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Curiosity - what happened to The Center Universe of stories? I wasn't here at that point, but looking at the archives it had a solid buildup,a growing number of stories, and then everything just seems to stop.
Lilith Langtree left the site
Lilith Langtree left the site, which sort of put a stop to Canon for a number of universes.
I'll get a life when it's proven and substantiated to be better than what I'm currently experiencing.
Lilith is a unique and
Lilith is a unique and wonderful writer. Unfortunately there were some people who didnt like the way and speed she wrote stories. She got fed up and stopped writing.
>>>>>I'm a new soul.I came to this strange world.Hoping I could learn a bit bout how to give and take.<<<<<
It's a shame
Lilith Langtree was 1 of the great writers that because of negative comments gave up. I think all writers are so very creative and should be thanked for the time and effort it takes to create a story line start middle and ending, to that I just say KUDOS all authors.
Personally I send a P M to thank authors and sometimes you would not believe the responses I get, I have been given a heads up on upcoming stories before they are posted. The moral is like Erin says be nice.
Richie2
It's like cake
For those who've been reading my stuff, they know I'm a big fan of Lilith Langtree's The Center, and I was quite disappointed (a case of understatement there) when she disappeared from the writing scene here in Topshelf.
The readers here, as well as in other similar sites, often take to task the people who write the stories that they read, for many reasons - perhaps for bad writing; perhaps for limited imagination; perhaps for atrocious grammar; perhaps for misusing sayings or for misunderstanding a saying, an expression, an aphorism, an idiom; for selecting the wrong font; for something you think the writer will do or won't do even though she hasn't done it yet. So many reasons - as may reasons as there are stars in the sky. And I am afraid I do this, too, on occasion. Like any normal reader, I feel a kind of entitlement, too - I feel I am entitled to have good stories, and therefore I feel I am entitled to berate or dress down a writer for these infractions, that I am entitled to bully the writer.
But that isn't right, is it? Whether the one logged on is a reader or a writer, no one is entitled to bully someone else.
There are six things here:
One - We feel we are justified or entitled to bully someone - the justification for this bullying being these "egregious" writing "crimes" that aren't really crimes the weight of these things are only crimes in our heads. These are just stories! Why are we getting so bent out of shape enough that we want to be hurtful? Which leads me to Number Two;
Two - we feel we can bully someone here because there are no repercussions or consequences, We are in the internet, after all, where we can hide in our anonymity, which allows us to be the biggest a$$holes in the universe and we won't be held accountable simply because we are anonymous;
Three - We take things too personally! Especially for those of us who have very little else going on in our lives, we believe that the stories we read we own - that these are our property, and, as such, we can do what we want, and believe that what happens in these fictitious universes are real and are happening to us - not necessarily a bad thing because, after all, that is usually what the writer is going for - for her audience to be transported to her fictitious world, and for her audience to identify with her fictitious characters. The thing is, when she is successful in transporting her audience, there are some that identify too much, or assume that these fictitious things are happening to them personally, or the words of the writer are directed to them personally, and would be incredibly hurt if the writer's words weren't just so. And any wronged person would want to get satisfaction, and get back at the writer in some way, forgetting that it was just a story. Which brings me to number four;
Four - Our pride gets in our way, that, even though we realize we have done someone wrong, we cannot own up to them and actually apologize. But then, why should we - no one knows us on the internet, right? So why should we? Why should we admit that we did something wrong when no one knows it's us? What is integrity, after all, right? and;
Five - we have a need to be involved, to be seen and be acknowledged by others. But if we have nothing to bring to the table, like some great insight, some fabulous idea, or even a funny quip or anecdote, then we make do with yelling at people, or insulting them. It's sort of like someone who wants to be noticed, but if they're not pretty or they don't have nice clothes or a flashy car, or a new idea, but still wants to be noticed by the cute boy or pretty girl in the class, they make do by making an ass of themselves. That does get them some attention, but much, much later, that's the only time when they realize, when it's too late, that the attention wasn't the kind of attention they wanted, and, connected with that -
Six - that what we do, it has to be out in public, because, if we do it via, say, a PM or Private Message, it will not do - it has to be out in public. So people will notice. It's like, why send a PM - you have to put it out on twitter or facebook so people will know it's from you.
There are some others, however, that are psychopathic enough that want attention - any kind of attention - good or bad, so long as he's noticed. It's like those people who paint graffiti on brand-new buildings, or destroy a statue and put the video up on Youtube, or spit on a cake so no one else can have any. For such people, there really is no solution - they're just plain old SOBs, and there's really nothing to be done for SOBs...
As for the others -
There's one thing I learned: writers are held accountable for so many things - grammar skills, composition skills, knowledge about her subject matter, et cetera. They're even held accountable for having good taste. So many things, and because it is an article of faith that writing is not a skill that is easily pigeonholed, anyone and everyone can hold the writer accountable for anything. So anyone can put anything in a comment, and fancy themselves as some kind of blameless critic, or someone righteously taking down a bad, bad writer for whatever-it-was-that-she-did-that-was-totally-unforgivable-and-must-be-told-off.
But here's the thing - critics, like writers, must have skills as well. Being a critic, or even if you don't fancy yourself as a critic but "just some reader who wants to put up a comment" - there are things you are also held accountable for. You aren't entitled to just vent your spleen or indulge in shouting or insults, for one thing.
And I can quote many things that you have to be to comment or to be a critic, like being constructive, or being relevant, or not taking things personally, or avoid being insulting, et cetera. But, after all, you are anonymous in the internet so no one knows you so you can do any old thing you want and escape blame. You can even have dozens of user IDs and you can indulge your id and say anything you want. No accountability.
But really, all it takes are two simple things:
one - Review your words: consciously control your words, meaning, do what most people who are avoiding hurting people do when they write - before you post, review what you've written; think about your words first because, once posted, it'll be out there already, and you can't take them back.
two - Be considerate. Think of the other person - the writer. Think of what she'll feel after you've posted your comment or your PM or your email or whatever. Put yourself in the other person's shoes. It's what's called empathizing.
But then there are the psychopathic in us that says, so what? I don't care. I don't care if I spray graffiti all over the walls, or spit in the cake.
I keep on saying there's no consequence. But there is - maybe not a big one, but there is.
If one doesn't try to be a good Bigcloset resident, then we will lose more people like Lilith.
So, please, don't spit on the cake. I, myself, am avoiding this - why do you think I don't comment on the stories I've read?
So, don't spit on the cake. 'kay?
click here to read all of my blogs,
click here to read my stories in BCTS, and
click here to see my profile & know more about me.
The weight of good criticism lies on the writer too, though.
I've seen many an author, even (or especially) popular ones, act as though any kind of criticism or dissent at all in their comments were a personal attack on them, or that because their story is technically free they shouldn't have any criticism of any kind weighed against their work.
If either of those things were the case, then what would be the value of a public comment system at all? If writers expect only positive feedback or only affirmation from their readers with nothing deeper, then the like/love/thank buttons -- themselves a bit of a joke I'm sure most here fail to get the sarcasm behind -- are all the feedback readers should be allowed.
It IS important for readers, when commenting, to think about what they're saying and how it might be taken by others, both the author and other commenters. It's equally important for authors to recognize that they aren't just writing for themselves, or for a site full of sycophants whose very existence is meant to confirm their own well-being. If an author wants or expects people to become emotionally involved in their work, then they have to understand that that includes accepting criticism that is levelled at it, price of the work be damned.
I liked a lot of Lilith's work, some of it quite a bit, but part of her issues with the site did lie in the fact that she couldn't take criticism, at all, either from her readers or even from those who worked with her on the shared universes she was so fond of. To place the responsibility for that outcome purely on the readers, those who became attached to her characters and tales and wanted to talk about them and had the opportunity to do so, is to deny the author any responsibility at all for how they chose, in turn, to react when their choices and ideas weren't what people liked or wanted.
BCTS is a bit of a living, breathing ecosystem, with the site administration, authors, and readers/commenters all playing a part in its circle of life. The authors need the readers if they want to have an audience for their work, and the readers need the authors if they want to have stories to enjoy, and both need to work together to find what content fulfill's the site's needs most. The more authors get up in arms at negative criticism -- not the attacks that do, occasionally, happen, but honest criticism -- and demand something be done to stop it the more work they're putting on administration's shoulders to deal with problems they shouldn't have to worry about.
We all want the site to succeed. That means we all need to put in the effort to make it do so. If commenters need to think about the author's feelings before posting then the opposite also has to be true, since neither one is more important than the other. Without authors, there is no BCTS. Without commenters, there is no BCTS. Both do, and should, have equal voice and equal responsibility.
Melanie E.
I'm one of those who
I'm one of those who struggles with critics. The reason for it is simple: a lot of the critics who have commented or who have PMed have been doing so out of pettiness or trying to force their views on how a story should go. I take a strong hatred of it as it's always done by the same people and they get away with it because of who they are. There have been a few who have correcte me as the mistakes were glaring and were justified in pointing those mistakes out in private, three of those people have even gotten me to write more stories based on something that they pointed out. The issue is how they do it more than that they are doing it, if you are nice about it and are genuinely trying to help then authors will accept it. However, if you are like several prominent authors and commentators here it's unwanted, unneeded, and comes off as arrogant and off-putting.
This isn't the case with Lillian, she simply got fed up with people badgering her about her stories that she was writing at a slow pace and she was right to get fed up! People here haven't complained about several authors on here who have multiple stories ongoing that have either no end in sight or that start, stop for months if not years, then post a couple of new parts then disappear again. Those same authors are touted as some of the "best" yet they disappear and return without anyone daring to say anything about them leaving stories unfinished. A lot of the readers are hypocrites. She got sick of the hypocrisy and chose to leave instead of letting the people here destroy her mental health. She is likely writing under another name and enjoying her anonymity, doing her own thing at her own pace.
I'm told STFU more times in a day than most people get told in a lifetime
The Center
Everyone said pretty much what I was going to say. There were a lot of stories left to tell but lack of interest in them in the end. Its popularity started to dwindle too. Which is a shame because I had a few character that I really wanted to wrap up :(.
Re:The Center
While I understand (and certainly regret) why The Center ground to a halt, I would greatly enjoy seeing you fill out your characters.
I was trying to keep it
I was trying to keep it simple, but I'll add some additional information.
Lilith and I are very close to the same age. We also come from the same area - in fact, we went to competing high schools, and probably were less than 30 miles apart during our school years (no, I don't know her in person). I definitely like her writing, and I like her personally.
The problems that people were having with her wasn't her writing, or even writing frequency. The _main_ problem at the time was that she tended to write on a lot of different stories at once, and would abandon (temporarily or not) a story for the next one that caught her attention. The most complete stories were the ones that became universes, and even those were incomplete, as they never really came to a full ending - she left before that point, and did not appoint someone to be a conservator of them.
The reason she left was that people would NOT stop harping on her finishing this story, or that story, or the other story _instead of starting a new one_. I was one of the few that would ask, but never put pressure on her for it. I suspect that it was new readers that felt that NOBODY had ever asked the question before, and put it forth as a demand. I talked to her a bit after she officially left, and that was the feeling I got from the short conversations.
I'd love it if she came back, but she kind of made it clear she wasn't going to post a story again unless it was complete, and she had RL issues also come up to slow down writing anyway.
BW
I'll get a life when it's proven and substantiated to be better than what I'm currently experiencing.