I am an author on this site with a lot of stories and I am, I suppose, one of the more popular ones.
It has become apparent for a while now that comments seem to be on the decline, which is a pity as many authors who contribute to the site like to get feedback that the stories that they have written are appreciated or not as the case may be.
Erin and her team are always asking for readers to comment, indeed at the bottom of each and every story there is the following:
If you liked this post, you can leave a comment and/or a kudo!
Click the Good Story! button above to leave the author a kudo: Array
And please, remember to comment, too! Thanks.
Also some authors, me included, specifically ask for comments.
It isn’t much to ask for. This is a free site and authors spend a lot of time, not forgetting blood, sweat and tears to get the stories up for you to read. The only payment that they would like is some sort of reaction from you, the reader.
If you do not want to put your name to a comment, you can still comment as a guest, so your details would not be on the site.
There are a large number of good quality stories here, with few comments. It is disheartening for there to be little or no reaction from the readers and it can and does put off writers from contributing to the site.
I for one am seriously considering stopping. I love writing but I also love having some sort of dialogue from my readers. So please think of the poor writers before you press the home button and give us your reaction even if it is only, well done or what a load of c**p!
So prove me wrong and make me eat my words - Do you really want apathy to rule?
I have posted this under an alternative name as I do not want to be seen to be trying to get personal advantage out of the above.
Comments
I'd comment but ...
... I can't be arsed ;)
Not entirely sure it's true (that there are generally fewer comments than formerly) but certainly they're a valuable boost to writers who don't get paid any other way. Are there any statistics indicating that comments/story have fallen? I never comment on stories I don't like even though I may not praise unreservedly. If a story is, IMO of course, really bad or simply not to my taste I stay quiet.
There seems to be a lot of stories of a similar type right now - superheroes/comic characters - which don't interest me in the slightest so my comments have fallen becuase I haven't been reading them. Not criticising the existence of the stories btw; they aren't being posted instead of the ones I prefer.
Robi
edit Another thing is the number of serials posted. Whilst I'm happy to comment regularly I tend not to comment on every episode of a serial. I'm sure I'm not alone in that.
Frankly, I Could Care Less About Apathy
Rebecca,
I sympathize with you. Every time I post something, I wonder about the lack of response, positive or negative; however, I don't think pulling stories or not posting is the solution. Personally, I am just going to keep plugging along, and cherish the few comments I get. They're all I need to keep me going.
Portia
Portia
Time, dear writer
Unfortunately, for a lot of us there is this horrible hellish place we are forced to spend significant amounts of our time: Real Life.
That in turn means less time to read the wonderful tales that people offer here. And even less time for those of us who have a muse battering us with tales that need to be written, as well.
We are trying, we really are. When we read something exceptional, we comment positively. When we read something we don't like, well, we either don't finish it or we often don't comment. If you read through the forums there are topics about commenting positively so as not to put people off. If there's something specific I want to tell an author about, I'll PM them, it doesn't make public waves that way.
But, very often, I'll have to drop a story because I simply don't have sufficient time at the moment. Personally, I'm looking after a partner who is recovering from heart surgery, and I have Fibromyalgia, so my life has been very exhausting for the last three months. I'm sure there are others here who have just as good reasons for only spending the barest minimum time they can possibly get away with - and I mean that in a good way. Better a quick skim over not logging on at all. Unfortunately, comments tend to be the first casualty of that process.
Now, because I wrote this, which story am I not going to have time to read before I go off and peel yet more vegetables?
Penny
Don't bother ...
... to peel. In most cases the skin of vegetables won't poison you - just eat the lot. I do :)
Robi
Apathy
I would make a comment here but that would like, ah, take some effort.
Nancy Cole
"You may be what you resolve to be."
T.J. Jackson
Popularity
I'm also an author on here, although not a particularly popular one. There's a handful of people that like to read my stuff, and a smaller handful of those who comment on it. But that's fine by me. Those who do comment usually take the time to say something worthwhile.
#s Game
A lot of hits are not unique readers; they're either repeats or people reading comments. Thus when you have 2,000 hits and ten comments that really doesn't mean only one in two hundred who read the story left a comment.
There are a lot of guest readers who seemingly are afraid to participate. From the numbers shown it appears about 75% of readers are guests. That is bound to reduce the ratio of comments to hits.
Many people who read stories are moved to comment mainly by the story's theme and not by the quality of the story or the actual content.
The reality is that there are only about 50 to 150 people who actively comment on stories on BC. Since stories only attract readers for a few days, many of those are likely to miss it. For sake of argument the number of potential people to comment is probably around fifty.
If they're like me and "only" read about a fourth of what is posted, that reduces the fifty to about a dozen.
That means, at least to me, that the average story should receive about a dozen comments -- if all those so inclined do their duty.
What it really means is that if you consider yourself a discerning reader you have a "duty" to leave a comment. The illusion that there are thousands of others who will probably leave a comment is just that, an illusion.
If you, a discerning reader, don't leave a comment, and just twelve other (also discerning) people make that same decision, it is likely a story will not recieve a meaningful comment -- and that sucks.
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
Here's the thing
I read a lot of stories here on BCTS. As an aspiring writer, I can certainly appreciate the thrill of receiving feedback on one of my stories, and yes, I wish I had more of that, it's addictive.
But... I'm sorry, I won't post for the sake of saying 'Gosh what a good story'. That's what the kudos button is for. And I use it a lot.
If I wanted to offer any kind of a well-intentioned critique or suggestion, well, sometimes those aren't always received in the spirit with which they might have been offered. So I generally shy away from those.
I'm not a teacher grading papers. I don't feel compelled to find something generically nice to say about every story I read. Wouldn't that devalue the genuine praise? So, unless there's a particular point about the story that I really enjoyed, or got under my skin, or I felt some aspect of the writing was particularly well done, I generally refrain, and let the kudos button do its job.
With that said, I generally DO make a point of reading the comments, and will chip in if I particularly agree or disagree with one of those. So sometimes you'll get me that way :)
Personally I'm sorry that
Personally I'm sorry that you feel that way, though certainly that's your right.
The trouble with Kudo's (as much as I like getting them!) is that they are anonymous. Sure that is the purpose of them, I understand that. But I cherish comments, as much because I like to know who is reading my stories as much as what they have to say. So the "Good Story" kind of comment, is just as cherished, at least by me as any other.
I try to comment on any story that I read and enjoy. If I don't have anything nice to say, or didn't like a story, I probably won't comment, unless it is to make a helpful suggestion.
I do see that comments are down, or seem to be. I haven't been writing much for lots of reasons, but I notice it on other stories. Perhaps there are simply not many people that are into the two current big themes, Halloween (I know of several that have posted that they aren't reading any of the Halloween stories) and Ret Con. Sometimes the other pieces get a little buried in the midst of the big themes at any time. I know that I've been having trouble finding the energy to find something I have an interest in checking out these days.
Hugs,
Kristy
100% Absolutely
Having a name attach to the "attagirl" is extremely important. Even if all you say is -- "I found this story enjoyable to read." you've said a mouthful.
People aren't usually coming to this site because everything is wonderful in their life. The simple kindness of stating publicly that you like their story means a great deal.
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
I love comments
Even if it is, 'I liked that'. I admit it, they're like a drug to me, I can't seem to get enough of them. I also don't mind the comments from those who tend not to like what I write. Although if they're too vocal about why they don't like it, I'd like it in a PM rather than in the comments.
Another thing about comments, is if i see someone commenting that they like the same stories that I do, well it's led me to some wonderful tales that I might not otherwise have found.
RL has also effected my ability to both write stories and comment on others. I do what I can when I can, but lately it hasn't been easy.
Luv and hugs,
Connie
on the other side
you mention that you "love dialogue". let me ask this: where is this dialogue?
i used to comment a lot more. but then, most of the time my comments went unnoticed far as i can tell. so why bother?
as someone said about rowlings, her commercial success was not so much the result of her fans worshipping her, but of her worshipping her fans. if you want comments, you should also start to show your appreciation of them by responding.
That is true Mutabilis, but
That is true Mutabilis, but trust me JKR, gets her rewards finacially. She knows her fans love her books because of sales.
Authors here only receive comments in payment, its the only collaterial we have, and it does help.
Having said that I agree that responding to those that comment, starts a dialogue and also starts a relationship with them, nad in that way encourages furhter comments. Keep in mind though, that there is not an established ettiquette on responding to comments, and different sites handle that differently. Here it is certainly allowed, but on some sites its actively discouraged.
As a general rule, I try to respond to commenters, but as i don't like to inflate my comments by respoding individually, I usually do so in a single reply, and once in a while I do so thru PM. Sometimes, just in the chatroom, it really depends.
Others will reply to each comment, or will do so via PM. Some don't reply at all...
In anycase, I think your point is well taken, and I don't know if there is an official "Erin" doctrine on how to reply and where, I somehow doubt it. Erin tends to leave such things to the author's discretion, which is one of the things I like about this site.
Hugs,
Kristy
Several Good Friendships
. . .have developed out of dialogue when I commented on a story or when another person commented on one of mine.
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
I do comment
but for stories that totally rubs me the wrong way, I pass over and don't comment on it. My view is that for a lot of readers there is an abundance of stories that one does like and for me it takes enough time to read those. Now if there is a dearth of stories that may change but you are right, for a lot of stories there seems to be only a small core of readers who take time to think about the story and provide feedback. There are some duds out there imho but a suggestion is to also offer a poll as to maybe why a user is passing over the story. This is the negative version of the Kudos thing but should not be a mere up and down yeah or nay but should have like 5 options as to why a browsing reader has passed you over.
Just a thought.
Kim
Who are you?
You certainly seem full of yourself, saying you are one of the better authors here with alot of stories posted. The name you use is barely 4 hours old and is not listed with the rest of the authors, so you apparently do not wish to be connected with either your comments or your (alleged) stories you have posted here. Mighty brave!
I as a reader have pretty much quit commenting since I can never know what kind of comment will prove satisfactory to the writer.. Simple words of praise are not satisfactory, a critique is what is wanted. But don't actually criticize, if you can't say sometthing nice then don't say anything at all. Don't mention how something reminded you of XYZ, the writer doesn't want to know how the story draws parrallels to your personal life. And for God's sake don't hyjack the thread by commenting on something another said..
Then there is the whole voting vs commenting thing. Can I vote instead of commenting or not? Apparently I can, but I shouldn't, or I can't but some do, or I won't unless I will, something like that. That doesn't even consider the whole months with a "Y" issue, or factor in Planck's Constant, or . . . I forgot. I can't make fun of or ridicule any of the writers (except for a select few). If I do, then I get cu
I went outside once. The graphics weren' that great.
Pardon Me!
Omega Girl,
Please tell me where I said that I was a 'better' author? I do not consider myself to be that. There are authors here who in my opinion are vastly better than me and deserve to get credit/comments for all that they do. I am one of the more popular authors, probably because I press the right buttons for a lot of readers and if you actually read my blog I said:
I have posted this under an alternative name as I do not want to be seen to be trying to get personal advantage out of the above.
I could not care less if you believe me or not. The reason why I put the blog up in the first place was to highlight a problem for all authors like me who like to see what their readers think about their work.
I don't know you and I do not know why you have said what you have, but please treat me with the curtesy that you would expect to be treated by others.
You're right
Popular does not equal better. Perhaps it should, but then what would FM do.
I see the annonymous author posting as a way to say things while avoiding being splashed with the mud that ends up being thrown. You brung it to the table, you put your name on it. That you don't helps define the level of courtesy you receive. Annomyous posts are low on the scale. Not quite bottom feeders, but close. IMHO.
All the responses I mention are ones I have received from writers here and elsewhere, and this subject has been up for comments quite often here on BC. To repeat my point: there isn't a comment made that won't cause a writer somewhere to fly off the handle, no matter how well-intentioned the reader was when making it.
I have been effusive in my praise, and been slammed for it. I have made a brief note of appreciation, and been slammed for it. I have offered up a short mention of areas where the story would benefit from some extra attention, and been slammed for it; and I have given a detailed review of the strong and weak points in a story, and been slammed for it. In addition, just a few weeks ago here on BC there were some complaints about readers who vote for a story without commenting.
So faced with all this contradictory input from the writers, is it any wonder readers like me no longer comment or vote?
. . . .
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until they speak.
I went outside once. The graphics weren' that great.
A trifle unfair
I think rebeccas' reason to adopt an anonymous identity are not unreasonable. She's merely doing that to stop being branded as seeking 'strokes' for her own stories. I don't think she should be branded as a bottom feeder for that. After all I'm sure Omega Girl isn't the name on your passport any more than Robyn Hoode is on mine; we all adopt a degree of anonymity. Even Erin, but I think she doesn't hide her real name too hard - unless that's an alias too :)
As for getting slammed by writers - it's not something I've experienced except in one case and now I never comment on her stories. And it's not because I don't criticise adversely (but hopefully constructively). Moreover, I've been lucky enough to form on-line friendships with one or two.
In the end, there's no real answer to the lack of response except occasionally to bring it up like this post does and hope it encourages a few more comments. A reasonable aim IMO
Robi
And because I'm an apologist...
... I'd just like to add, with a touch of topic drift, that if I've ever come across as slamming anyone, I want to sincerely apologize.
I know exactly what Omega's talking about in other examples I've observed since I've been here, but also want to cover my own bases, as it were, "just in case". :-)
Ducking back out of the conversation for now because I tend to open my mouth and hurt people when I get involved in discussions that aren't about plot development/technique. :-)
The Alpha Omega Girl
You have a valid point. People do react negatively to many criticism that aren't all that negative.
Isn't it nice when someone acknowledges that you have a right to an opinion (and even agrees with you.) That's how it feels when someone says your story didn't suck.
You seem to want to know who posted the blog. You're a smart person. Think of the four or five most popular writers on BC. Compare the writing style of the blog to their writing styles and you will know immediately which one posted this blog. Obviously not Angharad. Obviously not me . . . because my writing isn't that popular. (I write a bunch of stories a lot of people ignore.) Certainly not Stanman. Not at all like Andrea Lena's writing.
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
Not really
I'm not gonna track this person down, it really isn't worth my time. My point is that many people hide behind masks, and most are not superheros. I distrust people who find it necessary to hide who they are when posting comments such as this. I grant the other person's point that to a degree we are all hiding who we are. However, most of us have established track records under our screen names, we can be searched, our previous comments and stances can be seen. Angela, Erin, Nancy, even myself, we have a certain amount of ourselves invested in our names and personnas. I doubt that we (or others in our positions) would casually forsake that investment to create or maintain a negative environment here on BC.
But a name that was registered a few short hours ago? We know nothing for sure. We certainly don't know what they ultimately intend to do. And for that reason I distrust them and their motives. Especially when they start out on a potentially volatile subject such as comments and votes. It was rehashed for the umpteenth time not that long ago, why is it being brought up again so soon?
Awhile back I posted a comment on a story along the lines of "Wonderful, simply wonderful!". Hey, sometimes I'm not the wittiest person around. However, I really enjoyed the story and wanted the writer to know.
The next day there was a note waiting for me when I got on BC, from the person who wrote the story. Their response? "If that's all you can say, don't even bother to comment!" That's when I finally decided it wasn't worth my time to comment on most stories. And I shake my head whenever I see some writer complaining about not getting comments.
. . . .
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until they speak.
I went outside once. The graphics weren' that great.
Certainly if someone comes
Certainly if someone comes on with a negative post then I could see your point...
However, I don't see anything in Rebeccas post that is negative, and nothing that rated the vehement response you immediately gave her.
There is no question that had she come here and made such a comment as herself, people would have accused her of trying to drum up hits/comments on her particular story. The way that she has done so is generic and cannot be said to be a vanity issue, is not negative, but rather a reminder to people that commenting is important.
This site lives and dies on authors writing. As a general rule, authors are more willing to put their heart and soul in and make the effort when they are acknowledged. Shake your head all you want, but that's just human nature. What else do you think we get out of it? Sure we write for ourselves, and in many cases, mine included, we write because we have something to work out, and its a form of therapy. But in the end we post it because we hope that someone else will get something, anything out of it.
For an author to send you a PM such as that, they frankly should be using the option to prevent comments, because they clearly don't want them.
I would have sent that PM to Erin. While I can't speak for her, I would imagine that such a response to a polite comment like that would be that it was a violation of the spirt of friendliness she actively encourages here. Regardless of what Erin would or would not do in such an instance, I would also have responded to the person and said, "Don't worry, I won't read or comment on anything else of yours again."
But I would not penalize other authors for one author's rudeness.
Kristy
Too many serials.
I don't comment on stories that aren't finished.
Nobody.
Gawd this is a right mess
You know I write here too and as a writer I live for the comments I get. It's an ego stroke sure but Comments to me more than the PM's urge me to write more. I'm not saying I wouldn't write because of them or them not being there but a few comments can really make such a huge difference. I've also had some comments keep me from scraping something I felt wasn't good and see it in a whole other light and that's amazing when that can happen for a writer.
As a reader though it's different. In a serial I like I'll hit the Kudo, I've been a bit put off of commenting because more often then not thee's someone who's already said what I wanted to say.
But after reading this I'll write even if it's just an I'm with so and so.
That being said, there is a matter of tastes, as some have brought up. Like the retcon stuff not my cup of tea at all so...
And somethings just give me the eeews so bad I want a way to take my hit off of it so it doesn't register as a read. If I hated it enough to stop reading and leave then they don't even deserve that much. It sounds cruel but...I've read some things that make me feel that way.
Then there's time.
We all have time issues and RL stuff going on and if that keeps some from commenting as they would like we should all just understand that.
It the whole thing I'm going to have to agree with Rebecca and Angela in we should speak up more to each other and comment more. I'm not against commenting more but the reason so many writers here don't respond is because there was a flame here on the site about someone Bit..ing about this padding the comment numbers.
I believe the drama from that hurt all of us and I'm going to try to return those comments. PM's are best for really personal stuff and criticism.
Yes If you've got something nasty to say say it there or else this place will turn into a warzone.
No one wants the war zone here.
I love it here, I found love here.
Thanks for saying things that needed to be said Rebecca.
Bailey Summers
situations and realities
It might be said and I would agree, I can be a little opinionated. I do try to always be polite and not attack anyone but people being people some will choose to take a word or phrase and make it say what they wish. The nature of the medium in part, bald words easily taken out of context or misconstrued. Basically I'm a gentle soul.
I scribble a story now and then, some like them and some probably cross the road to avoid them, so it goes. I like comments as any one that posts does I think. I don't mind questions or niggles or even criticism, just be polite. Tell me I'm a great writer and I'll laugh out loud and question your sanity.
That thing real life gets in the way for many on both sides of the writing fence. I used to comment a lot now I barely manage 1 or 2 a week. Partly that's me and partly the splintering of the types of stories. I don't get Universes, why limit yourself to someone elses world? Use it as inspiration sure, but make it your own unique thing. So I don't read derivations even though some I'm sure are well done. I like reality based so I probably won't look at overtly sweet types. That leaves lately not a lot and I download some to look at later and I'm way behind for various reasons. There's exceptions because everything depends, always. I make no assertions as to what is good or not, just personal taste.
So... time, personal reality, taste, fractured readership, niche authoring, some push the right buttons and get the nod. Others for various reasons skirt the edges with varying degrees of success. If you measure success by popularity. I do okay for example but my best read piece is probably a third of the numbers of the heavy hitters. I'll live.
Anyway, if you read and it speaks to you at all, push the button. If it moves you, say something, anything. Don't fear to criticise, just be polite and choose your words with care. Most that come here have some degree of struggle and can be tender, especially perhaps with a 'baby' they have offered up for approval. It may not be just a story, perhaps an exploration, an affirmation or an exorcism, so be gentle. But please do comment.
Kristina
I love comments
I love to receive comments, but I know that my stories are not as good as some others, so I am glad for the little bit of love I do get. I try and comment as much as I can, but for the reasons others here mentioned (real life interfering, sometimes I don't comment on every chapter of a serial, and if i don't like a story, I usually want to keep that to myself)I cannot comment on every story here.
Just my opinion
I love it when people comment on my stories. I also enjoy commenting, I think it's a huge ego boost when authors, who's stories I've read (sometimes reread-frequently) comment on my stories. I understand though, that it can be hard to make a comment sometimes, especially when someone else has already said everything you wanted to say. My attitude is, so what! The author wants to know you liked his/her story, and it inspires them (hopefully) to continue to write more! I definitely want more stories, and anything I can do to encourage that, I want to do.
I know series stories can be hard to read. Cliffhangers make me crazy, but especially when the story doesn't finish. I'm working on a series story now, but my editor convinced me not to post it until the story is complete.Personally, I hope people like it enough that it won't be complete, like Bike for example. But I will wait until I have the main story done until I post more of it (Sorry for those who liked chapter 1, but it's getting there, Hopefully soon!).
Comment, even if you don't have something great to add. Let the authors know you love their work. It is appreciated!
Wren
Another Comment
Here's my day...
Cruise for new chapters of serials that I am currently following (about 6) or new interesting prospects as I eat my cereal in the morning. I'm usually able to read one before having to put my tablet PC down and get myself off to work.
Case 1: I'm able to finish and make a comment.
Case 2: I finish the read but only have time to hit the kudo button (if I deem the story/chapter worthy).
Case 3: I have to put the tablet into hibernation and hope to finish my reading at lunch.
Case 4: I found multiple stories and had to download them in the hopes of finding time to read them later, usually off-line.
Get home from work and cruise to see what new treasures have been left to discover.
Case 5: I find something, read it and make a comment if the stars align or don't comment if it is part of a serial that I commented on not long ago or don't have the time.
Case 6: I get sidetracked and don't get around to adding comments to stories/chapters found in Cases 2 thru 4 that I might otherwise have commented on (again, if the stars are in alignment).
And finally, working on a tablet PC that doesn't normally have a keyboard attached, I am reduced to typing one-finger (hunt-and-peck style) using the stylus and pseudo-keyboard at the bottom of the display. This makes adding comments a very slow and ponderous operation. Therefore, it takes a higher threshhold for me to be motivated to add my two cents worth, especially when my comment has already been expressed.
So, all my favorite authors and authoresses out there in Big Closet territory, feel priviledged that I have deigned your efforts worthy of comment and taken the trouble to do so.
I also appreciate, but certainly don't expect, feedback on my feedback. I would much rather you devote your time and energy in writing the next chapter or story than writing to little old me. That said though, when you do respond back to me, you somehow, magically, move up to the top of my favorite writers list (you know who you are).
Linda Jeffries
Too soon old, too late smart.
Linda Jeffries
Too soon old, too late smart.
Comments!
Wow! This is the most comments I've seen in quite a while! I myself probally should comment more then I "DO!" This site has some of the best writers in this World whether it is TG or just a Fictional Story w/o TG. I enjoy almost all of your stories, and if I don't like a story I just stay quiet as I don't like hurting anyones feelings here no matter how bad the story is because you do a terrific job just writting them and I'm sure that I'm like other readers here not all subjects are what we want to read but it is not right to say bad things to any writer here just because you don't like the subject thats been written by them. When you say something bad/naster about the writers story then you cause munch heartbreck and that is totally wrong! If you don't like it just be quiet about it and don't read the story as some of these writers have put alot of research into the subject matter that they write about. We don't need to make these writers unhappy to the point that they pull there stories especially when it just a few that are giving those writers a hard time and some of those writers have remove their stories and don't write on are site anymore which has been a great lost to those of us that enjoyed their stories. When this happens especially since at's almost impossile too read all the stories that have submitted here, I sometime like to go back and read those stories at another time and if they have been pulled then you can't do that. Then there are alot of stories here that are incomplete due to real life or something happening to those great authors as age has caught up with them and they are nolonger with us (AM!) or they have lost their muse do to real life problems or their real life dosn't leave them time to write anymore at this time (like Bobbie C., She just does't have the time to give us more as her Job doesn't give her the time to continue her stories at this time!) But I only have one thing to SAY, I Love You All And I wish I could write the way most of YOU WRITE and put these wonderful words together for us to enjoy and the best thing about it YOU ALL DO IT FOR FREE FOR ALL US TO ENJOY, And THANK YOU ALL FOR THAT! Now I will get off my soapbox at this time an shut up! Love You All! Richard
Richard
Appathy? Not that you care what I think, but...
I can’t believe anyone was ever more moved by comments than am I. I savor each,
and respond to every one. When I read these discussions though, I can only see
a startling disconnect. It’s a schism between two very different populations,
with very diverse goals.
Any writer who publishes his work anywhere, is looking for one thing – response.
The needs for this are as diverse as the egos involved; but, to deny the need to
incite some feedback or reaction is an absurdity, cause it just ain’t so. If a
writer does not want feedback they write a diary, and keeps it private.
Readers come here to be entertained. They come here for information. They come
here to ratify and confirm feelings, and to assuage needs that are, likewise, as
diverse as the egos involved. Very few, if any who are not actually writers
themselves, will ever come here with the intention of making us better writers.
For the first group to look for vindication, ratification or sanction from the
second is a strategy lacking in promise. To require it is one doomed to failure,
or at the very least, virtually certain to fall short of the needs and desires of
both groups.
The best a writer can hope for is to reach enough readers as to incite a few of
the very nicest, who are self motivated and generous, and who want to respond. And
Still, even the greatest number of comments on any story, the most we have ever seen,
will always be but a small percentage of people who read it.
If I read a story, I comment. I just don’t have the time or mental faculty to be
able to devote much time to fiction. However, failing a story so vulgar that I dare
not broach the subject in writing – I comment. If the story is good, I reread, and
I comment or PM again. If someone comments to me, I always send a word of thanks.
Always, because not to do so, isn’t nice either.
What also amazes me, is that this need for feedback, is almost always conjoined to a
need for self ratification regarding the quality of writing.
I have friends here, people I like and greatly admire, who continually tout through
whispers and bombast, that the ‘quality’ of writing is in no way indicated by the response
it receives. Naturally, I do not disassociate myself from them in this, for two reasons:
First, because the Quality of Writing is not a universal constant, and there are as many
measures of it as there are… diverse egos involved. Second, the premise should be axiomatic
to any adult of even mean intellectual capacity.
Yet, It is still a spurious argument. This is why.
If it is an author’s intent to write the penultimate literary work, skilled and schooled,
steeped in wisdom and rich with turn of phrase, perfection in grammatical construction and
pure artistry in communicating it’s message… all praise to them. Also,to the five or six
people who will always be the ardent admirers of such seminal literary greatness.
If, on the other hand and author seeks to craft a popular work, to incite emotion, or
indict a popular attitude; if they wish to fabricate a story in prose, the construction of
which is invisible in it’s simplicity, and it’s easy readability, then a just praise to
them as well. What more worthy aim, and unless the comparisons are monetary, how can anyone
say that one is more worthy than the other provided they reach their intended audience?
It is spurious argument, a specious premise, and a spendthrift waste of time to compare
one work to another, when the only meaningful comparisons are between the author’s intent
and their achievements, a thing that few besides the writer can ever really know.
The greatest literary works are those that reach, and inspire, and move others. That is
why 'The Foot Book' by Dr. SUSE wins awards.
For all the rest of us, the only meaningful measures are emotional. Enjoyment.
This I have taken in full measure for myself, both from the countless unique and highly
talented authors here, and from those precious and rare respondents to my own works. I don’t
worry what the story counters actually indicate, because every story is counted just the same,
and that’s the only real requirement for any such system. I couldn't care less if an author
comments more than anyone else on their own stories, or suffers carpel tunnel syndrome from
drumming their callused finger on the refresh key over their own stories in the depths of the
night. My only discontent is in reading a phrase in my story, and realizing how easily I
might have done so much better... If only I’d paid more attention to English class, or written
a little more carefully. But then, this too inspires me.
My greatest contentments come from the few, a very few, who wrote and said “ this moved me
too.†Compared to that, the efforts were meaningless.
Sarah Lynn Morgan
http://bigclosetr.us/topshelf/comment/reply/5379/29560
Bloody hell, Sarah ...
... a hit a palpable hit. :) I know you're a comment whore (I'm sure you confessed to it at least once) so come out writing and score yet again.
Robi
Good on ya', but....
And then you make your argument.
With all respect, Sarah Lynn, and I do respect you, I think there might be a bit of a miss-communication here. You're saying that the oft-repeated argument about comments, or lack of them, goes something like, "... the quantity of the response was in no way indicative of the quality of the story," and then, when you make your argument, you take the word "quality" and make a distinction between that and emotional content or value to the reader, which makes "quality" a synonym for "technical expertise."
I'm not so sure that's valid. I haven't heard anyone claim that, "The quantity of the response is in no way indicative of the technical expertise of the story." That would be a strange thing to say. When people talk about a "quality" soccer player, football player or basketball player, they're talking about his overall "value," of how good he is, not just about his technical skills, and that's how, at least as I interpret it, the argument uses the word.
Now, what does "value" mean in the context of a story? Putting aside the purely literary meaning of how this story affected a genre, or how that story influenced a cause, the value of a story means how much it means to the reader.
Here's where we agree: I also feel that the bottom line for a fiction story is almost always the emotional content, how it made us feel. Without a good story to tell, there's nothing. Technical expertise isn't going to save a bad plot.
Using that definition, I'm sure you'd agree that the quality of a story isn't an either/or, story vs. technical expertise thing because the lack of technical expertise can ruin a story's emotional effect. Technical expertise is the presentation. Of course, there grammar. Grammar wasn't created to keep English teachers employed, it was codified so that people might easily understand each other. And then there are the standard storytelling techniques like decent dialogue, pacing, clarity, characterization, and so forth -- all valuable tools to keep the reader engaged.
So a quality story combines both a good plot and enough technical expertise to at least make it palatable to the reader.
Now, for the basic quality vs. comments argument:
I don't completely agree with it. I think that the quality of a story, defined as the emotional response of the reader, has a fair amount to do with the amount of comments a story receives, but one can't ignore the other factors, which are at least, if not more important, such as timing, if it goes up as a serial or as a complete story, the length of the story, how long it's been up, if someone has already said what a potential commenter would have said, and maybe most importantly, how "trendy" it is to comment upon.
"For A Girl," by O2bXX on FM is a perfect example. It's a decent story, better than average, but the well over hundred comments it received is mainly due to people jumping on the bandwagon. It just ain't that good. Perhaps the Gold Standard of all TG stories is "Under The Moons Of Eden," by Chris Leeson. It's rightfully acknowledged as a wonderful, powerful, story, and it's on a whole lot of people's favorites list, but compared to many other, far inferior tales, the number of comments for it are pathetic.
Many regards,
Aardvark
"Happiness is when what you think, what you say, and what you do are in harmony."
Mahatma Gandhi
"Happiness is when what you think, what you say, and what you do are in harmony."
Mahatma Gandhi
A question of interests.
No, I better not.
What a load of.....
...is strongly discouraged on this site, because it's not polite and is far more likely to discourage a new author than a supposed lack of comments.
I think *every* story gathers a least some comments, which is a vast improvement on the real world of authorial commerce. There, to even have your little book or short story reviewed by *anyone* is a major accomplishment, not quite like an Oscar, but nearly.
In my real life (before I retired) I was a writer, got paid for it and everything, which was very nice indeed. In years of publishing, I can count the total number of people who wrote on the fingers of two hands, although I included my web site and e-mail address in every book. I did get reviewed, and many reviews were quite positive, but what really kept me working was that I got paid.
It's very hard to make a living at writing, and getting harder these days, so in the end what makes one write is that one wants to do it.
Cheers,
Puddin'
Words that I speak, though they are only breath, are immortal.
--- Sappho of Lesbos
-
Cheers,
Puddin'
A tender heart is an asset to an editor: it helps us be ruthless in a tactful way.
--- The Chicago Manual of Style
First, as an author here, I
First, as an author here, I enjoy receiving comments on my stories as much as anyone. That said, I would never chastise readers for not commenting (Hey, you said you wanted comments - so I'm commenting). I would rather have a few comments that are from the heart, than many comments dashed off just to avoid a sense of guilt. Just my personal preference.
Second, as a reader here, I suffer from a pretty narrow range of tastes, a rather strong lust for novelty, and far too little free time for reading fiction (I wish all of the preceding were not so, but find myself shackled by grim reality). Combined, these factors add up to sometimes going for weeks without reading a single story here (which makes for some pretty dull weeks). And I don't consider it fair to comment on something I haven't read. Although I guess I could...if you really want me to... :)
And finally, as an omniscient being (albeit trapped in a deformed body on this circus of a planet), I'll leave you with this riddle...
QUESTION: What is the one sure-fire way to guarantee more comments on your stories?
ANSWER: Novelty. Show something new. Or something old done in a new way. (Betcha weren't expecting that, now were ya? Just serves to prove my point...)
- vessica (sees all, knows all, scares all) b
Right now...
...I have very little to say that would be of worth to anyone else, or I have little energy to spare to even tend my own misery, or I simply cannot think of a way to phrase things that would not either cause harm somehow, or exacerbate a situation, or just simply would not be appreciated, either because the opinion would be very unpopular or because it would be of supreme disinterest to others.
I have been informed by several people that I am unwelcome to comment or engage in discourse as well, and despite attempts to push myself past that, it's hard, and when my emotional state is low it's nigh impossible. I hope that the fact that I have continued to try says something good about me, but that is for others to determine.
Now, to determine whether or not to actually post this, and, if I do, whether or not to leave it posted...
-Liz *tired and... grey...*
-Liz
Successor to the LToC
Formerly known as "momonoimoto"
Guilty as charged but...
I used to comment a lot more than I do nowadays. There are basically three reasons.
- I am busier than I was and don't have time to read much anymore.
- Recently there have been many stories that have subject matter I don't particularly feel like reading about. Superheroes, Magical Transformations, bodysuits, and Forced Feminization are my least favorite story types. So when a majority of stories are of those kinds, I end up reading even less. When the superhero wave blows over, I'll get back into it, I'm sure.
- When there are serials with many episodes I start reading them and continue until I come across an episode I don't like for some reason. I then stop reading that series. This is a vulnerability of the series format; a bad episode in the middle means many readers won't see excellent episodes later. Single stories don't have that problem. When there are many stories posted that belong to serials that have gone sour on me I can't find anything to read.
In other words, it's not really that I comment less; The problem is mostly that I read less.
- Moni
Apathy
Apathy, what a great name for a girl! I'd love to see more names like that. "Hello, this is my daughter, Irony." "There's my principal, Ms. Angst." And remember that famous Latin actress, Melancholia Estrogenia?"
Seriously, though, comments do mean a lot. One has to have a reason to write. If one is only writing for oneself, then I would argue that there isn't much reason to post it online. I sure wouldn't write in a vacuum.
Aardvark
"Happiness is when what you think, what you say, and what you do are in harmony."
Mahatma Gandhi
"Happiness is when what you think, what you say, and what you do are in harmony."
Mahatma Gandhi
I do understand that a lot
I do understand that a lot of the authors that post here would like to have more comments. It's a good feeling when people comment and say "I really like what you created!" And I do try to post a comment when I really like a story. But... when all I can say is "the same thing a dozen other people have said"... it seems dumb to post my comment.
Oh, and I won't post a comment criticizing a story. If I don't like a story, I won't post a comment saying "bah, stupid story, shouldn't read this".
I also won't post a comment complaining about bad grammar, lack of/improper use of punctuation, or 'shudder' 'spelling mistakes'! If somebody was brave and kind enough to post their creation for the rest of us to read, it would be downright rude of me to publicly complain about how they forgot to use an apostrophe in line 48 and forgot to capitalize the first word of line 94.
(However, the next time I see someone write "shutter" when the proper word is "shudder", I shall scream and gnash my teeth whilst I pull out the little remaining hair I have.) ((But I still won't comment on it!))
Some days you're the pigeon, some days you're the statue
Thanks from the bottom feeder
Many thanks for all of those who have commented.
If it means that some people think a bit about commenting then my work is done.
As for Omega Girl, I appear to be a bottom feeder and I hide behind a mask. Well I would need an oxygen mask to be a bottom feader, so I had better put an order in. I wonder if Amazon sells them?
Oh, by the way Omega Girl, how about if you let uus know your real name? Oh no, that won't happen as you are like the rest of us, hiding our true identity.
That might mean that you feel that you are close to a bottom feeder and hiding behind a mask, but I don't think so, I just think that you are tarring everyone with the same brush.
Bottom feeder
"I would need an oxygen mask to be a bottom feeder".
Not if you were a super-hero, you wouldn't....
Penny :)
Votes, Most Popular List
Personally, I used to read - or at least look at - those stories which got a lot of votes. God help me, I might be a bestsellers' list whore, but it WAS one of the reasons I looked at a new author's work, here or on any literature site.
Removal of the Voting feature and the Most Popular index removed this sorting feature. It also removed a little of the thrill of publishing - that little milestone of counting happy readers, of seeing actual numbers.
It was a loss I would not have anticipated, but I miss that small pleasure. And - truth - removing that small feedback loop reduced my overall participation as a reader/writer on this site.
There were other, outside events that influenced me, but really, truely - I miss that Most Popular list. A lot.
Now, I maybe look at a story with an intriguing title, or one that's long enough (I like more than a few minutes' entertainment)... but usually I just pop in to see if one of my old favorite authors has posted something new, or to see if a title will grab my attention.
It's not apathy, but the absence of some means of determining general interest by others means that I am less likely to notice a story. And comments are only going to be made by readers who notice - and then read - a story.
Many, many great books go unnoticed. Trashy novels are often read by millions.
Michelle
Votes, Most Popular list.
I completely agree with Michelle. I miss those features because they were
a very real way for people to give feedback without fear of reprisal, or fear
that they didn't have a unique comment. It was also a source of a very real
and personal pleasure for me, with a similar satisfaction to that from nice
comments.
I'd look at the 'This Week' listing, Then votes/comments, then authors. That's
all the time I had. I just can't waste the time to read a badly written story.
My personal time is just too short these days
If the Kudos thing is just the same, then the only point seemed to be in
taking away years of Author's efforts. The discussions must have weighed in
Erin's decision not to fix it, but it was a very good way to find worthwhile
stories. That being said, I'm sure the Kudos thing will be a good way to do so
again in another year, but then, what was the point?
In fairness to Erin, I'm sure the thing was giving her fits, and I don't blame
her any sigh of relief, but if it was fixable, It's loss took away a lot of the
enjoyment for me as well.
Sarah
Writing: many different things to each of us.
I only comment on stories that I have something good to say about. Some authors take a path that I am either not interested in, or I find distasteful. I am sure that they would not want me to tell them that they are a pervert, or that they sound like a broken record.
It is pretty clear to me that my stories have a pretty narrow audience, and believe me, having never really marched to the sound of the drummer, I can take it. In fact, fuck the drummer. You'd think that most T folks would like get that.
Often, when we write, our work is a catharsis for our pain; some of mine was. I just don't think that every author can expect to draw a large audience. I used to mainly just look at the "reads" counter.
Look folks, the site is free, FREE, and as far as I am concerned, FREE does not mean you get whining rights. Be thankful for what you get. I remember the world before the internet. Anyone want to go back to that?
You know, besides sitting in front of the computer all day long, you can do yoga, go for a walk, scrub the floor, do the dishes, take a hot bath ...
Gwendolyn
My comment(s)
I like comments.I try to respond to them, even if it is only a general note,because if someone has taken the time to write one,it is common courtesy to say thank you. I write very few comments, because what may have to say is usually already covered.
No biggy, I just try and be polite. Hope that offends nobody....
lots of comments :)
Don't know why one shouldn't comment?
If you read it, I think it's a nice thing to do?
Gives the author some boost, make her write some more, and generate responses to what you write too.
That is, if it's something you have an opinion on, that others have an opinion, that others ha ....
To expect the writer to tell you "Thnx !!!" every time you write a comment seems a little presumptuous, that they wrote it must be their way of sharing with you, don't you think?
As for being anonymous when writing this :)
I don't care. The question was a good one any which way.
And yeah, I find kudos boring, but if Erin had introduced negative too?
Now that would surely have generated comments :)
A comment can make an authors day if it's good.
Destroy it if its bad, so thread easy there.
Everyone is different, we don't all come out of one mold.
But all authors loves a comment.
Cheers
Yor
I find for myself I get some
I find for myself I get some of my best ideas from reading what people have to say about the stories that I am posting. There are times though when I check the comments and find maybe one or two comments and something like 40+ Kudos. This makes me wonder why I am investing the time and energy to write a story and then ask someone to edited it so that its easier to read. Like many authors here I write because it's something that I enjoy doing and it feels good to know that people are enjoying stories that you have wrote.
Cain129