Warning...Crystal Hall redesign up and while it's not Facebook Timeline awfulness.

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It's bad if you like the simple story listing layout and definitely has more bloat going on. Just a word of warning.

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Disappointing

I'm sorry to hear you don't like the design. But it's more disappointing that you decided to blog about it on BCTS instead of offering feedback in the WU forums or Discord as your first choice.

What about the design is it that you don't like? That its not rows and rows and tables of text? Did you find it difficult to find something? Offer reasonable suggestions and maybe I can fix something that impacts your use of the site. Maybe you're viewing it with a screen size or browser that I didn't test with?

Ultimately, I'm aware that I can't please everyone... and that I don't have a full team of coders and admins working full (or even part) time... but it's always been my policy to take feedback and do what I can to make sure that the authors are supported and that the community can get to the stories, communicate with each other and the authors. This new site offers better opportunities to do that. It does so with updated server support and more recent code and it is more secure.

It also doesn't suffer from years of hacking attempts and use/abuse that has accumulated on the old system, where the database is starting to break down. The choice to start fresh wasn't made lightly... and some of the redesign is a simple matter of 'the old is no longer an option supported by the code base'. Others were design choice.

But either way... I'm sorry to hear that you don't like it. Sorrier that you felt this was the first/best choice in how to share it.

Kristin

If it helps, I can see why

If it helps, I can see why there's a post here. There's no really good place _to_ put comments/suggestions/complaints about the newest site. On the existing site, there's a thread called 'Site Design' in the 'Suggestion Box' sub-forum, but that is discussing the existing site vs the OLD site. I can't find any other thread or sub-forum.

On the newest site, the recommendation is for people to _not create accounts yet_. (unless you're a WhatIf author) Thus leaving no way to provide feedback there.

To me, initially looking at the newest site, the landing page is very 1990's "artist". That is, just a graphic, with no indication of what is being landed upon. Wasted effort just to show off the graphic (to me). Easy enough to bypass with a bookmark, so relatively a non-issue. Moving past that, my first reactions were "That's a lot of pure white", and "Where's the definition?". Even knowing the CSS structure, it feels like the menus aren't set to anywhere in particular (far over to the left), and there's no real separation between elements. That doesn't have to be actual _borders_, but even defining a slight colour shift between text boxes might help.

For the login menu on the right, it's queerly lopsided. The text is centered, but the login boxes are left justified. If the text (at least for the username/password) was centered on the login boxes, it would look less odd.

Further in - If you hit "Read" at the top, the read page is a bit better defined, but the author list is very strange, being staggered, almost as if certain authors are nested under others. (Like interns or aliases)

None of this, to me, is a deal breaker. I don't contribute much to the discussions anymore, and mostly I hit the site to check up on stories and authors periodically. Function over form is most important to me.

I certainly appreciate the effort you put into the site - as I don't pay you for it, I can't exactly insist you do things my way.

BW


I'll get a life when it's proven and substantiated to be better than what I'm currently experiencing.

I think you're missing part of Kirstin's point

In that they were as much upset that this message was left HERE rather than on a place actually related to Whateley in a major way, or even sent directly to her to try and look into.

I would suggest considering sending this message to her as a PM or, as she suggested, discussing it via the Whateley Discord, where it's in a place where it can more easily be commented on by people related to the site itself.

This is not the place to troubleshoot Whateley, when Whateley has its own services.

Melanie E.

Feedback

There are LOTS of ways for someone who is a registered user of the Whateley site to communicate suggestions. True... there aren't many ways for a non-registered user to do so; but that's true of most sites, isn't it? Spammers have pretty much ensured that you don't leave forums, comment panels, PMs and other such things open to the public.The forum section for the purpose is named "The Dean's Office - Suggestion Box" and it is invisible to the public. And that said, the forums also have a section for reporting problems that is available to public/guests who aren't registered. It's moderated. So posts are only visible to me and a couple other 'victims' / volunteers who are willing to deal with a little spam in the hope that we are able to field problems of people trying to register or having problems logging in and can't use the normal methods.

I've also been in close contact with the public Discord channel and the authors and community members who use it through the process of getting the new version of the site running and taking feedback and making corrections almost daily.

Also... there's a difference between posting here attempting to connect to make suggestions or offer feedback... and what actually happened. If this were the only way someone could think to contact me? Ya. Ok. Maybe. But this blog post wasn't an attempt to offer feedback.

Re: your specific response to the design -
Splash page - yes. The splash page is just showing off the cool art. Will that change? Maybe. I don't know. It's possible. If/when money allows, there will be more art and some of it will be for the splash page so its not always the same thing.. I see your point about it not really telling people what's inside / what its a landing page for... but then, I'd point out that 'who exactly is going to the whateley.academy url not knowing what they're looking for'? :) And for people looking for a school of teen supers and fiction about them? Well... the picture seems pretty 'on point' for that. :P Again... I'm not sure it'll stay like that. But its new. We like it. And if people bookmark past it? Well, that would be nothing new, right? Even the 'text' landing page wasn't the most common landing point on the previous site. Most people dropped in on either the forums index or the Recent release page. BCTS has an age of consent (and a selection between two versions of the site) landing page. When was the last time you saw that?

Login Menu text: mmm... yeah, I see a bit what you mean. It looks 'right' when you're logged in. It looks a bit wonky when logged out. I'm not sure what the fix to that might be... maybe a second copy of the module that only shows when you're logged out. Hmm. I'll have to give it some thought.

Author list: Yes. Agreed. And on some screen sizes its stranger than others. I'm of two minds on this. One - I like having the author avatars on the panel. But what's happening there, is that the avatar images are 'nesting' to avoid taking up as much vertical space. And... it DOES that. Sort of. The alternative is a nice orderly vertical line of just author names, without avatars. For the moment? I've left the avatars on... if the oddity of the format drives enough people batty... I'll turn them off.

Thanks for taking the time to offer feedback... but again, I wish it were actually on the Whateley site... instead of here.

Despise Discord generally and was a poster on original forums.

With Discord's TOS regarding privacy. Regarding the new forums I remember it either did not have HTTPS at one point or was asking for personal information to sign up which made me uncomfortable. I didn't bother after that.

Regarding the layout I just flat out prefer the basic text link layout where I could just adjust it to display 50 stories or more at the time. Six at a time with graphics is bloat to me(I suppose I need to get my browser set up to disable them). I wouldn't care if this could be changed to the old layout but it can't unless you log in I suppose.

So with said factors at the top being a factor I posted here for some who might be Whateley fans as well to give them a heads up as well to express my comments.

Let people make their own call?

Instead of trying to scare people off because YOU don't like the new site... why not let them make their own decision. You are making sweeping statements that make it sound like you gave the new site a good investigation and found it worthless for anyone to use. But even the points you are making don't reflect the parts of the design you don't like accurately... and you completely ignore the various features that have been put in that are improvements to the old site.

And regarding privacy/personal information. Neither I or any member of the staff of the Whateley site care who you are as long as you are not registering with us for the purpose of spamming or hacking (malicious use of the site or harming the community using it). For that reason, we require a working email address and the system provides me with your IP address. I check those against various databases and if you come up clear, your account is approved.

The system requires three things for you to access it. A login name and a password... those two things get you in. And a visible name - the one that will show up when you post in the forums or create content. That's it. email, login, password, and visible name. No other information is required to register. Can you provide more? Yes. The social aspect of both Joomla and Kunena forums communities has large profile setting options that you CAN provide. But doing so has no impact on your registration. Provide as much or little as you want.

In fact, this particular point is SO important to me that I went to the developer of the extension because before this current patch; the default registration panel had only a binary option for gender: male or female. And I asked him to account for it being 2021 and it being time for that question not to have binary answers AND for it not to matter in how we treat site users. He included a third option (not specified) to the form.

Also, the site. All of it. Is https. The old site? The one you are claiming is better. THAT has been http for a few years now, because it was set up on an earlier google virtual machine that didn't have systems in place for me to make it secure. That too is one of the reasons for the new site.

So... you can see why I might be upset when you claim these things. You are welcome to your opinion. It isn't accurate to the facts.

I'm sorry to hear you don't like the graphics in the carousels. There ARE other systems in place to sort/find the stories you are looking for... but no, we won't be going back to table layouts. I'm not even certain that any current extensions exist that would allow us to do so... unless, of course, you are offering to code them for us?

"Also, the site. All of it.

"Also, the site. All of it. Is https. The old site? The one you are claiming is better. THAT has been http for a few years now, because it was set up on an earlier google virtual machine that didn't have systems in place for me to make it secure. That too is one of the reasons for the new site."

I was referring to the new forums now the previous forums just now regarding specifically the https login issue. When I said the previous forums I had logged into and posted before I meant the original or the first. After all, the current revision is a 2nd revision with the original being hosted by the creator of Jen Stevens If I remember correctly.

Whateley timeline

We've been running on a Google VM since 2015, when I set up the previous Joomla site/Kunena forums. 2012-2015 the HTML / FUD forums were hosted by Erin, Piper and company. During this period, I redesigned the HTML site to organize things into lists/tables (before that, every story had a Title line, a brief description, and then a set of links for the parts of the story). From 2007-2011 The HTML/FUD forums site was created and hosted by Bob Arnold with admin support from Warren and later Diane Castle. From 2004-2007, when the universe was first getting going; we were posting stories to Sapphire's Place.

As to your experiencing 'http' with the new site... I don't know what to tell you. This is something you get a certificate for the SERVER for ... not for a page or one site. If you are seeing http on the site, it means you are loading something that's not on our server in doing so. That shouldn't be happening and I can't reproduce it... so you understand why I'm questioning your observation. Also, you're the only person who has said this.

Yeah it was at the time from

Yeah it was at the time from 2007-2011(after Sapphire Place, explains how "Big Idea" was exclusive for a while) when I was posting but when things shifted at one point for the new login and my stuff didn't properly switch over it had likely become Google VM as you said there wasn't https when setting up a new ID.