Author:
A fair number of the stories here are about a character wanting to "be a woman" (or be a "girl") or being transformed into one. I do a lot of thinking about gender and deconstructing it, so it occurred to me: what exactly is it that these characters want? (Not that they would all agree, of course.) People talk about "man" and "woman" as if it were obvious what we mean, as if maybe the categorization of people into "man" or "woman" were a physical property of the universe, but that kind of avoids the question. (I'm reminded of the recent stories of politicians trying to define "woman.")
A thought experiment: one of these characters who is convinced that life is not worth living if they can't be a woman is kidnapped by some aliens whose biology and culture doesn't have the notion of sex or gender at all. They have no clue what we mean by "man" or "woman." They have the technology to transform people -- they could turn the character into a frog, for instance -- and they would like to help this poor suffering character by transforming them into a "woman," but the character has to describe exactly what things they want changed, without resorting to gender terminology, or if they do, they have to define each such term in non-gendered terms. Maybe these aliens have never seen a woman, so the character can't say, I want to look like X.
I suspect that different characters would pick different things: some might see menstruation as an absolute requirement, others might not care, or would be happy to do without it. Or, if they say they have to have breasts, then: how big? How functional? What shape? (Note that real cis women aren't alike in this respect.) Basically, what things are essential to being what the character thinks of when they say they have to be a woman?
What would your character(s) say? For that matter, what would you say?
Comments
It probably wouldn't do to ask the character
I'd hazard a guess that if it were left up to most of the characters to define what a woman should be, the vast majority of them would end up being a caricature of a woman. What most of us have in our mind's eye of what a woman should be would make a nice patchwork quilt that kind of looked like it was supposed to be a woman. And that's just the physical. Piecing together the emotions and psyche would be a worse mess.
Hugs
Patricia
Happiness is being all dressed up and HAVING some place to go.
Semper in femineo gerunt
Which Time Period
You do realize men and women have evolved over the centuries. And then the idea do the aliens know the definition of anything but have a base idea to start working from as they look at the male? Maybe the picture one thinks of when looking at the surface might be a start but what about the inner workings? Describe the difference between male and female anatomy? Keep in mind your aliens haven't studied females. And as Patty mentioned is our test subject going to stay within the norms?
One of my friends sent me a study in contrast between the ladies fashion norms of 1950 and today. Made me realize why women seek larger breasts isn't always for men's entertainment. Back in the "dark ages" women had the narrow waist, the Hourglass figure. They didn't need large breasts for them to be prominent. A B was nice, a C cup was large. But then there wasn't a fast food or quick stop on every corner. From personal experience, without that Hourglass figure a C even on a small frame isn't that noticeable. In Maximum Warp, Emma gave Jessica a tiny waist. Whether her heroine has extra large breasts and butt would be up to interpretation of the individual at that point. The small waist defined the rest of her figure. Bet the horny males who have grown up in today's society haven't a clue what really defines a woman. Maybe this will help?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epQz4v6uvLM
I'm afraid your aliens are on their own to figure out not only the difference between male and female but what century the difference should be the perfect example of female?
Hugs Asche
Oklahoma born and raised cowgirl
Not a Fan of Almost Naked Women
What is a woman? They need to understand there is no one right or wrong answer. Think of snowflakes and no two alike. If every male had the same idealistic fantasy of the perfect woman there would be a lot of disappointed men and women in the world who never got together. Do we start at the Top. Maybe her golden or auburn hair? Is it short in a pixie cut or long laying over her shoulders and breasts?
See where this is going? Ten thousand descriptions of the "female" and no two alike. Describe her, admirable, adorable, alluring, angelic, appealing, beauteous, bewitching, captivating, charming, classy, comely, cute, dazzling, delicate, delightful, divine, elegant, enthralling, enticing, excellent, exquisite, fair, fascinating, fetching, fine, foxy, good-looking, gorgeous, graceful, grand, handsome, ideal, inviting. All excellent descriptions. Are they the physical descriptions or her inner descriptions that make her a woman? She's more than just the facade on top everyone first judges by the eye.
He's seen a woman but the aliens haven't. Describe something never seen before, something invisible?
I'm going to leave you with one last sample of a "woman". Her kind of figure is years in my past, I'll never see in the mirror ever again no matter how much I diet and exercise. This life cycle is coming to an end and only memories of what was is all that is..
https://www.instagram.com/p/Cm47RADLV-H/
Oklahoma born and raised cowgirl
An excellent question
So many of us on this site want, in some way, to either be a woman or simply look like a woman, yet when a simple question such as this is asked, it makes us think long and hard about what we actually mean. I feel that many want to be not just a woman, but an attractive woman. A woman who is happy and has many friends, and enjoys life. Perhaps, everything that we are not?
But, of course, that is not everything! How many would like to be a woman many years older than themselves, or a woman who is heavily obese, disfigured or disabled? Looking at the writing on this site and FM, very few authors write about such transformations.
As a CD, I am more concerned about passing than about being a woman. As such, I prefer to avoid the female features which get you noticed such as big boobs and high heels, although as someone in the older age range, I prefer middle-age, rather than my own age, even though that would be a virtual guarantee of not being noticed!
I prefer to avoid the female features which get you noticed
Once I got over the concern that someone seeing me would read me as a man in a dress, I started going out to many places en femme. I was never uncomfortable being seen because the people around me simply didn't really pay that much attention... that is until I fell to temptation and bought a mini dress that left a lot of thigh exposed. I decided to go out to breakfast one morning wearing that dress. I went to a local Shari's and as I was walking to the door, there were a group of men approaching from the other direction. I slowed my walk to allow them to enter ahead of me. One of them saw me coming and stopped to hold the door for me, even though I was still about fifteen feet from the door. As he watched me approach, he was checking out my legs. At that point I was uncomfortable.
Didn't wear that dress much after that.
Hugs
Patricia
Happiness is being all dressed up and HAVING some place to go.
Semper in femineo gerunt
I had a conversation about
I had a conversation about passing as a woman today. Only enough makeup to hide masculine features, flat shoes, to keep within an "average" female height, and ordinary almost drab clothes. All to not be noticed when someone walks passed you in the street. To blend in, so someone who passes by would just think I have walked by an ordinary woman.
That is what I would be happy with.
As for defining what a woman is, I asked that on another site and gave up after 200 plus replies and lots of arguing.
Leeanna
Great Question
For me, the answer is what I'm seeking every time I write something new for BC.
I'm working on a new novel now . . . a sequel to Leslie Moore's Taylor. I don't write many stories with protagonists of that age but Leslie approached me to take her start and finish it. I enjoyed her novel so much -- I accepted the challenge.
Taylor has an idea what it means to "be a girl" -- but not everyone around him agrees. That is the main tension of the story.
Jill
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
Post op MtF
Mostly I just write as me, depending upon the circumstances of the story, and my own. Mostly the gender change is involuntary and I mostly don't write about extremely intimate circumstances.
Gwen
The genetics angle
At first, I wondered if the aliens could read human DNA and extrapolate... but that’s not good enough. If you stripped away all your Y chromosomes (the DNA passed from father to son) you wouldn’t be left as a viable human being. The result would be a numerical abnormality (this describes an individual who doesn’t have the normal two chromosomes, which manifests in even relatively mild instances in conditions such as Down syndrome).
Assuming you want to be a healthy, normal woman... can the aliens make clones? If a new, cloned body was made for you from your own stem cells but it didn’t get exposed to the SRY gene at a key point early in gestation, your new body would develop according to the female pattern. Once the new body has matured you can show the aliens the female body and say “there: I want to be like that one” or maybe they can even shift your consciousness over for you – perhaps giving you a neat age regression into the bargain.
This approach wouldn’t allow you to engineer your ‘dream girl’, but you’d be in the body nature might have given you and perhaps that’d be enough for a person experiencing a crisis of gender dysphoria. Mental adjustment would be required afterwards... and that is a recurring theme at certain websites I think we all know!
Best wishes,
Bryony
Sugar and Spiiice – TG Fiction by Bryony Marsh
XXY and other things.
I lived most of my life as a man, but when I found out about my genetics, that was the end of that.
Turner syndrome
There are viable human beings with only one X chromosome and no Y chromosome. It's called Turner syndrome.
Wouldn't this be more or less equivalent to Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome?
Besides, how much of what these people are looking for is solely a product of what kind of body they have, and how much is about the social circumstances or the experiences growing up as the desired gender? (Yes, different people will have different answers.)
For that matter, the body (and especially the brain) is affected by the environment it develops in, so even if you clone yourself as an XX, unless they're able to recreate the uterine environment you developed in (and the environment in your infancy), it might be a rather different person.
Life experiences
This got me to thinking: suppose a 30-year-old who was desperate to become a woman goes through this, the whole cloning and mind-transfer. Now she is a 30-year-old woman.
Who has missed out on a lot of experiences that many characters (and authors?) seem to see as essential. For instance, they will never have been to a Prom as a girl. Would she be satisfied? Or would she continue to pine for the experiences she missed?
A woman’s reach must exceed her grasp . . .
. . . Or what’s BCTS for? :D
Emma
More than the surface . . . .
Some of it’s biology, of course. The difference between the male and female bodies. Even, to some extent, male and female brains.
But the difference between masculine and feminine is a social construct. And there, I think, your hypothetical man-who-wanted-to-be-woman wouldn’t need help from aliens, so long as they fixed the actual biological element.
One of my characters explained my own feelings on the social construct element. I apologize for the lengthy quote, but this is part — a significant part — of what being a woman means to me, in the context of my own society today. Others, of course, are likely to feel very differently.
“You don’t have to look like Chris Hemsworth to be a man. But in our society, you do have to think, and act, communicate and relate in ways that I found deeply unsatisfying.
“And a man was expected to be strong, but in a forceful, dominant way that had no appeal to me. I did not consider myself to be weak, but my strength simply flowed in ways that were not recognized as masculine. I was a shield, a bulwark, a home port. I had no will to dominate, no desire to control. No urge for aggression. I could act hard and tough and when necessary I had done so. But for me it was an act. Like an introvert who could be the life of a party, I knew how to do it. But it drained me. Being a loving and supportive sister, being a caring and compassionate friend . . . these things were the fullest, truest, most life-affirming expressions of my deepest self.
“ . . . . There were limits to how far men wanted to open themselves up, and be open to others. At least in my society in the Year of Our Lord 2020.
“I had male friends, especially in law school. Like Curt. We had been close – or what I had thought of as close. But I could never, ever, have had as meaningful a conversation with Curt as I had had with Nicole, whom I had only known for a few hours.
“And I wanted that. I wanted all of it.
“And I loved the rest too, though I realized now it was less important to me. I loved the pure sensuality of womanhood. The feel of silk against my smooth skin; the moist touch of creamy gloss on my lips; the movement of air against bare legs. The smell of flowers, of perfume. The quiet swish that nylons make when I’m walking in a skirt . . . I loved all of it, reveled in it.”
Emma
Thor???
I'm so "thor" I can hardly walk."
Jill
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
Some a Little, Others a Lot
Life isn't a black and white construct as many wish. Some think all men should be HE MEN. A good example would be professional football players all muscled up, six foot plus. Women should be the exquisite arm candy, beautiful models to accent the man's man as his accessory.
The woman or chef in the kitchen with the baby in the high chair, a boy and or girl at the table is the rock foundation of society but receives little acclaim for her part in society. She handles being a mom, cook, nurse, wife, soccer shuttle van, balances the household and hundreds of other things all day every day. She does it out of love because she's a mom. She can and does out task the highest paid CEO and does it out of love for all those in her envelope of care.
There are millions of females between the arm candy model and the housewife mom who don't fit into either catagory but their own. One can say they are also the basic structure of what makes society what it is. They keep the wheels of society running as doctors, nurses, lawyers, engineers, basically any and all parts of society. Some wear pants, others dresses and or skirts but still the one thing we can say about them is they are female..., usually. Some cross the divide between male and female just as some males do. Society hardly notices and calls them tomboys and they are accepted especially if they are pretty and or cute.
No matter what one's idea of the ideal or perfect female is, they are right and wrong at the same time. No one concept can describe female. Or the male for that matter.
As far as the male and female brain is designed and works, that too is also hard male and hard female with indefinite graduations between the two in billions of lives. Usually an MRI can now be used to determine a female from a male brain if they are hard male or hard female. Again that rascal variable can be in the mix and throws off the results.
Some of the readers posted how DNA can be a mixed bag of marbles. It seems when mom received the blueprints for popping a life out of the chute, not every woman received the same plans. Sometimes it isn't the input data but things got screwed up in the modular construction of life.
Hugs Emma,
Oklahoma born and raised cowgirl
It's a question without a real answer.
Because of the difference between the social constructs that we use to define gender roles, the social and physical constructs we use to define sexual roles, and the biological realities (and myths) that we use to define physical sex, there's really no single answer that can really define man, woman, boy, girl, or any of that in my mind.
I WILL say that, for me, when I use terms like "boy" or "girl," compared to "man" or "woman," I use them as a way to define a separation of a certain innocence in the way that the person would interact with the world: to wit, boy and girl define someone lacking in mental and/or physical maturity that man and woman, to me, imply.
When it comes to defining what those terms mean as a gender role... I honestly feel like a lot of transfic is rather problematic in that regard, in that a lot -- A LOT -- of the stories tend to rely on the assumption of gender extremes to define what is right or wrong for a character. A transgirl or transwoman has to love dresses and makeup and being feminine or else they aren't *really* a woman in a lot of stories, and that's before getting into the implications of subservience/submissiveness or other even more toxic sexual role norms that get emphasized in a lot of stories.
Not that all of that can be entirely written off, mind. For a lot of transfolk, embracing that concept of a gender or sexual extreme is part of rejecting the roles enforced on them by society as a whole, so as problematic as it can be, it's also understandable why a lot of, say, transwomen *would* want to be totally into makeup and dresses and other things that the male archetype that was being pushed upon them implied was too womanly or feminine for them to do.
It's all a bit of a conundrum.
For me, what would I say to the alien species? I would simply ask that they look at my DNA, find the chromosome shaped like a Y, and replace it with the chromosome shaped like an X, and let me have the body that would have resulted had that Y chromosome never been part of the equation. Would I ask for adjustments after? Maybe. I'd most certainly ask for things like a more efficient metabolism and the correction of a few health issues, though none of those are directly related to my sex or gender. Ultimately, though, my goal wouldn't be to be any particular vision of femininity or womanliness: it would just be to be me, but corrected for a biological mistake.
As for my characters? I tend to like to write characters who wouldn't have a simple answer to that question, since most of my characters tend to fall more along the nonbinary spectrum mentally (even if they wind up being socially female for the most part.) Beck from "Princess For Hire" would certainly not be leaping at the chance to be made physically more female, leastways not at the point I left the story off. The main character of the story I'm currently writing is only just figuring out how socially female they are already, and it will be some time before they'll even consider further implications of that.
In fact, for both me and my characters, I feel like a physical correction or change would only be a band-aid placed on what we feel the real problem is: society as a whole's perception of the necessity of, and enforcement of, stratified gender and sexual norms. Changing THAT would be better for everyone: after all, it might not be an instant end to my issues of dysmorphia, but it would certainly make the social implications of correcting said dysmorphia far less complicated.
Melanie E.
Beautifully said
I couldn’t agree with you more, Melanie. All of it, but especially with your last paragraph.
Emma
Head in a Dark Place
It's hard to get to the place suggested by Mel when key politicians deny that the problem exists.
Jill
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
Head in a Dark Place
It's hard to get to the place suggested by Mel when key politicians deny that the problem exists.
Jill
Angela Rasch (Jill M I)
I don't necessarily define
such concepts because we all know what they are anyway and we are meaning a whole way of life. In transitioning I looked something like all the other females which then meant I was able to do things that other females did without appearing out of place. It was about fitting in, it certainly wasn't only about clothes but they were a useful prop in creating what I wanted to project.
Angharad