I may be on the early side of that particular designation, but I'm pretty sure I qualify, right? Born in the late '80s, some college but no degree, blah de blah. Yep.
So here's the deal. I've spent the last 3 months looking for a new job. I've applied for quite a few, as a receptionist, at call centers, more than a few sales positions from Best Buy to Target... all in all, I've sent out probably 10 or 12 resumes/applications.
I've gotten a call back on all of 2, and an interview out of only 1.
The thing is, I really don't think I have unreasonable expectations. 32+ hours a week in a climate-controlled environment are really my only two requirements, and all of the work above is stuff I have experience in to a greater or lesser degree. So what's the problem, and why am I not good enough to get an answer back?
It's frustrating looking for a job. I can't imagine what it would be like to do what I'm trying to do even 15 years ago, looking for a job in another town without uprooting myself first. It's one of the great things about the modern day, the ease the internet grants us in looking for stuff like this. Unfortunately, that ease of access has a critical downside, and that's that such ease of spreading the availability of openings combined with the crap state of the economy combined with how awful retirement benefits are for most people means that all that experience I have means two things.
Diddly.
Squat.
I would posit that there is nothing -- NOTHING -- more disheartening than looking through want ads for entry-level or low-experience jobs and seeing that most employers are tacking on requirements like "5+ years experience necessary" or 2-3 years in multiple fields to something as simple as a stocking position. I don't blame them for wanting experience if possible, but since when does a front desk clerk position at a hotel require experience with MS Word/Excel/Powerpoint, 2 years of sales experience, and a degree in economics? Betcha can't guess what the only one of those is that's actually an exaggeration.
I'm 30 years old. I've spent 9 of the last 10 years employed, and every employer I've had -- EVERY ONE -- has told me all I'd have to do is ask and they'd let me back immediately. I've changed jobs twice in that time, and both times for the same reason: because what I was doing was a dead end that would never see me able to move up or onward. Heck, I've been living with family the past 5 years thanks to the fact that once the price of fuel and insurance are added into the equation I can't even make enough money to afford my own place in any of the jobs that will hire me.
So, here I am. I'm having to look as much as 2 hours' drive away from where I am just to find something that isn't fast food because the only option I have to improve my situation is to find something that pays enough to get me on my own feet. My state's minimum wage is up to 8.50 an hour now, but it still takes a minimum of 10 or so in a full-time position before you can survive on your own thanks to the costs of housing that isn't a meth lab and the rural nature of where I live.
None of this even touches on the fact I still haven't started transition, and the cost of that isn't something I even want to consider right now.
Sorry for the "woe is me" bit, it's just... it's frustrating, and demoralizing, and I know there are plenty of people who have it worse but that hardly makes me feel any better about my own position. I know people always tell you that life is pain, life is suffering, and all that, but really, what's the point of life if not to try and seek happiness? What's the point of living if everything in your existence is engineered toward seeing you fail?
I have a lot of flaws. I lack discipline, I have a hard time motivating myself on personal projects and I tend to procrastinate on things. I'm wishy-washy, and a bit of a loner. But that's all my personal life. I've proven myself a good employee time and again; I just wish it meant anything in this world of disposable lives we exist in.
Melanie E.
Comments
Job adverts
I don't know if it's the same where you are, but over here in Blighty some companies/organisations are forced to advertise all jobs, even if an internal candidate is lined up for it (i.e. career progression). It's worth looking closely at the job and person specifications to see if there are odd requirements that you wouldn't expect. In which case the chances are the advert has been tailored to a specific individual.
Are you really 'selling yourself'?
What are you doing to make your application stand out from the rest of the applications that an employer will receive?
I'd look at two things.
1) Getting a professional Resume writer to make your CV a lot better.
2) Before sending the resume, I'd research the company you are applying for and tailor your CV specifically for them. What can you bring to the job that others can't?
As for the extra years experience stuff. I found that was often added by the recruitment agencies. One position I went for was for working on Unix Servers yet the mandatory requirements were for 5+ years of Windows 7. This was 9 months after Microsoft released Windows 7. What I'm saying is think about those requirements. Are they really essential for the job you are applying for?
If they aren't then ignore them.
I hope your job hunting goes well.
Samantha
that sort of requiment does play a purpose
to give them a quick and easy excuse to cull CVs and get the pile of applicants down to size
they don't want to look through several hundred/thousand applications, they'll do a 'find' for each or the "requirements" and chuck out all the CVs that don't have it on
Is your resume computer optimised?
The reality today is that Resumes are filtered by computer algorithms before ever reaching a human.
You have to play 'buzzword bingo' and overload your pitch with trigger keywords. These include (For example):
etc.
Having interviewed young people who have had glittering resumes but fell at the first hurdle of practical experience I have been on the other side (NOTE avoid the phrase 'practical experience' - that triggers warnings of being a manual worker/burger flipper).
The 20 somethings you are up against understand this. Equally your Linkedin and Facebook profiles will be scanned and analysed to cross check facts and identify anomalies. However NOT having a social media presence will raise a red flag as well.
Persephone
Non sum qualis eram
So damned if you do have a
So damned if you do have a facebook account and post freely, damned if you don't have one in favor of your privacy. Of course the ideal candidate is a indian descent, african american, muslim female with 10 years experience who is 22 on top of having a master's and is fluent in at least three languages. If you are a white guy (pre anything), your resume is probably first to be tossed, last to be looked at seriously.
Note what I may be joking about above for requirements for a posistion.
Job Hunting
Don't worry about the woe is me thing. I know what it is like to send your resume out and never get anything back because companies either stop looking when they choose a few people ahead of you or have to advertise the job for someone inside to slide into the position. The other things is most employers have no idea what someone with IT skills are suppose to do or can do. Most of them are clueless. As for Microsoft skills, most of what companies use their employees can spend fifteen minutes of their lunch time and watch a you tube video on how to do that particular task.
What they are really looking for are people not asking a lot for money for the position or who are retired and don't have to pay that person a lot of money. Another thing is you have to look for key words in the posting and put those key words in your resume. The software companies use to scan your resume look for those words. Which I hate to save are set by people who have no idea what IT is all about.
As for traveling distance, if the distance is going to eat into what you bring home and maintenance of your car. Than the job isn't worth taking. Companies also use this tactic to justify hiring foreigners as well. I've seen a lawn care company post a job ad in November and say they couldn't get people they needed. It seems the older you get hurts you as well. 30 yrs of age shouldn't be a big deal, but who knows.
If there's a book that you want to read, but it hasn't been written yet, then you must write it.”
― Toni Morrison
In almost any position with any company.......
Computer skills are a requirement. It always amazes me in this day and age how many people I interview who are not familiar with Excel - how many are not even capable of creating a simple spreadsheet. A requirement for familiarity with the Microsoft Office Suite is not much to ask for.
There is however an unreasonable expectation among many hiring managers. The simple requirement for a college degree for clerical positions, or even worse for positions which are essentially non-skilled is ridiculous. I have had many employees, both college grads and non-college grads, and I find that more often than not the possession of a degree does not make anyone a better worker, more intelligent, or a better person.
Yes, in some positions there is a requirement for specific knowledge gained through a degree - but that is not the case quite often. The possession of a degree is used to gauge whether or not a person has the resolve to apply themselves for the time required to graduate - but even that is often meaningless.
My primary suggestion follows one given above - take a good hard look at your resume. A resume and cover letter are usually your only chance to get your foot in the door, so creating a good resume is vital. Tailor your cover letter to stress those skills and experiences you possess which are most appropriate to the position you are applying for. Read the job description carefully; it will list the desired skill set and the required qualifications. Stress those you have.
And never be afraid to apply for a job for which you may not be the perfect fit - quite often, no one has all of the desired qualifications and you may still be the best option the hiring manager has.
And never give up.
D
D. Eden
“Hier stehe ich; ich kann nicht anders. Gott helfe mir.”
Dum Vivimus, Vivamus
Ouch
I could say something snarky about how great America is again, but what you described started before Donald came ito power and will be here long after he leaves.
You worked for me and I found your work to be terrific. If you want me to send you a letter of recommendation, please let me know by PM with your address.
It's not about you.
Jill
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
the only advice I can give
If you are fit and healthy?
Go get a job in an apprentice in a good trade-craft, ONE that can't be sent to India or Asia!
I recommend electrician and MAKE sure it's UNION or nothing with the full 5 year apprenticeship with NECA. You get paid to learn and at the end you get over 80k US per year MINIMUM! plus retirement and medical!
And I guarantee you that job will never leave the USA, unless there is no USA?
Ask best buy to beat that!
the work is hard and sometimes dangerous, but it pays very very well! We have members that get well over 100$per hour and I am not joking!
Proud member of the Whateley Academy Drow clan/collective
trades.
She's probably to old to apprentice. Been there, done that. tried getting into the IBEW (International Brotherhood of Electrical workers) back in the great recession of the 90's after being let go from a coal company I worked for that shut down. I was in my early 30's After having been 7 years in the Army and worked for said coal company for 5 years as a Plant operator. even had some technical college to, just no degree. Walked into the Union hall to sign up and some grizzled old bugger basically told me I was to old to apprentice. not that they were taking on anyone at the time anyway. had a rough patch, moved back in with my parents, sold off basically everything I had that was worth anything, and eventually declared bankruptcy.
What I did do in the end was sign up to work at Manpower, a temp service that pimps out it's workers to local businesses needed temp help. Here is a little secret, employers use temp services to pre-screen employees, they usually have you on a 3 month contract, if you work that out, many times you will be asked to stay. I've worked since 1999 at my current job after being hired through a temp service.
Your comment made me curious...
So I did some searching... It appears that as the recession continued to deepen, the Unions and trade schools were forced to adapt to older adults needing to reorient themselves in completely new careers. It sounds like your mess happened not terribly long before the shift started, but today, they'll take people of any age as long as they can pass the tests and do the work...
Now I'm actually considering trying this myself... I need to find SOMETHING that can get me on my feet, just like the OP, and whilst becoming an Electrician (the best fit for me in the trades I think) is far from my dream career, it would certainly provide forward momentum if I can just make it in and keep going long enough to make it work. Once I have my Journeyman, I could continue in the trade for as long as I need to to afford to get the skills in areas that really interest me... And even after, it could be something nice to have to the side if I need it. The main things are that I need to get out of the rut I'm in, which is mostly of my own making. I made a real hash of my life before figuring out why I kept sabotaging myself, and now I'm struggling so much that it's hard to imagine any real way out.
EDITED IN PS:
As a side note, according to what I'm finding online, presenting as female to start with may actually be of benefit as well. Just keeping in mind that you're there to work, not look nice.
Abigail Drew.
Ah, those dreaded 'tests'
Every so called 'apitude' test I ever took, I failed. According to them I was totally unsuited to working as a software developer.
I look back now and smile and think of what I achieved in a career that apparently I was totally unsuited for.
If you are faced with sometimes stupid tests, my advice is to smile sweetly, take the test and move on to another opportunity.
IMHO, any employer who relies even more than 20% on test results is sure to lose talented people who could have made a difference to their business.
Samantha
Test Are the Bunk
In 1970 I took a test as part of applying for a job to sell life insurance. The test showed that I had very low aptitude for sales. Although I was still offered the position I declined due to the lack of faith they displayed in stating that they were making an exception because of how high I scored on the intelligence part of the test.
Three years later I was the top salesman in the nation for another insurance company. For the next five decades I used my sales skills to produce sales results that ranked in the top 1 or 2% for a variety of large companies. This last year, my 47th in the business I was a top 1% producer for Travelers.
Personality profiles and intelligence tests are often meaningless.
Tests say I'm a genius. Life tells me I'm just barely able to get through the day.
All those tests are meant to allow companies to obfuscate their selection process to allow them to legally discriminate.
Jill
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
I agree about aptitude tests.
I agree about aptitude tests. However, the information I'm finding about trades union schools is that they just do basic skills tests. If you're smart enough to do some basic algebra, clever enough not to get yourself or those nearby killed from totally brain dead stunts, and strong enough to do the manual labor part of the job, you pass these tests. Obviously there's still some kind of selection going on, there's no way they can take all the applicants to these programs... But it's not testing based beyond ensuring they don't take in any one completely ill suited. It's certainly not based on "aptitude" testing bullshit.
On the intelligence part of the basic testing, I should sail by, considering I've had some calculus, stats, and linear algebra, which is WELL beyond basic algebra. On the cleverness part, well, anyone that dumb definitely shouldn't be anywhere near electricity. The strength is the one area I might struggle on.
This is by no means decided for me, just to be clear. But I'm certainly starting to consider it an option. It's certainly less desperate than a lot of other desperate things I might try. I'm also investigating returning to school... But it'd have to be an online school and with a more DIY focus, not any of the conventional lecture shit, but I also just can't do the whole dorm thing either. All the research I've done shows that transgender students are seldom treated as the gender they identify as, or the gender they were assigned, but othered. I can't handle that on top of an aggressive course load. Even worse would be a school that didn't even acknowledge me at all, but I just simply wouldn't apply to any of those. I'd still have the problem of returning to work after though, which would still be hard, even with a more complete education. That's what's most appealing about trades I guess, you're guaranteed experience as part of the education, and experience is what gets you a job. It also helps of course that instead of paying for a quality education, you get paid to learn. Yes, I realize what's actually happening is that they're paying you to do the shit work and teaching you as well and that's why you're only getting paid a fraction of what you'd earn once you have a journeymans. It's still an attractive offer for someone in a shitty situation.
Abigail Drew.
Don't get involved with Leccy
if you are colour blind.
That is one test that I agree with.
Yes, I did wire up a 3ph supply wrongly once. It went bang but no one was injured apart from by all the laughing that was going on by everyone else. I found out that it was an apprentice rite of passage. They'd wired the other end up wrong and my end was correctly wired. Got a huge shock (not electrical) when the thing I'd wired up went bang. Never did it again. I learned to always check that the other end had been wired correctly first. {I was only 16 at the time.}
Samantha
LOL!
Important lessons learned eh? You stated above that you've been in programming, and now that you did the trades thing as well? How hard was it to transition into programming from being an electrician? Not that programming is where I think I'd ultimately want to end up, but any experience is worth listening to, especially an experience that involves using the trades as a stepping stone, since that's definitely where I'd go with it.
Besides strength, I'm also concerned because I'm not a very fast worker. I'm thorough and meticulous, but that is seldom of benefit in anything if you can't also remain fast doing it. Which I can't... I just don't seem to have a capacity to memorize to a point of just doing things from reflex, I have to think about everything.
Abigail Drew.
job struggles
I am totally with you and job hunting these days. huggles !
Background and Credit are too
You can add background and credit to that list as well. I understand the reason why companies do these things. However, you shouldn't hold it against someone who has paid the price and the charges were a small fine.
Companies in the United States are supposed to follow the rules about using a persons background against them by the Faircredit act that says you can't do that, but they do any way.
Also, companies should be force to tell you why they didn't hire, instead of saying we found someone more qualified than you.
If there's a book that you want to read, but it hasn't been written yet, then you must write it.”
― Toni Morrison
Job Searching is stressful time.....
I find job searching extremely stressful, it is something that I never had to do until the last few years, being an O/O truck driver since I got out of the Navy for close to 20 years.
Now due to personal and medical reason, I can no longer drive semi. So I am looking for a position and do not have a lot of experience or references do to my old line of work.
But on the good news side of things after 6 months, I have one last meet and greet, with a program manager this week.
Hopefully I will get a job offer afterwards.
RL Hearn
The increase in experience requirements are insane a lot
because so many companies have gone belly up or downsized in the last 15 years, they have increased the requirements at many companies for non-intern positions. Before the computer gaming bust in the early 2000 era, all the other large game makers increased the requirements for starting positions because they the jobs available and were able to be picky. the same has happened with retailers of all kinds and almost every company type. They want not only cull college degrees but masters or PhD even, they want so many years of experience, they want you already trained to use software that the industry uses, etc...
The starting positions are no longer really beginner positions, they are basically low pay for people who used to make a lot more doing a higher level job at another company. Since these people are out of work its a take it or leave it offers, where they have you come in and do the work you used to but not get payed for that level of work.
This will eventually come to bight these companies in the rear end if they do not wake up. It is sad that in most companies today you an not start at the bottom and work your way up the ladder anymore. They want to bring you in work you practically to death then when you are burned out, they will let you go and hire another fresh workhorse to repeat the process.
"Cortana is watching you!"
Or...
They want to bring you in work you practically to death then when you are burned out, they will let you go and hire another fresh workhorse to repeat the process.
OR
They will send your job to India where they will screw it up even more. :)
I found out recently that since I retired last year my old team has been let go and everything sent to India. I only found out after one of my old customers emailed me with a question. The level of service they now get is so bad that it in now jeopardising future work. So much for the Bean Counters cutting costs to make more money. That is no good if the customers go elsewhere.... Doh!
My advice is get a job, make yourself indispensible and keep your head down. If the plans that the likes of Amazon, Google and Elon Musk have come to fruition (AI and Robots taking the place of people), there could be around 30% of people uneemployed within 10 years. And it will only get worse.
Samantha.
the white collar jobs are already in the crosshairs.
All those money management firms are now looking at replacing there traders and analysts with A.I., a lot easier for the board to rake in bigger bonuses if they do not have to pay a human to do the higher dollar work, more than the blue collar work in house even. they are already in testing at some of the firms in simulations to see who makes more money and faster, the A.I. or humans. right now it is tipping in favor of A.I. they don't sleep, eat, have to use the restroom to relieve them selves or need sleep. The other side benefits no bonuses, no 401k, no medical insurance, no income tax.
But the government is already working on a plan for that too, they are going to put a tax on A.I.'s that will make up for the lost human worker income taxes.
"Cortana is watching you!"
jobs
Gone are the days when if you could do the job you got the job. Nowadays you need a piece of paper saying you know the theory learned in a classroom. Those people are what I call " Educated Idiots" employ the a person that can actually do the job every time. Paper Qualifications are not worth the paper they are written on. Never met any one yet that do manual labour jobs with a piece of paper. Jobs that require manual labour involve for the main having to think outside the box, something that todays young cannot manage without their cell phones or tablets.
After serving 23 years in the British Army as a Combat Medical Technician I was too old to go into nursing at the age of 40 so I went working for agencies eventually doing long distance Class 1 driving until 2010 when I was laid off at the age of 57 then I was constantly told by employers I was too old yet there wasn't a truck I couldn't drive no matter what the weather conditions, after being unemployed for a couple of years I now manage a Caravan and Camping site and guess what ? I don't have any paper qualifications.
jacqui
Jaqui