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I've often wondered why people put trademark, registered trademark, and copyright indicators after the names of certain products or organizations. I can understand why it's important to show respect for someone's trademark or copyright, but is it mandatory to put such indicators in the middle of a piece of fiction?
Usually when I see something like the following,
I went to McDonald's(R) and ordered a burger and fries.
I don't read it as,
I went to McDonald's and ordered a burger and fries.
Instead, I read it as,
I went to McDonald's registered trademark and ordered a burger and fries.
Am I the only one who feels like the flow of the story is interrupted when these indicators have been put in the middle of a story? Would the beginning or end of a story be better places to let people know who owns which trademark or copyright?
In fiction ...
... i generally leave off the indicators completely. I am hardly infringing on their copyright or trademark just by mentioning them as a place my characters went to eat -- it's not an endorsement or a slam on McDonald's or Starbucks, considering how ubiquitous they are on the cultural landscape.
Usually, a simple disclaimer at the end could cover you if you're really concerned. Something like "All trademarks and copyrights are the property of their respective owners, and used without permission."
Just a thought. *hugs* Keep writing! Don't let stuff like this keep your fingers off the keyboard.*grin*
Randalynn
Depends on...
Viewpoint and where it falls in the story
In First person (or the very rare Second person), I wouldn't use them. In Third person, I wouldn't use them in dialogue or in thoughts. I would, however, use them in narrative descriptions
Edeyn Hannah Blackeney
PS I read it as I went to McDonald'Sir and ordered a burger and fries
Trademarks
Including the (R) or (TM) or (SM) is never really required and especially not in fiction but some magazines have found it useful to avoid nasty letters from corporate lawyers. The problem is when you use a trademark as a generic, referring to unbranded tissue as Kleenex, for instance. Simply capitalizing the trademark is sufficient not to threaten the trademark with genericization but courts have ruled that a company must act in order to protect a mark and lawyers must justify their existence. Coca Cola almost lost Coke as a trademark, Bayer did lose aspirin in the United States, so companies got more vigilant and lawyers more annoying. :)
- Erin
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
trademarks
I think around here it's more useful to put those on fictional products:
Jim's shower felt much better on his skin after his plumber installed the new Phem-I9(R) water softener.
Including TM, (R), and (C) in stories
I think it's tricky. If in the story the character has a really bad experience, I would use a fictional burger bar, or generic cola, whatever, it all depends what level of realism is required. Would it matter if the character was covered in a generic cola after the can exploded? No. Would it matter if it was Coca Cola? Yes. It would imply that under certain conditions, their cans are unreliable. So in the latter instance, one may very well have to be careful as to what's written.
On the other hand, if the character has a really good experience in one of the afformantioned burger-type establishments, I would not, after all, that's free advertising isn't it? I should be paid for that - films do.
I have to say that after I went to see Quadrophenia, I saw it in Brighton - where it was made and actually touched the green gate against which Lesley Ash was um, seen to. It was kinda surreal, but I'm sure that Brighton didn't ask for some sort of copyright on the Lanes, or follow that up with some crass form of advertising did they?
Common sense. That's all it needs. Many of these companies make more money than you could imagine and don't need pampering further.
Write-on!
Nick B
Fair Use of Trademarks
A good explanation of this can be found HERE.
Scott
Writing is not necessarily something to be ashamed of--but do it in private and wash your hands afterwards.
Lazarus Long - Robert A. Heinlein's 'Time Enough for Love'
Bree
The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense.
-- Tom Clancy
http://genomorph.tglibrary.com/ (Currently broken)
http://bree-ramsey314.livejournal.com/
Twitter: @genomorph
Handy information
I had a lot of that in my journalism law course, but that was more years ago than I like to admit. So I added the link to my writing tools folder.
Thanks Scott!
KJT
"A dress makes no sense unless it inspires men to want to take it off you."
Francoise Sagan
"Life is not measured by the breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.”
George Carlin
Jargon
Thanks Scott but I found that info basically useless. Too many qualifies and no examples -- what it amounted to saying is use common sense and if you end up in court claim "good faith". :)
- Erin
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
Erin, Erin
Can you really use the term "common sense" with a straight face? Like any reference source, you get out of it in direct proportion to your need. I know one writer who constantly used the copyright and trademark symbols, to the point where they visually affected the story. To that writer the information would be quite useful. To others, like you or me, the information is very basic, stuff we learned years ago. But that dosen't lessen the usefulness of the site to those that need it, and that's why I added it to my references.
KJT
"A dress makes no sense unless it inspires men to want to take it off you."
Francoise Sagan
"Life is not measured by the breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.”
George Carlin
Yes, no, maybe
I used them a lot early on but as my proofers and readers objected I dropped them. They do disrupt the reader
I may do a story that is riddled with them to the point of overkill, a spoof, obviously.
In a non-fiction piece or an advertisement, absolutely you must not *infringe* but in satire/humor you are on fairly safe ground, fair use doctrine and all that.
John in Wauwatosa
John in Wauwatosa
Exactly what I meant
The advice on that page amounted to saying use common sense, without defining common sense. That's why I thought it fairly useless. Every sentence was full of qualifiers and there were no examples. It was expository writing done with a lawyer stuck in one's teeth. I didn't mean that one would be just as well off to use common sense but that that was what the advice there meant in the end analysis.
Lawyers have intimidated people into not giving effective business advice in order to avoid being sued, thereby ensuring the monopoly of law. This subject really isn't as hard to decipher as this article made out, it kind of annoyed me. As an example, the bit about not using a trademark as a noun or a verb but only as an adjective is NOT how people speak or think and is contrary to numerous court cases. Have you ever in your life heard anyone say, other than as satire, "I'm going to get myself a Coca-Cola flavored soft drink"? Or not to pluralize trademarks. People DO say "There are three Pizza Huts in town."
For fiction writers, that advice was deliberately obstructionist.
- Erin
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
Um ... Erin ...
I found it quite clear and easy to follow. You don't think ... I mean I couldn't be ... no, please ... say it isn't so!!!
I ...I really am turning into a lawyer!!!! Gaggghhhhh!!
Scott
Writing is not necessarily something to be ashamed of--but do it in private and wash your hands afterwards.
Lazarus Long - Robert A. Heinlein's 'Time Enough for Love'
Bree
The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense.
-- Tom Clancy
http://genomorph.tglibrary.com/ (Currently broken)
http://bree-ramsey314.livejournal.com/
Twitter: @genomorph
Translawyerism
A very serious condition,Scott. :smirk:
-- Donna Lamb, Flack
-- Donna Lamb, ex-Flack
Some of my books and stories are sold through DopplerPress to help support BigCloset. -- Donna
The Response
In college and beyond, my friends and I noticed that everywhere we went for food... dinner, lunch, snacking, etc... we felt compelled to ask if it were Coke or Pepsi products. So we came up with a generic response to, "What'll you have to drink?"
A caffeinated, carbonated, caramel-colored beverage
If the waitress didn't need clarification, she got 10% added to her tip
Pitfall
Trouble is, most root beers also qualify...
Eric (who likes root beer and usually can't stand cola)
Barq's does
I don't know any other caffeinated root beers. In fact, Barq's didn't used to call their stuff root beer because it's more of a caffeinated sasparilla than a traditonal sassafras-flavored root beer.
One of the things that annoys me about Coca Cola -- when Barq's was an independent company (actually, several independent companies, Coke bought all of them that made their own syrups) while I was growing up, they also made one of the best orange sodas and an excellent white cream soda. Can't get those any more around here, though their website shows a picture of both the red and the white cream soda.
- Erin
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.
Barq's is good but...
I have to say that Barq's is good, but the best Root Beer IMHO is Hosmer Mountain, a small bottling company in Willimantic, Connecticut. Actually their Root Beer was ranked 4th in the nation of all root beer tasted.
Yes, Hosmer Mountain has cream soda and birch beer along with 2 types of cola - Cola red (tastes like coke) and cola blue (tastes like pepsi).
TG Sine
Insurance Is No Assurance
The advice about purchasing insurance is utter nonsense. Media insurance is available to "media" and established writers. For the established writer the publisher would assume the risk.
I use the trademarks for effect as do the people (attorneys) who use them. There are certain copyright, trademark people you don't ever screw with: Disney, ASCAP, and Charles Schulz. Others might want to add to this list.
Jill
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
Bundulo!
That's the slogan for the lawyers at ERB, Inc. :) They've even sued Disney after selling them a license.
- Erin
= Give everyone the benefit of the doubt because certainty is a fragile thing that can be shattered by one overlooked fact.