I am, I say, "Yes." Why? Because trying to pigeonhole me into one race or another is trying to limit me... to ascribe to me certain expectations based on assumptions of how all Caucasians are like 'this', or all Asians are like 'that'. I am 1/4 German by ancestry, but the other 75% is a mixed bag including English, Irish, Spanish, Paiute, African, Asian, and a host of others... none of which make up who I am. I'm a woman by virtue of my inner nature. I'm a Nevadan by virtue of where I was born. I'm a Libertarian by virtue of my ideals. Everything else is just so much window dressing.
To be explicit though, Transgender is a descriptor of a state in which a person's inner identity and outer identity are at odds. I was Transgendered, but now I am not Transgender because I am legally and outwardly accepted as a woman and that matches what I feel like inside.
To answer the issue regarding the two, with or without -ed, their usage is entirely different and neither one is more correct than the other. Transgendered is not the past tense of Transgender any more than Gendered is the past tense of Gender. Something is Gendered if it has a Gender ascribed to it. Someone is Transgendered if they have a different gender ascribed to them than their biological sex.
The difference is academic though. No matter what we hash out here people will label us how they like... and there's nothing you, me, or anyone else can do about it. For my own purposes... I'm just a woman... and that's good enough for me!
Hugs,
Roberta
Thanks, RobertaME!
Great explaination! Much better than my poor attempt. :-(
"Life is not measured by the breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.”
George Carlin
Transgendered just sounds odd
Transgendered just sounds odd. Found this
Adjective
transgendered (comparative more transgendered, superlative most transgendered)
(now uncommon and often offensive and proscribed) Transgender; denoting or relating to a person whose gender identity does not correspond with their sex assigned at birth.
Usage notes
Until about 2000, transgendered was common both inside and outside transgender communities (Julia Serano notes its use in “classic” trans-related books such as Kate Bornstein’s Gender Outlaw and Leslie Feinberg’s Trans Liberation and compares it to the accepted term gendered),[2][3] but the term transgender has become more common and is preferred by many transgender people. Although some still accept transgendered,[4] dictionaries, style guides, and other authorities frequently proscribe it, often comparing its use to the hypothetical use of lesbianed in place of lesbian
Leeanna
Ingorance is bliss
Whoever wrote that both has a poor understanding of the origin of the terms and is a bit arrogant in their presumption. Transgender is not even the same kind of word as lesbian and their roots are dissimilar, so comparing the two shows both ignorance of the words themselves and their origins.
Lesbian is from Latin Lesbius, from Greek lesbios meaning "of Lesbos" in reference to the Greek island and dates back to at least the 1590s.
Transgender is a portmanteau from Latin trans (prep.) "across, over, beyond," and from Old French gendre, genre "kind, species; character; gender" and didn't exist as a word until 1974.
Furthermore, "gendered" has had its own meaning for centuries, whereas "lesbianed" is a nonsense word like "boxen". (trying to make a plural of the word "box" by applying the same pluralization of the word "ox" as "oxen")
While both lesbian and transgender can be used as an adjective ("a lesbian woman" or "a transgender woman") or as a noun ("I'm a lesbian" or "I'm transgender") and are used to describe aspects of a person, their usage is dictated by their word origins. (just as the usage of "box" and its plural "boxes" is dictated by its origin and not the origin and usage of the word "ox") Transgendered is the combination of "trans" and "gendered" both valid words with their own definitions. Gendered is when a gender is ascribed to a noun... such as the gendered variance of fiancé and fiancée. (the former being a man engaged to be married and the latter an engaged woman) English doesn't have many gendered words, (husband/wife and actor/actress are a few) but plenty of things we describe in English can be said to be gendered. (such as the tradition of referring to ships as "she" and "her", thus making them gendered by usage)
Saying that transgendered is offensive smacks of "cis-splaining"... if you'll pardon the expression... non-transgendered people trying to tell us how we should refer to ourselves and what we should and shouldn't find offensive. (I highly doubt the person that wrote that was even TG) The sentence, "I am gendered." is in no way offensive. It's simply stating that you in fact have a gender ascription, be that male or female. (and saying it is offensive because everyone has a gender is insulting to agender people) Likewise, "I am transgendered." is simply stating that you have a gender ascription that is different from your biological sex. Can anyone explain how that can be seen as offensive?
Just trying to turn the spotlight on a muddled issue.
Hugs,
Roberta
Lesbianed does sound silly it
Lesbianed does sound silly it's like gayed or homosexualed, can't remember where I found it.
Leeanna
Then there's that old lesbian rockabilly tune
I forget who it's by, I only heard it once on the car radio at 2 a.m.
on highway 50 way out past Lake Silencio, out where you're so far
from anything but rattlers and coyotes that theradio signal drifts
strangely + cuts in and out, and you start seeing things,
impossible things, out the corner of your eye...
You lesbianned me it made me scream and shout
I lesbianned you until my tongue fell out
Come on pretty baby and lez me one more time
Somethin feels this good then it sure can't be no crime
We lesbianed once, we lesbianed twice
We melted the fire and we put out the ice
Come on little mama
and lez be on our way...
"Government will only recognize 2 genders, male + female,
as assigned at birth-" (In his own words:)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1lugbpMKDU
It's all getting so rarified
the arguments are becoming silly. Also, I'm transgender is not a noun it's an adjective describing I. Anyway, I'll let you all continue splitting hairs while I deal with real-life situations.
Angharad