I am so happy that Syriza won but I'm wondering what will happen. I am hoping Syriza will at the very least see these austerity measures thrown out, with a more equitable agreement happening. Maybe in this new measure the rich people in Greece will pay their fair share instead of seeing the middle class face undue hardship for bad decisions made by those in power who are likely in league with the rich.
Frankly, instead of trying to fix this problem with the EU, I would rather see Greece leave the Union. The "grand" experiment of the EU is a failure as far as I'm concerned. The ONLY way that damage could be mitigated under the EU would be by Greece recovering the Drachma.
Your thoughts?
I apologize if my thoughts are off here but I'm watching Quadriga while writing this.
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Interesting times
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Maybe in this new measure the rich people in Greece will pay their fair share instead of seeing the middle class face undue hardship for bad decisions made by those in power who are likely in league with the rich.
Yeah and the sun rises in the West.
IMHO, the experiment of the Euro as it is currently implemented is a failure. Without proper political Union the single currency was doomed to have (basket) cases like this.
I really don't see how Greece can stay in the Euro. They may well be better off outside in the short/medium term.
just my two farthings worth.
Why is it that people don't
Why is it that people don't seem to understand something about the rich.
They're not sitting on their money, gleefully hoarding it away from the 'poor'. Yes, they tend to have more free income than your standard middle-class family, but there's a lot more middle-class than wealthy.
What the rich do is _put their money to work_. Bob Smith, who has a worth of 100 million dollars, probably has about 1 million he can work with. The other 99 million is invested in stocks, bonds, and direct investments in companies. (even stocks and bonds, technically, are investments in companies). If he had to liquidate all of his 'wealth' to get cash, he _might_ end up with half that 100 million - at best. It would also take weeks to do.
At the turn of the 19th century, before all the governments went tax nuts, your average 'rich' family directly employed up to ten people just to maintain their homes. Now, they don't, because they can't afford to. (they might have some, but mostly they hire a service)
I'll get a life when it's proven and substantiated to be better than what I'm currently experiencing.
I never said...
they did.
But my problem is they want to reconfigure the system so they have to pay jack in taxes while the middle class and below has to carry the burden of paying for the maintenance of the commons. Why should there be sales tax on food, specifically groceries? That places an undue hardship on the poorer members of our society. It's a regressive tax. Why not increase the tax on comparative luxury goods, see: cars, boats, etc.
They also refuse to take it on the chin when some investment of theirs fails, expecting a bailout from the government in one way or another. The banks should never have been bailed out. I'm part of a credit union and mine never failed, because of making conservative(see: non-crazy) investments.
Another comment...Also those rich that invest wait but until after the honeymoon period for payback end up wrecking the product or severely diminishing the worth of it in one way or another. Compare Sirius near it's launch to now. The product isn't nearly as good. OutQ use to be almost a 24/7 schedule in terms of programming on the weekdays and had a decent amount on the weekend. Sirius Left went until midnight almost with Mike Malloy but now on their satellite stream to the radio I haven't heard him for a while. Instead, you have to log onto the Internet and that's one example.
Anyway, those rich that employed said family saw those servants get paid comparatively little and the people were suppose to be grateful to just be employed. Oh and they were suppose to keep their mouth shut of any criticism of their employer, so what free speech? The rich were also the one's who sent out the police to break strikes shortly before the turn of the 19th Century around the mines. The rich would have those people's children, the one's that worked the mine, starve to death by paying an insufficient wage that would only cover part of the family. There were folk songs sung about this stuff.
The rich must pay a fair wage to people or see everyone suffer, including their children. Ask a rich family in Mexico how great it is to have their children essentially be a bird in a gilded cage. If Mexico had a thriving middle class instead of seeing the rich take everything for themselves, then you wouldn't hear about rich kids being kidnapped there all the time. During the Great Depression, the children of rich parents were commonly kidnapped.
Oh and for Greece, the unemployment has risen from 9-9.5% to 25% so how is austerity helping anything? Sicknesses have increased because people can't afford medical care.
Keep in mind the concept of
Keep in mind the concept of 'compensation'. This doesn't just come in wages. The idea of a 'living wage' for _all jobs_ is ludicrious, and has only started cropping up in the last few years by idealistic know-nothing do-gooders. Anyway - for farmers and similar, there's always been the handyman or 'hand' who worked for 'room and board', two suits of clothing a year and sometimes a bonus. Those definitely weren't rich folks.
As for the rich in Greece? I don't have a problem with their being taxed. I don't even have a problem with their being taxed on their liquid holdings _outside_ of Greece (at least, if those liquid holdings aren't already being taxed by someone else). Sales tax on staples? Bad idea no matter what. Who defines staples, however? Raw good foods (bulk)? canned goods? prepared food items? (just add water pancake mix, for example). How about clothing? If you're going to be efficient, you should make it that clothing is taxed, but raw fabrics and findings are non-taxable. If you make your own clothing, you don't pay taxes. If you can afford to buy them, you get taxed. It's hard to make the judgement call, and although my landlord is Greek, that doesn't mean I know squat about politics in that part of the world (let alone economics).
As for Mexico? Don't even bother bringing that country into it. Keep in mind that Mexico is basically a feudal country, overseen by various warlords - just like many other third world countries. Corruption and bribery is the standard there, and the 'middle class' is being kept down not by the 'rich', per-se, but by the criminal. It's strange, you'd think that with the same potential benefits and future as the US, they'd have done better for themselves, but they still haven't.
I'll get a life when it's proven and substantiated to be better than what I'm currently experiencing.
money vs economy
what most ppl miss, is that economy is not closed, but open system with limited wealth (if we separate each nation as 1 system)
what in Greece happened is that rich&politicians took 100+B euro and moved it from local to other systems (Cyprus, Swiss, Cayman isl.,...)
effects of which we see nowdays :|
Greece leaving EMU is quite probable, but debts cant be annulled (maybe only interests)
why? it's simple - not ECB "loaned" money to Greece, but it was other states and institutions which took loans and given it to them
and if they decide to cancel debts, it would be on local taxpayers to pay it :( (country i live got loan of 10% its yearly budget for them)
my personal opinion: if they decide to chicken out and not pay, i would vote for confiscating all Greek wealth within EU and banishing them out (including economic sanctions - spain/italy farmers would be happy)
*worst would in the end be regular Greeks, which would eventually pay the price for transgressions of their ruler class