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Tolerance is a strange thing.
The other day I was "trapped" in a rural part of our state with extremely limited radio reception. In other words I was forced to listen to a big fat idiot or drive endless miles with no radio to ease the boredom. This highly successful ranter stated, "The oil spill in the Gulf is equal to a drop of oil in a bathtub."
Given the unprecedented damage that has already happened and surely will happen such a statement seems to rise to the level of sedition -- to me. To others it passes as common sense. The US constitution seemingly gives rights about spouting your opinions and those rights are stretched to the max.
Anyone who has read Peaches knows where I stand on tolerance, but isn't being intolerant of the intolerant just as big a problem? This "Stan bashing issue" is nowhere near cut and dried -- and certainly not something that can be easily condemned.
I have never been stalked by Stan.
I've heard the "rumors" first hand from one individual, a good friend who was, in her opinion, stalked --- and second hand from others. His actions might well be no different than any other horny male -- and misconstrued, as is one expressed opinion. The person who felt "stalked" hasn't taken part in the verbal bombs dropped on Stan.
On the other hand, it is undeniably the duty of anyone who spots flames to alert people to the "Fire" -- even in a crowded theatre.
Again, this doesn't appear to be a black and white issue. There seems to be several who actively wish Stan would find a different hangout. Perhaps those who are so adamant that Stan is being mistreated on BC missed the abuse heaped on him on FM. Now that was cruel. And, in my opinion, the attacks weren't coming from the same people who are directing comments at him on BC.
I've suggested in other blogs that this issue needs to be understood and asked for public clarification.
Some of the comments in today's blog are spot on and some are just pompous puffery. They seem to call for total tolerance of Stan and his issues while asking for those who have issues with Stan to cease and desist. Isn't that illogical? If those people are wrong in how they feel, they certainly could be characterized as having issues. Why are their issues no less protected than Stan's
Obviously there are two sides to every story. What surprises me is that Stan never seems to tell his side.
In the US system of justice it is consider unfair to question a witness inappropriately. No one should have to answer a question like, "When did you stop beating your wife?" Yet a wife beater wouldn't seem to have the same rights as someone who doesn't . . . in a just society.
Jill
Comments
My Two Cents
This began when I posted a few stories at Fictionmania that ruffled a few feathers. Funny thing is that those same stories are here and have not ruffled any body's feathers. I admit that I may be socially inept, but I do my best to be a friend to anybody. I for one want to publicly apologize to Erin and the Big Closet Family. And I ask for those who have been sniping at me to stop.
May Your Light Forever Shine
May Your Light Forever Shine
Oh yeah...I remember that...Pay close attention to the timeline
Posted by stanman63 on 06/10/2010 at 09:36:20
Subject: Please
Message Body:
I know that I have hurt some of you with my stories. Please forgive me. I promise to treat the subject of rape, differently
From:
stanman63
(Block user)
To: Belle Meade
Subject: I apologise
Date: Sat, 2010/04/10 - 2:27pm
Yes (EDITED) But for you, I will stop putting them in my stories.
The Rose-3
Submitted by stanman63 - Posted on 2010, June 23 - 6:15pm
The Rose Part 3
By Stanman63
Thanks To JennaFL For Proofing And Nora Adrienne for
editing!
Synopsis:After a violent rape, Charlie's best friend, and family help him to get even with the rapist, and he finds the girl within.
I love the internet...You know the expression? "Once you say something it can't be unsaid?" Very true in cyberspace.
But just so you know, this is the last time I say anything to you either directly or indirectly. You didn't just ruffle a few feathers. Pay attention, just in case defense counsel objects. You brought up the subject of FM, so it's fair game. The reviews of your "Tragedy of the Spirit" posting there from nearly the first chapter questioned why you posted the entire series without giving Prairie Girl credit. The reviews all look foolish, since after you posted nearly every chapter, you were called out over here in a comment when you complained HERE how you were being treated over THERE. MR. Ram told you to see him and he'd help to get the author credit for her put up. It was only after you posted the series in its entirety that it was changed to give credit for her own life.
Tragedy of Spirit problems at FM
Submitted by Mr.Ram on Sat, 2010/05/01 - 11:13pm.
I've sent Stan a PM and offered to set things straight at FM for him.
Mr. Ram
http://bigclosetr.us/topshelf/blog/19500/would-you-believe-t...
Reviewed by Emile Zola on 01/04/2010
Autobiographical? This story was written by the protagonist as an autobiographical piece and posted on another website. The author here is re-publishing it, nothing else. Compare the synopsis with the body of the story and you find a vast difference in writing style. Compare the work this author has posted here and this story and it is obvious that they are just re-publishing it with their name as author. Not very nice, I'd say.
Reviewed by DiamondGrrl on 01/01/2010
Wait a minute. If this is an autobiography, why is it 'by Stanman'?
And here's my all time favorite.
Reviewed by Jennifer on 01/04/2010
You are so courageous to write and publish this. Thank you.
In nearly five months, you didn't even bother to correct this woman's perception.
Ask the two women you approached to join you for role play in a gay chat room if they felt like you were trying to be their friend.
Oh...they saved the messages you sent them.
Don't worry about me sniping; I promise that I will not comment on anything you write or blog or comment on again. And unlike you, I keep my word. Have a nice day! Belle Meade
Drea...doll face...
Don't you know that the devil is a liar? You are such an innocent in this world of indifference. Never change and always keep writing. It's the only way!
Mea the Magnificent
Okay
Jill, I have a great deal of respect for you. You have helped me to I hope become a more cluey writer. Better? Not my call. I saw all the crap on FM and Karens comments. Yet that's FM, BC is to me something more. I posted a comment on the other blog some time ago, an hour..two? Whatever, shortly thereafter Stan posted a story, a romance... and a comment or two on other stories. So okay the guy is an inept social misfit. Does he deserve to be pilloried? I accept that some here are emotionally fragile, hell, right now I'm not at my best for a whole bunch of reasons.
I repeat if anyone has a serious bitch with Stan, say so. Does Stan with all this going on around him have the slightest clue or care? I have no idea. But it doesn't actually matter. He got bumped from Crystals, used to use all capitals. He came here, he got bumped for whatever reason. Then came back with a sightly different tag. If there is anything to say he should be shot....well okay. Not my call. But as is I am disgusted by the carry on and quite frankly I am very close to pulling everything I have here and leaving. Stan is a side issue, the principle is far more. I am a misfit, if one is not welcome am I? show me something that says this fool is worthy of all this attention when he quite plainly is blind to it.
I for one have just about had it. You think I jest, you don't know me.
Kristina
Fair Enough Kristina
I agree, we are all "social misfits" in one way or another. Last night I went to a Twin's baseball game. 40,000 people. Great people watching. I started looking at people with a critical eye. Guess What? Only a few weren't weird looking in one way or another. Look at the great masterpieces and you'll see all sorts of imperfections on the faces of the people.
Some one once said, "Let those amongst you without sin cast the first stone."
Yet --- some people are of the mindset that Stan represents a threat. They fear for others on the site. That doesn't seem overtly irrational to me.
Yet - - - it's only been a few years since cross-dressers were considered a threat to society -- many wouid like to return to that kind of thinking.
As the movie said It's Complicated.
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
A good reason why we should be careful commenting online
I agree in general free speech applies not just to those you agree with but to also those you disagree with. That is in the highest traditions of this country.
That is why I suggested using the ignore feature Erin has provided as it is a easy way to avoid aggravation. Freedom of speech implies freedom to not listen as well.
I choose to not use the ignore feature as I wish to get a wide range of opinions. I, as much as I don't like to admit it, am not omnipotent or perfect and just maybe those who write stories I don't usually like or say opinions I disagree with might have something worth reading. I can and have been wrong before.
BUT, and this is where the free speech argument breaks down in the case of BC, this not a public square, this is a privately owned web site and properly under the control and whim of Erin it's owner. She has the right and power to demand we follow her *Terms of use* policy so long as it is within the limits of the law.
Please keep in mind this is all MY perception of things here and I am not nor do I have the right to speak for Erin. This is solely my opinion, got it?
Simply put, Erin IMHO requests we conduct ourselves in a civilized manner. We are essentially guests in her home and thus she has the right to kick us out or deny us entry. Erin has been quite generous in her time, money and tolerance of our occasional laps in judgment. She has been supportive of vigorous *discussion* so long as it does not become a flame war. But there are limits and it is reasonable for us to be called to task when we exceed those reasonable limits.
Put yourself in the mind of a newbie here. What would you think of negative comments on other commentators or their writings? What if you saw the same few people making these negative comments and often about the same few others here? Would it make you hesitate to joint the BC community?
I am not against strong divergence of opinion and I am not an advocate of this being the *Special Olympics* of TG writing IE everyone gets a medal. But civility please! It is possible to criticize without being mean spited or coming off as so.
My two cents.
John in Wauwatosa
John in Wauwatosa
Bad behavior should not be tolerated... however...
Jill,
As you say it is not a black and white issue.
Stalking:
Certainly stalking crosses a line, and yes I've heard the rumours as well. Such things are best handled by Erin and the site admins. If they happen, bring it to them, no one should have to put up with that, regardless of whether it is Stan or someone else doing the stalking.
Writing Quality
Big Closet does not have minimum standards on quality of writing, and while no one has to read a poorly written story, and one is certainly encouraged to offer constructive criticism on how to improve a story, derisive attacks on writing quality are not welcome. They simply discourage the writer, and more importantly other's that are considering making a first effort.
If an author makes no attempt to improve, then we as readers simply do not have to continue to invest our time reading their works. That is by far more effective, if hit counts and comments are minimal, they will either improve or move on.
Unpopular Story Themes
Stan or anyone else posting stories with themes we don't like, I think has to be tolerated here, as long as they are not illegal, or in some way cross Erin's guidelines.
I acknowledge that the light treatment of rape in many if not all of his stories is unfortunate. I am no psychologist, so I don't pretend to have any idea what is going thru his mind when he writes these things.
But taken along with the fact that many of his comments on other stories simply miss the mark, and show that he clearly does not grasp the deeper or more subtle concepts, I think it is entirely possible that it is simply his way of coping with whatever situation happened or he believes to have happened in his past. Equating it with something that can be wiped away with a shopping trip may just be his way of handling some trauma that he simply cannot cope with, or it could be something completely different, I have no way of knowing.
I would say that I don't care one way or the other, except it isn't true. Regardless of whatever the motivation for writing these stories might be for Stan, it is likely that there is something that needs to be worked thru. If that is the case, I would hope that he will find help from a competent professional.
Comments from left field
While it can be frustrating as an author and a reader to read a comment that is clearly indicating that the commenter has missed the point entirely, is this really an intolerable behavior? Do we really want as a community to discourage people from writing comments? I think they are further evidence of a person that simply does not grasp subtleties, and by the way means we should be more tolerant, as it is clear he is at least trying. More to the point, attacking such comments may lead to some other insecure newbie from being afraid to say something lest he too be jumped on for being irrelevant. As an author, that would really be something I would never want to happen.
Sniping and Personal Attacks
These are a clear violation of the Big Closet Rules, and therefore should not be tolerated. Allowing this to continue, simply will lead to too many flame wars, and can destroy an online community.
I hate that we are even having to have this conversation, because it seems in itself mean. But it has come up, several times now, so it has to happen, and I think it is better to be open about it then all of this sniping and whispering that has been going on.
Stan, I'm sorry that this has come to this point. You need to understand of course, that your writing touches on some pretty raw nerves in our community, as there have been far too many that have experienced these traumatic events. As you say above, you are aware that your social skills are somewhat lacking at times. I have a son with social deficits and it can be difficult, but it can be worked on. I hope that whatever your challenges are that you can find help to work thru them.
So to answer your blog Jill, sure there are things that can go over the line. And when they do, like the rumored stalking, they should be called out. But in general the tendency at least from the masses here, should be towards tolerance first, alert Erin and the staff of anything questionable, and then ignore from there.
Hugs,
Kristy
Sincere Uncritical Acceptance
I must have missed the fireworks; however, it is not uncommon for one person to rankle others, we are a diverse society.
I've taken on a new bent "Sincere, Uncritical Acceptance" I've been taught this for the past four years and have begun to see the results of following those three words.
Judge not lest ye be Judged, we as humans have the nature to make ourown opinion based on first impressions. We've been told to put our best foot forward as we are presenting our true selves.
If we learn to see the inner person and accept them for who they really are we can get past that first impression and move on in our lives.
I have low self esteem because of peoples interactions with me and telling me I seem to be very brilliant but why do I act so stupid.
I did not learn socialization skills as a child, I was too busy being abused to learn how to intermix with others.
Sometimes we need to look beyond what we see and think to see what is really before us.
People with mental illnesses are barraged with stigmas daily. People who are transgendered are judged mostly by what Jerry Springer presents on television. There is no group who isn't judged by how they act or what they represent.
Sincere Uncritical Acceptance is from a grass roots movement group who is working on stamping out stigma for the Mentally Ill. I belong to that group and with those three words i haver interacted with police departments, colleges, high schools, other foundations and associations and have been well accepted for who I am.
I served in the military for a twenty year career, I was a defender of the freedom of speech and I do hear things that are not politically correct and so mundane I feel saddened by the things I hear, BUT, I would again defend the freedom of speech and the right for others to speak about how they feel. I may not agree with it but I did fight for their right to speak up.
If someone writes something I don't like I don't read it. The stories at BCTS are part of a Chef's salad, Eat what you want and if you don't like something in the salad leave it alone.
Jill Micayla
Be kinder than necessary,Because everyone you meet
Is fighting some kind of battle.
Jill Micayla
Be kinder than necessary,Because everyone you meet
Is fighting some kind of battle.
letting go
well I might as well share my story here. When I joined BC, Stan commented on my stories, and being the person I am, I wrote back a PM thanking him. That got us sending messages back and forth, and he offered to help me with stories, and as well he offered to use my real story as the basis of a Transbike story. Then, he asked if I liked "role play" and asked if I would join him on a gay chat site. At first, I was very upset at that, and I probably overreacted to it. Since then, I have decided to let it go, and I dont get involved in the bashing stuff. I dont enjoy stories about rape, so I dont read em, but thats my own taste, and not something I would want to impose on this community as a whole. If Stan, or anyone for that matter, does something inapproprate, let Erin know, and she can deal with it.
The T journey.
Well, from a purely psychosocial (um, is that a word?) point of view, leaving morality out of it, I can understand the fascinaton with rape,control,domination,and power some men experience with stories like that. I used to, way before I tumbled to the reality of my own circumstances, find "Casandra" very fascinating. It was a sophomoric, very immoral, imature rape fantasy. But, as I grew up and began to contemplate the moral consequences for the victim; later finding I was T; transitioning and wearing the shoe on the other foot, I really became guilt ridden and remorseful of ever having read it. Little did I know that many of these stories out there on the internet are actually true or based on real happenings. Finding the truth, I cried for days over it.
The JC Duggard story really changed me in a percentage so large that it has be be expressed in exponential numbers. It was easy in the before time, when I could blithely tell myself that it was fantasy; not real; just the project of some over sexed college student. The stories of real women I know who were caught in extremely abusive situations just broke my heart. One of my best girlfriends told me of her being forcibly anally raped by her then BF just made me want to kill him. Only my experience in Law Enforcement with domestic disturbances stilled my hand. He is twice her size and there was no posibility of her resisting him. If JC Duggard's heartbreaking story does not change us, then we need to see if we are actually homosapiens. She just got $20 Million, and I think it was not nearly enough. There are some people who need to spend lots of time where she did, in her situation. Let's see how they like it?
Time and again, I tried to endear myself to my tormentor. But he never failed to shatter the pedistal I tried to put him on. I just can't do nc anymore; though many of my girlfriends speak of wanting a strong, dominant BF. But they want one who is all that and protective, stable, benevolent, loving and caring too.
Khadijah