A question for everyone:
I've recently been having discussions about the lengths of
stories, which I thought might be nice to bring out into the
group as a whole. The question is, how long should the post
be for a full novel; or, how would you like it served?
Do you prefer to have it all in one lump, so that
so that you can download and read at our leisure?
Do you prefer to have it in a few, three to six parts,
so that you can download or read on line more manageably?
Or, given how much we all like serials, do you much prefer
to keep up with one, and comment, if you comment, on each
smaller part?
I’m told by Erin, that so few people log in with Dialup these days,
that the speed issue had largely gone by the board. I would like
to know what you think.
Sarah Lynn Morgan
Comments
Size definitely does matter!
Just to be fair, I will answer my own question first.
I like the longer works, both as a reader, and as a posting author.
As a reader, I like stories that I can stick with for a while.
As an author, I would much prefer to give a whole story over to the
reader, and then settle for just a few comments on the whole.
Even though it may take longer, to me it seems better to save the
story, and read as I find the time.
Serials, which I like, really need to be written differently than a
novel. The breaks need to be managed to entice, and yet to also
satisfy the reader. We only have to look at a few of the wonderful
authors we have here now doing so, to see just how it should be done.
Now, I very much expect to hear opinions that I've never thought of!
I hope so, anyway.
Sarah Lynn Morgan.
Thank's Everyone, for all the great comments!
Friends:
I wanted to thank you all for taking your valuable time,
and answering my question. I am grateful, because I found
the answers both informative and edifying.
Thank you,
Part of why I like serials
Is that I am a child of the Sesame Street age. That is, the whole point was that since people didn't have long attention spans, you threw tiny bits at them.
Also, a serial I can read between clients and not have to worry about "finding my place" when I go back.
'n I thought
it was just my spell binding scribbles! 8(
Angharad 8(
Angharad
Attention Deficit Disorder
To me one lump sum is ideal. I prefer stories that are not bits and pieces or strung out for umpty squat chapters. I have ADHD and my attention span is very limited. I am one of those who would have to read the begining of the serial and reread as it got longer. Does that mean people shouldn't write as they feel, no.
I'll stick to what I can handle, write accordingly and I am sure some will be glad there are short tid bits to nibble on between the serial stories.
For me the serials make no sense. Not every one who starts a serial finishes their story. I would like to see a section that gives the readers and co-authors a chance to add things to an unfinished story. That is, one that has several chapters but suddenly for a length of time no additions have been made.
I'd like to see a story where each author is allowed to write one paragraph to make the story unique.
Just my thoughts, nothing written in stone.
Jill Micayla
May you have a wonderful today and a better tomorrow
Jill Micayla
Be kinder than necessary,Because everyone you meet
Is fighting some kind of battle.
Delicious Anticipation
I prefer serials—Sarah Lynn knows this—because:–
1) I like small mouthfuls so my eyes don't go all squiffy.
2) You get that increadible anticipation of "What's going to Happen next?" It's like the old Saturday morning cinema "Can our heroine escape from the clutches of the evil baron?" The cliff hanger is a well-known literary tool beloved of the likes of Angharad and Kayleigh.
3) Small bites can be savoured and you don't feel you have to rush to find out the end, so episodes actually give the writer a better deal that a huge long posting that you sit all day reading, except you haven't the time and you have to go and cook the dinner and then you can't find where you got up to and you end up so frustrated and irritated that you forget about the whole thing! They just cause me to fall off my trolley.
Give me short episodes (chapters) every time so I can savour that delicious anticipation.
Gabi
Gabi.
all, or nothing at all - maybe.
Must say that I prefer reading complete stories, or those comprising a few large instalments. Small bits of other people's stories are likely to get jumbled up, with the stuff that tumbles. There's also the problem of coming late to a serial presents the daunting prospects of reading through tens of instalments.
Having tentatively started a serial of my own this week, I admire the ability to plot in short bursts and keep it interesting. I hit a point today in a standalone story that was a possible chapter break, and had to fight the urge to post it. It would have been nice to have feedback on it, but I want to give myself the opportunity for revision, and as it 7000 or so words aren't going to be particularly action packed, it'll best read in its entirety.
I like it big
a nice big chunk of a story to savor and enjoy. To wrap my mind around. Serials are nice, some are very nice indeed, but to really satisfy my need I wallow in the overpowering massiveness of a long, thorough, prolonged, errr, read.
I sometimes take a number of chapters in a favorite serial, make them into a bigger chunk and (re)read it then. I don't know if this is against BC policy but let me assure you this is only for my personal pleasure. ( Oh yeah )
There are some exceptions though, like EAFOAB which is becoming way to big even for my tastes to handle in ahh one piece. But on the other hand, it's so nicely consistently published it's almost as one very large read with a lovely long slow rhythm.
Jo-Anne
Size isn't really the issue
I have waded in on this issue before and judging from the response, I am seemingly in the minority. While I largely prefer stories all in one lump, I can take (and enjoy) serials as well, just so they don't go on forever. However, when things get beyond the 15th or 20th episode, that (in my humble opinion) gets a little ridiculous. I take nothing away from the talent or writing skills of authors who post unending chapters, but reading in this fashion is simply not for me. It's just annoying. I wouldn't wade through a good book at the rate of one page a day and I certainly won't attempt the analogous here for stories that have chapter after chapter after chapter...
Shenandoah
Long for me too except ...
... that I've become quite addicted to the the Welsh soaps as well as the American one. However I really prefer meaty reads like 'Unfinished Symphony' which I was fortunate enough to be fed in 2 substantial lumps by Kelly Ann.
My own longer story (Who hates Lola?) was posted in 6 parts for convenience, and because Erin recommended I do it that way, but it was complete and the parts were posted in short order. I'm normally wary of serials because all to often they just stop. I make an exception for what I'll call soaps - particularly Angharad's 'Easy ...' because they're as much an adventure for the writer as for we readers.
Geoff
Short stories
I don't read serials and avoid stories presented in chapters unless they are complete and not too long.
I am a big fan of short stories, ones I can read in about a half an hour. Years of reading Analog and Science fiction & Fantasy magazines gave me an appreciation of the short story form.
I didn't read the continuing stories in the magazines either! :)
Mr. Ram
Is Analog SF ...
... still published? I used to get it years ago when John W Campbell was the editor but I haven't seen it in newsagents in the UK since Big Ben was a wristwatch.
Geoff
College sized responses do matter.
When I was in college, I wandered back into some stacks in the library,
and I found this amazing collection of SF magazines. It was my worst
quarter, if I remember, because my mom was very sick, and every chance
I had to get away, I'd find myself reading 'Swamp Women of Venus."
So Geoff, Mr. Ram... 'Tail high Brother'
(story about lizard men, keep your tail from getting stepped on.)
I really appreciate all the responses. I hope to hear a lot more.
Analog
Oh yeah! It has a website too!
http://www.analogsf.com/0803/issue_03.shtml
Warning if you have dial-up, it's a BIG page!
Mr. Ram
Mile markers are appreciated
I was at a meeting at work, and the person presiding said, "Are there any questions?"
I wanted to ask, "What will happen to Christina Chase?" but of course I didn't.
Serials are wonderful. The anxiety of wondering how it will come out.
I have the last Harry Potter by my bed. I haven't opened it. I want to
know what happens, but I don't want it to end.
Sometimes I think about where the "Kelly Girl" story could go...
You can't do that with something that began and then ended.
But anyway... if a story is long, I like to see mile markers.
Your "Emily," for example, is nicely broken up into chapters,
so it makes it easy to stop and come back.
I have a broadband connection, but I don't have unlimited reading time.
Whatever I read, I read in little pieces.
Kaleigh Way
Okay, you asked for it ...
It's not how big it is, it's where you stick it. -- Ebenezer Black Adder in A Black Adder Christmas Carol--
Size doesn't matter -- no snickers -- BUT it needs to keep my attnetion and be readable. This comming from Mr. Comma Impared. Huge paragraphs make it very hard to read even when printed. The eye simply wanders.
Serials are nice because if done right they give you a logical point to rest but the author need to make them self-contained or have complete story arcs so there are definite end points to the story -- guilty of violating those too.
I like clearly laid out, interesting stories that holds my attention. The plot can be simple or complex as long as it is done well. Long stories allow you to really know the charcters, short stories often are more intense. But then sustaining that intensity for hundreds of pages is difficult and could wear out the reader emotionally.
John in Wauwatosa
P.S That was one of the most misleading topic headers I ever read. I'm still laughing. Gongrads Sara Lynn!
John in Wauwatosa
As a person that Prints stories out to read
Size definitely matters. If a new story is over 25 printed pages, I may take a pass on it or wait and forget to get back to it. If it's broken into long chapters, then I can read the 1st one and decide from that if I want to print out and read the rest of it.
Comments also will help me decide whether to read a long story or not...the one from last week "Samantha" I think it was was 50 pages to print but had an amazing amount of positive comments.
Huggles!!
Alexis
I'm a fan of big chunks
I like to have my stories all at once or large chunks if the authors has to break it up. My big rational for this is when i get into a story I don't stop until the end. Unless I'm forced to by troublesome things like sleep and university , but that just my preference. I'm good with lots of broken up chapters as well (all though even then i normal just wait until the series is done and then combine all the chapter together into one master copy and read from that)
As I said Before
I do not like serials. Since I first said that I discovered why. I have a version of ADD, probably ADHD which makes me:
1. bored easisly.
2. distracted easily.
3. read stories like "Slaughterhouse Five" by J. Vonegot was written.
That is: part 1 first, part 3 second, part 7 next, part 2 after
that...
or
4. get so engrosed in the story that I don't want to stop. A serial
tends to make that difficult.
As to length:
Most excellent stories are long because there is more character and plot development. There are some great very short stories, such as Lanie Lee's "SRU: Nightlight."
Therefor a story should be as long as it needs to be.
shalimar
just how big is big?
I keep hearing that people want bigger chunks...... How big? 5000 word chunks, 10,000 word chunks? 69,395 word chunks? what size is appropriate?
I have been trying to keep with 3,000 - 5,000 word chapters for Camp K. Primarily because that is about as much decent writing I can handle in a week's time. Would you rather that I double or triple up the chapters? and have 2-4 weeks between posts? or would you be happy with the 3,000 words per week?
Yes, Camp Kumoni is going on a Hiatus, but it is Definately NOT over. I have most of the major plot point planned out and timed out through it's conclusion. It is just getting there that has been the trip. I have found in doing this story, compared to other authors, that I like writing detail...... maybe too much detail, as I have only writen one week of Camp Kumoni in 27 chapters.
Some of you have stated before that you don't like to or won't read chaptered stories.... Mr. Ram..... I feel sorry for you. you miss out on some spectacular writing here. like someone famous once said. "It's not where you are going, but how you get there that counts". or something like that. I view a lot of the stories here as Excellent trips, fantastic voyages, whether or not we ever get to the end.
A.A.
I agree with Anistasia
I'd always be afraid to eliminate any category, because let's
face it--that's where you find some real gems--right where
you least expected.
Anastasia, my biggest novel is 97,000 It’s two good books.
I'm finishing up the third, in total, it would be three
parts for sure at around 120K. I usually divide in threes.
However, I also subdivide to give folks a break; and because
that's the way the story writes itself!
I'd love to hear a little more about what you like to
read, to add to what you've told us about writing.
Also:
I've gotten several responses via PM telling me that Should
just post what I want. LOL. I promise, that I will do just
that.
That is not what this is about really. It's more about what
people actually prefer. We devour these wonderful serials,
while posting they are too short. We praise longer stories for
their character development and say we don't have time. The
truth is, that the thing that makes this place is that we have the
best of both worlds right here. Which means, that not only is
this a great place to read, but it's also a great place to ask
more telling questions about what we like in each genera.
Thank you folks, really. It is so edifying to me to realize
those longer stories might be better in three parts. It's also
educational to realize that even serials will be best received
with good character development. It's comforting to know that
there is a home for both here.
I am certain that the next time I’m working on one of my
Stories, all of these comments will hardly be far from my mind.
I’m sure that will make it a better effort all the way around.
Please, anyone with an opinion is invited. It's all great stuff.
What I like to read?
Sarah you asked, or put forth.......
I'd love to hear a little more about what you like to
read, to add to what you've told us about writing.
I, like a lot of others, like variety....... My biggest downfall, is that I can't sit down and write 1000-1500 words in a day, every day like Angharad. I have to work at my writing..... Therefore I have found it difficult to find a lot of time to read a lot of stories here, especially with how many are posted daily lately. So I tend to have to be picky in what I read. I read stories or segments that are under 6,000 words. Much more than that and I can't keep up in Real Life.
I like character development. I like seeing a character confronted with a problem and having to work it out. and in doing so, find something out about themselves. I like characters that evolve, that become much deeper, more complex. I don't have to agree with where a story is going, to like it either. there are a lot out there that go in directions that I don't care for, but they are well written, so I read on.
Some of my favorite works here are, ( I wont remember them all. Sorry): I'm with the Band(which is what first brought me here) along with Melanie Brown's Reluctant series(found on Sapphire). Being Christine Chase, Charlotte's Tale, Rules are Rules, Accidental Magic, Sk8r Grrls, College girl/Sorority Boy, Mean Girls, Drabble....... there are many others that i have tried, or have on the back burner to try when I get a chance. but over all, I like something that delves in to the character, and that I can read in 20 minutes or less at a time.
Does that help?
A.A.
What's good for you?
So far the sizes have been fairly nebulous - "I like long" or "I like shorter". Does anybody have some specifics? Erin has the following sizes as keywords: 500-7500 is a Short Story; 7,500-17,500 is a Novelette, and larger than that is a Novel. Currently my last two parts (chapters?) of KARI! are 4,400 and 3,600 words respectively. By contrast, the following story (Twins Book 3) is a bit over 18,000 words already. I expect to at least double the word count of KARI! Pts 3 & 4 by the time I finally finish; and T-3 may grow by at least 3,000-4,000 words by the time its done.
I know I'm a bit put off by the larger stories I see posted. I can get through a short story fairly easily but when I get to the novelette size I have to budget time to read them. So I'm considering keeping each part or chapter at around the 6,000 to 7,500 word range. Does that sound like a reasonable size to keep those who prefer longer parts happy?
Karen J.
PS: I see A.A. has the same questions as me, so help us both, please!
"Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose"
Janis Joplin
“When a clown moves into a palace, he doesn’t become a king. The palace becomes a circus.” - Turkish Proverb
Length issues
Stop that. You know I meant the stories. I would really prefer to get the whole thing at once, so I can read it at my leisure. I recently found a couple buried on the drive that are listed on the back corner area. Totally forgot about them. I save everything off and assemble them into documents anyway, and read as I can. Of course, this would not work with Camp Kumoni, or Easy as Falling off a Bike, or so many of the others that are posted. There are several stories that I have not even started yet, but have saved and will get to them as I can. They may even be complete by then. Or they may never be finished and I have not started a good story that is left hanging that way. It might be helpful, if the authors stated something up front, as several have done recently, to let us know that the story is complete, or not, but is being broken for ease and is posted daily etc, as David's story was done. Kumoni may be a bit different, as so much was done before being posted, with timely postings done, but we are now on hiatus with it. Thats up to the author, and I respect that. So it can go either way.
Huh?
"Stop that. You know I meant the stories."
I don't see where you have commented elsewhere in this discussion, so I'm not sure what to make of this.
KJT
"Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose"
Janis Joplin
“When a clown moves into a palace, he doesn’t become a king. The palace becomes a circus.” - Turkish Proverb
How long?
...and yes, I was humming 40 by U2 when I wrote that bit!
How long is a piece of string?
I like Camp Kumoni and EAFOAB, but generally, I don't like the short instalments. Traditionally, chapters in books I have read, have been longer than these, but it's just an alternative name for episode or instalment.
I tend to keep to a fairly long chapter and consequently, if I haven't finished the story when I post the first part (Cruisin' for example) and something goes wrong as has happened here with the moving and sale of the house etc, then the last chapter is a difficult thing to come up with as the momentum kinda petered out.
So, this has meant that people are still waiting to see what happens and I'm trying - desperately trying to get it together (soon hopefully).
This is a prime example of what can happen to serials, but with people like Mr. Ram not liking or reading anything he cannot finish in half an hour, can make it difficult. Oh well, that's his loss I guess.
I have written shorts, but being a garrulous old fool, I prefer to develop things and as such, my stories and chapters are long.
NB
I prefer ...
... fairly long timely chapters, or the whole thing at once, no matter how long. I also like to have an idea how long a story is when I start it. It's not just for stories here or on FM, it's for any fiction, including comics and mainstream fiction. Readers have been waiting patiently for the "Wheel Of Time" series to be completed -- for about twenty years so far, an entire generation. I grew so weary of having to reread most of the series again to remember all those details whenever a new book came out, I swore I wouldn't buy another book until the series was finished.
I'd say a chapter should be at least 5K words long, hopefully longer. It allows the reader to get into it and stay there for a little while. It's not a huge deal if short chapters come out rapidly because one can always save them up and read them ten at a time, but it's something to consider. The Professor usually writes about 40 - 50K word stories/chapters and I haven't heard anyone complain about the size. The most important thing, however, is not the length of the chapters, it's finishing the story in a reasonable amount of time so that the readers don't have to re-read parts again.
Aardvark
"Happiness is when what you think, what you say, and what you do are in harmony."
Mahatma Gandhi
"Happiness is when what you think, what you say, and what you do are in harmony."
Mahatma Gandhi
Yea Aardvark I agree in principle but the chapters should be...
about 15 to 20K in length. That way you get enough of the story in one go to hold you until the next part comes out.
People tend to read stories by chapters and continue on for days of reading enjoyment. Not many sit and read a long story from start to finish unless it hits their heartstrings.
If your story is posted in one huge post, it disappears from view in a very short time. It gets bounced from the main page quickly. By posting in parts people can see the story several times and it stays on peoples minds that way.
I linked two parts of my latest story which had 15 parts to it. That worked well. I think I'll do that in the future. That way the readers have two parts to read until I post the next two.
I love the idea of posting a long story in one go but the author suffers for doing that by having her/his story disappear from the main page to quickly and that allows to many readers to miss it completely.
Huggles
Angel
"Be Your-Self, So Easy to Say, So Hard to Live!"
Like, excuuuuse me!
I still use dialup. Really
But unless a story is very heavy with graphics, it is no big problem, yet.
May go to Roadrunner or DLS soon. We will see.
John in Wauwatosa
John in Wauwatosa