TopShelf TG Fiction in the BigCloset!
Apologies to my readers. I forgot to add the detailed map to VotV #78.
It has been fixed now. I have also included it below for reference.
Map courtesy of Julia Phillips
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Comments
Good thing that this Post did not come ...
... Just after:
T minus 5 Main engines ignite
T minus 4
T minus 3 Main engines at 60%
T minus 2 Main engines holding at 60%; Umbilical release
T minus 1 Gantry retract. Solid boosters ignite
T Zero Hold down bolts severed. Main engines to 100%.
We have liftoff to ... Wait, wait! Why are their maps still here?
surely
Faralan would be on the River Faral not the Fa? Likewise i would expect Pakmal to be on or very close to the Pak (see also Paktrin)
Examples in Earth geography would be Mainz at the point the Mainz joins the Rhein, Monmouth where the Mono joins the Wye, Avonmouth where the Wiltshire Avon joins the Bristol Channel etc, etc. Place names especially those associated with rivers have a specific form the world over, ysing the river as an identifier such as Frankfurt am Main, Henley on Thames, it could be an association with a crossing or other feature, Axebridge for example, an important settlement of some sort like Exeter on the Exe or Kingsteignton on the Teign. i've used mostly UK examples but we have the same in most vocabularies Maastricht in the Netherlands is on the Maas, Donauworth in Bavaria on the Donau (Danube), Saarbrucken Germany on the Saar, Kostrzyn nad Odrą in Poland is on the Odrą (Oder), Sheffield is on the Sheaf (although it joins the bigger Don below the castle) and so on. Other features can be used too of course eg Stow on the Wold. Wotton under Edge, Clifton, Interlaken.
I've never come across anywhere following a naming pattern as you have and given they are all descended from earth i cannot believe they would not use a naming system already familiar to them.
Just my two pennath.
Madeline Anafrid Bell
As always, it's complicated
When I first began writing SEE I was just (as you do) pulling names out of thin air. Until the caravan reached the Lookout I didn't even have much idea of what was at the end of that first journey. So most names in the early story were thought up on the fly with no rhyme or reason to them, including people's names.
As the scenario began to clear I did put some effort into having a system for names but it did not become settled for maybe thirty to forty chapters, with the result that there are many, many anomalies. Given the chance to redo SEE, which I would probably refuse point-blank, I would make greater effort in consistency of naming. Personally I think that many of the names have their own charm which is part of why the story works so well.
There are some threads running through the names which imply some kind of backstory. Dekarran is a corruption of Decarinium, a name given by the original Roman settlers of the region. Names ending -dor are frequently where two or more rivers meet, such as Teldor and Tranidor (but Viridor breaks that). Names ending '-go' such as Haligo and Moxgo originally represented a border town but of course few still are. Most states are named after the major city in that state although for Palarand (the end of the Palar) that was complicated by the split caused by the Great Storm, leaving half the state north of the river.
I did not name all the places in the stories. At first, we kept within the bounds set by Yod and the sea but when the current story had to move beyond, Julia and I went through a rapid phase of drawing, redrawing, naming and renaming locations, states and places. This has resulted in the names you have noted.
There are odd themes running through those names: Names ending in -bek are typically of Faralmark, although their capital is named Bibek not Faral or Faralbek. In fact both Faral and Fanir (the original states) have been split into two by the Sirrel and have had to adopt new names. Faralan is on the river Fa and both were chosen by Julia. Before that split Faralan would have been in the state of Faral.
Pakmal town was on the river Pak but, remember, rivers in flat valleys tend to meander and what was once true now no longer is. There have been remarks in previous chapters about places that once were on the Sirrel before it moved, even Joth is going through this process although at the moment they still have a port.
Paktrin is almost certainly a mistake. It was given a name fairly recently and I overlooked the fact that it would be in the wrong country! The reader is invited to think of a backstory where Paktrin was, in the past, part of Pakmal before the river shifted or somebody won (or lost) a local war.
A final point: the locals are not all descended from Earth stock. The inherited languages will have shifted through the centuries, with locals forgetting why some things were named what they were - and why others are still named as they are. Some of this will become a plot point in a few chapters time.
Penny
Yep, complications abound
First off though, I will gently point out that it may not be a reasonable standpoint to require Earth naming conventions to be applied to a totally different planet somewhere else entirely!
By your 'logic', then the poor unfortunately deceased Helen would HAVE to have been a woman.
I deem it necessary to do some things that are NOT Earth-thinking and Earth-habit, in order to retain some mystery and a slight level of confusion.
As well as engendering gentle reminders that we are on a DIFFERENT PLANET.
SURELY, that is a reasonable attitude.
... ... ...
As for names then, to MY mind, what we have is very logical and structured.
And a result, in many instances, of 'going with the flow'.
As Faralan had already been taken, and to change that would involve redrawing several maps and re-editing a dozen or more entries in the Index, I decided I needed to come up with a new name for the capital of Faralmark.
Now, what should it be? Hmmmmm...
You should be pleased that actually, this time, I chose something along YOUR lines of thought.
In South London, there is a 'town' called Beckenham (which used to be quite famous for the pre-Wimbledon tennis tournament). The local stream is called the River Beck.
Synonyms for a river include:
stream
rill
brook
rivulet
runnel
freshet
canal
burn
bourn
and
beck.
This to-be-named capital sits by the confluence of two rivers.
The Chivans (Romans) held sway 'here' many moons ago.
Let me see - Latin (the language of the Romans) has given us many words with the prefix 'bi-' for 'two'.
Two rivers thus became Bibek.
... ... ...
As for rivers along the way, then I needed to provide names for them for presentation on the maps.
But why would the various countries have borders where they are?
Why, because of the rivers that flow down from the uplands above the shoulders of the Great Valley! Natural boundaries in other words.
Some rivers are (would have been) straddled by countries. Some countries have borders that are formed by said rivers.
Maybe the main river had swept closely enough to the cliffs of the Great Valley and created a narrow littoral there. Another natural feature that might form a boundary between countries.
As has been mentioned in the Tales, then there were the Chivans and they were followed by the Habarans - which empire broke up into various autonomous countries. Local wars, movement of the river(s) and so on will have created a certain amount of chaos in the previously orderly lands. Maybe financial difficulties and/or distant travel requirements made some of these entities break up.
I like to think that what is now four countries (Upper Faral, Faralmark, Upper Fanir and Lower Fanir) were once one entity but one that ultimately proved to be too unwieldy to govern, given the slow pace of transport. It's capital would have been named Faralan. And it would have chosen the names it called its rivers. It broke up into Fanir and Faral, that being the most sensible division as dictated by the geography. Then the former broke up into Upper and Lower, and the latter into Upper Faral and Faralmark.
It broke up, but maybe the river names remained.
The idea, as Penny referred to, is to allow the readers to imagine their back and side stories (hoping they can ditch their reliance on Earth-bound points of view).
... ... ...
So 'surely' it is permissible for an author (or authors) to apply THEIR logic to their creations.
And, 'surely', I intend to continue to do MY thing in the future.
Joolz.